It's not used all the time but queer is an umbrella term that also applies to anyone who doesn't neatly for into one of those categories. I've also seen it used to mean "questioning" which is fairly self explanatory.
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Rock, Paper Shotgun will no longer cover PAX...
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NathanMcMahon
Banned
I'm confused when a vocal group of gamers want real journalism involved in their hobby, yet cheer on this very non-journalistic and unprofessional response. If RPS is a news organization, then they don't have the luxury of taking stands against perceived wrongs. That's what their editorial page is for. This is a serious deficiency and disconnect in the games community at large. They can no longer be taken seriously and relegate themselves to the tired trope and dustbin of enthusiast press. Kind of weird that they've damaged their legitimacy like this.
Riposte
Member
Rock, Paper, Shotgun is pretty much about editorials though. That's why people read it and that is why this bit of news is more about it attracting people who would agree with them than fighting PAX.
Wat
That's what journalists are supposed to do. You might have been confused by all of the formerly real news outlets becoming megaphones for one of our two parties, but journos are supposed to call shit out.
Why is it? That doesn't make anything ok, that just makes all those things bad. But even then those companies do not regularly get on twitter and make asses of themselves .
While we would all like to take down the Legion of Doom in whatever Volcano they publish EA games out of, right now the subject is PA
Kocolino67
Member
This whole thing is to messed up, artifical and full of positionalities. There are only losers in those gender wars. If someone drops this topic I usually grab my popcorn and enjoy the view.
And loot the remaining bodies.
And loot the remaining bodies.
reptilescorpio
Member
Is this a meme I haven't run across yet?
People can argue over the specific incidents all they want, but I think the real fundamental problem is that one of the major faces of PA is liable to shoot his mouth off at any given moment. That has given plenty of people pause, even people who still support PA and PAX.
I don't know if there's a fancy social media term for "people in a company who shouldn't be let anywhere near a bullhorn like Twitter", but Mike fits the bill 100 percent.
I don't know if there's a fancy social media term for "people in a company who shouldn't be let anywhere near a bullhorn like Twitter", but Mike fits the bill 100 percent.
LOL, they are a commentary site. They are journalists. And just as a journalist doesn't have to cover every story, neither do they.
It's pretty sad when communities assume PA of being bigoted, sexist, etc, when it was really just that people are PC online more than ever in this year of 2013. Yes, the knee-jerk reactions have caused some horrible things to be said - on both sides - but no one wants to be accused of a racist, bigot, etc - and right now, this really isn't the case with Penny Arcade.
Just right now, like being a White Knight, it is cool to hate on Penny Arcade. To construed what they say into bigotry is a horrible thing to do to anybody.
Just right now, like being a White Knight, it is cool to hate on Penny Arcade. To construed what they say into bigotry is a horrible thing to do to anybody.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
If they are entirely about editorials then maybe I can see this being a legitimate reaction but they can no longer be considered a news site or journalists if they decide to not cover an event due to the wrongs committed by the people who run it. Their obligation is to inform and they are leaving that obligation at the door.
No they aren't. They are supposed to report unbiased news and the editorial page is meant for "calling out" or airing opinions about what they perceive as wrong. If they are considering themselves journalists then they aren't upholding that ideal by doing this. Journalists don't call out shit.
Of course they don't have to cover stories but by taking a stand they are interjecting themselves into the story and no longer being unbiased. They didn't need to make an announcement, they could've just stopped their coverage and not made it an issue and maintained some legitimacy.
I'm curious if people think it would be okay for NY Times to not cover the upcoming Olympics due to Russia's stance on active bigotry towards gay activists. They would lose a great deal of respect and would be perceived as less than a stellar news organization. While it's on a bigger scale compared to this the principle is the same.
To be fair, I'm not sure "not going to PAX" is the right answer either. PAX isn't improved by somebody not attending, but it can be improved by someone attending. There are thousands of gamers who go to every show, and when you're there, you've the chance to have some of them listen to your side of things.
How about when I'm part of one of the communities of people that Mike has directly insulted?
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I love how this shit snowballs into now its PA "bullying the transgendered". One dudes views that he expresses on Twitter suddenly become viewed as some kind of modus operandi for the entire corporation and get blown up to bullying just because he has a different viewpoint. Oh and then the "we're not trying to censor them" but we're gonna try our damndest to shame them into being afraid.
I assume RPS wouldnt cover Whore of The Orient not just because of its offensive title, but because of the disgraceful business practices of McNamara and co? How about Tecmo and Itagaki and that whole very sticky sexual harassment case? Keep digging and you'll find deplorable shit in every single company.
I assume RPS wouldnt cover Whore of The Orient not just because of its offensive title, but because of the disgraceful business practices of McNamara and co? How about Tecmo and Itagaki and that whole very sticky sexual harassment case? Keep digging and you'll find deplorable shit in every single company.
I am a fan of RPS and don't give two shits about Penny Arcade or what goes on at their expo. Despite this, I was going to post about how it seems a bit "much" for them to stop covering a gaming event because of a dickwolves joke and one artists non-progressive stance on transgendered people. My initial reaction is that there are generally better ways to interact with someone you disagree with than to begin to crowd them out of the discussion and hope everyone else follows suit until they relent since they have been ostracized.
But you know what? I've enjoyed reading John and really admired his opinions and stances over the years. If he feels this is what he has to do, that's cool with me. He has earned that respect.
But you know what? I've enjoyed reading John and really admired his opinions and stances over the years. If he feels this is what he has to do, that's cool with me. He has earned that respect.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Journalism is supposed to "call shit out" through coverage, not non-coverage, though.
I am not sure you make the world a bit better, consider PAX is also host of panels like Queers in Gaming, Creating and Building Inclusive communities, Gender Diversity in games, Political Correctness in Gaming: Let's talk and quite a few others.
Boycotting PAX also means you do not cover these events and possibly expand on them.
It's never that simple
There's plenty of other forums to air opinions on though, PAX is not the only game in town.
He's one of the two owners of Penny Arcade and everything it's founded, and one of the two most public faces of all of those efforts. He isn't just "one dude".
Absolutely true, but having done panels at PAX and seen what kind of effect they can have on people, I feel that much, much more can be done for the cause of inclusiveness by being there than not being there. I do not at all look down upon anybody who boycotts the events, but I also don't agree that that's the right answer.
but but it makes me feel uncomfortable that i have to acknowledge giving PAX money supports an asshole who has apologies about as valuable as a Zimbabwe Dollar
clearly standing up for yourself and saying "no" just means you're being immature
Remember when PA used to call out the assholes in the industry? Now they give them the main theatre of PAX after they screwed other people out of millions of dollars and caused an small developer to have to shut down and everyone there lost their job because of asshole's shady business practices. Mike spent his life being bullied, talked about hating it and wanting to stand up to them, and now has become the bully himself.
Crime drama TV Producers.
And yet so many people continue to not read the article and just read the title of this thread.
Oh, and that "one dude" is half of Penny Arcade, and a very public and vocal part of it.
I like RPS, but I also like Mike and Gabe, I watched the PA series and they seem like odd, but very nice guys, bigoted opinions aside. Mike tearing up and hugging a girl when she talked about Childs Play / when she was living in hospital as a child etc..., he is not the asshole some people paint him as.
IISANDERII
Member
Great to see! Only learned of the PAX misogyny very recently and was sad to think that hardly anybody would stand up to them because they're too big. Glad to see I was wrong!
Dictator93
Member
i agree that it's not a simple problem and i don't hold it against people who still want to attend pax and try to make it a better place
i also don't begrudge rps their viewpoint and solution
I will then take this to mean that every event they DO follow, they fully support the entire actions of the companies in question..
If they cover an iOS game, they support unfair working conditions in third world countries...
If they cover GTA V, they fully support the ability to murder prostitutes...
You cant just pick your moral high grounds to get attention for a couple page hits.. it doesnt feel genuine..
If they cover an iOS game, they support unfair working conditions in third world countries...
If they cover GTA V, they fully support the ability to murder prostitutes...
You cant just pick your moral high grounds to get attention for a couple page hits.. it doesnt feel genuine..
If you are a moron, you could do that.
Yeah haven't had a real "gaming pc" since 2005.
VeryGooster
Banned
It's certainly RPS's prerogative to do so. The editorial at least discusses the ramifications of the message attending and not attending sends out.
Interfectum
Gold Member
They can't boycott things that matter because that would require actual sacrifice.
Picking on Penny Arcade and some of the dumb things they said is an easy win and makes them feel like they are doing something that matters.
People critical of games journalism typically have issues with journalists falling to use critical analysis and blindly regurgitating advertising taking points, not boycotting conventions run by dumb bigots. Easy mistake to make though when your goal is to play devil's advocate no matter how ridiculous your argument might sound!
he is an asshole about certain things and not about others. nobody is pure good or bad.
his problem is that he has very little understanding and sympathy for people outside of his extremely limited experience and viewpoints, and has shown no indication that he is interested in learning and growing as a person.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Tolerance is a two-way street.
Sadly it seems like quite a few people have forgotten about that. If you demand freedom of expression, then you need to make peace with the idea that some people are going to say things that will upset and or annoy you.
Boycotting for purely ideological reasons (as retaliation for expression, not actions) is to surrender the moral high-ground because by doing so you are escalating a difference of opinion into a physical reality.
Sadly it seems like quite a few people have forgotten about that. If you demand freedom of expression, then you need to make peace with the idea that some people are going to say things that will upset and or annoy you.
Boycotting for purely ideological reasons (as retaliation for expression, not actions) is to surrender the moral high-ground because by doing so you are escalating a difference of opinion into a physical reality.
DrROBschiz
Member
Oh the beautiful hypocrisy
I am all for people bettering themselves and having our community develop a mature perspective on these issues
But a lot of this seems like disingenuous pandering.....
I am all for people bettering themselves and having our community develop a mature perspective on these issues
But a lot of this seems like disingenuous pandering.....
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
the whole issue is retarded.
PA tried to be south park and did not succeed. the ineloquent half of the team decided to speak instead of draw and the internet declared them baby rapists.
Then he decided to speak again and declare Male to female transexuals 'technically dudes'
he probably should have left that alone. people caring about a 3 year old incident and some dumb comments about transexuals he probably thought all of 2 seconds about before spouting. Yeah, ban their kids charities!
PA tried to be south park and did not succeed. the ineloquent half of the team decided to speak instead of draw and the internet declared them baby rapists.
Then he decided to speak again and declare Male to female transexuals 'technically dudes'
he probably should have left that alone. people caring about a 3 year old incident and some dumb comments about transexuals he probably thought all of 2 seconds about before spouting. Yeah, ban their kids charities!
False equivalencies raining everywhere
The last incident was not 3 years ago and just because something was spouted off in 3 seconds does not make it not worth being concerned about. He said those things based off viewpoints he's come up with over many years. And has shown time and time again his apologies are worth less than a Zimbabwe Trillion Dollar Bill.
But that would require people in this thread to read that editorial.
Useful that your point is discussed in detail in the actual article then, no?
Principles? I love RPS, and I think they do great work, but boycotting an event isn't exactly a journalistic value.
tolerance is a two way street but that doesn't mean we should be as patient and understanding with people who have a hell of a lot of clout and money. they have raised themselves up to this rarefied height of influence and refuse to accept the responsibilities that come with it.
WOW. The utter ridiculousness of this post is pretty amazing. Talks about freedom of expression, mocks website for expressing themselves. Brilliant.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
People critical of games journalism generally want quality content and reporting and RPS no longer has the higher ground in relation to this as they've taken a stand on any news reporting of an event. Editorial content is fine to engage in the debate but if they want to be taken as a serious news organization then they should engage in the entire journalistic endeavor.
dollartaco
Member
There are a million ways this is a poor decision. I understand an individual's right to make a decision to boycott, say, anything related to Orson Scott Card, but what good would it do for a media outlet to boycott his influential contributions to that outlet's sphere of interest? Does it mean they also give more (or more favorable?) coverage to people and companies whose political positions they also agree with? And there are unquestionably more significant issues that major electronics manufacturers and gaming company holders stand on the wrong side of, but it doesn't mean they a) don't exist or b) don't impact other portions of your coverage in major ways.
In short, gaming journalism.
In short, gaming journalism.
Red Liquorice
Member
KaiserBecks
Member
It's about two comparable companies that should have a common set of values. Seems like PA don't share those values, hence the boycott. It's not about making the world a better place.
Conciliator
Banned
Penny Arcade has definitely got on my nerves with their post-dickwolves/transgender stuff, but it wouldn't be enough for me to stop coverage were I to run a website. That said, I respect RPS and their call on this and they're still one of my favorite gaming coverage sites(maybe #2 after Giant Bomb).
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