-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Rime Creative Director: "Reading Neogaf made me cry for two days"
- Thread starter Ahasverus
- Start date
NeoGAF largely positive and encourages discussion? Have you been into a thread where a discussion gets completely derailed because of drive by first posts? A Nintendo thread where people hate a game and spread misinformation about something they never played? This place is especially toxic compared to some other forums I go to because of all the fanboy wankery.
NeoRaider
Member
At the end of the day most important thing is that they didn't give up. With all the difficulties they faced during the development, they continued to believe in what they created and worked even harder.
RiME will be out in just few weeks and i really hope that gamers and critics will love it. It definitely looks like a great game to me, so i guess this can be called happy ending? For both developers and gamers.
Developers will finally release what they worked on for years, and gamers are getting another, (hopefully) great, indie game.
RiME will be out in just few weeks and i really hope that gamers and critics will love it. It definitely looks like a great game to me, so i guess this can be called happy ending? For both developers and gamers.
Developers will finally release what they worked on for years, and gamers are getting another, (hopefully) great, indie game.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
As a spaniard that did enter the spanish game industry and seen with my own eyes how fucking horrific we can be, how is nearly ruled like a fucking mafia (or like I like to say, we deserved the politicians we have because we are not better than them), and have heard a bunch of stuff of the only two "big" game studios we have...
While I feel somewhat bad for Raul, Tequila, or any other studio from any part of the world (so not only spain) that gets horrible shit written on the internet that is really hard to read, I still think what I thought when that thread happened, and its that we as an industry still think we are acting like mighty professionals, but we are shit in general of how we are trying to be a viable industry compared to the rest of the world. And its not only bucause of the horrible taxes spain has, but becuase we think we are the fucking best and we really are nothing, not even mercury nor Tequila (and both have had their big share of problems with this). And theres stuff about Sexy Brutale that would personally affect me if I was still with my old group, but thankfully that was long ago so I dont really give two shits anymore, although I still think some of the things Ive heard are, lets say, a little strange.
So I feel you Raul that is hard stuff and people can be really shitty sometimes (including gaf, because we are not above any other place and this place can be really negative sometimes), but lets not behave we spanish devs as saints either that cry to this stuff becuase we are super good an inoccent. I feel ashamed sometimes of being a spanish dev.
Im glad they didnt give up and could actually make the game at the end though, and I hope is good.
While I feel somewhat bad for Raul, Tequila, or any other studio from any part of the world (so not only spain) that gets horrible shit written on the internet that is really hard to read, I still think what I thought when that thread happened, and its that we as an industry still think we are acting like mighty professionals, but we are shit in general of how we are trying to be a viable industry compared to the rest of the world. And its not only bucause of the horrible taxes spain has, but becuase we think we are the fucking best and we really are nothing, not even mercury nor Tequila (and both have had their big share of problems with this). And theres stuff about Sexy Brutale that would personally affect me if I was still with my old group, but thankfully that was long ago so I dont really give two shits anymore, although I still think some of the things Ive heard are, lets say, a little strange.
So I feel you Raul that is hard stuff and people can be really shitty sometimes (including gaf, because we are not above any other place and this place can be really negative sometimes), but lets not behave we spanish devs as saints either that cry to this stuff becuase we are super good an inoccent. I feel ashamed sometimes of being a spanish dev.
Im glad they didnt give up and could actually make the game at the end though, and I hope is good.
-Mutsukki-
Member
Comments here sometimes do cross into /v/ and reddit territory so I do not get your point.
JetSetRadio
Banned
You can't just mess around with videogames.
One of the most revered developers on here should not worry about checking gaf. There is a large majority here who idolizes Neil.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
GAF makes me cry everyday.
'tis a sad thread, but this made me lol
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Yeah, many people on GAF are usually quick to judge and generally sceptic and cynic.
But in that case people where basically super excited for the game and then we heard nothing for a long time and then information came to light that the game never excited and the trailer was fake and the studio mismanaged. Even though that wasn't confirmed it made a lot of sense.
Obviously people were pissed.
Compared to other places where people talk about video games, GAF is very civilized, and thats probably the reason why some devs take to heart what written here.
You can brush of a bunch of Youtube comments or angry tweets, but GAF kinda stands for something.
But in that case people where basically super excited for the game and then we heard nothing for a long time and then information came to light that the game never excited and the trailer was fake and the studio mismanaged. Even though that wasn't confirmed it made a lot of sense.
Obviously people were pissed.
Compared to other places where people talk about video games, GAF is very civilized, and thats probably the reason why some devs take to heart what written here.
You can brush of a bunch of Youtube comments or angry tweets, but GAF kinda stands for something.
Even users can experience this to a lesser degree. Say something wrong or make a mistake and the pile on can be brutal. Even after you've corrected/clarified/apologised you'll get people popping out of the woodwork 6 pages later to tell you how much of an arsehole you are for being wrong.
Dude left because people in the review thread dogpiled him for liking Andromeda.
Glass Shark
Banned
.
BossDarkseid
Member
You want to cite a game from 2017 that completely ignored criticism of the previous installment?
No? You can trace several design decisions for Andromeda to criticism for ME3 and ME2. You can debate the finished product forever though
I enjoyed what I have played of Andromeda, but I hit a game breaking bug (stopped progress on a MSQ in the ice planet) and even though it has since been patched, I am just waiting a while to continue. What happened to Shinobi was pretty awful,it's not like there is civil discussion with conflicting points of view in every thread.
Jonneh3003
Banned
Just like any community we have our overly negative members that do come across as needlessly mean. It's a sad representative of GAF and I'm sorry he was so effected by them. A few of my friends in real life avoid GAF because they say it's overly negative and while I don't always agree with them I do wish we could be little more positive.
There's a difference between well constructed criticism based on facts & personal experiences vs. the kind of entitled, whiny-ass pathetic bitching often based on hearsay & unconfirmed rumors that goes way overboard & which even some mods here partake in.
Did you read the posts there? Everyone says there its Not a scam (except OP)
You ever been a review thread for a game neogaf liked where the reviewer gave it a lower then norm score?
Shinobi seems like a nice enough guy, but I feel like it's a bit of a conflict of interest for him to be making threads to give "opinions", when he often plays GAF hypeman to the point of being a shill. The lines are too blurred, and it looks pretty terrible when he is hyping up how great a game is only for it to be trounced in subsequent previews and reviews. That's not even getting into the details of his preview, of which certain aspects were outright false.
Dougieflesh
Member
It really isn't. Not everybody is gonna pat you on the back and be nice. That's not how the real world works. He's a grown ass man crying for two days over anonymous internet comments.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Sounds like the anger was a mix of the price, the supposed fake gameplay, and the fact that it was no longer a PS4 exclusive.
-Mutsukki-
Member
Which makes me think that you select your threads very carefully because more often than not you will read a lot of things similar to "lmao Halo is shit". And by critic I meant a professional one, not somebody who just make some passing comments in a thread
Seriously? That's a real shame. Sadly he probably won't be the last.
Glass Shark
Banned
.
SaintMadeOfPlaster
Member
It's no secret that GAF is one of the most negative communities in the gaming scene. Half the people on this board just come here to complain and/or attack others.
Jonneh3003
Banned
This actually hurts to read. People need to stop and think before they hit post. I've also been dog piled for liking a game, feels weird.
I can't imagine how difficult it must be to read people on the internet criticizing your precious hard work. Why, if I hadn't been born with this here mysterious congenital blindness I'd look at whatever it is everyone's politely discussing in this thread on my message board right now, but my caretakers say it's all very sweet, dear, and not to worry.
Sexually Aggressive Uncle
Member
Neogaf hasn't been developer friendly in years, and I'm talking 10+ years here. There used to be a lot of developers and real insiders around here back in the GAF to early Neo days but that was then. Now this place might as well be GameFaqs' stepsister.
I sure as hell wouldn't come here if I was one, that's for sure.
I sure as hell wouldn't come here if I was one, that's for sure.
Pinko Marx
Banned
GAFholes.
Finale Fireworker
Member
This makes me sad and also makes me wonder.
I've spent a long time on the internet - as I'm sure many others here have. I grew up on GameFAQs, the official Nsider Forums, IGN, /v/, Kotaku comments sections, and I only joined GAF during the Super Smash Bros 4 hype cycle.
My immediate opinion of GAF was that this was a better educated, better moderated, more interesting gaming community. I beheld the forum in reverie and, as a junior, I was afraid to even post. I eventually got more comfortable here and the shine came off the apple a bit. I realized this is still just a video game forum, but compared to other heavy-hitters like YouTube or Reddit, GAF threads look like downright Socratic.
I've been on GAF for a few years now. I simply could not and would not participate in another gaming community. If I was banned from here, there would be no substitute. And if I had to pick any forum to be lambasted or dragged by, it would be this one.
People say GAF isn't nice or welcoming or GAF toxic or full of vitriol, but I would chalk these claims up to an actual quality of GAF: its tendency towards hyperbole. I work six days a week and live on my iPhone. There is no forum or chatroom or message board that has been more welcoming, accommodating, or rewarding than NeoGAF.
All that said...
There is no question that the negativity found on GAF can be found tenfold, and with greater consequences, elsewhere on the web. But it being worse somewhere else doesn't mean it can't be better here. As indie games get bigger and bigger and there are fewer and fewer barriers between communities and developers, we need to remember these are actual people working very hard to make something. We should show them some respect whether we like their game or not.
We are all NeoGAF, after all, and in the end we are all responsible for its image and its effect on people. If they read two and a half years of posts on this forum, it stands to reason they might read this one too. I am sorry that our community left such a painful impression on this developer. I don't think the best course of action is to shrug and say "well, what can you do?" and would support any sort of gesture of respect to Tequila Works and its team.
I don't know if I'll ever play Rime. The Sexy Brutale looks really good, though. But even if I hated both, the last thing I would want to do was make a developer cry for two days.
I've spent a long time on the internet - as I'm sure many others here have. I grew up on GameFAQs, the official Nsider Forums, IGN, /v/, Kotaku comments sections, and I only joined GAF during the Super Smash Bros 4 hype cycle.
My immediate opinion of GAF was that this was a better educated, better moderated, more interesting gaming community. I beheld the forum in reverie and, as a junior, I was afraid to even post. I eventually got more comfortable here and the shine came off the apple a bit. I realized this is still just a video game forum, but compared to other heavy-hitters like YouTube or Reddit, GAF threads look like downright Socratic.
I've been on GAF for a few years now. I simply could not and would not participate in another gaming community. If I was banned from here, there would be no substitute. And if I had to pick any forum to be lambasted or dragged by, it would be this one.
People say GAF isn't nice or welcoming or GAF toxic or full of vitriol, but I would chalk these claims up to an actual quality of GAF: its tendency towards hyperbole. I work six days a week and live on my iPhone. There is no forum or chatroom or message board that has been more welcoming, accommodating, or rewarding than NeoGAF.
All that said...
There is no question that the negativity found on GAF can be found tenfold, and with greater consequences, elsewhere on the web. But it being worse somewhere else doesn't mean it can't be better here. As indie games get bigger and bigger and there are fewer and fewer barriers between communities and developers, we need to remember these are actual people working very hard to make something. We should show them some respect whether we like their game or not.
We are all NeoGAF, after all, and in the end we are all responsible for its image and its effect on people. If they read two and a half years of posts on this forum, it stands to reason they might read this one too. I am sorry that our community left such a painful impression on this developer. I don't think the best course of action is to shrug and say "well, what can you do?" and would support any sort of gesture of respect to Tequila Works and its team.
I don't know if I'll ever play Rime. The Sexy Brutale looks really good, though. But even if I hated both, the last thing I would want to do was make a developer cry for two days.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Not really. All it takes is someone to have a different perspective on things, and then you'll get bombarded with "OMFG SHIT OPINIONS LOG OFF" or something of the like. Before registering here in 2015, I wanted to see why the internet had a certain opinion of NeoGAF. After a couple of years, I've dealt with people who don't understand subjectivity, make up fake stuff about games that they didn't even play but want to discuss for some reason, throw out insults about journalists/YouTubers/critics because their ratings didn't match up with theirs (even when they HAVEN'T played the game).
There are some nice people (I especially enjoy posting LTTPs with others who played the game, and in specific threads like MML2, N64, etc), but NeoGAF isn't really different from sites like reddit in terms of negativity.
Holy crap I didn't even know he was gone.
Nintendo monitors reactions offline and online. I'm pretty sure however that most devs don't directly read most of it. They probably just hear "people on the Internet want XY" without further details what the exact source is.
They wouldn't complain though if it was a bunch of pie in the sky hypetraining with little regard to reality like we saw with NMS for example.
You have to take the good with the bad and treat the rare nuanced, constructive criticism with reverence.
HueyFreeman
Banned
The internet in a nutshell. Not sure why people can't conceptualize that there are real people affected by the things they say.
Criticism is fair and a person producing art should receive and grow from it, but hateful garbage just causes an artist to involute, and results in the player/viewer/reader/listener eventually getting less.
Criticism is fair and a person producing art should receive and grow from it, but hateful garbage just causes an artist to involute, and results in the player/viewer/reader/listener eventually getting less.
To be fair, I might have riffed on the game(studio) unnecessarily hard, but unlike some want you to believe, not becausr Sony dropped it,but because of the alleged way the studio was run. But Sony dropping it, made that story somewhat believable. It also caused me to be wary about The Sexy Brutale, which seemed to have turned out nice.
All in all, yes, I and some others probably overreacted on that story. I have no joy in Rime failing, I am still looking forward to it, but at the time I definitely went from "super excited" to "let's see when (if) this game comes out. On the other hand I think Tequila Works could have alleviated much of the negativity around Rime by being more open around the development of the game. If anything, the game was announced to early, probably to secure further funding,and certainly became notorious for "that game that was announced, where we haven't heard anything from (except that shitty story)".
But now that Rime is getting closer and closer to release, I also feel my excitement growing again.
All in all, yes, I and some others probably overreacted on that story. I have no joy in Rime failing, I am still looking forward to it, but at the time I definitely went from "super excited" to "let's see when (if) this game comes out. On the other hand I think Tequila Works could have alleviated much of the negativity around Rime by being more open around the development of the game. If anything, the game was announced to early, probably to secure further funding,and certainly became notorious for "that game that was announced, where we haven't heard anything from (except that shitty story)".
But now that Rime is getting closer and closer to release, I also feel my excitement growing again.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Wait, what happened with Shinobi? Didn't hear about that.
IIRC the Andromeda review thread had to be temporarily locked because it went shithouse.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Man, that's messed up. Someone who enjoyed his time with ME:A (like me, despite its many flaws), gets dogpiled on because Metacritic doesn't line up with his views. Video game review culture is toxic - if it ain't 90+ then it's trash, apparently.
Weltall Zero
Member
As a fellow Spaniard and Madrid resident this deeply saddens me (he also looks like a really nice guy in the videos). GAF is only marginally better than the rest of the internet at hot takes and overreacting (and yes, I'm guilty of that sometimes too). However I respect GAF a lot and if he has a similar amount of respect, no amount of rational reasons can soften the emotional blow that is having them shit on his game and years-long efforts. Being an independent game developer is a crazy emotion rollercoaster as it is.
I see this all seems to be out of some rumor on the Vandal forums? When will you guys learn to disregard anything coming out of Spanish media, let alone forums? Our country is filled with trolls and envious people looking for the tiniest chance to shit on others' successes.
As an aside, the "GAF shaping games" turn in this thread is a little out of left field. Even long time GAFers that have eventually developed games know better than to take GAF's reaction in either direction at face value.
I see this all seems to be out of some rumor on the Vandal forums? When will you guys learn to disregard anything coming out of Spanish media, let alone forums? Our country is filled with trolls and envious people looking for the tiniest chance to shit on others' successes.
As an aside, the "GAF shaping games" turn in this thread is a little out of left field. Even long time GAFers that have eventually developed games know better than to take GAF's reaction in either direction at face value.
BoxManLocke
Member
The piling-on and witch-hunting can get really intense really fast here, particularly in regards of accusations of shadiness, even if there is no proof whatsoever.
People couldn't wait to jump on this game after Sony dropped it, just like they couldn't wait to confirm their bias against Mass Effect even if it meant throwing a respected member of the community under the bus.
I still adore GAF and most people in it. It's a great place to have discussions thanks to the mods. If I was a dev however I probably wouldn't read it, especially years worth of comments (why on earth would you put yourself through that).
People couldn't wait to jump on this game after Sony dropped it, just like they couldn't wait to confirm their bias against Mass Effect even if it meant throwing a respected member of the community under the bus.
I still adore GAF and most people in it. It's a great place to have discussions thanks to the mods. If I was a dev however I probably wouldn't read it, especially years worth of comments (why on earth would you put yourself through that).
Jonneh3003
Banned
Some irony in this comment, you're disregarding individuals just because they have a junior status. You also made a junior joke in the Breath of the Wild Theme thread.
Pretty sure the poster you quoted is talking about the industry as a whole and criticism in general. Not that devs need to have prototypes green-lit by gaf.
I mean do you think those games were the very first entries in series by devs who worked on nothing else before? That these games were made manifest from a void and not from expertise gained by breaking down and analyzing concepts? Decades of criticism led to the ideas and quality all games today are built on. Every single one of those games are being criticized now so the next batch of games can learn from them.
Criticism is extremely important to the success of this industry in the sense that poster was talking about, even though that's not the type of criticism this topic is about.
I question what kind of human being you are if you still identify as a "conservative" or "Republican" given that they pretty much just stand for hatred, racism, and fucking poor people as much as possible with big government while cutting government regulations for the rich. Yes, let's stand up for leaving thousands of people to die without health care, being extremely racist, destroying the environment in the name of profit, taking away women's and LGBT rights, destroying Privacy rights so they can sell all of our information to corporations, and making sure that the richer get richer while the poor get poorer and stupider.
Most of the time I've seen people being afraid of being "conservative" on the gaming side they're usually trying to do some dogwhistle shit or dancing around things like being transphobic.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I remember the Dead Rising 4 thread where the lead writer talked about the story. Some Gaffers were rightfully angry and properly criticized what the writer said. Not everyone was happy with some of the narrative choices he wanted the game to with. And then you had someone that took the anger way too far and randomly posted a picture of the guy and wanted to talk shit about his looks by calling him a "hipster". The last part is stuff we need to get better at avoiding.
Weltall Zero
Member
Yes, that's how it works. If I call you a child molester in front of your coworkers and everyone believes me, you have no reason to be sad because it isn't true.