THOSE MONSTERS!
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Rock, Paper Shotgun will no longer cover PAX...
- Thread starter Cosmonaut X
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I think people are being distracted by the transgender and rape things. It's not really about those things, it's about bullying, although it is made worse by the fact the groups being bullied are already marginal and discriminated against.
Imagine that you were talking to your friend, and made an offhand comment something like this: "man, you love nerdy stuff so much it must be in your DNA. Is your dad a nerd, too?" to which your friend responded "actually, I was adopted, but my dad likes games, yeah."
What would you say? Would you say "wait, do you mean your real dad, or your adopted one?" You probably wouldn't, but if your friend then said "my adopted dad is my real dad. My biological father means nothing to me" would you then go to say "Heads up. I seriously believe fathers and sons share the same DNA. If that makes me a monster, then I am a monster." You probably wouldn't, because you're not a shitty little bully. That's what this is about, and nothing more.
Imagine that you were talking to your friend, and made an offhand comment something like this: "man, you love nerdy stuff so much it must be in your DNA. Is your dad a nerd, too?" to which your friend responded "actually, I was adopted, but my dad likes games, yeah."
What would you say? Would you say "wait, do you mean your real dad, or your adopted one?" You probably wouldn't, but if your friend then said "my adopted dad is my real dad. My biological father means nothing to me" would you then go to say "Heads up. I seriously believe fathers and sons share the same DNA. If that makes me a monster, then I am a monster." You probably wouldn't, because you're not a shitty little bully. That's what this is about, and nothing more.
If RPS is going to say they are standing on principle, they could have the decency to describe the events as they occurred, and most importantly, to at least mention the very public apology Mike made after his insensitive-to-the-transgendered community remarks. The dickwolves thing is not at all a black and white issue - they made a joke about MMO's which discussed rape. They were attacked for joking about rape. I do not think it is clear they should have stopped selling merchandise, which though tasteless and crude (like the Fruit F'r and many other PA jokes) is not discriminatory as far as I an tell. I think by neglecting to tell the whole transgender/PA story, and instead just describing the site as "internet hatemongers", RPS is doing a disservice to everyone.
TouchMyBox
Member
I guess you can say they already boycott those since they are not personal computers.
And i don't like the fact that John though the dickwolf jokes were funny then edited his comment when someone called him out in the same topic for what he was criticizing.
it's like there's a group of friends who've known each other for years and one of them who's a pretty stand up guy but all other accounts has always grumbled about immigrants is now thinking about voting UKIP. this leads to some of the more sensitive members of the group deciding that no way are they going to his board game party, even though wasif from iran is bringing catan this week.
the next week, however, some guy is hosting a giant warehouse party. the sensitive dudes heard something about this guy running it breaking some kids legs over a joint's worth of weed, but they're all just rumours, they really don't know the guy anyway and that's just how it goes in his line of work. he might not even be there and it's the party of the year, so there's no need to miss out on that.
the next week, however, some guy is hosting a giant warehouse party. the sensitive dudes heard something about this guy running it breaking some kids legs over a joint's worth of weed, but they're all just rumours, they really don't know the guy anyway and that's just how it goes in his line of work. he might not even be there and it's the party of the year, so there's no need to miss out on that.
Chairmanchuck
Member
There are two things I wanted to contribute.
First off its that everyone is entitled to their opinion.
So to me its just an opinion of someone on a website and wont associate the whole website just because someone in charge said something stupid.
And its also okay if RPS wants to boycott the coverage because of that.
Second: I just think people should just grow some thicker skin and shouldnt be offended by every little thing. This things get blown off to big. I mean if someone on the street tells me I am a Nazi because Im german, I would just dismiss his opinion.
If someone from a website says this, I would do the same.
If someone is joking about that, I take it as a joke.
If a transgendered person already gets offended by someone saying "Women have vaginas", then I really think they should grow a thicker skin. Besides, maybe because Im a self-concious person, I would dismiss such an opinion. It doesnt care what someone else says about my sexuality. Its my choice and no one elses. If people would wanna make fun of it, f*** them.
To me it just seems with every little opinion someone has, some group could feel offended.
Funny that they waited until after PAX 2013 to decide to boycott. I guess their morality can't really stand up to the prospect of losing money on non-refundable plane tickets.
Prime crotch
Banned
It's not a question of can, it's a question of want, and both the management and community has shown plenty of times a not want; because honestly inviting people under the pretense "see, we care?" is just a missguided gesture.
And if PAX doesn't want to change, people will move to an environment that will listen to such topics.
As for RPS stand, I dunno, I'm not a fan of a journalist sites taking stances, but RPS is hardly that.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Never seen an industry so preoccupied with censoring itself and taking down others for expressing themselves in ways that are not politically correct.
No, they were criticised for a joke that referenced rape. They were "attacked" for their absolutely thoughtless and antagonistic handling of that criticism.
bishopcruz
Member
I must be the only person who thinks it's odd that gaming sites have to cover events like PAX since it's more like a fanboy convention than anything else. I've been to PAX East and it heavily caters to those who miss out on the big conventions. I understand why publishers and companies announce stuff there (the fans), but it's almost like they need their own press event before the masses descend up the convention center.
Besides, 95% of the stuff that comes out of PAX isn't that big either. You get more out of Comic-Con than you get out of PAX in terms of reveals and news.
Besides, 95% of the stuff that comes out of PAX isn't that big either. You get more out of Comic-Con than you get out of PAX in terms of reveals and news.
Agreed. I used to love RPS, read them for years but their recent political campaigns keep bothering me and I don't understand why they would single out PA (which I haven't read for years) when probably every company and every event has "worse" people behind them.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
Apparently raising $20 Million for dying kids through Child's Play can be cancelled out by a few rape jokes.
ManUtdRedDevils
Member
Yup. He is entitled to his views regardless if I find them ignorant, but mental illness is not an excuse for one's behavior.
bishopcruz
Member
So wait, what then would prove that they want? I mean in most logical circles if you want to be more inclusive you will invite people who you feel should be included, offer panels based on gendered and minority subjects, and do what you can to expand discussion on these topics. All evidence shows that they are doing just that. But apparently people can read minds and as such know for a fact that it is just "pretense".
You know what Child's Play does, right?
You donate and hospitals are then allowed to buy new games and consoles off of Amazon. The kids don't have to be terminally ill.
You can still be an asshole and be boycotted no matter how much "good" you've done up until that point. Being able to be criticized based on the amount of money you raised is a concerning thought process.
sigh.
People shouldn't ignore things and not talk about them, because talking about them and doing things caused every social change in the world ever. I wouldn't have the same rights as other people in the country I live in if people " grew thicker skin" if discussion of people who are being misrepresented bothers you so much, Live in a damn cave and never come out. People want things, they want to be treated eaqual. Maybe you should grow thicker skin.
I am intolerant of you being intolerant of my intolerance. You all had to deal with all that injustice right? You can deal with it some more.
hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka
Member
What it's about is in the original post. An article that long can't fit in the thread title so the forum software creator made a section where you can put more words and that section has everything you need to know.
But it is a REASON and being open about that reason is actually something that should be commended and not BASHED like some people here are doing. What the Hell?
And TWO incidents (over-reaction to dickwolf criticism, offhand confusion on the tricky topic sex and gender) over three years does NOT a pattern make. Seriously.
Nobody buys freedom of speech and good works do not cancel out the bad. This isn't a zero sum game. Child's Play has done great things, but one of the people behind it is an abhorrent human being... and RPS said nothing of Child's Play, just PAX.
Conciliator
Banned
Eh, they have their moments every now and then.
No one is attacking him over having mental health issues.
Interfectum
Gold Member
Abhorrent... really? Does everything have to be so extreme?
See? What the hell is this kind of insane personal attack? I"m beginning to see the kind of shit Mike probably had thrown at him on twitter. What the hell is going on here?
Prime crotch
Banned
Their actions speak louder than words, the outsiders still feel unconfortable and downright threatned at times and this isn't a recent thing. Allowing some panels is just empty gesture or barely doing anything; basically they're not tackling the issue or straight up ignoring it.
I find him to be very morally bad, which is another way of saying abhorrent. Next time I'll just say 'very morally bad'. Kay?
I didn't know a complete mea culpa involved him saying 'I'm sorry you were offended' and 'I will probably do it again'.
His latest apology is an improvement though.
Everybody who complains about a 'half-hearted' apology from him when Mike has published complete mea culpas that mentioned his personality and tendency to react kind of really is. And hell people right here are calling him abhorrent. I can't begin to imagine what people fired on him at twitter Jeeezus.
Chairmanchuck
Member
If people would wanna be treated as equals (and at least here in europe I see they are), they shouldnt jump at every little joke about them or about other people have some different opinion.
Its not like 500.000 people against 10.000 transgendered people.
Everyone has an own opinion. Its my opinion against someones elses. Like yours now.
And I also think there needs to be a debatte about that topic. No arguing against that. But these debattes shouldnt be made when its about some opinion of someone from a website and then it gets overblown.
What the hell, you're not evening going by his last word on the subject (conveniently not mentioned AT ALL by RPS), going by something that happened in the MIDDLE of the controversy taken completely out of context and feel completely fine in calling him an abhorrent human being?
It depends what you mean by bullying, I guess, but to me bullying is a person with power insulting and demeaning a person without power, because he knows that even if the weaker person tried to defend himself, nobody will listen.
That's exactly what I see with "if you want me to call you a woman, then call me batman" and printing up the dickwolves shirts. Personally, I have no issue with the original comic, or even the original transgender tweet. Maybe for Mike Krahulik, gender doesn't exist, so for him, "vagina" and "woman" are just different words for the same thing, and are only relevant when a person is visiting their doctor. Whatever. For someone with fame and power to respond say, first, "women have vaginas" and then respond to the comment "I'm a woman, and I don't have a vagina" with what amounts to "yeah, right, but you're really a man" amounts to bullying.
It's likely in response to a comment made during an event that took place on the final day of PAX 2013.
However, what I don't get is that PAX was weeks ago. As far as I knew, the furor over the latest flareup had mostly ended with Gabe's apology (or "apology", depending on your viewpoint). Why all of a sudden did Cards Without Humanity and RPS decide to talk about it now and not, say, 2 weeks ago?
I can understand addressing it when PAX East passes go on sale, or just before PAX East or whatever, but to suddenly dredge it all back up again after it had died down seems kind of strange to me.
We get it, you are offended for the PA crew. Don't overplay your hand though, or you will look even sillier.
I have to admit I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
Is saying "women have vaginas" somehow injustice? You know, here in Estonia if the psychiatric evaluation determines you to be psychologically of a different gender that physiologically, the government (meaning my taxes) pays for the sex change operation. You get it FOR FREE.
So here at least, all women do indeed have vaginas, in the long run.
I think you're downplaying the power of his opinion. He's not just 'some guy' but a legitimate internet celebrity that people form their opinions based on.
That's a stretch - you can't apologise for stupid shit you do ad nauseum and expect people to take each apology as sincerely as they did the last.
Nobody had out and out called him an abhorrent human being up till that point.
ok i'm going to address this because you and a lot of the rest of this board have things they need to understand about trans people. i didn't understand these things for a long time but i have some trans friends who have taught me about them and you need to hear it.
trans people (largely) grow up uncomfortable in their own skin. they feel like they aren't who they should be, and most of them are being told all the time that the way they feel is awful and sinful, or just that it's a phase. imagine having the deepest and most fundamental aspect of your identity ignored, marginalized, and stigmatized by everyone you know and love for your entire life.
this fucking sucks and is why trans people have such a high rate of suicide and addiction, orders of magnitude higher than almost any other demographic. it means that most of them live their entire lives with a huge gaping emotional wound, one that can't even begin to heal after they transition because when they come out and start living like they feel they should people still treat them like their biological sex and not their gender. they're abused, raped, politically and legally spat upon, and murdered at incredible rates, and that's just in america and other western countries where they have it pretty good by comparison to the rest of the world.
trans people are, by most standards, one of the most oppressed sections of humanity in existence.
you can hold the opinion that all women have vaginas and all men have penises, and yes by sheer numbers you are largely correct. but when you are dealing with trans people and say things like that you are telling them straight up that you deny their gender and see them the way they have been seen by everyone who has abused them in their life. it's like going up to a disabled person and saying that hey, sorry it's just my opinion, but human beings have working legs/eyes/etc. you are largely correct but you are still being an asshole and a bully.
mike responded this way to someone complaining that a game about female masturbation excluded transwomen. he basically said to every transwoman on the internet that they are not in fact women. he denied one of the fundamental aspects of their existence, the same way you are doing it right here.
it's kind of a shitty thing to do and i hope you don't do it again.
You do not get to decide what gets uner their skin.
You do not get to decide what and when people discuss.
You don't like it, go, leave get out. Clearly you think this discussion shouldn't be had, absolve your self from it. All you are is contributing to it.
Glad to see more people willing to take a stand. PA forums were the first video game forums that I frequented and I shifted to GAF because I wasn't always comfortable with some of the ways that PA presented themselves. While that anger seems to fuel some of their comics, it's probably best left there and off of their public statements.
Do you think that someone on Twitter might have called his entire identity a lie?
Seriously. It's like some people here think RPS is required to cover PAX. :-/
As I said two incidents over three years is hardly any sort of a reasonable defintion of ad-nauseam.
In any case I've said my piece. Really the basic point that actually refers to the OP is that RPS published a bullshit, one sided piece and I don't see why anyone should applaud them for portraying a completely distorted view of the whole thing and having a conversation with people is far better than going on a morally outraged crusade.
And I don't even like penny-arcade all that much. Lord.
Interfectum
Gold Member
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