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[metalslimer]

That is my exact point. It's completely inaccurate and it always has been. It's never been an accurate barometer. I put no stock in it whatsoever. It's one of the most highly manipulated numbers ever.

So unemployment was extremely high even before the crash? If the methodology has been so wrong this whole time does that mean our economy has been shit for decades?

 

[tkscz]

Am I the only one who thinks that the US is fucked beyond rescue? No matter who got in office?

 

[KHarvey16]

We know that 3 million people have actively quit looking for jobs. We know that another 8.5 million are part-timers that want full time work (which is double the norm when looking at history). We have lost 7 million jobs and we have wiped out every job gained since
the year 2000. From the moment Obama entered office there has been no net gain in full time jobs and a lot of jobs being created are through temp agencies.

Why did you not respond to anything I wrote?

Bernanke says it's wrong as well.

This is what Bernanke said:

BERNANKE ON NEED FOR CONTINUED MONETARY ACCOMMODATION:

"With inflation below target and with unemployment still quite high - and by
some measures with unemployment in some ways being even too optimistic a measure
of the state of the labor market... - both sides of our statutory mandate are
suggesting that we need to maintain a highly accommodative monetary policy for
the foreseeable future. And that's what we intend to do."

That doesn't say the unemployment numbers are wrong, it says looking at unemployment to measure the state of the economy might be too optimistic. That article is very poor.

 

[Vilix]

Am I the only one who thinks that the US is fucked beyond rescue? No matter who got in office?

If you're talking about its political system, yes.

 

[BertramCooper]

I think Romney would be a better president. I'm not saying he'd be a better leader than Obama, ideologically they are rather similar, it's just that the political reality in USA is what it is.

A republican president would get more things done as he'd have more leverage within his own party and the democrats are more likely to co-operate in economic matters. There wouldn't be similar gridlock like what we are witnessing at the moment. At the same time liberals could go back to pretending like they care about civil rights and keep the government somewhat in check. I also doubt Romney would have gone for any sort of radical SCOTUS picks, you'd get more people driving corporate interests so no change on that front.

A Republican president probably would be getting more things done. Terrible, awful, horrible things that would set the country back for decades.

The G.O.P. has been hijacked, and a Romney presidency, despite the fact that I believe Romney is a moderate, would have been beholden to the radical right wingers that got him into office. That's how the G.O.P. works now - the radicals use the threat of a primary challenge to bend otherwise moderate Republicans to their will.

And you can bet that the Tea Party types wouldn't have hesitated to launch a primary challenge against Romney in 2015 if he tried to marginalize them.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

So unemployment was extremely high even before the crash? If the methodology has been so wrong this whole time does that mean our economy has been shit for decades?

People who argue the position of ”stats are bullshit” is guaranteed to be quite ignorant of statistics and data gathering. Especially since the numbers come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and St. Louis Fed and other well regarded institutions.

 

[Sanky Panky]

People who argue the position of ”stats are bullshit” is guaranteed to be quite ignorant of statistics and data gathering. Especially since the numbers come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and St. Louis Fed and other well regarded institutions.

His argument was not that the stat is bullshit. The interpretation of the U-3 unemployment rate (which the Fed chose as its target) as any kind of barometer for a "recovery" is what is bullshit.

The measure is biased lower by people giving up in record numbers to find jobs. The labor force participation rate is at 1980's level, and KHarvey16 is wrong in saying that this is due to baby boomers retiring. The drop is directly correlated with record number of people going on food stamps, disability (since their unemployment benefits run out), and as already mentioned, the gain in jobs have been concentrated in temp jobs/part-time jobs, so that the actual income available to people has DECREASED since 2009.

I'm busy so I can't pull up the stats, but they are there to those that want to look beyond the stock market bubble, and the manufactured short-lived housing recovery.

 

[BSsBrolly]

His argument was not that the stat is bullshit. The interpretation of the U-3 unemployment rate (which the Fed chose as its target) as any kind of barometer for a "recovery" is what is bullshit.

The measure is biased lower by people giving up in record numbers to find jobs. The labor force participation rate is at 1980's level, and KHarvey16 is wrong in saying that this is due to baby boomers retiring. The drop is directly correlated with record number of people going on food stamps, disability (since their unemployment benefits run out), and as already mentioned, the gain in jobs have been concentrated in temp jobs/part-time jobs, so that the actual income available to people has DECREASED since 2009.

I'm busy so I can't pull up the stats, but they are there to those that want to look beyond the stock market bubble, and the manufactured short-lived housing recovery.

The stats are there... But they prove to opposite. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics the US has gained far more full time jobs over part time when you compare 2009 to 2013. You're buying into Republican talking points...

 

[@____@]

Because the gas tax builds our fucking roads and bridges.

Concrete and steel cost more than they did in 1980. Cars use less fuel. The gas tax hasn't moved. And people wonder why there's no money to fix our shitty infrastructure.

There is money to fix the infrastructure but he GOP finds any type of spending that isnt on the military or tax cuts as anathema.

 

[KingK]

This is all correct.

And it should be noted that the GOP blocked Obama from instituting most of his recovery policies and refused to negotiate on them at all.

Our job losses are the result of a cut down in gov't jobs right now. You can blame this entirely on GOP. 100%, no ands ifs of buts.

This is true, however I am of the opinion that Obama and the Dems could have done a much better job combating the Republican narrative of deficit hysteria and slashing spending. Obama capitulated to their narrative after the 2010 election and through 2011 instead of defending and articulating the need for further spending and investment, rather than cuts in spending.

 

[@____@]

I think Romney would be a better president. I'm not saying he'd be a better leader than Obama, ideologically they are rather similar, it's just that the political reality in USA is what it is.

A republican president would get more things done as he'd have more leverage within his own party and the democrats are more likely to co-operate in economic matters. There wouldn't be similar gridlock like what we are witnessing at the moment. At the same time liberals could go back to pretending like they care about civil rights and keep the government somewhat in check. I also doubt Romney would have gone for any sort of radical SCOTUS picks, you'd get more people driving corporate interests so no change on that front.

Radical SCOTUS pick? Who? Kagan? Sotormayer? Or do you mean guys like Thomas and Scalia?

 

[diffusionx]

Considering the guy waited 2 hours to concede an election he lost by a landslide I shouldn't be surprised. How far does your head need to be up your arse for something like that.

All accounts say that Romney was 100% convinced that polls were wrong and he was headed for victory. He was genuinely shocked (and angry) when it turned out that, umm, the polls were right.

Think about that. This guy is supposed to be a business genius yet he believed the unskewed BS over real metrics. Completely delusional.

 

[mustafa]

I don't think it's possible to (correctly) deny that things are worse now than they were when BHO began his second term. That doesn't mean they would have been better with Romney in charge, though, although I think there's a decent chance that they would be ever so slightly better.

 

[diffusionx]

They're not accurate whatsoever. The unemployment numbers are simply not accurate. The government has no idea how many people are actually unemployed at the moment. Figures are based on random sampling of the population and do consider the amount of Americans that have sighed, said fuck it, and have quit looking altogether. It's nothing more than an estimate and it's a shitty estimate at that.

You do realize that there are multiple unemployment metrics, right?

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

Look at U-4 through U-6.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I hate how much of a disappointment Obama had become, but Romney would have been worse. I live in NC where the GOP has full control over everything and thryrr doing everything they want.

We're going to have a whole generation of people that wont give a fuck about voting after the Obama fraud and childish bickering from both sides though.

 

[KHarvey16]

I don't think it's possible to (correctly) deny that things are worse now than they were when BHO began his second term. That doesn't mean they would have been better with Romney in charge, though, although I think there's a decent chance that they would be ever so slightly better.

Why?

 

[ThisWreckage]

The stats are there... But they prove to opposite. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics the US has gained far more full time jobs over part time when you compare 2009 to 2013. You're buying into Republican talking points...

If you think more full time jobs have been created than full time jobs then you are absolutely delusional. An overwhelming amount of the jobs being created have been temp agency jobs, fast food, and retail. Low paying jobs and part time.

 

[Dark Octave]

Government workers are getting furloughed, so that's pretty bad and hasn't happened for decades I believe.

But that's about the only thing I can think of.

 

[captmcblack]

Nothing has gotten worse.

Nothing has gotten too much better (there's been glacially-slow improvement in the economy and in healthcare that most people can't really feel yet), but nothing has gotten worse.

There are things that have happened that are distracting though, like PRISM/Snowden or the Zimmerman trial/race relations, but those aren't really things you can blame on "THANKS OBAMA". There are laws that it would be awesome to force, but none of those things can happen in a government that exists to obstruct the President for (as politically correct as possible) "legacy reasons". There are jobs it would be awesome to increase the amount of or the salaries for, but the people that run those companies and have that money don't want to part with it to create them - irrespective of political ideology.

 

[ThisWreckage]

That should be the mantra of American politics at this point, "Well, nothing has gotten worse." It also misses the point. Things were bad enough as is. Glacial recovery just adds salt to the wounds.

 

[BSsBrolly]

If you think more full time jobs have been created than full time jobs then you are absolutely delusional. An overwhelming amount of the jobs being created have been temp agency jobs, fast food, and retail. Low paying jobs and part time.

I guess it's the BLS that's delusional then, not house Republicans. Don't know about you but I'm more inclined to believe the BLS than the people voting to repeal Obamacare 40 times.

 

[Sanky Panky]

The stats are there... But they prove to opposite. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics the US has gained far more full time jobs over part time when you compare 2009 to 2013. You're buying into Republican talking points...

Unfortunately in this case, Republicans may be correct by focusing on the Quality of jobs created, not the Quantity.

The question of income overall is pretty clear. Not only has the bottom 90% of earners about 1% worse off, but real wages (which should be ultimate driver in an economy) is down considerably.

As for full-time versus part-time jobs, the trend is also quite clear. Since December of 2007, the number of lost full-time jobs is about 10.5 million, which has been counter-balanced by a rise in part-time jobs of 2.8 million.

The record for 2013 solidifies the transformation that has been going on in our economy. Of the 953K jobs created so far in 2013, only 23%, or 222K, were full-time. Part-time jobs? 731K of the 953K total (77%).

Can we blame Obama for this? probably not. We can't congratulate him either since his carte blanche for the Fed to do whatever, has given us record stock market prices solely on the back of doubling our debt.

I'm not Republican or conservative. I just have a deep-rooted belief that shit is fucked up today, just as it was after 2008... or even worse because people are focusing on the entire wrong things.

 

[ThisWreckage]

I guess it's the BLS that's delusional then, not house Republicans. Don't know about you but I'm more inclined to believe the BLS than the people voting to repeal Obamacare 40 times.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/part-time-work-july-jobs_n_3700930.html?utm_hp_ref=business

Pretty cut and dry to me.

 

[LosDaddie]

Stay losing, Romney.

If you think more full time jobs have been created than full time jobs then you are absolutely delusional. An overwhelming amount of the jobs being created have been temp agency jobs, fast food, and retail. Low paying jobs and part time.

:lol
Weren't you crying about how 2nd interviews for good jobs were a waste of time?

It's no surprise you have these opinions.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Stay losing, Romney.




:lol
Weren't you crying about how 2nd interviews for good jobs were a waste of time?

It's no surprise you have these opinions.

What I'm saying is fact. It's becoming increasingly clear that this is a uphill battle. People are completely overlooking evidence being thrown in their faces. I'll leave the delusion to you all because I frankly have better things to do with my life than argue with apologist brick walls.

 

[mustafa]

Why?

BHO's second term has set the bar so incredibly low that it's hard NOT to do better. For one thing, I think the de-funding of the NSA's ability to spy on Americans amendment would have passed because house Democrats would have almost unanimously been in outrage over it.

 

[@____@]

Unfortunately in this case, Republicans may be correct by focusing on the Quality of jobs created, not the Quantity.

The question of income overall is pretty clear. Not only has the bottom 90% of earners about 1% worse off, but real wages (which should be ultimate driver in an economy) is down considerably.

As for full-time versus part-time jobs, the trend is also quite clear. Since December of 2007, the number of lost full-time jobs is about 10.5 million, which has been counter-balanced by a rise in part-time jobs of 2.8 million.

The record for 2013 solidifies the transformation that has been going on in our economy. Of the 953K jobs created so far in 2013, only 23%, or 222K, were full-time. Part-time jobs? 731K of the 953K total (77%).

Can we blame Obama for this? probably not. We can't congratulate him either since his carte blanche for the Fed to do whatever, has given us record stock market prices solely on the back of doubling our debt.

I'm not Republican or conservative. I just have a deep-rooted belief that shit is fucked up today, just as it was after 2008... or even worse because people are focusing on the entire wrong things.

1. Yes, because the doubling of the debt just happened because hey, why not. Couldnt be due to the economic blowup in 2008.

2. Because the debt is actually a problem at its current number. Its not FYI. If the GOP had/wouldn't continue its obstructionist behavior for anything outside of tax cuts the US would have been able to spend much more on infrastructure, jobs, education that would get people back to work, more taxes being paid back into the system and less on UI which would have lowered the debt.

 

[BSsBrolly]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/03/part-time-work-july-jobs_n_3700930.html?utm_hp_ref=business

Pretty cut and dry to me.

I'm not talking about July 2013. I'm talking about the numbers overall. How many full time jobs created vs part time since 2009.

Man you love using huffingtonpost, I'm sure that's because you believe that's where all liberals go for news and its got to be damming or something.

 

[diffusionx]

Unfortunately in this case, Republicans may be correct by focusing on the Quality of jobs created, not the Quantity.

Those are crocodile tears because nothing the GOP proposes would improve that situation. In fact, a lot of what they propose would make the situation worse. In fact their policies have largely led to that situation.

 

[@____@]

BHO's second term has set the bar so incredibly low that it's hard NOT to do better. For one thing, I think the de-funding of the NSA's ability to spy on Americans amendment would have passed because house Democrats would have almost unanimously been in outrage over it.

The GOP couldnt even pass it with their majority! Give me a break. And if it did pass in the House it was DOA with the Senate. And if you actually believe a Pres Romney would be ANY different on matters of security than Obama you're delusional.

 

[Drek]

There is money to fix the infrastructure but he GOP finds any type of spending that isnt on the military or tax cuts as anathema.

An ideal infrastructure model is one where use pays for the service. Why should we need to prop up the national transportation grid with federal aid when it's need is clearly established, a decades proven funding method already exists, and all that is needed to bring this back in line is a re-assessment of gas taxes?

 

[DigitalOp]

None of these people could be the better President. No party, Red nor Blue. What does it matter who does what?

The Dollar is our President. It always was

Its also our religion.

 

[Sanky Panky]

1. Yes, because the doubling of the debt just happened because hey, why not. Couldnt be due to the economic blowup in 2008.

It happened because the government and the Fed chose as their course of action to bail out financial institutions and stop the massive deleveraging that was going on in the shadow banking system. Has it been the right course for our economy? We should judge that after the next collapse due to over-leveraging in spite of fundamentals.

2. Because the debt is actually a problem at its current number. Its not FYI. If the GOP had/wouldn't continue its obstructionist behavior for anything outside of tax cuts the US would have been able to spend much more on infrastructure, jobs, education that would get people back to work, more taxes being paid back into the system and less on UI which would have lowered the debt.

I agree on the GOP obstructionism. Sadly we have a leader that has no pull with them, and is working for the same corporatocracy. The debt is not a problem until the rate for the 10yr reaches 4.5% (debt service for the debt will blow up), and the government keeps digging itself deeper in a hole it can't get out of.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Can we blame Obama for this? probably not. We can't congratulate him either since his carte blanche for the Fed to do whatever, has given us record stock market prices solely on the back of doubling our debt.

Yeah the current strength of the stock market is truly baffling. I'm pretty sure that it will have to correct itself soon.

 

[ThisWreckage]

I'm not talking about July 2013. I'm talking about the numbers overall. How many full time jobs created vs part time since 2009.

Man you love using huffingtonpost, I'm sure that's because you believe that's where all liberals go for news and its got to be damming or something.

You made the stupid mistake of thinking I am a conservative and that is not correct whatsoever. There has not been a net gain in full time jobs since Obama's presidency. Last time I checked, he finally crossed the job creation barrier after the election and most of those jobs have been overwhelmingly part time.

 

[BSsBrolly]

You made the stupid mistake of thinking I am a conservative and that is not correct whatsoever. There has not been a net gain in full time jobs since Obama's presidency. Last time I checked, he finally crossed the job creation barrier after the election and most of those jobs have been overwhelmingly part time.

Right, you're not a conservative. Totally believe you.

Yes, there has been a gain in full time jobs and I'll provide this info when I get to my PC.

 

[Stinkles]

Yeah the current strength of the stock market is truly baffling. I'm pretty sure that it will have to correct itself soon.

There's nothing baffling about it. interest rates are at all time lows, so the stock market is a better place to put many kinds of investment.

 

[airmangataosenai]

If I could do it all over, I certainly wouldn't vote for Obama again.

Or Mitt.

You're part of the problem. Apathy is how we got into this sequester mess which will lead to social safety net programs which keep millions out of destitute poverty. Honestly, we're in a fight for your lives, every time a supposed liberal says something like this I weep. You have to stand for something, throwing up your hands about "Both sides" only serves to help people against your own interests. He's far fro perfect but people who claim they're the same or Obama is worse on cvil liberties lack any sort of historical context, namely that the NSA program started under Bush, Obama did nothing more than not cancel it. If you think a Republican would even give you that much yo're kidding yourself. Even on his worst issues he's better than the alternative, to say nothing of the positive things he's done for civil rights and social services in the face of pressure for budget cuts, something we now have to deal with thanks to the kind of apathy I'm talking about now.

 

[BertramCooper]

I don't think any of us will argue that unemployment is no longer problematic, or that the economic recovery has been absolutely amazing, but I think most would agree that Republican obstructionism has been a primary reason why our rebound has been so anemic.

We should be doing substantial infrastructure projects right now - projects that would provide good work to hundreds of thousands while rebuilding our crumbling bridges and highways. But we're not, because Republicans have successfully convinced much of the nation that we must massively cut government spending in a weak economy. Which is absurd.

This worldwide austerity movement is going to go down in history as a colossal blunder and a complete embarrassment.

 

[LosDaddie]

A lot of how people react to the economy is relative. For example, I just got hired at a better & bigger company with better pay. I start in 2 weeks. If you asked me how the economy was doing, I'd say it's doing a lot better than before Obama became POTUS

Right, you're not a conservative. Totally believe you.

Yes, there has been a gain in full time jobs and I'll provide this info when I get to my PC.

Check out his post history. I think he's just miserable.

 

[entremet]

Romney comes off the sorest loser ever in politics.

 

[Sanky Panky]

I would go ahead and say that it is not austerity, but the belief in the "Wealth Effect" as the way to deal with this crisis, which will go down in history as one of the dumbest fiscal and monetary policy focuses in the history of the world.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Right, you're not a conservative. Totally believe you.

Yes, there has been a gain in full time jobs and I'll provide this info when I get to my PC.

I voted third party. Check my post history. Please do. I love how politics has devolved into pick a side and hurl shit at the other person. I have been a strong advocate for third parties for years and years now. The assumption that anyone that criticizes Obama is somehow a conservative is an absurdity. What a wonderfully divided country we live in.

 

[BSsBrolly]

I voted third party. Check my post history. Please do. I love how politics has devolved into pick a side and hurl shit at the other person. I have been a strong advocate for third parties for years and years now. The assumption that anyone that criticizes Obama is somehow a conservative is an absurdity. What a wonderfully divided country we live in.

I apologize for that, I get the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) you're frustrated but you blame Obama more than anything else. Which is absurd to me. I really feel like the House ran by Republicans are causing most the issues we're facing with jobs.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

I bet you all wish Obama was a Communist now, eh?

 

[ThisWreckage]

I apologize for that, I get the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) you're frustrated but you blame Obama more than anything else. Which is absurd to me. I really feel like the House ran by Republicans are causing most the issues we're facing with jobs.

Absolutely, but that doesn't change the fact that Obama is a socially progressive Republican. It's one reason why I voted third party.

 

[itxaka]

If you don't vote you don't have any right to complain. Every four years we get to make a choice, everyone who shows up has a right to complain. If you don't care enough to even bother voting third party then you need to go away. The guy who voted for the mole people has more of a right to complain than someone who couldn't even be bothered to show up.

Not voting doesn't mean you don't bother. Jesus.

It's about sending a message about what the "democracy" has become. A nonsense ilussion of choice.

 

[RustyNails]

Not voting doesn't mean you don't bother. Jesus.

It's about sending a message about what the "democracy" has become. A nonsense ilussion of choice.

Not voting means you're just a lazy slob that likes complaining on the internet. I'm glad people in Florida that waited 8 hours in line to vote didn't share your childish views.

 

[Averon]

Bitching about the way things are, yet not bothering to take 30 minutes out of your day to vote. I have no respect for such people. Voting is the simplest and easier thing to do to help change things and you're not even bothering to do that.

 

[Tamanon]

Not voting doesn't mean you don't bother. Jesus.

It's about sending a message about what the "democracy" has become. A nonsense ilussion of choice.

Technically a message requires both a sender and receiver, not voting means you don't have a receiver.