Gun Animal
Member
Are you saying that people with severe IBS can't be loved?
Do you think Love can bloom on a shitfield?
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RTTP: Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - One last punishment I must endure.
- Thread starter NotTheGuyYouKill
- Start date
Are you saying that people with severe IBS can't be loved?
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Reason for Naomi's Death: Nanomachines subplot pulled out of ass at the last second to reveal that Naomi has kept cancer at bay for years. Otacon has known Naomi for weeks at this point, if that long. Scene ends with Naomi talking to a small robot with Otacon bawling uncontrollably while Naomi deactivates both her nanomachines and Vamp's (Vamp's relation to Naomi is never expanded upon much either). There is no character development. There is no attempted moral to the story. It's drama for the sake of drama.
Reason for Emma's Death: Stabbed by villain character. Root cause for consistently recurring sibling friction is revealed to be dark family history with parents previously touched upon in scenes with Raiden. Otacon has known Emma since adolescence. Death scene ends with Otacon granting Emma's final wish by calling her Emma rather than E.E., a gesture illustrating a development in their relationship. The parrot established earlier in the game says "Hal....I miss you" revealing that a connection between characters was always there. After crying in a second scene, Otacon resolves that you can't expect love to just find you but you must go looking for it (the moral of the story) and goes on to save the hostages, later rejoining Raiden as a regular codec contact.
Both are melodramatic, but one is clearly written worse than the other. Emma is mentioned early on in the Tanker and as Raiden you get to know both her character and relation to Otacon pretty well. She's clumsy, a little catty, and a complete scaredy cat. You can infer she's a "bit of an oddball" just like her brother. She claims to hate Otacon but obviously still has a soft spot for him. If you asked me what Naomi's defining character traits are I would have to respond with "scientist" and "cleavage". Her relation to Otacon is "they are both nerds who had sex in a helicopter". Sunny of all people had a more clear cut relation to Naomi with hints that for a short time Naomi fulfilled a motherly role. Snake has quite an obvious history with Naomi as well. These two characters could've shown more reaction to her death, but Otacon's reaction was just there to draw another pointless fan service parallel to Sniper Wolf.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I got so frustrated, I started playing Metal Gear Rising.
Zombie James
Banned
A very flawed game story-wise, but there's something about it that keeps me coming back year after year. Act IV is one of my top highlights of last generation. Damn that story is a fucking mess, though, it could have been so epic if Kojima would have just held back a little bit.
I actually completely forgot that Naomi had cancer and died in MGS4.
Emma was a nice character, and I did feel bad that she died like that.
Does that mean you failed at your RTTP or succeeded?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I'm playing both.
MGS as a series has always been melodramatic, I love things that are melodramatic.
Emma's death always gets me because Otacon's sadness seems warranted. His family had really messed up drama, and that's a lot easier to be empathetic towards than Naomi choosing to die randomly.
Emma's death always gets me because Otacon's sadness seems warranted. His family had really messed up drama, and that's a lot easier to be empathetic towards than Naomi choosing to die randomly.
Just finished it for the first time. Feeling good really. Everything was nano machines, and Kojima just pulled Big Boss being alive right out of his butthole and barely explained it, but whatever it gave me the feels. Naomi's death was pointless, and seemingly her character too.
Otacon needs to stop acting like a bitch. Crying and whispering every five minutes.
So what happens to Raiden's family? I remember like zero mention of that in Rising.
Enjoyed this game a hell of a lot. Can't wait for MGSV. On to Peace Walker next.
Otacon needs to stop acting like a bitch. Crying and whispering every five minutes.
So what happens to Raiden's family? I remember like zero mention of that in Rising.
Enjoyed this game a hell of a lot. Can't wait for MGSV. On to Peace Walker next.
thesolidshark
Member
fixed
MGS4 is really badly written but despite that I can still appreciate the story, and the characters are still engaging. I like how, as a game, it makes an honest attempt at actually trying to close off the series for good. Too many games have bad endings on account of them leaving the door open for more installments but it's clear that Kojima intended here to go out with a bang. It's a really heartfelt goodbye to the characters and the events we've come to love.
Then Kojima made a bunch of prequels for Big Boss which take away the subtlety of MGS3's perfect ending and expands on a story which isn't interesting to follow anymore since we all know how the story ends. Granted I'll still play MGSV but Peace Walker left a bitter taste in my mouth and I'd rather the Metal Gear series expand it's horizons like in Rising, with new stories about characters that actually have a future.
Then Kojima made a bunch of prequels for Big Boss which take away the subtlety of MGS3's perfect ending and expands on a story which isn't interesting to follow anymore since we all know how the story ends. Granted I'll still play MGSV but Peace Walker left a bitter taste in my mouth and I'd rather the Metal Gear series expand it's horizons like in Rising, with new stories about characters that actually have a future.
So far I've enjoyed every game in the canon timeline, but I really, REALLY hope MGSV is the last game about Big Boss. We've seen enough of him. The game should end with a clear link to the Outer Heaven uprising and be done with the character.
Reason for Naomi's Death: Nanomachines subplot pulled out of ass at the last second to reveal that Naomi has kept cancer at bay for years. Otacon has known Naomi for weeks at this point, if that long. Scene ends with Naomi talking to a small robot with Otacon bawling uncontrollably while Naomi deactivates both her nanomachines and Vamp's (Vamp's relation to Naomi is never expanded upon much either). There is no character development. There is no attempted moral to the story. It's drama for the sake of drama.
Reason for Emma's Death: Stabbed by villain character. Root cause for consistently recurring sibling friction is revealed to be dark family history with parents previously touched upon in scenes with Raiden. Otacon has known Emma since adolescence. Death scene ends with Otacon granting Emma's final wish by calling her Emma rather than E.E., a gesture illustrating a development in their relationship. The parrot established earlier in the game says "Hal....I miss you" revealing that a connection between characters was always there. After crying in a second scene, Otacon resolves that you can't expect love to just find you but you must go looking for it (the moral of the story) and goes on to save the hostages, later rejoining Raiden as a regular codec contact.
Both are melodramatic, but one is clearly written worse than the other. Emma is mentioned early on in the Tanker and as Raiden you get to know both her character and relation to Otacon pretty well. She's clumsy, a little catty, and a complete scaredy cat. You can infer she's a "bit of an oddball" just like her brother. She claims to hate Otacon but obviously still has a soft spot for him. If you asked me what Naomi's defining character traits are I would have to respond with "scientist" and "cleavage". Her relation to Otacon is "they are both nerds who had sex in a helicopter". Sunny of all people had a more clear cut relation to Naomi with hints that for a short time Naomi fulfilled a motherly role. Snake has quite an obvious history with Naomi as well. These two characters could've shown more reaction to her death, but Otacon's reaction was just there to draw another pointless fan service parallel to Sniper Wolf.
I remember finding strange easter eggs with Emma. If you shot her with a tranq, and have Raiden crawl on top of her. She will say (via Kodec) "You Pervert!" "I don't like you!" "Leave Me Alone!"
I was a strange kid, I admit it.
Oh, was it? Weird, dunno why I was thinking Hawaii then. Either way leaving anyone with rose near a large body of water probably isn't a good idea.
NickaWhutt
Banned
Can I skip the cutscenes and the game still be good? Dont give a shit about story in video games.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Absolutely. This game is a lot of fun to mess around in especially if you unlock all the cool gadgets like stealth camo and crazy guns. You might be doing a lot of skipping though lol
Narpas Sword0
Member
You will be done in 3 hours
I highly recommend to NOT skip any cutscenes in Metal Gear games.
Fixed.
PhantomZone
Member
I should play this again at some point, it's been nearly 6 years since i finished it.
I didn't go back to MGS 2 and 3 until i purchased the HD collection last year and enjoyed playing through them again (mostly 3).
I didn't go back to MGS 2 and 3 until i purchased the HD collection last year and enjoyed playing through them again (mostly 3).
AgentOtaku
Member
Reason for Naomi's Death: Nanomachines subplot pulled out of ass at the last second to reveal that Naomi has kept cancer at bay for years. Otacon has known Naomi for weeks at this point, if that long. Scene ends with Naomi talking to a small robot with Otacon bawling uncontrollably while Naomi deactivates both her nanomachines and Vamp's (Vamp's relation to Naomi is never expanded upon much either). There is no character development. There is no attempted moral to the story. It's drama for the sake of drama.
Reason for Emma's Death: Stabbed by villain character. Root cause for consistently recurring sibling friction is revealed to be dark family history with parents previously touched upon in scenes with Raiden. Otacon has known Emma since adolescence. Death scene ends with Otacon granting Emma's final wish by calling her Emma rather than E.E., a gesture illustrating a development in their relationship. The parrot established earlier in the game says "Hal....I miss you" revealing that a connection between characters was always there. After crying in a second scene, Otacon resolves that you can't expect love to just find you but you must go looking for it (the moral of the story) and goes on to save the hostages, later rejoining Raiden as a regular codec contact.
Both are melodramatic, but one is clearly written worse than the other. Emma is mentioned early on in the Tanker and as Raiden you get to know both her character and relation to Otacon pretty well. She's clumsy, a little catty, and a complete scaredy cat. You can infer she's a "bit of an oddball" just like her brother. She claims to hate Otacon but obviously still has a soft spot for him. If you asked me what Naomi's defining character traits are I would have to respond with "scientist" and "cleavage". Her relation to Otacon is "they are both nerds who had sex in a helicopter". Sunny of all people had a more clear cut relation to Naomi with hints that for a short time Naomi fulfilled a motherly role. Snake has quite an obvious history with Naomi as well. These two characters could've shown more reaction to her death, but Otacon's reaction was just there to draw another pointless fan service parallel to Sniper Wolf.
Finally finished MGS4 replay. My god does it still mostly turn to shit after chapter 2.
This post is spot the fuck on too!
Yup. Easily one of the best games of the last generation, and a fitting conclusion to the series. Excellent game.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
The respawning enemies in acts 1 and 2 really piss me off. Other than that I love the game.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
I got so frustrated, I started playing Metal Gear Rising.
RULES OF NATURE!
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Metal Gear is definitely not a series you want to invest your time into if you don't care about story.
MGS4 is just as goofy and self indulgent as the rest of the series. Even with the caliber of storytelling we get with the series there were some perplexing plot decisions.
My only frustration is how awesome everything controls and how many ways there are to do things and then the game really requires any of it from you. And also most of the boss fights noticeably sucked.
Lots of loving attention to the set pieces though: motorcycle ride and final fist fight were really awesome.
I'm actually pretty hyped for Phantom Pain. If it's an extension of the gameplay we saw in Ground Zeroes, I'm entirely on board.
My only frustration is how awesome everything controls and how many ways there are to do things and then the game really requires any of it from you. And also most of the boss fights noticeably sucked.
Lots of loving attention to the set pieces though: motorcycle ride and final fist fight were really awesome.
I'm actually pretty hyped for Phantom Pain. If it's an extension of the gameplay we saw in Ground Zeroes, I'm entirely on board.
AgentOtaku
Member
I never had a problem with MGS4 being self-indulgent. Like, I actually enjoyed replaying things like the fist-fight and such (Ch.3 still VERY much sucks though. Super fucking broken).
I have a problem with the fact the writing is horrid in comparison to the rest of the series because no one dare to question Kojima or whoever else.
I'm guessing people who love this game are those who don't take MGS too seriously, and people who hate this game are those who used to.
I was certainly in the latter camp. I thought MGS1 and MGS3 were legitimate masterpieces, some corny moments aside. I thought MGS2 was daring and courageous. I took the story seriously.
MGS4 shits on all of that. It completely inverts the past and present motivations of a beloved character, making him so convoluted that he's no longer a good character. It has plot twists and explanations that don't feel plausible.
But I've been replaying the series recently, and honestly, the previous games are definitely not masterpieces either. They have some of the same problems MGS4 does, but on a smaller scale. (And strangely, I find myself enjoying MGS2 the most, though maybe that's because I've played 1 and 3 too many times.) So really, I imagine I might enjoy MGS4 more when I play it next, just because I don't take the series seriously anymore.
I was certainly in the latter camp. I thought MGS1 and MGS3 were legitimate masterpieces, some corny moments aside. I thought MGS2 was daring and courageous. I took the story seriously.
MGS4 shits on all of that. It completely inverts the past and present motivations of a beloved character, making him so convoluted that he's no longer a good character. It has plot twists and explanations that don't feel plausible.
But I've been replaying the series recently, and honestly, the previous games are definitely not masterpieces either. They have some of the same problems MGS4 does, but on a smaller scale. (And strangely, I find myself enjoying MGS2 the most, though maybe that's because I've played 1 and 3 too many times.) So really, I imagine I might enjoy MGS4 more when I play it next, just because I don't take the series seriously anymore.
AgentOtaku
Member
I never had a problem with mistakenly taking the series seriously. I love that its dopey. Problem with MGS4 is that it thinks its clever when it's just really fucking stupid.
The opposite of this would be MGS3 and a much lesser extent, Peace Walker. Games that know when to real it in.... for the most part lol
That's bullshit and a huge generalization. I love Metal Gear, I have loved ever since the crappy NES port, and moved on with the series. It is one of my favorite videogame franchises of all time, and I love Metal Gear Solid 4.
Don't try to put people who disagree with your view of the game in one camp or another.
mgs4 love is perplexing, but opinions, subjectivity, etc.
endless technological issues + kojima obviously feeling strangled by the burden of another metal gear that has to answer questions that never were meant to be answered (by him at least) made mgs4 into a mess of half-baked plot and gameplay ideas
I think MGS4 is the game that takes itself seriously the least by far. It constantly pokes fun at itself(and even at long time fans)and has tons of silly moments.
MGS3 is a lot more serious tonally by comparison.
Its definitely a great game ,and one that'll remain unforgettable to me at least.
The gameplay hubs were excellent.
Sure it has a bit too many cutscenes but what MGS doesn't ?
daninthemix
Member
I finally just knuckled down and finished this myself, after only making it to Act 2 in the past.
I'd say that up to Act 3 I was mostly engaged with both gameplay and cutscenes (that NV footstep tracking in the jungle dragged on, but that was because I was walking in circles for ages).
Act 3 was boring, and actually revealed a fundamental problem of the stealth - when it goes wrong, the gameplay kindof goes to pot, and there's not even a quick 'restart checkpoint' option to let you quickly try again. The same is true later on during the robot-infested Shadow Moses. If you get seen, all you can do is leg it to the zone exit, hopefully without getting caught in a knockdown loop by the infinitely-spawning smaller robots.
When the stealth all goes to plan, it feels amazing. Sneaking through warzones, letting the octocamo suit blend in. Actually in Act 2 there was one moment I thought was incredibly stupid - I got spotted, so I ran miles away and hid in the cardboard box next to a whole stack of other boxes. A guard wandered straight over, muttered "a cardboard box...HERE?!" and then stabbed me. It made absolutely no sense, and further suggested that the MGS stealth is only compelling when you're not being detected, otherwise the systems and gameplay just fall apart.
Later on the cutscenes really started to lose me. Meryl and Johnny was utterly vomit-inducing as was Ottocon bawling his eyes out over Naomi; pro-tip for any wannabe film directors - simply putting tears in your character's eyes doesn't make a scene emotive. Particularly when 30 seconds later he shakes it all off and continues directing Snake like nothing ever happened. Raiden was cool but the dude just kept coming back after the game inferred that he was dead, to the point of becoming a boy-crying-wolf scenario that you simply don't take serious any more.
I didn't enjoy most of the boss battles. The sniper one in the snow was good, but I actually used a grenade launcher instead of a sniper rifle. It felt good sneaking around in the snow with NV on, and most importantly it wasn't the end of the world if you got seen. The Rex vs Ray fight was decent - shoot him, punch him, stomp him while he's down and laser him. Liked it.
The fisticuffs on the ship were epic in presentation but not in gameplay - it was pretty crude and haphazard. I sat through the long, long ending and felt more confused than ever. That said, I like Old Snake as a character from start to finish, so I guess that's something.
I'd say that up to Act 3 I was mostly engaged with both gameplay and cutscenes (that NV footstep tracking in the jungle dragged on, but that was because I was walking in circles for ages).
Act 3 was boring, and actually revealed a fundamental problem of the stealth - when it goes wrong, the gameplay kindof goes to pot, and there's not even a quick 'restart checkpoint' option to let you quickly try again. The same is true later on during the robot-infested Shadow Moses. If you get seen, all you can do is leg it to the zone exit, hopefully without getting caught in a knockdown loop by the infinitely-spawning smaller robots.
When the stealth all goes to plan, it feels amazing. Sneaking through warzones, letting the octocamo suit blend in. Actually in Act 2 there was one moment I thought was incredibly stupid - I got spotted, so I ran miles away and hid in the cardboard box next to a whole stack of other boxes. A guard wandered straight over, muttered "a cardboard box...HERE?!" and then stabbed me. It made absolutely no sense, and further suggested that the MGS stealth is only compelling when you're not being detected, otherwise the systems and gameplay just fall apart.
Later on the cutscenes really started to lose me. Meryl and Johnny was utterly vomit-inducing as was Ottocon bawling his eyes out over Naomi; pro-tip for any wannabe film directors - simply putting tears in your character's eyes doesn't make a scene emotive. Particularly when 30 seconds later he shakes it all off and continues directing Snake like nothing ever happened. Raiden was cool but the dude just kept coming back after the game inferred that he was dead, to the point of becoming a boy-crying-wolf scenario that you simply don't take serious any more.
I didn't enjoy most of the boss battles. The sniper one in the snow was good, but I actually used a grenade launcher instead of a sniper rifle. It felt good sneaking around in the snow with NV on, and most importantly it wasn't the end of the world if you got seen. The Rex vs Ray fight was decent - shoot him, punch him, stomp him while he's down and laser him. Liked it.
The fisticuffs on the ship were epic in presentation but not in gameplay - it was pretty crude and haphazard. I sat through the long, long ending and felt more confused than ever. That said, I like Old Snake as a character from start to finish, so I guess that's something.