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RTTP Final Fantasy XII Thread of best FF ever?!

Fuck yes, OP.

Side note: Easily the best localization in video game history. Alexander O. Smith is a genius.

Matsuno + O. Smith + Sakimoto combinations are the best combinations.
oh hai Tactics Ogre
 
Kitase finished this???
Though it was Kawasu...?

- The first part of the game was gud. Loved Balthier. Loved the town. Loved the world. Loved that dino outside town!
- Missing super weapon because of opening random chest was bad.
- The story was bad.
- The fights improved on some things, but you lost control of other things. Spending time tinkering with gambits wasn't fun. Matching materia and learning skills via jobs was fun.
- Getting lost and then slogging from dungeon to dungeon for no real reason was terrible.

Best? Definitely not. I rank others higher, BUT goddamn me if this game isn't god-tier compared to the mess that was 13.
 
I never understood the criticisms about FFXII's story apart from the speed of the whole (end game spoilers)
destroy Sun Cryst -> Bahamut appears -> Vayne and Venat merge -> the end
. Maybe because it treated the audience with an modicum of intelligence and didn't feel the need to beat people around the head with characters voicing their feelings and motivations every 20 minutes.
 
Amir0x said:
Hunts are the best sidequest in FF history also. Only Triple Triad comes close.

Real talk.
After the story stopped going anywhere, I just pretended that actual story was about completing the hunts. That's basically all I did while occasionally advancing the story to open up newer hunts. I would keep doing the hunts until I got to the one that handed me my ass. That's when I knew it was time to grind some more. Chasing Gilgamesh into the lhusu mines when I really had no business being there at my pitiful levels was pretty funny. And then getting my ass seriously killed by disma as I'm trying to run out...
 
I thought it was an incredible experience and it's my favorite Final Fantasy.

For reference, my second favorite is FFIX.

I think I'll replay those two this month, actually. I've been itching to.


Chromax said:
I really want a HD-remake of this game...with the extra stuff from the internation edition!
Yes, yes, yes!

I still haven't played the international edition... I guess doing so would require: importing, ripping the ISO, and getting that English fan-patch.
 
Without a doubt.

Head and tails the most daring, ambitious, mature, and downright well-made FF game ever made. Nothing comes close.

It was light Square finally woke out of a coma and realized 'Yes! We CAN write a story about something other than teenagers falling in love and saving the world from monsters. YES WE CAN!"
 
Are there any Ivalice titles that are bad? The only one I haven't liked is Tactics Advance, but even then the gameplay was solid, if flawed. FFT, Vagrant Story, and FFXII are seriously some of the best RPGs I've ever played.
 
Kuro Madoushi said:
Matching materia and learning skills via jobs was fun.

Hahaha. Bender Oh, wait, you're serious? Let me laugh even harder.jpg

Learning skills at 1AP a pop took forever and wasn't fun. And the Materia system is by far the worst system in a FF/JRPG I have ever played.
 
Amir0x said:
The thing is all FF storylines are completely terrible. FFXII's was the most tolerable because at least it had top notch voice acting and a phenomenal translation. The fact that it falls apart in the final act like all FFs is nothing surprising to me.

I go in expecting a FF story to be bad. It's everything else I hope succeeds :D
Kinda off topic, Amir, is there ANY video game where you feel like the plot/story//storytelling is fantastic?
 
Die Squirrel Die said:
I never understood the criticisms about FFXII's story apart from the speed of the whole (end game spoilers)
destroy Sun Cryst -> Bahamut appears -> Vayne and Venat merge -> the end
. Maybe because it treated the audience with an modicum of intelligence and didn't feel the need to beat people around the head with characters voicing their feelings and motivations every 20 minutes.
The game just didn't feel right for a supernatural kind of story. The game was too serious for that kind of nonsense with ghosts and crystals. I was looking forward to an epic war story. That's what the opening CG intro got my hyped for.

It seemed the story was developing great until around leviathan. Then it felt like nothing at all happened until the very end of the game.

For reference, my second favorite is FFIX.
Can you imagine if they remade FFIX using the FFXII engine? I could actually play the game that way without ripping out my eyeballs because of the stupidly slow battles.
 
It has, unquestionably, the best writing and voice work of any main series Final Fantasy game. However, the decisions to model the gameplay after MMOs and to replace Baasch with Vaan as the main character (player-controlled character for the sticklers) hurt the design more than it helped.
 
TheSeks said:
Hahaha. Bender Oh, wait, you're serious? Let me laugh even harder.jpg

Learning skills at 1AP a pop took forever and wasn't fun. And the Materia system is by far the worst system in a FF/JRPG I have ever played.
I think the magicite system in FF6 is my least favorite system in the series. I don't really like how they affect stat growth instead of stats. I definitely prefer materia to it, although when you think about it, they aren't really vastly different from each other.
 
Ghost_Protocol said:
It has, unquestionably, the best writing and voice work of any main series Final Fantasy game. However, the decisions to model the gameplay after MMOs and to replace Baasch with Vaan as the main character (player-controlled character for the sticklers) hurt the design more than it helped.


Disagree with the first part. I love the pseudo MMO gameplay. Gets rid of much of the tedium of a normal FF game, if that's my desire.

Vaan wasn't the main character for me. Just a vessel through which the story was told. he doesn't really get any more or less screen time than any other character in the game.
 
Amir0x said:
The thing is all FF storylines are completely terrible. FFXII's was the most tolerable because at least it had top notch voice acting and a phenomenal translation. The fact that it falls apart in the final act like all FFs is nothing surprising to me.

I go in expecting a FF story to be bad. It's everything else I hope succeeds :D

Final Fantasy VII? X? You didn't think those stories were good? Serious question.

XII's VO was really good though!
 
Amir0x said:
The key to all the arguments is... you can CHOOSE to limit your character if you want in these games. That's the beauty. It's up to you. If you want your character to only be proficient in one class, more to you!

I'll make my character a demi-God, thank you very much.
I usually hate open-ended character development systems, but with FFXII I limited myself and enjoyed it much more. I had Basch as a Dark Knight (attack and black magic), Penelo as a Paladin (white magic, sword and board, and protection), etc. It was great fun. The only thing about this battle system I didn't like was the limitations on gambits. Why unlock 70% or 60%? Just have them available.

That said, I LOVE FFXII's battle system. I'd give my right arm for it to be recycled and reused in something else with improvements.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
Kinda off topic, Amir, is there ANY video game where you feel like the plot/story//storytelling is fantastic?

It's very rare. The ones I admire are generally the ones that tell a story with few words, because there are almost no talented writers in the industry. But there was Grim Fandango, Full Throttle, there was Planescape Torment, there is Mother 2 and 3, Shadow of the Colossus, etc. My preference tends to lean toward the games that understand the idea of nuance, where less is more. One doesn't need a twelve hour cutscenes to show the grief of a child for the loss of her mother, for example. A short, melancholy, dialogue-less moment in a mirror is more than enough to say it all (Mother 3).

Games are a visual medium. So few games actually utilize the visuals to tell the story. They think gamers are retards and so they must be smacked across the face with every turn of the story, so they are beat over the head with the obvious themes and one dimensional characters and scenarios.

legacyzero said:
Final Fantasy VII? X? You didn't think those stories were good? Serious question.

Oh my no dude. FFVII's story is without a doubt offensively bad. None of it makes any sense, and the writing...dear God. I don't know Japanese but the English version is so full of fucked up shit that whatever sense the story might have made at one point is gone to North American audiences. Somehow I suspect it sucks just as much in Japanese, though. FFX is just a complete mess. But none of them are as bad as FFVIII, at least.

Macstorm said:
The only thing about this battle system I didn't like was the limitations on gambits. Why unlock 70% or 60%? Just have them available.

TOTALLY agree. Since it's such an integral part of controlling your teammates, it is necessary they should all be unlocked immediately. Also, with a future gambit game, they needed a few more commands available for slightly more nuanced play.

But it is such an incredible foundation for Ally A.I. that it should become the gold standard if SquareEnix ever comes to their senses and stops letting Nomura develop FFVersusXIII for fifteen years.
 
Really great FF and amazing game. I replayed the game for the third time last month (the IZJS) and I had a great time. Some of the characters are really different from the usual FF protagonists and this is probably why I liked some of them so much (especially Balthier and Basch).

The game captured the feeling of exploration pretty well. You can try to venture in many different areas you aren't supposed to go in the story at your leisure and (at your risks!). The customization system of the vanilla XII is weak since you can pretty much gives healing magic to everyone and make everyone clones of each others but IZJS did improve the formula a bit with the job system even if it's far from perfect.

One major letdown of the game is the lack of an in game encyclopedia for the bazaar recipes and the item drops. A huge emphasis of the game is on loots and the bazaar system and yet those are obscure and you need a guide for them. Like other have said, the story is also pretty terrible. It failed at developing all of the characters well and failed at having a complex military/political plot.

It's a fun game to replay since you can totally change your team (even more in IZJS) abilities and builds. V and XII are my favorite to replay for this reason.
 
I'd like to see an actual job system in FFXV. Make the boards nice and large so you're actually still going to it end-game/post-game. Maybe have it so each character fits a job type (Mage, Thief, Knight etc) and don't allow mixing. I'd love that.
 
Amir0x said:
They think gamers are retards and so they must be smacked across the face with every turn of the story, so they are beat over the head with the obvious themes and one dimensional characters and scenarios.

Have you played Radiant Historia? I feel exactly the way you do about that stuff and was very pleasantly surprised to find none of it in that game.
 
This is the only mainline FF on console I never finished. I'm not counting the DS FF 3 remake. It's not because I didn't like it, but because it came out when I was trapped in my three year WoW addiction. I should see if I can scoop it up on Goozex some time.
 
BlueTsunami said:
I'd like to see an actual job system in FFXV. Make the boards nice and large so you're actually still going to it end-game/post-game. Maybe have it so each character fits a job type (Mage, Thief, Knight etc) and don't allow mixing. I'd love that.
Unless they put in a system to switch jobs mid battle like X-2, this would probably be the first FF game I just plain skip in a long time.

I hate locked in systems that don't allow me the choice of how to build the character.
 
Ghost_Protocol said:
Have you played Radiant Historia? I feel exactly the way you do about that stuff and was very pleasantly surprised to find none of it in that game.

check the official topic for Radiant Historia. Check what the thread title says ;)
 
Vamphuntr said:
Really great FF and amazing game. I replayed the game for the third time last month (the IZJS) and I had a great time. Some of the characters are really different from the usual FF protagonists and this is probably why I liked some of them so much (especially Balthier and Basch).

The game captured the feeling of exploration pretty well. You can try to venture in many different areas you aren't supposed to go in the story at your leisure and (at your risks!). The customization system of the vanilla XII is weak since you can pretty much gives healing magic to everyone and make everyone clones of each others but IZJS did improve the formula a bit with the job system even if it's far from perfect.

One major letdown of the game is the lack of an in game encyclopedia for the bazaar recipes and the item drops. A huge emphasis of the game is on loots and the bazaar system and yet those are obscure and you need a guide for them. Like other have said, the story is also pretty terrible. It failed at developing all of the characters well and failed at having a complex military/political plot.

It's a fun game to replay since you can totally change your team (even more in IZJS) abilities and builds. V and XII are my favorite to replay for this reason.
I really liked this semi-open world aspect. And it's open right from the beginning with the eastersand, westersand and giza plains open to explore. I also remember when you're going through salikawood you can either go straight to the phon coast or be a boss and kill the bomb king to get to the nabudis deadlands. The game doesn't tell you to do anything. It's completely up to you, and you can always return to complete unfinished quests later.
 
Kuro Madoushi said:
Kitase finished this???
Though it was Kawasu...?

- The first part of the game was gud. Loved Balthier. Loved the town. Loved the world. Loved that dino outside town!
- Missing super weapon because of opening random chest was bad.
- The story was bad.
- The fights improved on some things, but you lost control of other things. Spending time tinkering with gambits wasn't fun. Matching materia and learning skills via jobs was fun.
- Getting lost and then slogging from dungeon to dungeon for no real reason was terrible.

Best? Definitely not. I rank others higher, BUT goddamn me if this game isn't god-tier compared to the mess that was 13.

Kawasu oversaw the end of the project from what I remember, however the scenarios had already been scripted long before Matsuno left. People complain about Venat and the rest of those ghosty beings, whatever they were, but they forget about the mystical bullshit that was in Vagrant Story and Tactics, especially Tactics.

All in all I liked the story but I think the biggest flaw was Vayne and how they kind of dropped the ball on him. They really built him up to be an unlikeable sonofabitch culminating with him ordering the attack on that shrine in the mountains with the refugees. Then......he disappears. Oh well, it keeps with tradition like Kefka and Sephiroth I guess.
 
Amir0x said:
Oh my no dude. FFVII's story is without a doubt offensively bad. None of it makes any sense, and the writing...dear God. I don't know Japanese but the English version is so full of fucked up shit that whatever sense the story might have made at one point is gone to North American audiences. Somehow I suspect it sucks just as much in Japanese, though. FFX is just a complete mess. But none of them are as bad as FFVIII, at least.
I'd LOVE to hear your justification for that last statement. There is no way on God's green earth that FFVIII's story is worse than FFVII and X. Come the fuck on.
 
H_Prestige said:
I really liked this semi-open world aspect. And it's open right from the beginning with the eastersand, westersand and giza plains open to explore. I also remember when you're going through salikawood you can either go straight to the phon coast or be a boss and kill the bomb king to get to the nabudis deadlands. The game doesn't tell you to do anything. It's completely up to you, and you can always return to complete unfinished quests later.

the only really retarded sidequest in the game is the one for that Zodiac Spear where if you open certain treasure chests it don't show up later except for some super rare drop. That's so ridiculous.
 
NightBlade88 said:
I'd LOVE to hear your justification for that last statement. There is no way on God's green earth that FFVIII's story is worse than FFVII and X. Come the fuck on.
Don't provoke him please!
 
Amir0x said:
It's very rare. The ones I admire are generally the ones that tell a story with few words, because there are almost no talented writers in the industry. But there was Grim Fandango, Full Throttle, there was Planescape Torment, there is Mother 2 and 3, Shadow of the Colossus, etc. My preference tends to lean toward the games that understand the idea of nuance, where less is more. One doesn't need a twelve hour cutscenes to show the grief of a child for the loss of her mother, for example. A short, melancholy, dialogue-less moment in a mirror is more than enough to say it all (Mother 3).

Games are a visual medium. So few games actually utilize the visuals to tell the story. They think gamers are retards and so they must be smacked across the face with every turn of the story, so they are beat over the head with the obvious themes and one dimensional characters and scenarios.



Oh my no dude. FFVII's story is without a doubt offensively bad. None of it makes any sense, and the writing...dear God. I don't know Japanese but the English version is so full of fucked up shit that whatever sense the story might have made at one point is gone to North American audiences. Somehow I suspect it sucks just as much in Japanese, though. FFX is just a complete mess. But none of them are as bad as FFVIII, at least.



TOTALLY agree. Since it's such an integral part of controlling your teammates, it is necessary they should all be unlocked immediately. Also, with a future gambit game, they needed a few more commands available for slightly more nuanced play.

But it is such an incredible foundation for Ally A.I. that it should become the gold standard if SquareEnix ever comes to their senses and stops letting Nomura develop FFVersusXIII for fifteen years.

Cuts deep :(

LOL It certainly could have been better in some areas.
 
legacyzero said:
Final Fantasy VII? X? You didn't think those stories were good? Serious question.

XII's VO was really good though!

I don't want to answer for him, but I'll give my opinions.

FFVII had two amazing, complex, layered characters to carry the game. Cloud and Sephiroth. Their development, interaction, and conflict was captivating. The rest of the story was filled with flat characters, and fairly large plot holes. It was an enjoyable games, had some great themes, but wasn't a well-crafted story.

FFX was just terrible. I don't even want to go into it. Playing that game literally gave me a headache it was so bad.
 
My favorite 3d Final Fantasy and my 2nd favorite one right behind 6.

I loved pretty much everything about this game. I got this when I was playing 11 pretty heavily so I totally understood and loved the battle system, though I felt like it was a stripped version of 11's, with good reason though.

The way the exploration was setup and interconnecting regions was fantastic. I enjoyed the characters as well and never understood the complaints, Their VA and some of the cutscenes... my god. They were so unbelievably awesome.
 
H_Prestige said:
I really liked this semi-open world aspect. And it's open right from the beginning with the eastersand, westersand and giza plains open to explore. I also remember when you're going through salikawood you can either go straight to the phon coast or be a boss and kill the bomb king to get to the nabudis deadlands. The game doesn't tell you to do anything. It's completely up to you, and you can always return to complete unfinished quests later.

I love games like this. With FFXII it means you can steal powerful weapons and amors (and loot) before you're supposed to :)
 
Nightblade88 said:
I'd LOVE to hear your justification for that last statement. There is no way on God's green earth that FFVIII's story is worse than FFVII and X. Come the fuck on.

FFVIII isn't merely worse than FFVII/FFX. It's probably the worst RPG storyline of all fucking time. Worse than Paladin's Quest. It has plot holes the size of fucking planets. Writing so painful that Twilight compares favorably.

G-G-Guardian Forces Made Us Forget
Time Distortion Witch Bitch
HEREZ A PORNO HERUPHERUP
Squall: "..." RINOA: "EXTREMELY OBVIOUS FLIRTING GESTURE" Squall: "I hate you." Rinoa: "I love you for some reason!"
Lunatic Pandora, Blood Tears From Moon, Laguna, non-stop nonsensical insanity.

All culminating in the single worst written, embarrassing moment in the entirety of the franchises history.

No, nothing I can say can do it justice, so just watch it here.

If I reverted in age two decades, did eighteen injections of heroin and spent twelve weeks prior watching Orin High School, Twilight and Dawson's Creek, I still would not have wrote a scene as cringe worthy as that one. Sub-fanfiction.

The entire game is SUB FANFICTION.

Only remotely neat part is Balamb Garden vs. Galbadia Garden.
 
NightBlade88 said:
I'd LOVE to hear your justification for that last statement. There is no way on God's green earth that FFVIII's story is worse than FFVII and X. Come the fuck on.
You obviously haven't played FF8. The game is an embarassment. It's the only game where I literally hated ALL of the characters. I mean ALL of them. Not a single one was badass, cool, or even decent in anyway.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
You obviously haven't played FF8. The game is an embarassment. It's the only game where I literally hated ALL of the characters. I mean ALL of them. Not a single one was badass, cool, or even decent in anyway.

It's almost hard NOT to be condescending when discussing how bad FF8's storyline is. It's one of those games where merely admitting you think it is good is enough to dismiss your entire perspective re: videogame stories.
 
If there was anything I loved about XII, it was the sheer freedom that the combat system provided, especially if I so chose to fight an esper or side boss that I was underleveled for.
 
A truly magnificent game. Beautiful graphics, art, music, gameplay, everything. A favorite of mine. I can spend hours just wandering around and looking at the amazing stuff just everywhere.


Amir0x said:
FFVIII isn't merely worse than FFVII/FFX. It's probably the worst RPG storyline of all fucking time. Worse than Paladin's Quest. It has plot holes the size of fucking planets.

quite literally moons!
 
TacticalFox88 said:
You obviously haven't played FF8. The game is an embarassment. It's the only game where I literally hated ALL of the characters. I mean ALL of them. Not a single one was badass, cool, or even decent in anyway.
I disagree with this statment.

Outside of the retarded Orphange scene, and Squall freaking out about being a memory I really enjoyed the cast.

Also I disagree about Squall not being a bad ass, while he had his issues, it didn't take him to end game to stand up to his rival, he went in kicked his ass then fought the big bad right afterwords.
 
Meh.

People remember FFVII as better than it really was.

People remember FFVIII as worse than it really was.

It wasn't an abomination of a game or storytelling, it was just mediocre.
 
Only good thing about FFVIII was some of the locales. Some of the cities had an upscale, modern look.

I don't think it is the worst FF, not when FFXIII exists. It is the second worst.
 
Fetts_Jets said:
Also, I really, really appreciated how well staged and directed the (in-game) cut-scenes were. Unlike other, more recent, games in the franchise, XII is stylish a sophisticated, while still showing a great deal of restraint.

Case in point:
http://youtu.be/e329dFLZFjU?t=5s
It's just a conversation about something. It doesn't actually show how XII's cutscenes are better or anything. The only thing this show's is that the dialogue of XII is ok.

The Antitype said:
I would still rather play Final Fantasy VIII a hundred times before I would play FFX once.
Well I feel sorry for you.
 
FFXII's dialogue/writing is much better than any other FF. I mean it purely in context of the FF series. It's still mediocre compared to most things. Unfortunately, like all FF games, it was destroyed by some end game desire to have some dude turn into a three stage giant bad guy

Antitype said:
I would still rather play Final Fantasy VIII a hundred times before I would play FFX once.

That'd be true if they eliminated the fucking garbage draw system.

If they got rid of that I might be able to stomach it more than FFX. FFX is so linear it's painful, so FFVIII wins by default against that. But it's hard to say. FFVIII's story is SO bad that I don't think I'd be able to get through it, whereas when I played through FFX again I enjoyed it slightly more than my first playthrough. I doubt that would happen with FF VIII - I tried playing it on PS3 and could not stick with it for more than 2 hours.
 
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