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[Dreamwriter]

hilarious bit is that the most damning critic is someone with more experience than these guys lol

Realize that the Retro VGS's hardware designer has worked for Atari, Activision, Iguana Entertainment, and Sony. He has years experience reverse engineering game consoles and creating dev kits for them, he helped develop the system software for the PS3, and has taught classes on game development. Another guy there has developed software and games for Atari, Activision, Apple, Sega, Nintendo, EA, 3DO, Tengen, and Big Fish. These guys have a ton of experience.

For those saying Kevtris is offering what we all always wanted, you must not have read the previous thread, where lots of people were complaining about the FPGA, saying it should be removed to save money, that very few indie developers write games for old systems, maybe make it an optional add-on, that the ARM CPU better not be just for show. But here Kevtris is offering a system that is *only* built around an FPGA, and only for 8-bit systems. And note, he's talking about charging $200-$250 for it. So if just the FPGA half of the console is $200, it makes sense that the full Retro VGS with ARM CPU, extra RAM, and controller, would be pricier. I agree that $300-350 is pricey for something like this, but Kevtris' proposal shows that the price isn't unrealistic.

 

[LewieP]

I knocked out some detailed thoughts here.

Don't give these clowns any of your money.

 

[Vipershark]

For those saying Kevtris is offering what we all always wanted, you must not have read the previous thread, where lots of people were complaining about the FPGA, saying it should be removed to save money, that very few indie developers write games for old systems, maybe make it an optional add-on, that the ARM CPU better not be just for show. But here Kevtris is offering a system that is *only* built around an FPGA, and only for 8-bit systems. And note, he's talking about charging $200-$250 for it. So if just the FPGA half of the console is $200, it makes sense that the full Retro VGS with ARM CPU, extra RAM, and controller, would be pricier. I agree that $300-350 is pricey for something like this, but Kevtris' proposal shows that the price isn't unrealistic.

I personally feel like the inclusion of the ARM CPU at all is pretty much idiotic. I understand the appeal of playing games you like on cartridges but a system dedicated to "retro styled" games is pretty dumb, to say the least. (Because if you remove the FPGA, that's all that's left.) I don't want some dumb tablet shoved into a box or Ouya 2 or underpowered PC specifically to play the games I already own on Steam, cartridges or not.
Especially considering that "retro-styled" is nothing but a buzzword and the games themselves follow no particular architecture requirements (Shovel Knight might look like an NES game but isn't possible on an NES, for example), a console dedicated to playing those games is, putting it lightly, stupid.

I feel like the people complaining that the FPGA should be removed in favor or the ARM are extremely misguided because the actual "magic" of this system comes from the FPGA.

The ability to play your old games as well as code new ones on "native" hardware was always the main draw for the VGS, along with Mike's proposals about propositioning companies to rerelease and/or create sequels to old IP.
The ARM and ability to play not-actually-retro games with some cartridges is more of a tacked-on feature at best.

On that note, the people saying Kevtris' system is the superior choice are correct. If anything, it should be the ARM that's the add-on, not the FPGA.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I knocked out some detailed thoughts here.

Don't give these clowns any of your money.

Maybe you should do more research before knocking out those thoughts, especially when posting to a site called "savy gamer" Two specific things in your thoughts that are mistaken. First: "Let’s put to one side that I’d probably be using Unity or Game Maker, which Retro VGS has no mention of native support for" - that's the entire reason for the switch to the high priced system, so they could make a system powerful enough to run games written in engines like Unity and Game Maker. They've specifically mentioned that they will have Unity support.

And "I’d also raise the serious question over whether they actually have the rights to sell a console in the shell of an Atari Jaguar... I see no evidence that they’ve done their due diligence here, owning the molds is not the same as having permission to use them to manufacture and sell a console using them." - they have talked about how the molds came with documentation from Atari giving the owner full rights to the design, as well as actually including the full design specifications used to create them in the first place. And they aren't the first company to manufacture and sell electronics using the molds, and that company got some press on gaming sites for doing so, so if Atari didn't sue then they won't sue now.

 

[gundalf]

They've specifically mentioned that they will have Unity support.

Did they really said that in front of people? Because this can only work via Android which makes this just another OUYA for crying out loud!

 

[Vipershark]

Mike has specifically mentioned Unity support and wanting Game Maker support included as well.
I don't have a source for that at the moment but I can confirm that it was brought up.

 

[panda-zebra]

They've specifically mentioned that they will have Unity support.

If it's not mentioned in the campaign, my advice is to assume nothing. For instance, there are posts of theirs on GAF 3 weeks old, stating that RVGS will be able to play games for classic systems - and that's only possible with the $3.8m stretch goal.

If it's not explicitly mentioned in the campaign, there's no accountability.

 

[TimmiT]

Jeez, the Ouya seems like a better console than what this would turn out to be. By the way

What's in this thing that makes it so expensive?
The Retro VGS is build around a combination of an ARM CPU and an FPGA. The chips were chosen to be powerful enough to run modern games - while a game like Shovel Knight might look like an NES game running on a SNES, it's actually a full PC/modern console game that requires a significant amount of power. The Retro VGS team wants developers to be able to use their game engine of choice to make games for it, including big ones like Unity. Note, it's still supposed to be for retro-style games, so don't expect to see Call of Duty graphics on there.

How does this explain why it's so expensive? There aren't even any details on the hardware. It kinda sounds like it'd be about as powerful as Ouya/Fire TV/PlayStation TV etc. but would be six times as expensive.

This looks like either a scam or like something made by people who haven't done enough research about making this thing.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

This thing hasn't moved since yesterday.

Good luck with the 2 million.

I wonder if people are burned out on gimmick consoles.

 

[emb]

They got what, 20k yesterday?

If that keeps up for another 44 days (it won't, first couple of days are usually the strongest) then they'd still have less than 1 million.

 

[outunderthestars]

This thing hasn't moved since yesterday.

Good luck with the 2 million.

I wonder if people are burned out on gimmick consoles.

I think the vast majority of consumers have no interest in playing ANY of the games listed. Of thy niche audience that does, most don't care about physical media to the extent required to spend $350 +$40-$60 for games. Of the niche of that niche that is willing to pay it, they don't like certain aspects of the system, the campaign, or the organizers.

The niche, of the niche, of the niche that is left is nowhere close to large enough to support the campaign.

 

[LewieP]

Maybe you should do more research before knocking out those thoughts, especially when posting to a site called "savy gamer" Two specific things in your thoughts that are mistaken. First: "Let’s put to one side that I’d probably be using Unity or Game Maker, which Retro VGS has no mention of native support for" - that's the entire reason for the switch to the high priced system, so they could make a system powerful enough to run games written in engines like Unity and Game Maker. They've specifically mentioned that they will have Unity support.

And "I’d also raise the serious question over whether they actually have the rights to sell a console in the shell of an Atari Jaguar... I see no evidence that they’ve done their due diligence here, owning the molds is not the same as having permission to use them to manufacture and sell a console using them." - they have talked about how the molds came with documentation from Atari giving the owner full rights to the design, as well as actually including the full design specifications used to create them in the first place. And they aren't the first company to manufacture and sell electronics using the molds, and that company got some press on gaming sites for doing so, so if Atari didn't sue then they won't sue now.

Please feel free to highlight where on their official website or on the indiegogo campaign they have mentioned the things you have discussed.

They have mentioned that they have Unity support? Have Unity verified these claims, or are you taking their statement face value? They are also claiming to have games in the pipeline for their platform that they in fact do not. Could it possibly be that they are misleading people in the hope that it will encourage them to contribute funds to the indigogo?

I am yet to see these claims that they in fact have the rights to use the Jaguar molds as they plan to. As I said in the article, they are not presenting any evidence or claims to that effect on the Indiegogo nor their website. I wonder why they haven't included this crucial information.

You're suggesting I've not done enough research. I'd suggest that perhaps you are not effectively scrutinizing the things someone is saying when they want your money.

 

[NormalFish]

Realize that the Retro VGS's hardware designer has worked for Atari, Activision, Iguana Entertainment, and Sony. He has years experience reverse engineering game consoles and creating dev kits for them, he helped develop the system software for the PS3, and has taught classes on game development. Another guy there has developed software and games for Atari, Activision, Apple, Sega, Nintendo, EA, 3DO, Tengen, and Big Fish. These guys have a ton of experience.

Judging by the way this campaign has developed, their credentials evidently haven't transferred to this experience. Working in a large hardware team to meet a specific preordained goal is worlds apart from developing your own project from the ground up. Something kevtris has done, and afaik these guys have not.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

I just don't see any good hook for consumers here. I could see a cheap ($99 or less) 2D game system with strong exclusives and a cool hardware or controller gimmick doing well. I could also see an ultimate emulation FPGA system at a somewhat higher price doing well among a small niche of actual retro collectors and fans who want to play their existing collection of games. Their current approach seems like a horrible compromise of both goals with a higher price, weak emulation, and no good exclusives.

 

[rbenchley]

Realize that the Retro VGS's hardware designer has worked for Atari, Activision, Iguana Entertainment, and Sony. He has years experience reverse engineering game consoles and creating dev kits for them, he helped develop the system software for the PS3, and has taught classes on game development. Another guy there has developed software and games for Atari, Activision, Apple, Sega, Nintendo, EA, 3DO, Tengen, and Big Fish. These guys have a ton of experience.

that very few indie developers write games for old systems, maybe make it an optional add-on, that the ARM CPU better not be just for show. But here Kevtris is offering a system that is *only* built around an FPGA, and only for 8-bit systems. And note, he's talking about charging $200-$250 for it. So if just the FPGA half of the console is $200, it makes sense that the full Retro VGS For those saying Kevtris is offering what we all always wanted, you must not have read the previous thread, where lots of people were complaining about the FPGA, saying it should be removed to save money,with ARM CPU, extra RAM, and controller, would be pricier. I agree that $300-350 is pricey for something like this, but Kevtris' proposal shows that the price isn't unrealistic.

They might have a ton of experience, but you know what they don't have? A working hardware prototype. Also, people turned on the concept of the FPGA because the RetroVGS team listed that as the reason that the cost was ballooning from $150 - $200 all the way up to $400.

On the other hand, Kevtris has shown his work (the prototype set him back $1,200 as opposed to the $100,000 the RetroVGS team has earmarked for their vaporware board) and has been very clear what the project would be, in terms of scale, features, needed parts and what the costs would be for backers. Basically, he's outlined what people originally thought they were getting with the RetroVGS.

 

[LewieP]

Where can I find more about Kevtris' system?

 

[Dreamwriter]

If it's not mentioned in the campaign, my advice is to assume nothing. For instance, there are posts of theirs on GAF 3 weeks old, stating that RVGS will be able to play games for classic systems - and that's only possible with the $3.8m stretch goal.

You are misreading the campaign - it doesn't say the stretch goal is to include an FPGA that can recreate classic system cores, it's to use a better one, capable of using more complicated cores.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

When you spend more time pitching the console shell color and have literally only a potato camera photo of the controller to demonstrate a "prototype", then I'm really starting to think this product is way behind what they were pitching.

Yeah that's the worst part. They have nothing. No hardware. No prototype. Everything they have shown so far is nothing but smoke and mirrors.

Furthermore, losing Kevtris (who sounds like a brilliant hardware engineer) as an unofficial team member has put them even further behind.

 

[dancrane212]

They posted more about Kevtris.

RETRO VGS We were going to contract with Kevin and license his cores at $10K/Core, his asking price. Plus we were going to help fund his development of the 16 bit cores. Then he throws US under the bus. He has a prototype board, we have the even more expensve part of the process in hand the tooling. We would have been happy to work with him, but instead, he wants to attempt to compete with our product with an expensive $200-$250 bare board that won't do half of what the RETRO VGS would do.
Like · Reply · 47 minutes ago · Edited

RETRO VGS When he actually does some homework on what it would take to "consumerize" his product and put his bare board into a console shell, add a controller and pack-in game, and incorporate the ARM and both the digital and analog output, go through the regulatory process, etc. he will find out he can't do it for any for any less than we can. I guarantee you all that!
Like · Reply · 46 minutes ago · Edited

RETRO VGS The main focus of RETRO VGS isn't to play old games but these new retro games being made today, on cartridges. His product is just another way to emulate like dozens of products before it. And with the FPGA it won't compete in any way, shape or form with the countless other software emulated systems out there. His is a failed model from the start and it's a shame he couldn't combine his efforts with our product and make a real compelling product that would do something unlike any other system on the market.
Like · Reply · 58 minutes ago

RETRO VGS And, he isn't the only game in town when it comes to FPGA core development.
Like · Reply · 48 minutes ago

Piko (was partnering with Retro for Super Noah's Ark 3D) on AtariAge seemed to post far more scathing comments yet they still wanted to work with him and bring more of his games over. Seemed like Kevtris just posted his thoughts on the situation after it looked like he had been removed from the project.

Not something worth removing him from the campaign and getting this, publicly, argumentative over with.

 

[N.A]

RETRO VGS The main focus of RETRO VGS isn't to play old games but these new retro games being made today, on cartridges. His product is just another way to emulate like dozens of products before it. And with the FPGA it won't compete in any way, shape or form with the countless other software emulated systems out there. His is a failed model from the start and it's a shame he couldn't combine his efforts with our product and make a real compelling product that would do something unlike any other system on the market.
Like · Reply · 58 minutes ago

I'd pay $300 for a system that could play NES/SNES/SMS/Mega Drive carts natively without emulation with 100% accuracy through HDMI.

Hell, RGB modded consoles + a framemeister RGB would cost much more than that.

 

[Vamphuntr]

They posted more about Kevtris.









Piko (was partnering with Retro for Super Noah's Ark 3D) on AtariAge seemed to post far more scathing comments yet they still wanted to work with him and bring more of his games over. Seemed like Kevtris just posted his thoughts on the situation after it looked like he had been removed from the project.

Not something worth removing him from the campaign and getting this, publicly, argumentative over with.

They are in no position to give lessons about how to "consumerize" hardware seeing their indiegogo is a big flop and they don't even have a prototype to show.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I am still pretty disappointed to see this all turn out this way. I expected it to get funded, at least. I wonder if it would have done better on Kickstarter or if the price just kills it. Curious to see where they go after the funding fails (or they are ready to admit it's not going to reach their goal and just kill it). I assume they've sunk a good chunk of their own change into this already, so it has to be a rough situation for them.

 

[Kawika]

When I first heard about this system I thought, hmm, why would I want that? But after a while I thought sure it would be kind of neat to have Carts of Retro-style indie games that I love. Mike has been nothing but awesome when I have interacted with him and the dude really does seem like he is coming at this from a good place.

That said, I doubt his intentions are to mislead the audience. I am giving him the benefit of a doubt that his dream of this system is perhaps beyond the scope of his original plan. I think moving the goal line of this system throughout development really did hurt the project.

I didn't understand the benefit of the FPGA with regard to his system. I could see an arm based system that uses carts to be something worth while. I could also see a high quality FPGA system being ideal for retro gamers that don't necessarily want to have 5+ console under their tv either. To marry the two ideas makes sense IF the price is right.

After reading what Kevtris had to say, I came back to my default position of, Why do I want a console that plays carts of new games. What I really want is another way to play retro games without worrying about hooking up everything to a SD tv, RGB modding them, PVM/BVM Monitors, having them all hooked up to my XRGB etc etc.

I have no idea what the RVGS team wants to do going forward but I think they might have more success making a cart based system based on the original pitch. Put that at a small price point. If successful, most people would be okay with buying a RVGS Rev2 with the FGPA support.

Side note, as someone who has Kevtris' HDMI NES I am starting to not care about playing on my PVM like I used to. I find myself thinking. I really wish I had these options with my PS1 and SNES (I guess I do with an XRGB).

Anyway, if Kevtris actually makes that FGPA system and his cores do work as advertised. It would clear up a lot of space for me. I wouldn't even be opposed to a SD card based system either. For those of us who want to collect old games we will continue to do so. But people who casually want to have a retro based system kind of drive up the prices of popular carts which can be a bad thing to those of us who are rebuilding their collections. Also, after using a Retron5 I am very very wary of putting my carts into anything that wasn't officially made by the console mfgs.

 

[emb]

RETRO VGS The main focus of RETRO VGS isn't to play old games but these new retro games being made today, on cartridges. His product is just another way to emulate like dozens of products before it. And with the FPGA it won't compete in any way, shape or form with the countless other software emulated systems out there. His is a failed model from the start and it's a shame he couldn't combine his efforts with our product and make a real compelling product that would do something unlike any other system on the market.
Like · Reply · 58 minutes ago

I agree with the sentiment that an emulation box isn't exciting (hardware, software, whatever; I have an NES to play NES games).

But aren't they kinda calling themselves out too when they say the FPGA isn't a big deal given existing software emulation? Seemed like they were positioning the whole 'having FPGA' as the big draw for RVGS, now disparaging it for a competitor.

 

[dancrane212]

They are in no position to give lessons about how to "consumerize" hardware seeing their indiegogo is a big flop and they don't even have a prototype to show.

Yup, posts like the above pretty much guarantee that if bigger sites write about the crowdfunding run they are going to see those official comments and write articles that will continue to damage the campaign and "brand".

Mike and company really need to shut this down and reorganize. They are just hurting any hope of a second chance at this point.

 

[Kawika]

Mike and company really need to shut this down and reorganize. They are just hurting any hope of a second chance at this point.

I could not agree more. Shut it down, regroup, get that prototype sorted out, cost cut, and definitely reduce their funding goal. I would also like to see it on KS not IGG but I don't know if that matters too much.

Personally, I think its pretty clear the market doesn't want what they are offering in the form they are offering it.

 

[clem84]

Mike and company really need to shut this down and reorganize. They are just hurting any hope of a second chance at this point.

Yeah pretty much.

Yesterday at 1h00pm: 160 backers, 56 684$, 3% of funding goal
23 hours later, today at 12h30pm: 173 backers, 61 196$, 3% of funding goal

Pretty obvious it ain't gonna happen. Shut down, regroup, iron out the issues and re-launch. This is their best chance of seeing this project being funded.

 

[L.O.R.D]

so , what this console actually play ?
is an android device ?

 

[stan423321]

Basically, this all stems from devs wanting this to be everything at once I think.

If they want a system for cartridges with newer (indie) games, they should throw the FPGA away because while it's an interesting piece of hardware, it's too complex to actually manage in an actual game for a typical developer. (See: Cell.) At the same time, it isn't really THAT powerful. The best case scenario is basically a cheap PC with a PCI(e)-based cartridge slot - this could reduce porting costs of games with Linux version to zero, as well as allow sensible hardware update scheme and some cool mods.

If they want a system with an FPGA, they should include old cartridge slots in the base unit, throw in an Ethernet port to make development easier for hobbists and then basically follow Kevtris's advice. Perhaps they could release a few new games showcasing the FPGA's potential on Genesis-like carts, similarly to 32X, to save on slots, instead of how Kevtris suggests basing their new format on PCI(e) - but at this point this is not the focus of the system.

Combine the two concepts and you are basically shipping two systems in one. To keep the price below the magical $599 point, two butchered systems in one.

 

[LewieP]

so , what this console actually play ?
is an android device ?

IndieGogo backers...

...like a damn fiddle.

 

[NeOak]

Had I presented this thing as a senior project for Electronic Engineering capstone back in College, my professors would have destroyed it for several reasons, starting with Feature bloat. Shit, I'm like... the fuck? Experience my ass. A good engineer lets his work speak and makes it as refined as possible. Not going off and saying "we have the best price! That other guy doesn't know how prices work" or shit like that.

That other guy already has a prototype and BOM. As an EE, I'm shaking my head at this disaster.

Kevtris' board is the kind of hardware porn that I like and makes me throw money at the screen. Not 3D renders.

 

[rbenchley]

so , what this console actually play ?
is an android device ?

There's no actual hardware or software, so your guess is as good as any. I'm waiting for them to announce that Cleve Blakemore is porting Grimoire as a pack-in title. Since Cleve's been working on that game off and on for the past 20 years, it would be perfect for this clusterfuck project.

 

[outunderthestars]

Yeah pretty much.

Yesterday at 1h00pm: 160 backers, 56 684$, 3% of funding goal
23 hours later, today at 12h30pm: 173 backers, 61 196$, 3% of funding goal

Pretty obvious it ain't gonna happen. Shut down, regroup, iron out the issues and re-launch. This is their best chance of seeing this project being funded.

Agreed.

 

[Wereroku]

I am still pretty disappointed to see this all turn out this way. I expected it to get funded, at least. I wonder if it would have done better on Kickstarter or if the price just kills it. Curious to see where they go after the funding fails (or they are ready to admit it's not going to reach their goal and just kill it). I assume they've sunk a good chunk of their own change into this already, so it has to be a rough situation for them.

I don't think they have sunk any money into this beyond the purchase of the jaguar molds and apparently they have already made their money back on that by selling new jaguar shells to collectors. I think the reason they don't have anything to show is because they don't want to invest any money into the project otherwise they could have had prototype boards made up to show off.

 

[Azure Dream]

Whining about dissenters publicly like that does nothing to paint your campaign in a favorable light.

 

[ElectricThunder]

The salt they are throwing at Kevtris is unreal at this point---did they invest early sums to somehow acquire Lot's Wife with totally-not-a-big-deal-FPGA-magic for such an occasion?

Even if every technical mystery and failure of this project was somehow abated, their haughty, smarmy attitude alone is enough to leave a bad taste in the mouth and sink this. Crowdfunding is an underdog's game by and large, David and oft trumped up Goliath, your weapons are optimism, earnestness, competence usually wrought in part by the details, and granting a large and deep tent. Criticism is best constructively absorbed, addressed cordially even---not lashing back with bankrupt rhetoric especially when these aren't exactly iffy issues folks are raising.

"Damn you and your incompetent bugs Contemporary (Indie) Developers! I bid you same to instead come put just bug free premium games on our mystery machine for the good of all, don't worry, we've totally got this~"

Even Cleve wouldn't get involved in this mess, nor Ultimate Newcomer Gold or any other hinterland project of old---their projects actually exist in some corner of madness at least.


Sigh, they could've at least gotten the identity nailed down---the better fantasy machines in hindsight at least tend to get that and naming sense deftly wrought:

http://www.amigau.com/aig/boxphase.html

When you get trumped by an Amiga-thing...not even the FPGA Amiga-thing that was Natami...that never was, at all, even on just written spec alone...well...

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Whining about dissenters publicly like that does nothing to paint your campaign in a favorable light.

It's a pretty dumb thing to do if they are hoping for press attention this week. They are essentially ensuring every article about this mentions the fact there are a lot of people questioning it.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

I could not agree more. Shut it down, regroup, get that prototype sorted out, cost cut, and definitely reduce their funding goal. I would also like to see it on KS not IGG but I don't know if that matters too much.

Personally, I think its pretty clear the market doesn't want what they are offering in the form they are offering it.

 

[DannyDanger]

Why does anyobody want this stuff???

If it's about nostalgia, why wouldn't you want the original console?

If it's about playing the games, why wouldn't go with an emulator?

Edit: wait what?!?!? you play new, retro inspired games on it?! even more pointless

 

[NeOak]

Why does anyobody want this stuff???

If it's about nostalgia, why wouldn't you want the original console?

If it's about playing the games, why wouldn't go with an emulator?

Edit: wait what?!?!? you play new, retro inspired games on it?! even more pointless

Can't connect the original console to newer monitors without an expensive upscaler or other stuff.

Emulation? Not 100% accurate.

3rd one: Lol

FYI: Silicon degrades too, so eventually all the old consoles will die.

 

[Marty Chinn]

They posted more about Kevtris.

Piko (was partnering with Retro for Super Noah's Ark 3D) on AtariAge seemed to post far more scathing comments yet they still wanted to work with him and bring more of his games over. Seemed like Kevtris just posted his thoughts on the situation after it looked like he had been removed from the project.

Not something worth removing him from the campaign and getting this, publicly, argumentative over with.

I think all that pretty much confirms this push is dead. They're in damage control mode because it's so bad that they know people aren't buying into it. If they were doing fine, they'd be smart to not say anything, but it's clear they aren't and now they're acknowledging it.

To make it worse, they're trying to blame everyone else and take very little to no responsibility on themselves. You know a project is screwed when a person can't see fault in themselves.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

There's no actual hardware or software, so your guess is as good as any. I'm waiting for them to announce that Cleve Blakemore is porting Grimoire as a pack-in title. Since Cleve's been working on that game off and on for the past 20 years, it would be perfect for this clusterfuck project.

I'm waiting for them to announce this port.

 

[ultrazilla]

Man this is a mess.

 

[NeOak]

Yesterday at 1h00pm: 160 backers, 56 684$, 3% of funding goal
23 hours later, today at 12h30pm: 173 backers, 61 196$, 3% of funding goal

As of this post:

$61,883USD, 174 backers

 

[mosaic]

That new vitriol toward Kevtris is batshit. They call him a competitor when he even said it wasn't cost effective to make his FPGAs. They scoff at his lack of economy of scale when their strategy for creating one is pure hype. And yet, at the end of the day, who could actually produce a working prototype of a game system?

The irony of all this is I'm more kicking myself for not having the soldering skills to install an HDMI NES after seeing so much PCB porn and screen caps.

 

[NoFaceNico]

RETRO VGS We were going to contract with Kevin and license his cores at $10K/Core, his asking price. Plus we were going to help fund his development of the 16 bit cores. Then he throws US under the bus. He has a prototype board, we have the even more expensve part of the process in hand the tooling. We would have been happy to work with him, but instead, he wants to attempt to compete with our product with an expensive $200-$250 bare board that won't do half of what the RETRO VGS would do.
Like · Reply · 47 minutes ago · Edited

You threw him under the bus when you canceled your meeting at the last minute (which just speaks volumes as to the professionalism of your team) and ignored his advice. He's not even trying to compete with you, he's figuring out if his idea is what consumers want. After taking a glance at your campaign, you're trying to sell something consumers obviously don't want. And the tooling isn't the most expensive part, even if it were you certainly didn't pass those cost savings to us like you promised. Piko is hoping to partner with him and plans to use generic cases from China that cost very little. Look at the 1chipMSX, that's a cartridge system with an FPGA that has a beautifully simple case.

RETRO VGS When he actually does some homework on what it would take to "consumerize" his product and put his bare board into a console shell, add a controller and pack-in game, and incorporate the ARM and both the digital and analog output, go through the regulatory process, etc. he will find out he can't do it for any for any less than we can. I guarantee you all that!
Like · Reply · 46 minutes ago · Edited

Y'know he's currently doing his homework and scouting the market. I wish you guys had done your homework, then you might have known that the $2mil goal was completely unreachable and $350 for a "retro" console was completely idiotic... Oh wait, you did do market research

Yeah, right. I'm sure that's true. I'm sure that actually happened and I'm sure it was more thorough than a google search of "how big is the retro gaming market?"

Nobody wants your controller (2 stars on Amazon) and nobody wants your pack-in game, it's a blatant ripoff of Super Frog for Amiga.

RETRO VGS The main focus of RETRO VGS isn't to play old games but these new retro games being made today, on cartridges. His product is just another way to emulate like dozens of products before it. And with the FPGA it won't compete in any way, shape or form with the countless other software emulated systems out there. His is a failed model from the start and it's a shame he couldn't combine his efforts with our product and make a real compelling product that would do something unlike any other system on the market.
Like · Reply · 58 minutes ago

Gee, you weren't that critical of FPGA emulation back when you were hyping the system. And for those who have been using emulators (read: retro gamers) FPGA does do something emulation and system-on-a-chip designs have not been able to do.

RETRO VGS And, he isn't the only game in town when it comes to FPGA core development.
Like · Reply · 48 minutes ago

Of course he's not the only one, he's a skilled developer, not fuckin' Highlander. I'm actually glad there are other people in the forums who have shown off their home-made FPGA boards and development expertise. They also unanimously tell us your $100,000 prototype board development budget is a cash grab.

 

[Dicer]

They are simply mental...

For all the cost and fuck ups of this thing, they could have easily added an Ethernet port or wifi compatibility with simple networking enough to patch carts add a little flash area to each cart or in the console, boom done.

This whole thing is laughable mess, they need to pull it now, regroup and come back with a solid plan, because as of now, that ship is taking on way too much water....

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Mike has ripped on the Ouya a lot during the lead up to this campaign.

Man, the Ouya is looking like the PS4 compared to this thing. What an absolute trainwreck.

They are simply mental...

For all the cost and fuck ups of this thing, they could have easily added an Ethernet port or wifi compatibility with simple networking enough to patch carts add a little flash area to each cart or in the console, boom done.

This whole thing is laughable mess, they need to pull it now, regroup and come back with a solid plan, because as of now, that ship is taking on way too much water....

The damage has been done. No one will ever support them now. The way they've treated the community over the past two days is shameful and I can guarantee you all the retooling and rebranding in the world won't do a damn thing for them. It's over.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

They are simply mental...

For all the cost and fuck ups of this thing, they could have easily added an Ethernet port or wifi compatibility with simple networking enough to patch carts add a little flash area to each cart or in the console, boom done.

But that isn't 90s enough

 

[DannyDanger]

Can't connect the original console to newer monitors without an expensive upscaler or other stuff.

Emulation? Not 100% accurate.

3rd one: Lol

FYI: Silicon degrades too, so eventually all the old consoles will die.

The upscaler is NOT going to cost more than this console... guaranteed

Emulation for retro consoles before the 3d era works perfectly... I have no clue what you mean by "not 100% accurate"

None of the above even matters, because you don't play actual retro software on it

Overall this just costs more than its worth for all parties... Just so you can play a retro inspired indie on a cartridge????