Sorcerer
Member
Need to kill that controller. Its terrible. Mine had one stick too loose, one too tight. Then the usb port fell into the controller. I barely even used it.
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Retro VGS, cartridge-based retro game console now on IndieGoGo
- Thread starter Dreamwriter
- Start date
Need to kill that controller. Its terrible. Mine had one stick too loose, one too tight. Then the usb port fell into the controller. I barely even used it.
RPGCrazied
Member
The price was the main killer for me. Also, I want exclusives. I don't want something to come out on platforms I already have, then come out on this in cart form. No reason to buy the system then.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Weird how this didn't work out. I know it's possible to make bug-free campaigns. You start by start by saying "This is going to be bug-free" and then everything works out forever.
This is good news. Let's give them a break so they can reflect on why the crowdfunding campaign failed, and we'll see what they will get up to. One thing to give them is that they are full of energy and don't give up easily. I'm sure they will manage to get their product right eventually.
Sectorseven
Member
How are they going to lower the price while maintaining all most of the features?
stan423321
Member
Always offline: check.
No wireless: check.
Jaguar shell: check.
Plays games: we skip that one.
NoFaceNico
Member
It's very telling that their Facebook post has about five times as many likes right now than most of the propaganda they've been spewing out during the campaign. It shows that they probably do still have fans out there who are now satisfied that RVGS team is coming back down to reality.
The ideas they had for this console would never work and their goal was unattainable. Their insistence that other projects "didn't have a prototype" was remarkably tone deaf and it's about time they learned that they need one, no excuses.
The ideas they had for this console would never work and their goal was unattainable. Their insistence that other projects "didn't have a prototype" was remarkably tone deaf and it's about time they learned that they need one, no excuses.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
According to that last post it sounds like they finally realized a lot of the issues with the IGG campaign and RVGS. Their hardware guy was so in over his head with this project he was practically standing at the bottom of the Marianas trench. If they allowed Kevtris full control over the entire system design, along with John working side by side, they MIGHT have been able to build the fully functional console of their dreams.
My biggest issue with this FB post is the complete lack of an apology. Mike shitposted and belittled a huge section of the retro gaming community. Without an apology, IMO a large amount of the community will not back Mike's future RVGS attempt.
Mike, this latest FB post was a good start, but you MUST apologize for your shitposts. All you have to say is how frustrated you were and how you made mistakes in the heat of the moment. We know you are a passionate retro gamer, we completely understand. Rebuild your friendships, get the community involved with attempt #2, and your chances of this being an overwhelming success will be almost guaranteed.
My biggest issue with this FB post is the complete lack of an apology. Mike shitposted and belittled a huge section of the retro gaming community. Without an apology, IMO a large amount of the community will not back Mike's future RVGS attempt.
Mike, this latest FB post was a good start, but you MUST apologize for your shitposts. All you have to say is how frustrated you were and how you made mistakes in the heat of the moment. We know you are a passionate retro gamer, we completely understand. Rebuild your friendships, get the community involved with attempt #2, and your chances of this being an overwhelming success will be almost guaranteed.
Bar81
Member
Wow. You're out of your mind if you think that the guy knows how to apologize or it would make any difference at this point. He has zero ethics and has proven that he'll lie and cheat if it's in his best interest. I wouldn't give that scumbag a red cent.
That is sadly the best news that has come out of this entire campaign.
They need to be upfront and honest. Finalize the specs and show games running on a real device that gives a real impression of what the actual product will be. No more fake prototypes, no deceiving smoke and mirrors-type setups. The people who are interested and watching will see right through any BS in a second. The criticism will always be swift, harsh and reverberate throughout the gaming communities.
I am hoping that the new hardware people help steer this in the right direction and can keep it at a reasonable price. Reasonable varies for each person but most of us agree that it's not $400 shipped. I think they made the mistake of seeing what people are willing to shell out hundreds of dollars on and rationalized that the price bump would be okay. It's not okay because this new thing doesn't have the large, high-quality library to support the high asking price of an Analogue NT or consolized MVS.
I echo the sentiments that they need to ditch the questionable controller with a history of poor quality. Wireless wasn't its only major problem. There are a number of third-party wired controllers out there with fantastic reviews. I'm not sure why they went with the one that's verified crap and puts into question the value of the system. Whether they go for a modern or retro pad, there are good options out there just by taking a glance at what's on Amazon.
I agree he needs to apologize and then take further steps to make sure this doesn't happen again. I think some priority must be given into obtaining one or two people to help with PR, social media, marketing and branding. PR/social media would be the highly needed idiot filter to prevent any more of the enormous blunders of the last couple of weeks. Before a new Facebook statement is made or a video is put out, PR would be a gatekeeper that evaluates the content of any company message, cut out Mike and Co.'s petty garbage and put out an actual good message that people want to see. Branding would help craft an appealing-looking, non-generic product with a clear statement of what it is and for whom. I said it before: "Retro" is now a very generic term tied to an ongoing pop culture fad tied to the '80s and '90s, it's not an appropriate company or product name. Marketing would reach out and generate actual interest among target groups and news outlets.
My guess is Kevtris. He posted sometime ago that he wasn't permanently out, money is money if Mike and Co still wants to do things right, etc.
They need to be upfront and honest. Finalize the specs and show games running on a real device that gives a real impression of what the actual product will be. No more fake prototypes, no deceiving smoke and mirrors-type setups. The people who are interested and watching will see right through any BS in a second. The criticism will always be swift, harsh and reverberate throughout the gaming communities.
I am hoping that the new hardware people help steer this in the right direction and can keep it at a reasonable price. Reasonable varies for each person but most of us agree that it's not $400 shipped. I think they made the mistake of seeing what people are willing to shell out hundreds of dollars on and rationalized that the price bump would be okay. It's not okay because this new thing doesn't have the large, high-quality library to support the high asking price of an Analogue NT or consolized MVS.
I echo the sentiments that they need to ditch the questionable controller with a history of poor quality. Wireless wasn't its only major problem. There are a number of third-party wired controllers out there with fantastic reviews. I'm not sure why they went with the one that's verified crap and puts into question the value of the system. Whether they go for a modern or retro pad, there are good options out there just by taking a glance at what's on Amazon.
I agree he needs to apologize and then take further steps to make sure this doesn't happen again. I think some priority must be given into obtaining one or two people to help with PR, social media, marketing and branding. PR/social media would be the highly needed idiot filter to prevent any more of the enormous blunders of the last couple of weeks. Before a new Facebook statement is made or a video is put out, PR would be a gatekeeper that evaluates the content of any company message, cut out Mike and Co.'s petty garbage and put out an actual good message that people want to see. Branding would help craft an appealing-looking, non-generic product with a clear statement of what it is and for whom. I said it before: "Retro" is now a very generic term tied to an ongoing pop culture fad tied to the '80s and '90s, it's not an appropriate company or product name. Marketing would reach out and generate actual interest among target groups and news outlets.
My guess is Kevtris. He posted sometime ago that he wasn't permanently out, money is money if Mike and Co still wants to do things right, etc.
Dreamwriter
Member
I've also seen a post somewhere by a hardware guy who claimed to have been a part of the team from the beginning, who left it like a year ago, who was complaining that they weren't mentioning him or other people at all.
Dreamwriter
Member
Here's what I think they should do: somehow get the price down to $250. Lower their goal to something like $900,000, with stretch goals above that. Build a working prototype, since there are people who don't trust them now (a true prototype, no need for a perfectly designed, stuffed and manufactured expensive PC board). And hire a professional team to run the Kickstarter. Oh yeah, and put it on Kickstarter.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Amazing to watch something crash and burn so quickly, this giant glowing ball of hubris, ego, and straight up lies. And for what? A nostalgic fetish machine? A desperate attempt to recreate your past, to play games on a system you don't really need?
Sorcerer
Member
Originally Posted by monkeymagic84:
"I echo the sentiments that they need to ditch the questionable controller with a history of poor quality. Wireless wasn't its only major problem. There are a number of third-party wired controllers out there with fantastic reviews. I'm not sure why they went with the one that's verified crap and puts into question the value of the system. Whether they go for a modern or retro pad, there are good options out there just by taking a glance at what's on Amazon."
There is probably a warehouse full of these crappy controllers no one wants. Mike probably got a bulk deal of these things really cheap. Probably really easy to rebrand them and add wired usb. (It recharged through usb as a wireless controller.)
Mike says they are or did put these controllers through weeks of torture testing and I find that hard to believe that he would report back that they are great or even good controllers.
"I echo the sentiments that they need to ditch the questionable controller with a history of poor quality. Wireless wasn't its only major problem. There are a number of third-party wired controllers out there with fantastic reviews. I'm not sure why they went with the one that's verified crap and puts into question the value of the system. Whether they go for a modern or retro pad, there are good options out there just by taking a glance at what's on Amazon."
There is probably a warehouse full of these crappy controllers no one wants. Mike probably got a bulk deal of these things really cheap. Probably really easy to rebrand them and add wired usb. (It recharged through usb as a wireless controller.)
Mike says they are or did put these controllers through weeks of torture testing and I find that hard to believe that he would report back that they are great or even good controllers.
NoFaceNico
Member
I think for once we actually agree on something! Except for the price point. It still needs to be lower. It'll be tough but if they can get off their xenophobic "Made in the USA" tangent and decide to build the components in China, it would benefit the console immensely. Also, get rid of that controller. Make it an optional extra if people want it that badly. Get the base model RVGS as low cost as possible. The price needs to be at $150-180 to reclaim the early fan base they had.
A working prototype that does the things a game console should do is a no brainer.
The goal needs to be realistic and I see you chose the same amount used by a certain other Kickstarter console.
Handing the Kickstarter management to a professional marketing team could reel in a huge amount of backers, I was discussing this with someone at AtariAge last night. That's how these big Kickstarters do it. It does sacrifice a bit of the amount raised, but will give you a lot more funds to play with in the end. It can also get a lot of big media exposure which the Indiegogo campaign was completely incapable of generating. Unfortunately, I don't think Mike would do this. Doesn't he have a degree in marketing? I don't know if that's true but I'm sure he would see getting a marketing team as a slap in the face to his style of management and an unnecessary bite into his funds raised.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Now that's more like it!
I'm glad they finally saw what most of us saw much earlier on, and have (maybe) gotten people like Kevtris back on board (going by the wording). They're doing what has to be done, and if they can issue out a few apologies to those whom they may've burned bridges with, over time all of that can heal and they'll be able to come back with a product people actually want.
Can't wait to see what the revised version of the system will be like.
Problem is, they'd be losing a lot of money at that price. Even Kevtris's set-up was assumed by him to run around the $250 range, and that's without a shell casing, or a controller. Maybe over the next few months prices for FPGAs capable of hosting the sort of power and core capacity needed for, say, Neo-Geo or Saturn level 2D/3D games will come down in price, but that's a wait-and-see.
And these guy's are a Microsoft or Sony; they can't afford to take such big losses on each system sold b/c they're already selling to a potentially smaller base than either of them. Think something more like 1/3-1/2 of Wii U's audience for a better picture of the potential market size for a system like this, at this point in time anyhow. $70-$100 lost per unit sold is up there with what Sony lost on early PS3s, and you see how well that went for them.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
I agree. I'm really glad Mike apparently has actually listened to the feedback almost everyone here has passed along-bring some hardware people in(Kevtris?), retool the campaign, get a prototype up and running(gotta show games running on it guys) and bringing the price waaay down to a more affordable $150-$250 tops. Do not go anywhere $300 Mike! I actually think if you can get the price to between $150-$200 and go on Kickstarter(please DO NOT USE INDIEGOGO the next time out) you'll blow through to your goal in no time.
There are some folks who are naysayers but most of us WANTED to back you. It sounds like you've listened to our feedback and that's a good thing.
Can't wait for the RetroVGS KICKSTARTER campaign!
Good luck Mike, you'll have a backer!
OrbitalBeard
Member
Good that they finally pulled the plug.
If they can provide a working prototype and are able to get the price down to $150, they may have a shot. Maybe. Possibly. Probably not, honestly, but you never know. The funding goal will definitely need to be considerably less, like, under a million.
If they can provide a working prototype and are able to get the price down to $150, they may have a shot. Maybe. Possibly. Probably not, honestly, but you never know. The funding goal will definitely need to be considerably less, like, under a million.
Risible
Member
I would be willing to bet, considering the bullshit they've been spewing, that this is also bullshit.
Risible
Member
Nope. It became pretty obvious that these guys thought this was going to be their meal-ticket. It was all about the benjamins IMO.
NoFaceNico
Member
Very true statement there. It's amazing how they just walked so confidently into all of this with such a warped sense of entitlement. Going on indiegogo to build an empire just because you found some Atari tooling and drew a console on the back of a napkin? They need to work with other people in the industry and get a reality check.
NoFaceNico
Member
*sigh* .... Thanks for the heads up, guys.
New thread alert: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1118362
Geez, you'd think the RVGS supporters were trying to avoid us or something.
New thread alert: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1118362
Geez, you'd think the RVGS supporters were trying to avoid us or something.
pots and pans
Member
In one of the interviews with Mike Kennedy, he mentioned that they would be making somewhere around $70-90 on each console at the IndieGoGo campaign price. They could slash $50 off the price right now and still make a profit.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the revised version of this thing scrap the FPGA completely. That's what they keep pointing to for the bulk of the cost. If not.... well, I'm not a tech guy but I'm not sure what else they could do to get the price down. I don't see any way this thing ever launches at $200 or less, no matter what they change. I could be wrong, but the way Mike has recently talked about his original target of $150-180 being impossible doesn't instill much faith.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
If they scrap the FPGA then it'll just be an Android box. No one wants another Ouya. The original appeal of Retro VGS was to play new homebrew for old systems on cycle-accurate emulators via FPGA hardware emulation. Or at least, that should have been the original goal imho, or part of the original goal.
Going carts-only was a mistake; the revised version needs to include a digital marketplace, particularly for the indies that can't cover the costs of carts. Native support for engines like Unity or Game Maker isn't necessary; throwing in the hardware to include support for them kind of defeats the purpose on an idealistic sense and increases the cost, for not much of a benefit.
They should take the time to make the conversion process as painless as possible, or license out ports of indie games for their platform, kind of like how Sega did in-house ports of 3rd-party games on Genesis a lot in the early years (different reasons, but same general concept).
Or, if they want, develop some SDKs that make the transition as seamless as possible, or an add-on cart for hardware to better/more easily host bigger indie games made with modern PC and mobile architectures in mind, in case they still want those games on their platform but for w/e reason, the devs can't handle the cost and time for conversion to legit older platforms.
In any case they sky's the limit now that they've killed this dying mule of an IGG campaign and seem to want to make amends with lost supporters in time for their re-launch later down the road.
The original concept is stupid and I'm glad it's dead. The idea to play homebrew games designed for old consoles but in a new shell for a new "old" console is ridiculous. Why spend money to make cartridges for both the original console and the new old console? They realised the concept was flawed and rightfully switched to a model with cartridge adapters. Homebrew for old consoles would be made in old cartridges, and played both on the old console and the new "old" console. It's the Retron5 but with an FPGA instead of Android emulation, and a more interesting concept in that regard.
But then they also wanted to make a Ouya with cartridges. While this concept could be interesting, some people could want a copy of their favourite indie game in a cartridge form, they made the mistake of merging the two concepts together, inflating prices and confusing the audience interested in each of the original concept.
But then they also wanted to make a Ouya with cartridges. While this concept could be interesting, some people could want a copy of their favourite indie game in a cartridge form, they made the mistake of merging the two concepts together, inflating prices and confusing the audience interested in each of the original concept.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Misguided nostalgia exploitation gone horribly wrong.
watch nofacenico's video
NoFaceNico
Member
haha, thanks guys! I really mean that, there's no better feeling than knowing people enjoyed a video you worked hard on.
Also, I will be working on another video about the RVGS. Everyone's doing a "post-mortem video" with a list of what went wrong, but I want to do something different.
My video is going to look at the RVGS fans. It will also include an interesting topic I want to cover: retro-indie games are a modern incarnation of games that existed in the classic era, but is Mike Kennedy an incarnation of someone who existed in the classic era? Stay turned and find out!!
It'll probably be up by the weekend. I'm working on another non-RVGS related video because I don't want this to be called "RVGS month" on my channel. This other video will be a review looking at a piece of gaming hardware that was brought to life on Kickstarter.
Vipershark
Member
Your incorrect opinion disgusts me.
In what world putting NES code in a RetroVGS cartridge to be only played in a RetroVGS is a better idea than putting NES code in a NES cartridge to be played in anything NES-compatible, including the RetroVGS with an adapter?
There is no economic reason for people developing on legacy hardware to make RetroVGS cartridges.
Friend of Sonic
Member
Hahahaha, OMG. I can't wait.
Vipershark
Member
Maybe not, but the option to do so certainly doesn't hurt, especially if the possibility to use the VGS' analog sticks or USB ports, etc in NES games is realized.
If you can get someone to manufacture NES carts that's cool but if somehow you can't, VGS carts are the next best option.
Kawika
Member
The market for these new games on old hardware is slim. There is a good chance that if someone wants to play that sort of thing they already have the old hardware.
I feel a sense of relief now that this project is over (for now). I have never in my life been so on board with something to 'do not want' in such a short period of time. Its a shame because some of the ideas were good but ultimately their poorly managed funding campaign really shed the light and helped me snap back to reality. Now thinking it over, I own almost every old console that I care to play on and some of which I have more than one.
I will admit, part of me wanted the the RVGS as an all in one device, similar to the Retron5 but without the emulation. I even thought, sure I would buy Shovel Knight or RCR again. I keep all my consoles in their own boxes so when I want to play one there is a bit of go here, get that, plug this in etc. Kevtris might still deliver on that dream but I at this point the price would have to be right and it would have to include Genesis and Snes which I believe it currently doesn't.
Kawika
Member
Kevtris posted the history of his own FPGA. I didn't know if it was worth making a OT so I thought since the FPGA was the nail in the coffin of the Retro VGS I'd post it in the various dead threads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEfVxeoBaUk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEfVxeoBaUk
Huh, was surprised to see an updated from this. Didn't think I would still even get them if they were posted.
First part is just reminding people to get refunds, since they still haven't found a way to end the campaign early. The last half has some information on their future plans:
I don't know that I'd be interested enough to back a reworked version, but I am curious enough to keep an eye on it.
First part is just reminding people to get refunds, since they still haven't found a way to end the campaign early. The last half has some information on their future plans:
RVGS Campaign Update said:
I don't know that I'd be interested enough to back a reworked version, but I am curious enough to keep an eye on it.
NoFaceNico
Member
I can't wait to see what they come up with next. I'm looking forward to it!
Dreamwriter
Member
I'm interested to see what they come up with, but two of the reasons I trusted them the first time was their engineer and Kevtris, both of whom aren't involved anymore.
wondermega
Member
Looks like they have partnered with Coleco and rebranded as the "Coleco Chameleon"
http://www.retrovgs.com/press.html
"Trabuco Canyon, CA (PR) December 17, 2015 Video-game industry pioneer COLECO re-enters the market, partnering with Retro Video Game Systems, Inc., to introduce a new, modern-day video-game system called the COLECO Chameleon.
COLECO Chameleon is a versatile new video-game system that serves as a modern day take on the classic game console and will accurately play classic games from the past. The COLECO Chameleon also has the ability play brand-new games in the 8-, 16- and 32-bit styles, a growing and popular genre in todays game scape.
Chris Cardillo, a partner in COLECO said, "Mark [Thomann] and I are excited to work hand-in-hand with Retro Video Game Systems, Inc. in the launch of the COLECO Chameleon. It's ironic that a new retro video-game system would actually revolutionize and revitalize the COLECO brand."
And, for the first time in nearly 20 years, the COLECO Chameleon will once again play brand new games on long-lasting, durable cartridges that can be played, traded, and collected for a lifetime. And all game cartridges will include high quality, plastic clamshell cases with illustrated instruction manuals and game developer liner notes.
Retro Video Game Systems, Inc. President Mike Kennedy adds, The COLECO Chameleon is a love-letter to all the classic cartridge based gaming systems that came before it and we love the fact it will succeed COLECOs successful Telstar and Colecovision product lines. It will take gamers and their families back to a simpler time where games were all about great gameplay and fun factor.
The COLECO Chameleon will launch in early 2016 and will also be demonstrated at Toy Fair New York 2016, February 13-16."
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
I don't know man, all of this sounds soo strange and weird and unappealing, and I'm even the potential audience.
Dreamwriter
Member
Naw, they have Kickstarter in their new cover photo, so still crowdfunded.
Oh. So no improvement then.
Still can't wait to see how they get developers to ship entirely bug free games.