This game, while fun and very open-ended in navigation, contains way too many puzzles that just made me constantly pull out a guide. I haven't done that for a modern game in years. That being said, it's still one of the best Metrovanias I've ever played, just due in part to its open-ended level design and challenge.
I definitely hope La-Mulana 2 provides enough hints.
Definitely one of my favorite games of all time. It's one of the few indie metroidvanias I've played that doesn't feel like it's just retreading what Super Metroid et al did but really feels like its own thing. Which is ironic given the many older games it's directly inspired of.
I think its puzzles are effective because they aren't strictly "video game logic" puzzles in the way other games are. They establish a detailed lore by exposing bits and pieces of the world, and expect the player to use the knowledge they're learning about the game's world and translate it to actual in-game actions. I think a lot of the complaints about the puzzles being "obtuse" come from this extra layer of understanding that it demands from you. You aren't just solving a puzzle from a bunch of hints, you're being fed world building that you must discern the hints from, and then use what you figured out to actually solve the puzzles.
Regarding the title, it's just a coincidence. La-Mulana is simply one of the creator's name backwards in Japanese (Takumi Na-ra-mu-ra = r(l)a-mu-r(l)a-na
I'm very glad you have returned to LM! It sounds like you're making some good progress. I hope you're able to stick with it. As for stumbling upon solutions, I think it happened to me only two or three times throughout the whole game. I don't think that's a bad thing at all. I think in a game this big with a tremendous amount of puzzles, it's just going to happen occasionally. I wouldn't let that discourage you.
You can definitely beat that miniboss as you are now, but it's difficult. You can choose whether to brute force it now or come back later.
As for the sun puzzle, here's another hint if you want it:
Definitely one of my favorite games of all time. It's one of the few indie metroidvanias I've played that doesn't feel like it's just retreading what Super Metroid et al did but really feels like its own thing. Which is ironic given the many older games it's directly inspired of.
I think its puzzles are effective because they aren't strictly "video game logic" puzzles in the way other games are. They establish a detailed lore by exposing bits and pieces of the world, and expect the player to use the knowledge they're learning about the game's world and translate it to actual in-game actions. I think a lot of the complaints about the puzzles being "obtuse" come from this extra layer of understanding that it demands from you. You aren't just solving a puzzle from a bunch of hints, you're being fed world building that you must discern the hints from, and then use what you figured out to actually solve the puzzles.
Regarding the title, it's just a coincidence. La-Mulana is simply one of the creator's name backwards in Japanese (Takumi Na-ra-mu-ra = r(l)a-mu-r(l)a-na
You hit the nail on the head here in your description of the puzzles. LM's puzzles aren't tacked on. There's no clear delineation between the game's world and its puzzles; they are fundamentally connected, and solving puzzles means you're also learning about the world of the game. It's completely brilliant.
Glamour achievements are for potential future playthroughs, I just want to actually succeed at beating this damn thing!
Good news, I've beaten my fourth guardian!
Bahamut from the Spring in the Sky
was a real pain in the ass... until he slowly wasn't. I still think the hitboxes for damage registration as well as the collision hurtboxes for each boss in this game is fucking stupid and out of control, but I felt like a big smartie when I realized
his diving charge attack ISN'T just a complete waste of your time: you can hit him right before he hits the water! Ironically enough, this makes the Caltrops a FANTASTIC subweapon to use against him, since there's no floor for them to fall on and hurt you, you're almost constantly fighting the pull of the river 90% of the time, AND hitting him with your whip is... dodgy at best.
I legit hope they improve the boss design in the next game, they seem to be clear weakpoints in the game's design so far. Incredibly simplistic attack patterns AND bizarre hitboxes and collision just makes me want to die...
Woo, more La-Mulana fans are showing up! I was worried this thread wouldn't gain much traction, but here we are on page 2.
I'm very glad you have returned to LM! It sounds like you're making some good progress. I hope you're able to stick with it. As for stumbling upon solutions, I think it happened to me only two or three times throughout the whole game. I don't think that's a bad thing at all. I think in a game this big with a tremendous amount of puzzles, it's just going to happen occasionally. I wouldn't let that discourage you.
You can definitely beat that miniboss as you are now, but it's difficult. You can choose whether to brute force it now or come back later.
As for the sun puzzle, here's another hint if you want it:
I opted for coming back later since I'm actually starting to collect seal stones now! I much prefer retreading old ground and scrounging up what I've missed...
...
So attacking the sun like it was a hidden wall was supposed to be something you were supposed to ASSUME? Bleh. That leaves a sour taste in my mouth... I'll leave that for later, I want to see if taking care of the more obvious stuff makes things clearer later on...
also time for me to ask for help on one of the baby puzzles
The Gate of Guidance has a tablet that says "Offer 3 lights to the heavens." I assume this means use the flare gun 3 times in a row in someplace... but since there's no real context for WHERE in the room to use it, I just blew a bunch of flare gun ammo. Is there something else I'm supposed to unlock there first and THEN I'm supposed to fire it at something? Or is the location for that solution not even inside of the Gate???
Definitely one of my favorite games of all time. It's one of the few indie metroidvanias I've played that doesn't feel like it's just retreading what Super Metroid et al did but really feels like its own thing. Which is ironic given the many older games it's directly inspired of.
I think its puzzles are effective because they aren't strictly "video game logic" puzzles in the way other games are. They establish a detailed lore by exposing bits and pieces of the world, and expect the player to use the knowledge they're learning about the game's world and translate it to actual in-game actions. I think a lot of the complaints about the puzzles being "obtuse" come from this extra layer of understanding that it demands from you. You aren't just solving a puzzle from a bunch of hints, you're being fed world building that you must discern the hints from, and then use what you figured out to actually solve the puzzles.
Regarding the title, it's just a coincidence. La-Mulana is simply one of the creator's name backwards in Japanese (Takumi Na-ra-mu-ra = r(l)a-mu-r(l)a-na
While that's true, I distinctly remember there was one puzzle that a strategy guide I had used basically said, "Look, here's the answer, I don't know why it's the answer, and no one I've asked knows where the first person who figured it out, or how they figured it out"
It also really, really sucked that the Whip upgrades were behind single attempt puzzles.
So attacking the sun like it was a hidden wall was supposed to be something you were supposed to ASSUME? Bleh. That leaves a sour taste in my mouth... I'll leave that for later, I want to see if taking care of the more obvious stuff makes things clearer later on...
also time for me to ask for help on one of the baby puzzles
The Gate of Guidance has a tablet that says "Offer 3 lights to the heavens." I assume this means use the flare gun 3 times in a row in someplace... but since there's no real context for WHERE in the room to use it, I just blew a bunch of flare gun ammo. Is there something else I'm supposed to unlock there first and THEN I'm supposed to fire it at something? Or is the location for that solution not even inside of the Gate???
Good job with Bahamut. He's pretty annoying until you figure out some strats. As for the
sun puzzle, I dunno mang. The first time I saw it years ago I smacked it since it looked suspicious. Take advantage of the eye of retribution's absence when you notice it.
While that's true, I distinctly remember there was one puzzle that a strategy guide I had used basically said, "Look, here's the answer, I don't know why it's the answer, and no one I've asked knows where the first person who figured it out, or how they figured it out"
It also really, really sucked that the Whip upgrades were behind single attempt puzzles.
Nice avatar. I seriously regret not pre-ordering that statue.
There is a way to undo those one-time puzzles, but figuring out how on your own is quite a doozy, and I definitely didn't figure it out on my own. Plus, it's a lesson to save frequently, and also stagger your saves. If you fail one of those two puzzles, just reset if you haven't done too much since last saving.
What seemingly impossible puzzle are you referring to? Outside of
unlocking Hell Temple, there are hints *somewhere* for every puzzle. It's still pretty fresh in my mind so I can probably help explain the one you're talking about. Which puzzle was it?
I remember hearing about this game and Cave Story at about the same time, with several people warning me about how hard they were.
I played Cave Story (Wii Ware) first and broke it in half. Fun, but they oversold the challenge.
Then I move d on to La Mulana (also WiiWare), and
I used to think I was pretty good at video games. But 5 hours in, and La Mulana was like lol, you thought and proceeded to school me like I was 8 years old again, picking a controller for the first time.
But you know what? I refuse to accept that defeat. This thread has got me fired up to try again.
So I have the WiiWare and Steam versions. I see the vita version is on sale? Is it PSTV compatible? Any reason to triple dip? Or just stick to the Steam version? Has anyone tried playing with the Steam controller? I imagine that its d-pad would be problematic.
It's an utterly exhausting game in the best way possible. A cerebral challenge unlike no other. I don't think anything really compares in terms of challenge. It straight up might be the hardest game I've played and that includes stuff like NG2 survival mode, a Thracia 776 Ranked Run and all sorts of bullshit.
I don't expect LM2 to be as unforgiving, but it may be for the best personally. I'd honestly only want an experience like La Mulana once. I love the approach to game design here but it's not something I'd want to go back too.
Good job with Bahamut. He's pretty annoying until you figure out some strats. As for the
sun puzzle, I dunno mang. The first time I saw it years ago I smacked it since it looked suspicious. Take advantage of the eye of retribution's absence when you notice it.
As for your second spoiler,
You're on the right track, but come back later.
Nice avatar. I seriously regret not pre-ordering that statue.
There is a way to undo those one-time puzzles, but figuring out how on your own is quite a doozy, and I definitely didn't figure it out on my own. Plus, it's a lesson to save frequently, and also stagger your saves. If you fail one of those two puzzles, just reset if you haven't done too much since last saving.
What seemingly impossible puzzle are you referring to? Outside of
unlocking Hell Temple, there are hints *somewhere* for every puzzle. It's still pretty fresh in my mind so I can probably help explain the one you're talking about. Which puzzle was it?
Thank you! Cordelia is indeed quite awesome!
The Two Fools puzzle in the Gate of Illusions. I mean, the hint was right freaking there, but the solution was totally out in left field.
I remember hearing about this game and Cave Story at about the same time, with several people warning me about how hard they were.
I played Cave Story (Wii Ware) first and broke it in half. Fun, but they oversold the challenge.
Then I move d on to La Mulana (also WiiWare), and
I used to think I was pretty good at video games. But 5 hours in, and La Mulana was like ‘lol, you thought' and proceeded to school me like I was 8 years old again, picking a controller for the first time.
But you know what? I refuse to accept that defeat. This thread has got me fired up to try again.
So I have the WiiWare and Steam versions. I see the vita version is on sale? Is it PSTV compatible? Any reason to triple dip? Or just stick to the Steam version? Has anyone tried playing with the Steam controller? I imagine that its ”d-pad" would be problematic.
I'd say the Vita version is the best one, partially because of some updated translations (and it makes the beginning a smidge less obtuse), but also because it runs at native res with no blurry pixels.
In fact, I'm gonna go charge my Vita that's been sitting dead for like a year.
I remember hearing about this game and Cave Story at about the same time, with several people warning me about how hard they were.
I played Cave Story (Wii Ware) first and broke it in half. Fun, but they oversold the challenge.
Then I move d on to La Mulana (also WiiWare), and
I used to think I was pretty good at video games. But 5 hours in, and La Mulana was like ‘lol, you thought' and proceeded to school me like I was 8 years old again, picking a controller for the first time.
But you know what? I refuse to accept that defeat. This thread has got me fired up to try again.
So I have the WiiWare and Steam versions. I see the vita version is on sale? Is it PSTV compatible? Any reason to triple dip? Or just stick to the Steam version? Has anyone tried playing with the Steam controller? I imagine that its ”d-pad" would be problematic.
I'm glad this thread has inspired you to return to La-Mulana! I would avoid the WiiWare version since you have other options. It cuts out a really cool piece of content in the non-Japanese version, which is utter insanity. Every other version in every region has that piece of content. If you can, I would say drop the four bucks on the Vita release. It tweaks a couple puzzles and adds a bestiary that fills up as you encounter enemies and NPCs. There's an entry for every person and enemy in the game with a short flavor description as well as a couple stats. Plus, most of the enemies get a nice piece of art exclusive to the Vita bestiary. It's not essential, and if you don't want to triple-dip, the Steam version is more than adequate. Dunno about the controller though, sorry. I saw that controller's reveal a couple years ago and it completely turned me off.
Thank you! Cordelia is indeed quite awesome!
The Two Fools puzzle in the Gate of Illusions. I mean, the hint was right freaking there, but the solution was totally out in left field.
I had just beat the 7th Guardian on the PC version last spring before school went into overdrive and haven't picked up the game since, but yeah it's pretty amazing. I love the way things open up as you push further, games that look "innocent" on the surface but hide secrets all over like this always win me over. It's very satisfying when you get a new item to help with exploration, too.
The only puzzle I remember that stumped me cold to do with getting the
Fruit of Eden
. Ugh I felt dumb.
Think I'm going to load it up and head out for the 8th Guardian now.
EDIT: Oh man I forgot about this platforming section in
While that's true, I distinctly remember there was one puzzle that a strategy guide I had used basically said, "Look, here's the answer, I don't know why it's the answer, and no one I've asked knows where the first person who figured it out, or how they figured it out"
It also really, really sucked that the Whip upgrades were behind single attempt puzzles.
Oh believe me, what I said wasn't meant to imply that some puzzles weren't legitimately obtuse. The remake in particular had a few that were quite eyebrow-raising once I stumbled on the solution. And of course there's the mantras, but that's supposed to be the final "big" puzzle of the game, so I can forgive it a bit.
Of course there's also Hell, where the game just throws complete nonsense at you and laughs maniacally as you cry in a corner helpless as to what is even happening.
Honestly I never thought the game was particularly challenging as a platformer? Most enemies die in one or two hits and (rather uniquely) there aren't really any bottomless pits.
The real challenge is how utterly insane areas like the Gate of Illusion and the Chamber of Birth are, and I suspect most people who play will end up googling solutions.
Glamour achievements are for potential future playthroughs, I just want to actually succeed at beating this damn thing!
Good news, I've beaten my fourth guardian!
Bahamut from the Spring in the Sky
was a real pain in the ass... until he slowly wasn't. I still think the hitboxes for damage registration as well as the collision hurtboxes for each boss in this game is fucking stupid and out of control, but I felt like a big smartie when I realized
his diving charge attack ISN'T just a complete waste of your time: you can hit him right before he hits the water! Ironically enough, this makes the Caltrops a FANTASTIC subweapon to use against him, since there's no floor for them to fall on and hurt you, you're almost constantly fighting the pull of the river 90% of the time, AND hitting him with your whip is... dodgy at best.
I legit hope they improve the boss design in the next game, they seem to be clear weakpoints in the game's design so far. Incredibly simplistic attack patterns AND bizarre hitboxes and collision just makes me want to die...
EDIT:
I opted for coming back later since I'm actually starting to collect seal stones now! I much prefer retreading old ground and scrounging up what I've missed...
...
So attacking the sun like it was a hidden wall was supposed to be something you were supposed to ASSUME? Bleh. That leaves a sour taste in my mouth... I'll leave that for later, I want to see if taking care of the more obvious stuff makes things clearer later on...
also time for me to ask for help on one of the baby puzzles
The Gate of Guidance has a tablet that says "Offer 3 lights to the heavens." I assume this means use the flare gun 3 times in a row in someplace... but since there's no real context for WHERE in the room to use it, I just blew a bunch of flare gun ammo. Is there something else I'm supposed to unlock there first and THEN I'm supposed to fire it at something? Or is the location for that solution not even inside of the Gate???
Thing was, I didn't even know that was a thing and thought he was just a tough-ass boss I shoulda saved for later! Who can tell with this game! lol
GJ on Spring in the Sky; I remember that being the only zone I aced in one go from having all the necessary tools before entering. I'd say it's about as hard as Guidance in the scale of the game and unlike the GoG, it's not something you CANT do in one go.
Honestly I never thought the game was particularly challenging as a platformer? Most enemies die in one or two hits and (rather uniquely) there aren't really any bottomless pits.
The real challenge is how utterly insane areas like the Gate of Illusion and the Chamber of Birth are, and I suspect most people who play will end up googling solutions.
Ok, got home and played about 20 min before bed. My thoughts:
Graphically, the Steam version doesn't look that much better than the WiiWare one. Disappointing. Then again I am streaming to my TV via Steam link, so that may be a factor.
The Steam controller's d-pad was surprisingly useable! Percise, responsive. Oddly better than the Wii Remote in that regard (Wii remote tended to read a lot of erroneous diagonals). But I noticed it seemed to take a lot more pressure to hold it down than other controllers. Might get fatiguing in longer play sessions. Tried flipping the controller to touch instead of click, but that proved to be a mistake as I apparently never fully remove my thumb from the d-pad.
Thinking I might as well triple dip on the vita version via PSTV. The DS3 I have paired to it would be easier on my hand, and I won't be bogarting both the TV and the computer to play it. And the standby feature wil come in handy if I have to stop before reaching a save point.
Oh yeah, there's no doubt that at least a few of the puzzles are bullshit, haha. So I'm a bit conflicted with LM2. Being a bit more thoughtful in placing hints and providing clues for what puzzles they relate to could make it a "better" experience technically, but part of what I love so much about LM is how unabashed it is about being cruel. It's completely antithetical to most modern gaming philosophies and it jives so perfectly with me. I like the insanity of it.
In many ways, all a puzzle is is acquiring information and using the information available to deduce the correct action to take. Sometimes that information is plain to see, sometimes it has to be deduced from other pieces of information to form an interim step, and sometimes extra information needs to be gleaned from experimentation.
The problem with scattering information too far and wide, though, is that the start point is unclear - at what point do you possess sufficient information to solve the puzzle? That's always a nasty catch-22 - is the problem that you're missing information, or is the problem that you haven't yet had the lightbulb moment?
Ultimately, you can't go too far the other way ("Here is a puzzle. Here's all the information. Knock yourself out!"), either. I'd argue that acquiring the base level of information should arise naturally out of the exploration process, to the extent that a player may make the reasonable assumption that when they have finished exploring an area they have the information they need to open up new areas (new information, new ideas, new locations)
Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly dislike the way La Mulana does things, the cruelty does have a certain appeal! - it's just that I don't think that design serves the puzzles as well as it could.
(All this is excluding brute forcing, which I have strong opinions about, but in short: brute forcing is never good puzzle design in and of itself, but it's sometimes thematically nice to have it as a form of the experimentation phase (think Myst, or the tutorial puzzles of The Witness), so the player really feels like they're learning through means of trial and improvement.)
Those are some dope tracks! I didn't think to check OCR since their indie game offerings are usually pretty...nonexistent, but that's a cool track for sure. Thanks for sharing these. Also, Arumana No Kiseki looks RIGHT up my alley, wow. I consider myself a Famicom aficionado but somehow I haven't heard of this one until now. I'll definitely have to play it now. The name thing is interesting too...
Also considering the puzzle in La-Mulana 2, i was affraid at the beginning too, but the compromise that naramura choose in the last update is pretty cool IMO! Plus you don't have to activate it since it's an app function apprently!
Regarding the title, it's just a coincidence. La-Mulana is simply one of the creator's name backwards in Japanese (Takumi Na-ra-mu-ra = r(l)a-mu-r(l)a-na
You know that you can have many inspirations for a game! Al-Mana and La-Mulana are really similar, plus the fact that the main character is also an indiana jones clone that explore ruins... that's two thing that are similar, so i don't think it's merely a coincidence!
This thread has inspired me to pick this game up again after not playing it for at least a year. We will see if I will actually finish it this time :-\
caught me completely by surprise and actually had me laughing out loud in awe. What a gem of a game. Too bad started relying a bit too much on hints/walkthroughs toward the end when everything just required immense tying together. I never did finish the game either. Will probably go back once I've forgotten some of the puzzles to see if I can beat it on my own.
Too bad started relying a bit too much on hints/walkthroughs toward the end when everything just required immense tying together. I never did finish the game either.
I remember going into the game blind on my first run, and spending entire days just running everywhere to re-read every freaking tablet and trying to figure out how to complete that last part.
Thing was, I didn't even know that was a thing and thought he was just a tough-ass boss I shoulda saved for later! Who can tell with this game! lol
GJ on Spring in the Sky; I remember that being the only zone I aced in one go from having all the necessary tools before entering. I'd say it's about as hard as Guidance in the scale of the game and unlike the GoG, it's not something you CANT do in one go.
I'm not gonna lie, due to the structure of the game it's entirely POSSIBLE to smash your head against tough bosses and succeed. It's just clearly not advised because Lemeza starts out so weak. Can you imagine my shock when I found out people tend to leave
Amphisbaena, the first goddamn boss
until they have like 5 different subweapons, over 150 health and like at least two weapons stronger than the basic whip??? And I just fought him at base level and won because that's what he was balanced for. Even if the movement in LM is kind of really stiff and it makes jumping around a real pain in the dick...
There really isn't a single zone outside of Guidance that I feel like I could clear in the first feasible try. I'm just bouncing around as I rack up sealstones and stuff and seeing the game both open up and resolve itself is really satisfying... for now. Hearing people talk about the end game has me legit spooked though, considering what I've been doing now has felt pretty cryptic...
Good job with Bahamut. He's pretty annoying until you figure out some strats. As for the
sun puzzle, I dunno mang. The first time I saw it years ago I smacked it since it looked suspicious. Take advantage of the eye of retribution's absence when you notice it.
it's finally set in that the game REALLY encourages you to smack everything you can... so long as you don't get zapped back. So many otherwise innocuous walls holding money or things or passageways.
Progress report:
-Got the Grapple Claw, struggled with hints in Moonlight, left it for later because I could finally enter that room in the Inferno Cavern that requires the claw...
-I've been using the Texttrax software to collect a bunch of related hints to Eden? I've got three out of four (what seem to be) hidden dais locations, and I'm wondering where the last one is. One hint was in Spring in the Sky, another was in Inferno, a third might have been in Temple of the Sun/Moonlight...? Where's the last one? And then the quip about opening the chest starting from the 'closest'... closest to WHAT?
-Beat Pazuzu (what an asshole, a good 60% of the fight is staying towards the far wall to be able to avoid his throws and no-telegraph lightning charge) and got the Chain Whip while only activating one of the platforms! I even made sure I didn't have to rely on the Grail to bail myself out!
-Rolled about in the Chamber of Extinction, bought a sizable amount of Flare Gun ammo, beat the Legion-looking thing and nabbed Chakrams!
-Also got the Bronze Mirror which apparently is crazy important.
-I think I've got most of the 'light world' save points found by now?
-Got the Life Seal. Not a big fan of the method and hint for it though. "Proceed through the wall" is a very straightforward way of saying "Break a nonmarked wall, go through it (that part makes sense), and then jump through an invisible platform maze with multiple dropoff points where failure causes you damage, weights lost, light lost, or all of the above. U g h. Was there an item I was supposed to nab beforehand in order to make that part not shitty???
-Surface secrets! The Life Orb at the bottom of the far waterfall (beneath the Birth Seal!) and Mekuri Master! Of note is that they're just hidden behind secret walls with no indication that they're there outside of "well there's walls in my way better blow them all the fuck up"
-I can finally solve that seal based puzzle in Guidance now and holy shit the Crucifix seems really useful. Especially if those swirly things are gonna be in more places outside of the Temple of Moonlight...
I needed tons of internet help for that puzzle.
You need to read the manual to be able to solve it without brute forcing. You need to know how the map screens are connected and as far as I know the only place you can learn it is the manual.
But it really isn't impossible. I watched a friend play through the game with me giving few hints at some points. However, I was very surprised that he figured out how to read the map and solve that puzzle by himself. I only mentioned the importance of reading about the map in the manual. Watching him play it was actually the first time I really understood the logic behind the puzzle.
I needed tons of internet help for that puzzle.
You need to read the manual to be able to solve it without brute forcing. You need to know how the map screens are connected and as far as I know the only place you can learn it is the manual.
But it really isn't impossible. I watched a friend play through the game with me giving few hints at some points. However, I was very surprised that he figured out how to read the map and solve that puzzle by himself. I only mentioned the importance of reading about the map in the manual. Watching him play it was actually the first time I really understood the logic behind the puzzle.
No problem. There's also a manual for the original version floating around. Shouldn't be too hard to find. You don't need to read it if you've got the remake and its manual, but it does have unique art, if you're into that.
No problem. There's also a manual for the original version floating around. Shouldn't be too hard to find. You don't need to read it if you've got the remake and its manual, but it does have unique art, if you're into that.
-More or less explored the Temple of Moonlight to the best of my current ability
-Opened up the path to Anubis. Oddly enough I've felt like the whole temple's been refreshingly straightforward. I guess I was also lucky enough to have JUST the right hint for the 'pierce her heart' puzzle, and that's just dandy.
-Proceeded to waste a whole bunch of time fighting Anubis and wondering where the damage was going. In retrospect I guess the sound should have tipped me off, but considering he's the ONLY enemy so far that glows BLUE when hit I thought there was a outer shield or something I had to take out. Warped out before I died, ended up glancing at the wiki article for like a second and being "oh it's just right fucking there"
-Even though there is a hint that tells you you need the Book of the Dead in order to defeat Anubis (a hint I only found AFTER beating him) it doesn't say WHERE it is. Thankfully I headed over to Mulbruk who just has it. Don't know how I feel about this but I'll GLADLY take progress.
-Went to Anubis, whooped his ass, Serpent Staff get, up to the surface I go, Argus is down, INCOMING BEST ITEM IN THE GAME HOLY SHIT
-Headed to Graveyard of the Giants since I couldn't move elsewhere. Went around and did shit. Thanks to the feather I nabbed the Gauntlet, and that's fucking rad. Also starting to really feel the thirst for backside field warping. Where the fuck is it???
-Found the last hint to Eden in the Graveyard, laughed out at myself and slowly got to work.
-Thank god for Texttrax, I managed to compile everything together. Took a series of weights and some blatant trial and error but I DID manage to nab the Fruit of Eden without using a guide!!!
-Oh. Oh of course. Hey guys I think I might take a little bit of a break for now if THIS is what I'm gonna do next! Why the fuck is getting backside warping so delayed???
-More or less explored the Temple of Moonlight to the best of my current ability
-Opened up the path to Anubis. Oddly enough I've felt like the whole temple's been refreshingly straightforward. I guess I was also lucky enough to have JUST the right hint for the 'pierce her heart' puzzle, and that's just dandy.
-Proceeded to waste a whole bunch of time fighting Anubis and wondering where the damage was going. In retrospect I guess the sound should have tipped me off, but considering he's the ONLY enemy so far that glows BLUE when hit I thought there was a outer shield or something I had to take out. Warped out before I died, ended up glancing at the wiki article for like a second and being "oh it's just right fucking there"
-Even though there is a hint that tells you you need the Book of the Dead in order to defeat Anubis (a hint I only found AFTER beating him) it doesn't say WHERE it is. Thankfully I headed over to Mulbruk who just has it. Don't know how I feel about this but I'll GLADLY take progress.
-Went to Anubis, whooped his ass, Serpent Staff get, up to the surface I go, Argus is down, INCOMING BEST ITEM IN THE GAME HOLY SHIT
-Headed to Graveyard of the Giants since I couldn't move elsewhere. Went around and did shit. Thanks to the feather I nabbed the Gauntlet, and that's fucking rad. Also starting to really feel the thirst for backside field warping. Where the fuck is it???
-Found the last hint to Eden in the Graveyard, laughed out at myself and slowly got to work.
-Thank god for Texttrax, I managed to compile everything together. Took a series of weights and some blatant trial and error but I DID manage to nab the Fruit of Eden without using a guide!!!
-Oh. Oh of course. Hey guys I think I might take a little bit of a break for now if THIS is what I'm gonna do next! Why the fuck is getting backside warping so delayed???
Good work. Don't stop now! You'll get what you want before *too* long, but they definitely do withhold it for longer than you'd expect. Also, here's a general tip -- it's really not a spoiler but it's something to keep in mind:
visit Mulbruk frequently. She has a lot of dialogue.
Good work. Don't stop now! You'll get what you want before *too* long, but they definitely do withhold it for longer than you'd expect. Also, here's a general tip -- it's really not a spoiler but it's something to keep in mind:
visit Mulbruk frequently. She has a lot of dialogue.
Yeah, I noticed. I've been saving almost all of her pertinent conversations in the Texttrax. A lot of them seem like they'd be really useful for mid to late game puzzles but like she only says them once, so either memorize it through repetition or straight up save it because once you walk out it's gone forever. Fuck, at least you can reread tablets (save for the hard mode one obviously). It'd be such a massive QoL improvement if you could just see a list of the conversations you've had with her and whether she has anything new to say... but of course that'd be so against this game's nature I'm not even shocked anymore.
So right now I have two obvious places to go to: either the
Tower of Ruin
or the
Gate of Illusion
. Which one should I blow my asshole up on first???
EDIT: Dammit you lied to me.
I could have gotten the Mirai software as soon as I nabbed the flower, there's an invisible passage right outside the Tower of Ruin entrance that leads to a visible dais, where placing a weight there gives you the ability to teleport around for the hefty fucking cost of a quarter of your max memory, smh... not to mention having it equipped means you CAN'T warp to 'light side' points so you have to constantly re- and un-equip it. That's an absurd amount of hassle for an "upgrade"...
EDIT2: I'm a dumbass, fucking whoops.
If you press down in the warp menu you can switch between light and dark-side warp points. That nullifies that complaint. Still, goddamn, 500MB...
Yeah, I noticed. I've been saving almost all of her pertinent conversations in the Texttrax. A lot of them seem like they'd be really useful for mid to late game puzzles but like she only says them once, so either memorize it through repetition or straight up save it because once you walk out it's gone forever. Fuck, at least you can reread tablets (save for the hard mode one obviously). It'd be such a massive QoL improvement if you could just see a list of the conversations you've had with her and whether she has anything new to say... but of course that'd be so against this game's nature I'm not even shocked anymore.
So right now I have two obvious places to go to: either the
Tower of Ruin
or the
Gate of Illusion
. Which one should I blow my asshole up on first???
EDIT: Dammit you lied to me.
I could have gotten the Mirai software as soon as I nabbed the flower, there's an invisible passage right outside the Tower of Ruin entrance that leads to a visible dais, where placing a weight there gives you the ability to teleport around for the hefty fucking cost of a quarter of your max memory, smh... not to mention having it equipped means you CAN'T warp to 'light side' points so you have to constantly re- and un-equip it. That's an absurd amount of hassle for an "upgrade"...
EDIT2: I'm a dumbass, fucking whoops.
If you press down in the warp menu you can switch between light and dark-side warp points. That nullifies that complaint. Still, goddamn, 500MB...
I gotta say, I'm enjoying reading your progress, and I'm sure your struggles resonate with a lot of LM vets.
I'm sorry that I misled you. I forgot where the item was, and was going based on how long it took me to get it. You got it on your own though, so that's good.
So La-Mulana has an hourglass-shaped difficulty curve, IMO, in that it gets progressively more difficult for a while and then gets a bit easier over time
and then fucks your shit with the optional stuff
. The
Gate of Illusion is the middle of that hourglass. It's a maddening place. But you can do most of it right now, IIRC. You can get a lot done in the Tower of Ruin too though. There's a super useful but optional item in the Gate of Illusion but honestly you probably wouldn't find it without a guide. Do whichever one you want first, but the Gate of Illusion will likely give you more problems. The hints related to it are among the least useful in the game. Let me know if you need any nudges.
I gotta say, I'm enjoying reading your progress, and I'm sure your struggles resonate with a lot of LM vets.
I'm sorry that I misled you. I forgot where the item was, and was going based on how long it took me to get it. You got it on your own though, so that's good.
So La-Mulana has an hourglass-shaped difficulty curve, IMO, in that it gets progressively more difficult for a while and then gets a bit easier over time
and then fucks your shit with the optional stuff
. The
Gate of Illusion is the middle of that hourglass. It's a maddening place. But you can do most of it right now, IIRC. You can get a lot done in the Tower of Ruin too though. There's a super useful but optional item in the Gate of Illusion but honestly you probably wouldn't find it without a guide. Do whichever one you want first, but the Gate of Illusion will likely give you more problems. The hints related to it are among the least useful in the game. Let me know if you need any nudges.
the double jump. After you kill the thunderbird there's nowhere to go that doesn't require you to have another vertical boost!
One point of note, though: apparently the Steam version got... patched today??? Like, now of all days??? It seems to have been in order to fix some crashing issues but I'm shocked the game is even still getting support like this years after release...
I apologize for the double post in advance. The Gate of Illusion is fucking stupid and outright Castlevania 2 levels of hard vagueness.
-
Step 1: scanning the non-blinking blue light. I did this entirely by accident. And I mean COMPLETELY by accident. The corresponding hint... well the only relevant part would have to be "the fool going right without hesitation" but holy jeez.
-
Step 2: Figuring out the warp maze. Fuck this 'puzzle', I had to glance at the wiki for this. The solution is almost expectedly insane. And the clues leading to it are... fucking convoluted at best. Ok, so a wise man will supposedly bend down to search for a single fallen item. That reads to me as "there's a unique item that drops below the level geometry and you have to press down in order to get it". What the game APPARENTLY meant is that you have to navigate the warp maze until you come across a series of four barrels (which took me a WHILE to notice that they were consistently respawning). The leftmost barrel apparently is guaranteed to drop a single shuriken every time you destroy it, while the others are useless. Once again, I thought this was a puzzle where you had to destroy the barrels in a certain order to unlock the way. Apparently the shuriken dropping is SO IMPORTANT that you need to use a currently-up-to-this-point-unused mechanic where after collecting it you fucking Mario-pipe-crawl through the floor in order to find the secret backside of the wall because fuck you. A) Lemeza can do that???? B) You auto-pick up items anyways, this isn't picking up an item again or for the first time! C) Lemeza can't even fucking duck or bend over when you press down in the presence of nothing anyways so like this is actually WORSE than the whole "hit your head against the wall" shit in CV2. Fuck this entire puzzle top to bottom, jesus christ.
Oh yeah and apparently the new wall teleports you to a position immediately behind a portal that ejects you out of the maze so you have to walk THROUGH the wall in order to proceed and not trigger that secret portal. And all THAT leads to is a priest who wants you to fucking LEAVE your progress behind and go solve something that you didn't even know was a puzzle in the first place. Doesn't matter, who cares, finding the treasure was relatively easy compared to that other shit.
And that's where I fucking stopped. Any advice for moving forward?
I apologize for the double post in advance. The Gate of Illusion is fucking stupid and outright Castlevania 2 levels of hard vagueness.
-
Step 1: scanning the non-blinking blue light. I did this entirely by accident. And I mean COMPLETELY by accident. The corresponding hint... well the only relevant part would have to be "the fool going right without hesitation" but holy jeez.
-
Step 2: Figuring out the warp maze. Fuck this 'puzzle', I had to glance at the wiki for this. The solution is almost expectedly insane. And the clues leading to it are... fucking convoluted at best. Ok, so a wise man will supposedly bend down to search for a single fallen item. That reads to me as "there's a unique item that drops below the level geometry and you have to press down in order to get it". What the game APPARENTLY meant is that you have to navigate the warp maze until you come across a series of four barrels (which took me a WHILE to notice that they were consistently respawning). The leftmost barrel apparently is guaranteed to drop a single shuriken every time you destroy it, while the others are useless. Once again, I thought this was a puzzle where you had to destroy the barrels in a certain order to unlock the way. Apparently the shuriken dropping is SO IMPORTANT that you need to use a currently-up-to-this-point-unused mechanic where after collecting it you fucking Mario-pipe-crawl through the floor in order to find the secret backside of the wall because fuck you. A) Lemeza can do that???? B) You auto-pick up items anyways, this isn't picking up an item again or for the first time! C) Lemeza can't even fucking duck or bend over when you press down in the presence of nothing anyways so like this is actually WORSE than the whole "hit your head against the wall" shit in CV2. Fuck this entire puzzle top to bottom, jesus christ.
Oh yeah and apparently the new wall teleports you to a position immediately behind a portal that ejects you out of the maze so you have to walk THROUGH the wall in order to proceed and not trigger that secret portal. And all THAT leads to is a priest who wants you to fucking LEAVE your progress behind and go solve something that you didn't even know was a puzzle in the first place. Doesn't matter, who cares, finding the treasure was relatively easy compared to that other shit.
And that's where I fucking stopped. Any advice for moving forward?
I told you the Gate of Illusion was rough! You're making headway though. Just gotta return the treasure to the guy and you should be able to make some more progress for a while. There's another particularly annoying puzzle in this first part of the Gate of Illusion but I'm not sure if you've encountered it yet.
I told you the Gate of Illusion was rough! You're making headway though. Just gotta return the treasure to the guy and you should be able to make some more progress for a while. There's another particularly annoying puzzle in this first part of the Gate of Illusion but I'm not sure if you've encountered it yet.
Got the anchor, used it to move on only to get stopped by ANOTHER key item backtracking quest. The Mini Doll... like, once again, I feel like I stumbled on the solution and wasted a truckload of time. Prove you're tiny. Ok, how? As far as I can tell the only hints relating to it are Xelpud's reaction to the damn thing and that one tablet in the Mausoleum of Giants that taunts you that "thou art tiny, like a little doll." Of course, raising the doll there does nothing so cue me wandering the whole fucking place spamming the item use button in the vague hope that SOMETHING happens. Far as I can tell, the valid area is the only place in the mausoleum that REQUIRES the double jump. I can't read Mulanarunes but apparently raising the doll while standing on that thing was the correct solution? Except when I go back to the Gate of Illusion nothing fucking changed?!?! So I guess maybe something changed in the Mausoleum so I have to fucking go BACK there and if not there then maybe the Graveyard aaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Got the anchor, used it to move on only to get stopped by ANOTHER key item backtracking quest. The Mini Doll... like, once again, I feel like I stumbled on the solution and wasted a truckload of time. Prove you're tiny. Ok, how? As far as I can tell the only hints relating to it are Xelpud's reaction to the damn thing and that one tablet in the Mausoleum of Giants that taunts you that "thou art tiny, like a little doll." Of course, raising the doll there does nothing so cue me wandering the whole fucking place spamming the item use button in the vague hope that SOMETHING happens. Far as I can tell, the valid area is the only place in the mausoleum that REQUIRES the double jump. I can't read Mulanarunes but apparently raising the doll while standing on that thing was the correct solution? Except when I go back to the Gate of Illusion nothing fucking changed?!?! So I guess maybe something changed in the Mausoleum so I have to fucking go BACK there and if not there then maybe the Graveyard aaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
If you're talking about that weird little platform with the electronic stuff in the room with the giant who's supposed to be like Atlas, I dunno what the hell that's for. I never figured it out. You did pretty much everything right though. You just gotta use the doll on a screen where there's a giant, and you should hear a charm.If you did that, then you should be able to progress back in the Gate. The issue is then figuring out what's changed, because it's not tremendously obvious, but your path is no longer blocked.
If you're talking about that weird little platform with the electronic stuff in the room with the giant who's supposed to be like Atlas, I dunno what the hell that's for. I never figured it out. You did pretty much everything right though. You just gotta use the doll on a screen where there's a giant, and you should hear a charm.If you did that, then you should be able to progress back in the Gate. The issue is then figuring out what's changed, because it's not tremendously obvious, but your path is no longer blocked.
Alright, I guess that makes it a little better. Any giant triggers the chime, huh? That's not as terrible as I thought, then. However, I consulted the wiki to find out what exactly changed... and now I'm REALLY confused. You see, I could walk through that illusory wall and teleport to the new location before solving that puzzle. I swear, it totally worked for me! So it really does feel like nothing new happened at all for me...
A question:
I bought the snapshot software from the Tower of Ruin shop a while back, and no matter how hard I try, it can't seem to analyze a goddamn thing. I was personally hoping it would decode that mural in the Chamber of Extinction, but no dice... So what the hell IS it useful on?
and now progress report
-
Back to that new room. Picked up the "extinguish the whole before the one falls" hint and I'm glad to say I figured that out more-or-less correctly. What I totally didn't get was how the wide dais was a trap, and the REAL dais was... the skeleton??? Not gonna lie I looked up a video for that one, where the hell is the hint for that?!
-
On to the weight 'puzzle'. Honestly more my style, but it still fucking infuriated me... mainly because I swear I did it RIGHT and it just didn't fucking trigger. So back to the walkthrough I go... and apparently the puzzle isn't truly solved until you walk out through the one-way door after you place all the weights?! What? WHY??? I feel no shame in looking up help for that, I was fucking robbed! Of like 6 weights!
-
After that... the Gate kinda became... way easier? Like once you hit the room with the three tablets all warning you to leave, the entire dungeon became relatively straightforward. But fuck I'm not gonna complain! Got the Key of Eternity, got the enhanced map software, went back to the Endless Corridor and unlocked the ladder to the second floor... and oh sweet jesus I can't even BEGIN to solve this! I know three symbols out of ten. This drags my playthrough to a halt because I haven't the faintest idea of where to go!
also looking back at the thread I'm sorry for hijacking your RTTP and turning it into my LTTP lol
EDIT: oh shit ok
The small-proving puzzle is actually in order to remove a barrier leading to Chi You AFTER the first half of the dungeon. It's not relevant to pushing through the maze at all! I was wondering why that barrier disappeared when I jumped into it...
I bought the snapshot software from the Tower of Ruin shop a while back, and no matter how hard I try, it can't seem to analyze a goddamn thing. I was personally hoping it would decode that mural in the Chamber of Extinction, but no dice... So what the hell IS it useful on?
I thought the same thing. Don't worry about that mural for now. It's gonna be quite a while until you can do anything with it, but you're right to try and figure out what to scan. All told, I think there are four places you can use that software, and one or two of them are optional. It's not gonna be super obvious where to use them. You're gonna have to look very closely. But once you find one, you'll know what to look for.
And yeah,
the Gate does ease up, but don't worry, you haven't seen all there is to the Gate yet...
And I'm glad you've been posting. Otherwise this thread would probably be dead and I'd have no one to talk about LM with in this sea of AAA game threads.
I thought the same thing. Don't worry about that mural for now. It's gonna be quite a while until you can do anything with it, but you're right to try and figure out what to scan. All told, I think there are four places you can use that software, and one or two of them are optional. It's not gonna be super obvious where to use them. You're gonna have to look very closely. But once you find one, you'll know what to look for.
And yeah,
the Gate does ease up, but don't worry, you haven't seen all there is to the Gate yet...
And I'm glad you've been posting. Otherwise this thread would probably be dead and I'd have no one to talk about LM with in this sea of AAA game threads.
(( FWIW I love the Trauma series and I'm now interested in Distorted Travesty. I frequent some more niche gaming communities that are more tailored to my interests, so GAF often feels stifling to me with how much it's geared towards the cutting edge and AAA gaming. Those sorts of one size fits all games do nothing for me, but I get that most gaffers love them.
Yeah, given the nature of the game I feel like LPs are best after you've beaten the game or after each area. Unless the LPer is actively explaining what they're doing and what tablets relate to the puzzles they're solving, it doesn't make any sense.
It was way to boring and punishing. The game just kills you for investigating the most minor things making you respawn 7 minutes back and slog all the way back to that point to try something else. This is not difficult or challenging, it's just unfair time wasting.
