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RTTP: The Pokemon. All 721 of them, and counting.

I was browsing Smogon for the first time in a long while and I stumbled upon the latest usage tiers:

Combined Usage for OU

+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Garchomp | 27.026% |
| 2 | Landorus-Therian | 25.603% |
| 3 | Keldeo | 19.455% |
| 4 | Scizor | 17.629% |
| 5 | Heatran | 17.335% |
| 6 | Talonflame | 16.603% |
| 7 | Excadrill | 16.003% |
| 8 | Tornadus-Therian | 15.717% |
| 9 | Rotom-Wash | 15.454% |
| 10 | Ferrothorn | 15.411% |

Garchomp? Fucking Garchomp? It's 2015 and he's STILL the best? FML.

flipping-table-gif.gif


10 years of fucking terror.

Gotta keep Cynthia strong
 

Azuran

Banned
I was browsing Smogon for the first time in a long while and I stumbled upon the latest usage tiers:

Combined Usage for OU

+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Garchomp | 27.026% |
| 2 | Landorus-Therian | 25.603% |
| 3 | Keldeo | 19.455% |
| 4 | Scizor | 17.629% |
| 5 | Heatran | 17.335% |
| 6 | Talonflame | 16.603% |
| 7 | Excadrill | 16.003% |
| 8 | Tornadus-Therian | 15.717% |
| 9 | Rotom-Wash | 15.454% |
| 10 | Ferrothorn | 15.411% |

Garchomp? Fucking Garchomp? It's 2015 and he's STILL the best? FML.

flipping-table-gif.gif


10 years of fucking terror.

Flygon fans continue losing.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
To be fair, Gen 1 was using dinosaur aesthetics that were relevant back then, hence why aerodactyl looks like that.
 
I like Garchomp a lot. Great design, great stats, fun typing. Gen IV 'Chomp was some scary shit though, jeez.

I guess the only beef I have with it was that it essentially made Flygon redundant. They really should give that guy Quiver Dance or something.
 
I was browsing Smogon for the first time in a long while and I stumbled upon the latest usage tiers:

Combined Usage for OU

+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Garchomp | 27.026% |
| 2 | Landorus-Therian | 25.603% |
| 3 | Keldeo | 19.455% |
| 4 | Scizor | 17.629% |
| 5 | Heatran | 17.335% |
| 6 | Talonflame | 16.603% |
| 7 | Excadrill | 16.003% |
| 8 | Tornadus-Therian | 15.717% |
| 9 | Rotom-Wash | 15.454% |
| 10 | Ferrothorn | 15.411% |

Garchomp? Fucking Garchomp? It's 2015 and he's STILL the best? FML.

flipping-table-gif.gif


10 years of fucking terror.

In fairness, a lot of non legendaries have been banished to ubers this gen I believe. Stuff like Greninja, Speed boost blaziken, Aegislash, and a bunch of Megas
 

Delio

Member
I was browsing Smogon for the first time in a long while and I stumbled upon the latest usage tiers:

Combined Usage for OU

+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Garchomp | 27.026% |
| 2 | Landorus-Therian | 25.603% |
| 3 | Keldeo | 19.455% |
| 4 | Scizor | 17.629% |
| 5 | Heatran | 17.335% |
| 6 | Talonflame | 16.603% |
| 7 | Excadrill | 16.003% |
| 8 | Tornadus-Therian | 15.717% |
| 9 | Rotom-Wash | 15.454% |
| 10 | Ferrothorn | 15.411% |

Garchomp? Fucking Garchomp? It's 2015 and he's STILL the best? FML.

flipping-table-gif.gif


10 years of fucking terror.

Favorite Dragon pokemon still the king baby.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
TYPdyhW.png

#143 - Snorlax
Normal

Here we are, the King of the Normal-type Pokemon, and one of the strongest Pokemon introduced in Generation I. Snorlax was a unique Pokemon who rather than being encountered in random battles, could only be found by interacting with two sleeping ones spread across Kanto and waking them with the PokeFlute---the player had to be careful, though, because Snorlax was quite a difficult Pokemon to catch and if the player messed up the capture, that Snorlax would be gone for good. Later games, notably Gold and Silver and X and Y, also re-used this gimmick but with slight changes, such as those games only having one, and beginning with Heart Gold and Soul Silver Snorlax would respawn after the Elite Four giving the player another chance to catch it. Plus obtaining a Snorlax became far easier too with the introduction of Breeding, and receiving a Baby form in Generation IV who could simply be caught in the wild, although was still relatively rare. The player doesn't want to skip over Snorlax in Generation I, because it was easily one of the strongest Pokemon in the game thanks to its powerful Attack and high HP allowing it to dish damage as well as take it, and having only one weakness didn't hurt either. Till Diamond and Pearl it was one of the strongest OU Pokemon in the metagame, however the increase in powerful offensive Pokemon, especially all the popular Fighting-type Pokemon that began to appear, greatly hurt its usability and dropped it down in the tiers---currently in XY I believe basically the old "Curselax" set is the only set worth using, and its predictability is a major flaw. Still, this hasn't hurt Snorlax's image as one of the most memorable classic Pokemon, and I'm surprised Game Freak hasn't used it more in marketing like they did with Mewtwo and Charizard recently since I think it easily could be as popular as them with enough push. Personally I like him more than those two, and while I've never gotten around to using one actually, I enjoy his design and character. I'm betting Game Freak might choose him to receive a Mega Evolution soon, and I just hope it's a nice take on a classic Pokemon that fans new and old can appreciate.

Snorlax holds the honor of being the heaviest Generation I Pokemon at 1014.1 lbs, which is actually pretty damn light considering plenty of real-life animals are easily double that, and heck, there are humans who have reached that as well. There are 16 documented people throughout history who exceed that, with the heaviest weighing in at 1,400. Considering Snorlax is also 6'11 while the world's heaviest man was only 6'1, he should easily exceed that weight, but once more Game Freak seems to lack perspective when it comes to height and weight. While they skimped out on those numbers while making plenty of other bizarrely high claims like the temperature a Pokemon's body can reach and how fast they can run is a mystery that has yet to be solved. Speaking of heavy humans, it's said that Snorlax's original name "Kabigon" was derived from the nickname of Koji Nishino of Game Freak, who actually appears in the Game Freak building in Black and White claiming at first that he's Snorlax, and in the sequel can even be battled where he uses one as part of his team.

Beyond being based on Nishino to an extent, Snorlax appears to be based off a large mammalian creature, such as a really fat cat, or a bear due to its hibernating nature. It also brings to mind the large Totoro in "My Neighbor Totoro", due to its size and peaceful characteristics. Snorlax is all about eating, sleeping, eating, sleeping, and so on and so on. That's really all there is to it. Snorlax's stomach is said to be so strong it's even able to eat moldy or even poisonous food due to its powerful stomach acid, which was represented in Generation III through the Ability Immunity, meaning it's unable to be poisoned by attacks as well. Its other main Ability, Thick Fat, fits with its role as a hibernator as Snorlax takes less damage from Fire and Ice-type attacks when it has that Ability. One last thing to add about Snorlax is it's one of the few Pokemon to have appeared as a PokeBall Pokemon in every iteration of Super Smash Brothers---Mew and Goldeen also hold this role. Charizard doesn't technically due to being bumped to playable in Brawl and 4.

Snorlax is a popular Pokemon in the show and has had numerous focus episode, as well as in the Orange Islands becoming a popular reserve Pokemon of Ash's. In the Orange Islands though, it mainly served as a major pain for Ash due to its lazy personality and size, such as one episode its PokeBall breaking meaning Ash and friends had to work together to push it to the nearest Pokemon Center, and during the Orange League not waking up when Ash needed its help. However, since then, Snorlax's become one of Ash's most used reserve Pokemon such as entering a sumo competition, fighting against Clair for Ash's 8th Johto badge, taking on both Gary and Harrison in the Silver Conference, fighting the Arena Tycoon Greta in the Battle Frontier, and had a minor cameo during the Sinnoh League, but since then its appearances like many of Ash's reserve Pokemon have grinded to a halt. Considering Ash didn't use reserves during the Unova League, I imagine come the end of XY we might finally see them again in action.

jJdP3Mk.png

#446 - Munchlax
Normal

It's Munchlax, the Baby form of Snorlax introduced in Generation IV. Despite not officially appearing till Diamond and Pearl, Munchlax almost feels like a Generation III Pokemon due to appearing early on in the anime, and making cameos is various Generation III spin-off titles such as Pokemon Dash and Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness. I remember some folks actually found him pretty obnoxious by the time he actually popped up in the games. In his debut game, Munchlax was actually very hard to come by---he was only found by spreading Honey on certain trees in the over world, and then waiting six-hours real-time for a Pokemon to spawn. And no, changing the clock does not work, you actually had to wait. Furthermore, every time you started a new game, only four random trees were flagged as being capable of spawning Munchlax, and beyond that there was only a 1% chance you'd actually find one after waiting six hours. It was a pretty annoying system, and thus it made it difficult to actually use Munchlax during the main adventure, although I guess they didn't want to give you such a powerful Pokemon family so early in the game. Honey Trees were dropped after Platinum, and Munchlax actually hasn't been found in the wild since, instead you'll need to breed one through Snorlax. Munchlax is arguably the strongest Baby Pokemon there is, and like his big brother is a very powerful element of his own tier, the Little Cup. Furthermore, thanks to the Eviolite in Generation V, he's actually able to hold his own against some of the weaker evolved Pokemon as well, including Charizard. Personally, I love Munchlax, even more than Snorlax, and he's easily my favorite Baby Pokemon---hell before him I really didn't like Baby Pokemon, but he made me reconsider their coolness, and many of the Gen IV Baby Pokemon I actually like quite a bit.

While Snorlax was all about...snoring, Munchlax is all about...munching. He's basically the bear pre-hibernation, running around and scrounging for any food he can get his hands on, even stockpiling food under his fur which he constantly forgets about since his mind is so one-track. While Snorlax was basically always out of it, eyes closed and seemingly not giving a care about what was going on around him, Munchlax's eyes are wide open and is usually depicted as being extremely hyper and awake, notably lacking Snorlax's signature sleep moves such as Rest and Snore. Despite this, Munchlax is actually slower than Snorlax, which bothers me, and one of the slowest Pokemon of them all. Pokemon generally increase in stats as they evolve, however as we've seen before Speed is the one stat that they seem willing to lower upon evolution, especially when it comes to cross-generation evolutions, so I don't get why they couldn't have bumped up Munchlax to make it a bit faster than Snorlax given its smaller size and personality? Smash Brothers Brawl, which Munchlax appears in (and was sadly dropped in 4) offers up the explanation that Munchlax is only fast when going after food, which I guess I can accept. It's kind of weird the first sprite of Munchlax in Diamond and Pearl was basically asleep, which was the opposite of how he appeared in all his other appearances prior such as in the show and in the Sugimori Art, but by Platinum they fixed this, opening his eyes, and since then in the games he's always shown wide awake and standing up. Actually I've never liked how Munchlax looks in the main games---he looks really cute when he has his mouth open and smiling, but in the actual games he's always got this really dense look on his face which takes away his personality.

But yeah, Munchlax is super cute. He also seems to have more elements of Totoro incorporated as he's visually similar to the blue, medium Totoro, whose first appearance in My Neighbor Totoro was shown stockpiling food like how Munchlax does. I wish they could've had a cooler method of Evolution fitting into how he was based around a bear pre-hibernation and such, like feeding food or something, or another move-based evolution like when he learned Rest, but instead it's just maxing out Happiness. Disappointing when you think about how quite a few other Generation IV Baby Pokemon had relatively more interesting methods, such as one who evolved when you had another specific Pokemon in your party. Um, did I mention he was cute? I'd totally buy a life-size Munchlax pillow or something because it's adorable. It seems Game Freak had great hopes for Munchlax thus pushing him so hard pre-Generation IV, but I don't think he lived up to their expectations, and has faded from the spotlight compared to Snorlax, who himself hasn't really seen much love outside of XY just half-heartedly doing a Generation I throwback by having him hanging around blocking your path. I hope Generation VI gives Snorlax a Mega just so these two can be back in vogue.

Munchlax made his franchise debut in Movie 7 as a comic-relief character, but was then added to the main cast near the end of Hoenn and given to May. I gotta feel sorry for May, because she really became basically a walking advertisment towards the end, the writers having her drop two of her main Pokemon who had been her mains for much of the show in favor of FRLG advertising in Bulbasaur and Squirtle, and hyping Generation IV with Eevee and Munchlax. I hated her Bulbasaur, Squirtle, and Eevee, they were all annoying cute Pokemon with no actual value and ended up being way too strong considering how young they were, but Munchlax was cool in my book. He was basically comic-relief, and while he was hinted to have a lot of hidden power like Psyduck, he never really got to show it in any Contest---in fact the one Contest Battle he took part in he lost. For the most part, he had a weird friendship with May's brother Max, and was basically his Pokemon of sorts---I always wondered if they ever let Max become a Trainer after leaving the show, would they let him have Munchlax as his own? By the way, I gotta stick up for Max, he was honestly a pretty cool dude and I liked the dynamic he brought to the show serving as a younger foil to Ash which helped the latter feel a bit more mature, and I'm glad XY brought that back with Eureka, who is a break-out character it seems based on fan reaction. I was actually hoping since Max was off the main cast, and thus could "grow", he'd return in XY due to ORAS as an actual Trainer, but it seems that's not gonna happen. Ash's XY rival, Sawyer, who hails from Hoenn looks suspiciously similar to him and I definitely think it was probably intentional, but maybe I'm looking too far into that.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I was browsing Smogon for the first time in a long while and I stumbled upon the latest usage tiers:

Combined Usage for OU

+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Garchomp | 27.026% |
| 2 | Landorus-Therian | 25.603% |
| 3 | Keldeo | 19.455% |
| 4 | Scizor | 17.629% |
| 5 | Heatran | 17.335% |
| 6 | Talonflame | 16.603% |
| 7 | Excadrill | 16.003% |
| 8 | Tornadus-Therian | 15.717% |
| 9 | Rotom-Wash | 15.454% |
| 10 | Ferrothorn | 15.411% |

Garchomp? Fucking Garchomp? It's 2015 and he's STILL the best? FML.

flipping-table-gif.gif


10 years of fucking terror.
Where the hell is Goomy? He is obviously the best.

The best


Edit: Oh, new post.

Snorlax is a definite classic. His assist in Smash is one of the more memorable Pokemon assists. His cry signals screen wide doom for many.
 

Anth0ny

Member
snorlax has to be one of the most iconic pokemon. the word "snorlax" has pretty much become synonymous with "fat guy" at this point. not sure if that's a good thing.

also, snorlax owns
 

PK Gaming

Member
I was browsing Smogon for the first time in a long while and I stumbled upon the latest usage tiers:

Combined Usage for OU

+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Garchomp | 27.026% |
| 2 | Landorus-Therian | 25.603% |
| 3 | Keldeo | 19.455% |
| 4 | Scizor | 17.629% |
| 5 | Heatran | 17.335% |
| 6 | Talonflame | 16.603% |
| 7 | Excadrill | 16.003% |
| 8 | Tornadus-Therian | 15.717% |
| 9 | Rotom-Wash | 15.454% |
| 10 | Ferrothorn | 15.411% |

Garchomp? Fucking Garchomp? It's 2015 and he's STILL the best? FML.

flipping-table-gif.gif


10 years of fucking terror.


It's not the absolutely best, but it's extremely useful

Garchomp started out as a decent offensive threat, but once people shifted towards using the defensive variant (which is very, very good) its usage skyrocketed. Garchomp can cover so many things; set up Stealth Rock, deal with a ton of dangerous threats (with a kickass ability that basically CRIPPLES anything that makes physical contact) and is just super hard to kill. Just your all-around utility tank.

Want me to really blow your mind though? Clefable is currently one of the strongest Pokemon in singles. It's even better than Garchomp.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Why is stealth rock so good? It looks like it only does serious damage if it has a type advantage, and the meta can't be that dominated by things weak to rock can it?
 

PK Gaming

Member
Why is stealth rock so good? It looks like it only does serious damage if it has a type advantage, and the meta can't be that dominated by things weak to rock can it?

The most important move you can make during a battle is switching. It happens very frequently in a given match, so you can rack up some fast damage for free. 12.5% against a neutral target doesn't seem like much, but if they switch in to battle twice that's 25% of their life gone. Throw in things like sandstorm, life orb, etc, and you can weaken opposing Pokemon without throwing a hit... all of that just from using a single move.

While a decent chunk of the top threats resist it, there are even more Pokemon who don't making it invaluable for adding damage. That's not even getting Pokemon like Charizard (X&Y) and Talonflame who would absolutely destroy you if Stealth Rock wasn't a thing.

EDIT: Yeah, it nullifies stuff like Focus Sash and Multiscale which is a very big deal. (how could I forget, lol)

It's just too bad Softboiled Clefable is pretty much impossible to get in the actual games.

Yeah :(

You can get good mileage out of the Wish set at least.
 
Why is stealth rock so good? It looks like it only does serious damage if it has a type advantage, and the meta can't be that dominated by things weak to rock can it?

It's not just about the damage. It keeps Focus Sash and abilities like Sturdy and Multiscale from working, turns moves that might KO in 2 hits into one hit KO's, and numerous very specific situations.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I hope a Snorlax mega would go for a sumo wrestler type pokemon. That or have him become A) Really buff or B) Skinny and fast.
 
Moltres and Electrode also appear in every Smash, but technically not really.

Moltres is in the background of Saffron City, and from Melee on was in a Pokeball. Electrode was a hazard in Saffron City, and in a Pokeball from then out.
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
Ah Snorlax, I freaking love Snorlax and Lax, my Snorlax in Fire Red was amazing and just sooo bulky.

As for Munchlax, I always wanted to use one but I just never got the chance, due to how stupid it was to catch it in the gen 4 games. Oh well maybe one day.

I hope a Snorlax mega would go for a sumo wrestler type pokemon. That or have him become A) Really buff or B) Skinny and fast.

Nah Snorlax is a lazy git, he would get even fatter... and lazier.
 
I hate how clogged up items have gotten with 15 billion incense.

It's gotten to the point where there's an entire dude dedicated to selling nothing but tools to breed new babies.

I don't get how Game Freak feels fine retconning entire chunks of Pokemon History (first/second gen with the third gen, and then third/fourth/fifth with the sixth gen) but refuses to retcon baby Pokemon.

Would "mah lore" actually suffer, at all, if Snorlax didn't require a random junk item to make a Munchlax?
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I hate how clogged up items have gotten with 15 billion incense.

It's gotten to the point where there's an entire dude dedicated to selling nothing but tools to breed new babies.

I don't get how Game Freak feels fine retconning entire chunks of Pokemon History (first/second gen with the third gen, and then third/fourth/fifth with the sixth gen) but refuses to retcon baby Pokemon.

Would "mah lore" actually suffer, at all, if Snorlax didn't require a random junk item to make a Munchlax?

It's due to in Gen 2 you can breed 2 Snorlaxes and get a Snorlax. They didn't bother updating it.

It's not really lore but more on coding. Lazy or just leaving it because legacy? I dunno. Same reason why they leave Nidorina and Nidoqueen sterile.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Just make a "Super Incense" that works for all the Baby Pokemon if you really wanna keep the Incense, which I can understand since some folks may not want to go through the Babys first.
 
It's due to in Gen 2 you can breed 2 Snorlaxes and get a Snorlax. They didn't bother updating it.

It's not really lore but more on coding. Lazy or just leaving it because legacy? I dunno. Same reason why they leave Nidorina and Nidoqueen sterile.

Gen 2 doesn't exist anymore. It got retconned with Ruby/Sapphire completely shutting those games away. And then the fourth gen fully removed it. And then the sixth gen said the fourth gen doesn't exist in this reality. So relics of the second gen are so far removed, they might as well be entirely ignored at this point.

I think it's Game Freak not wanting to "confuse" people who breed Snorlax and expect Snorlax like the last 15 years of the series.

So instead they add the Lax Incense and Full Incense and let you waste your time figuring out which one makes a Munchlax, or even what the incense do at all, because the game doesn't tell you!

I think Nidorina and Queen are sterile because of Gen II coding stuff. There's no reason they needed to remain like that when newer Pokemon have a similar gimmick (Volbeat) and breed just fine, so the issue was obviously resolved.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Apparently because each incense has a battle effect.

But all of them are just duplicate of a pre-existing item, right?

Full Incense is Lagging Tail, Luck Incense is Amulet Coin, Odd Incense is Twisted Spoon, etc.

Just give the "Super Incense" an ability like Eviolite but for Baby Pokemon.

Gen 2 doesn't exist anymore. It got retconned with Ruby/Sapphire completely shutting those games away.

Huh? I never got the impression Ruby and Sapphire ignored those games---in fact, the player character is said to have moved from Johto at the beginning.
 
Huh? I never got the impression Ruby and Sapphire ignored those games---in fact, the player character is said to have moved from Johto at the beginning.

Gen III exists in the same "world" as Gen IV, so Gen II can't exist in the same world as Gen III, as Gen IV retcons Gen II away.

Or I guess you could also say Gen II exists in the same world as Gen I, but Gen I and Gen III exist in different worlds, as III retcons I. So Gen III can't be in the same world as Gen II.
 

Razmos

Member
It's funny how some of the pokemon I would never think to use in the games are absolutely incredible in the TCG.

I've been playing it online and my MVP are probably Eevee (who has the ridiculously broken ability to evolve instantly into the pokemon that matches the type of energy you give it), Sylveon, Leafeon, Accelgor, Vicreebel (who can decimate high level pokemon from the bench by using its ability), Clefairy, Miltank, Bouffalant and others

Doing well with them is changing my opinions of the pokemon themselves and making me appreciate them more.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
But all of them are just duplicate of a pre-existing item, right?

Full Incense is Lagging Tail, Luck Incense is Amulet Coin, Odd Incense is Twisted Spoon, etc.

Just give the "Super Incense" an ability like Eviolite but for Baby Pokemon.

Yeah they are.

Hmm I guess they should really just do that, but I guess you have this item tagging problem.
 
GF could easily do a soft replace of all the incenses in a new gen without necessarily removing the effects - just include the item, and don't include any of the prior incenses. Sort of like how the Prism Scale was the workaround for no Beauty stat in G5.

Also, they should in return make the items they were based on more easily purchasable.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Ever play a competitve Gen II match? It's an interesting format, operating in a completely different manner from every other format. Out of all the gens, it's the most reminiscent to Chess, with strats that are vaguely reminiscent of opening moves, and matches generally being long and drawn out.

Anyway I brought this up because in Gen II, the game revolved around Snorlax. It wasn't accurate to say that Snorlax was the best Pokemon in the metagame. Snorlax was the metagame.

Snorlax is the king of GSC, and anybody who dares question his rule will quickly learn the harsh reality of what the best Pokemon in the game can do. Snorlax is the best defensive tank with a Curse set, and it is also the best stallbreaker with a Belly Drum set. Snorlax is always an offensive and defensive boon to a team, and while it does have some unfortunate weaknesses (namely mediocre Defense, low Speed, and reliance on Normal STAB for damage output), its strong points make it the force that defines the GSC metagame. Seriously, Skarmory is only good because it walls Snorlax's most common sets, and the legendary Electric-types frequently run Thunder over Thunderbolt almost entirely because Thunder can threaten to KO Snorlax after Spikes damage or a critical hit. Snorlax is mandatory on basically every serious GSC team. Honestly, he's that good.

It's honestly kind of amazing how wildly a Pokemon's performance can vary throughout gens.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
My competitive background is basically flipping a coin and hoping Medicham's Hi-Jump Kick doesn't miss.
 

iirate

Member
Ever play a competitve Gen II match? It's an interesting format, operating in a completely different manner from every other format. Out of all the gens, it's the most reminiscent to Chess, with strats that are vaguely reminiscent of opening moves, and matches generally being long and drawn out.

Anyway I brought this up because in Gen II, the game revolved around Snorlax. It wasn't accurate to say that Snorlax was the best Pokemon in the metagame. Snorlax was the metagame.



It's honestly kind of amazing how wildly a Pokemon's performance can vary throughout gens.

Gen II was the only gen that I dabbled in competitive pokemon, and I loved it. I've checked in on the state of the game since then, but the much more aggressive meta hasn't appealed to me.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
The Legendary Birds

Here we are, the first Legendary Pokemon ever introduced in the entire franchise---the Legendary Birds. Before we talk about them, let's talk about Legendary Pokemon. To put it simply, Legendary Pokemon were originally introduced as the "secret bosses" of the Pokemon series, hidden away deep within the game's toughest dungeons and completely optional during the main adventure, but necessary if the player wanted to complete their PokeDex. Legendary Pokemon are overall statistically the strongest Pokemon in the game, although there are non-Legendary Pokemon who exceed them, and also extremely rare---each game generally has only a single individual of a Legendary species available, and once you caught or defeated that Legendary Pokemon they were gone for good, although later games began to have them respawn. Personally, the Legendary Pokemon are hard enough to catch as is, and I think totally keeping the player from obtaining them if they screwed up wasn't the best design decision, so I'm perfectly okay with them easing up on that trait. Legendary Pokemon also are unable to breed, do not have genders, and do not evolve, although as we'll see all those traits have technically been broken by special exceptions introduced in future Generations, but most of them still follow those rules.

Legendary Pokemon are an important part of the Pokemon franchise, but also an element that in recent years has come under criticism by long-term fans. The issue? Well, to put it simply, most people see Legendary Pokemon as simply PokeDex filler---in the competitive scene they have their use, of course, but most players who play Pokemon like to use Pokemon they've raised throughout the adventure, and generally adding a Legendary to your team is seen as very cheap and going against the main appeal of the series, raising a weak Pokemon into a strong one through hard work. And while Legendary Pokemon were once simply an additional part of the Pokemon experience, in recent years they've been pushed more and more to the forefront, becoming vitally important to the game's plot, and the amount of them introduced each Generation has skyrocketed, with XY being the first game to actually dial back on them---although it also introduced Mega Legendary Pokemon into the mix. It seems most people would rather have more "normal" Pokemon over Legendary Pokemon, and the excess amount of Legendary Pokemon has greatly weakened their appeal. By this point, basically everything you can imagine has been covered by a Legendary---we basically even got God---and I think fans are just sick of them. To be fair, I actually do like the designs and themes of a lot of Legendaries, however I myself never actually use them, and don't really care about catching them anymore either. They make cool Pokemon to make movies about though, but I really think Game Freak needs to go back to the Generation I roots where Legendary Pokemon were powerful and rare, but an optional part of the game and didn't have such extreme powers and such.

The Legendary Birds introduced a reoccurring archetype known as the "Legendary Trio", a group of three similar Legendary Pokemon who share similar stats, designs, and sometimes Types., in this case all being part-Flying. In a couple situations, there's also a fourth, more important member introduced known as the "Trio Master", who the Birds have in some canons, but not in the main games. They're typically available earlier than the other Legendary Pokemon, such as the Legendary Birds in Generation all being catchable before the Elite Four if you wished to use them, and are also statistically weaker, having 580 BST and thus being eligible still for most in-game Battle Facilities that the stronger Legendaries are banned from. They usually don't play much of a role in the main story of the game, and finding them is completely optional, but can be fairly challenging since you'll need to search for them instead of them coming to you like the Mascot Legendaries. Since Generation III, the main Legendary Pokemon of each Generation decorating the boxes have also been comprised of Legendary Trios, however these Legendary Trios are more powerful, and typically are called a "Mascot Trio" to differentiate them. Legendary Trios are my favorite part of the Legendary cycle, and the one type of Legendary I wouldn't mind staying, and was actually very disappointed XY lacked a new Legendary Trio, merely using the Legendary Birds once more without any real reason behind their appearance, and limiting every player to only 1 via a tedious chase quest. Maybe "Z" will deliver on that though...

Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres are interesting among Legendary Pokemon because they really don't have any story behind them at all in the actual games, they're just three rare, powerful birds representing the popular RPG elemental-trio of Ice, Lightning, and Fire, and probably due to this reason they're easy to throw into later games without much explanation behind their appearance---they've made 12 main game appearances I believe. It's generally thought that there's only one of each in existence, although the various canons seems to imply that they are capable of breeding and such, and there might be a couple of each species flying around the different Regions. In the show, though, the Legendary Trio were given a starring role in the second Pokemon Movie as "guardians of nature", and capturing them could lead to the complete destruction of the ecosystem as we know it, but nothing in the games support that, nor do the games ever link the Legendary Birds to Lugia, who in said movie was said to be their "Trio Master". Honestly, the games don't even really suggest that the Legendary Birds even are familiar with one another or linked beyond all three being birds, it's probably more of a man-made title. I don't need Legendary Pokemon to have a ton of back story, but I wish they could give these guys some sort of legend in the games to make them a bit more interesting. I've honestly never really been a fan of them, and while I like their simplicity, I find almost every other Legendary cooler than these guys.

In the dub, they have a very cute naming scheme of "uno, dos, tres", whereas in Japan they're just named Freezer, Thunder, and Fire. Hey, it probably sounds cooler to non-native English speakers. Also Westerners will see them as representing the original trilogy of Generation I games, whereas like with the Generation I Eeveelutions it's merely a coincidence and leaves out "Green".

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#144 - Articuno
Ice/Flying

Articuno is the first of the Legendary Birds, but there's no indication that there's any hierarchy among them outside of their English names, so don't think of him as the leader. Articuno was one of the few Ice-types introduced in Generation I, and the only apart from Jynx who wasn't part-Water---I also feel it's easily the most "icy" of the original Ice Pokemon, although you could probably mistake it for a Water-type Pokemon given that it appeared at Seafoam Islands, and might be thinking the Legendary Birds had the same Type as the Eeveelutions and thus it was like Vaporeon. It was probably the most annoying Legendary Bird to capture due to the Seafoam Islands being a complete mess to navigate and very frustrating, and I remember saving it till the end of the journey because I didn't want to bother with it at first. Articuno is the slowest and most defensive of the Legendary Birds, which doesn't really pay off due to being an Ice-type Pokemon and having a ton of weaknesses---back in Generation I, all the Legendary Birds were good, with Articuno in particular being the only one who could stand up all the Rock/Ground Pokemon, but throughout the years they've all sort of gone down in usage, and Articuno appears to have suffered the most due to just not being able to keep up with everyone else in speed and Ice never getting any better. Nowadays, I believe he's considered the weakest of the Trio, but on the other hand it seems that he's the most popular of the Legendary Birds aesthetically, or so I get that impression.

The Legendary Birds have rudimentary elemental powers, with Articuno of course being able to control ice---it's said that when it flies, snow is said to fall. The PokeDex states that it's "semi-translucent wings" are made of ice, but none of its appearances have ever really represented this, they just look like regular, blue feathers and have never been shown to be transparent, even in the 3D games where that'd be easier to model. I sort of wish they used its Shiny coloration as its default, as it fits more in my opinion. Its original sprites had it look almost like a swan, but since then it's toughened up in terms of appearance, and now reminds me of some sort of powerful bird of prey, like an eagle, and makes him feel like he probably has a bit more authority than the other two. None of the Legendary Birds seem to be based off any specific species of bird, but Articuno is said to look like a "white-throated magpie-jay", which I sort of see but there's no direct evidence beyond simply similarity in appearance.

The other Legendary Birds appear to be based off real-world mythological birds, but I don't recall ever hearing about one with control over ice and snow, so Articuno seems to be the exception to this. Or maybe there is one and it's just obscure and I've never heard of it? Beyond simply controlling ice, there's only one other legend associated with Articuno which says that those lost on snowy mountains will see this Legendary Bird---but the PokeDex is vague about what this means. Does Articuno rescue them from their fate by leading them to safety, or rather does it appear to them as their die, possibly being the reason they got lost in the snowstorm in the first place? I'd like to think its the former, but Pokemon can be pretty brutal so it wouldn't surprise me if it's also the latter.

All the Legendary Birds appeared in Movie 2, but mainly just got captured and sat around in bird cages for most of the movie. Individually, they've all had a few appearances, Articuno got an entire mini-arc in Johto dedicated to it which also saw the return of Todd Snap---for some reason. In the Battle Frontier season, an Articuno actually befriended the Factory Head Nolan and was used by him in a battle against Ash's Charizard. I get that Frontier Brains were the first in-game trainers to use Legendary Pokemon iirc and the anime wanted to show that, but this pissed me off---the Battle Factory was all about rental Pokemon, and I remember getting hyped wanting to see Ash using a team of rental Pokemon for once to mix things up, but the show just drops that completely in favor of Articuno vs. Charizard. Total missed opportunity, and I remember the episode being pretty lame. Articuno also was believed to have appeared in the very first episode of Pokemon, but of course it turned out to be an entirely different Legendary who'd be introduced officially in Generation II...

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#145 - Zapdos
Electric/Flying

Zapdos is the second Legendary Bird, and arguably the most popular one overall due to his looks and power---I imagine part of his popularity stems from the fact he was by-far the easiest Legendary Bird to find and capture due to only needing Surf to reach him and hiding in the Kanto Power Plant, a far easier and simpler dungeon to nagivate than Seafoam Islands and Victory Road. As a kid, he was the first Legendary Bird I caught, and I recall actually using him through a bit of the late-game since I was a pretty poor player and needed to rely on his power to get me through. Zapdos has always been the most powerful of the Legendary Birds in the competitive scene, possessing the best Speed and tied for the highest Special Attack, especially in the early days where his only big weakness was his inability to handle the Rock/Ground Pokemon of Generation I, and he's still the most powerful, although like all the Legendary Birds he's suffered some stiff competition such as another Electric/Flying Legendary Pokemon appearing on the scene in Generation V, and of course Stealth Rock, although atleast he only takes 2X damage from that unlike Articuno and Moltres. But if you want a cool-looking Legendary, Zapdos is your bird.

With that being said, Zapdos is one of those designs I look at now that I'm older I feel a bit embarrassed that I found it cool as a child. Don't get me wrong, it's by no means a bad design, nor is it as try-hard as some later Legendaries, but it does look quite awkward especially in the face area with that Woody Woodpecker nose, and visually it noticeably stands out compared to the other Legendary Birds who have slightly more elegant designs whereas Zapdos is quite sharp and edgy. Like with Articuno, Zapdos doesn't appear to be based on any specific real-life bird, rather its design is all about giving the impression of "electricity", which I think it does a good job with more so than Articuno's attempts to look "icy", but there's really no subtlety here like most Electric-type Pokemon. He's also probably the only Legendary Bird whose original sprite actually matched the art somewhat, whereas Articuno and Moltres looked quite different.

Zapdos of course has control over the power of storms, and is said to cause thunderclouds to appear whenever it flaps its wings as well as dropping down lightning bolts---but does it truly control the power of storms, or does it merely appear when they roll in? One entry says it lives within the thunderclouds, and is given power when hit by lightning bolts suggesting that it depends on the storms rather than the other way around. It fittingly had Lightning Rod as a Hidden Ability in Generation V, but was unaccessible through any legit means and by Generation VI, it was given Static instead, although you still can't get Legendary Birds with their Hidden Abilities, so they're all stuck with Pressure, the default Ability for older Legendaries it seems. Zapdos is likely based off the North American indigenous people mythological creature known as the "Thunderbird", which shares the same abilities as Zapdos to cause storms and such by merely flapping its enormous wings. The actual Thunderbird is believed to have been based off sightings of possibly bald eagles, due to their impressive size and wingspan, and actual imagery of the Thunderbird doesn't look anything like Zapdos as it didn't literally look like a bird made of lightning nor did it have the giant beak. But I imagine Game Freak based the general idea of Zapdos on the lore associated with the creature, and weren't going for accuracy anyway. By the way, the Thunderbird who appears in Zelda II is likely not related to the mythological one whatsoever---that name is a dub invention, and originally it was called Boruba, and official artwork of it makes it look like it was meant to be based off some sort of Harpy rather than a Thunderbird.

Zapdos appeared in Movie 2, but later got a filler episode dedicated to it at the far end of Johto, the last Legendary Bird to officially appear in the show, where it was shown to roost at a special lake containing a magical crystal said to restore the energy of Electric-type Pokemon. Yeah, it was a Johto episode. It also made a few quick cameo appearances during the Diamond and Pearl series, likely as a shout-out to the Legendary Birds roaming Sinnoh during the post-game of Platinum. But overall, for arguably the most popular Legendary Bird, it's had the least amount of spotlight in the show.

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#146 - Moltres
Fire/Flying

The last Legendary Bird, Moltres in the original Red and Blue appeared deep within Victory Road if the player was willing to explore it further, although like all caves throughout the Pokemon experience it could be quite a pain, but in the Gen III remakes, it was relocated to the new Sevii Islands. Although most of the islands could not be explored till after beating the Elite Four, the first three could be explored as soon as one defeated Blaine and Moltres happened to make its home on the first one, Knot Island. I'm not sure why they decided to move Moltres, but I guess they wanted to give it its own dungeon that fit its Type rather than sticking it in Victory Road? Moltres has the highest Attack and Special Attack of the Legendary Birds (although it shares the Special Attack with Zapdos), but it's hurt due to its Type which is destroyed by Stealth Rock, and generally it seems to be the weakest of the Legendary Birds in the competitive scene. It got a bit more use once it gained Hurricane in Generation V, but it seems there's more worthy Legendary Pokemon to use over it. I also feel it's the least popular of the Legendary Birds in general---I imagine popping up in Victory Road very few people used one in-game, saving it for the post-game, and also I don't think people really like its design.

A good criticism of Moltres' design I've heard is that there's no "stability" to it. With certain Pokemon, they have a look, and that looks stays with them, but Moltres' design changes constantly depending on the artist and medium---are its wings and tail totally made from fire? Or are its wings just yellow with flames coming out the ends? Sometimes Moltres looks really cool but other times I've seen it described as looking like a "rubber chicken" someone lit on fire. The fire part of it is pretty cool, but I agree that its actual body does kind of look like some kind of weird chicken, and very rarely do I feel it's properly represented in a cool way, most of the time it does seem to have somewhat of a goofy look to it. But for what it's worth, it achieves what it sets out to do---resemble a bird who controls fire---so I can't hate on it too much if it accomplishes what its motif intends to portray. Moltres controls fire, and is said to even bring spring to cold regions when it appears through its wings that rain down embers wherever it flies.

Some people think Moltres is based on the legendary Phoenix, due to the fact it can regenerate itself if damage by nesting in volcanoes, however besides the "rising from ashes" bit I don't think traditional phoenixes were ever associated specifically with fire, and Generation II introduced a much more loyal Phoenix-based Pokemon. It seems to be based more so on the Vermillion Bird of Chinese mythology which like Moltres is said to be perpetually covered in flames, as well as possibly the Slavic Firebird, who is also commonly said to be a mythical bird with flaming feathers. Or maybe Game Freak just wanted to make a bird that was on fire? I mean, that's basically what they did with every other Fire-type Pokemon, just took an animal and lit it on fire.

Moltres appeared in Movie 2, but was the only Legendary Bird to actually get focused on during the Kanto series in the show, where its flames are said to be used to light the torch of the Pokemon League as a nod towards the Olympic Torch, and that's not the only reference to the Olympics---the Santa-looking dude who pops up at every League, Mr. Goodshow, was based on the current President of the Olympic Committee, Juan Antonio Samaranch as his original name is a pun on his, "Tamaranze". However, as of the next Pokemon League in Johto, the flame was said to be from a new Generation II Legendari Fire-type bird rather than Moltres, and in subsequent Leagues I believe it has remained as the owner of the flame as opposed to Moltres. Moltres' appearance in Kanto can be debated, though, because in "All Fired Up" which featured the torch, the flames themselves somehow took the appearance of Moltres rather than the actual Pokemon being present, or something, in order to fight Team Rocket. So, yeah, it's dubious. I used to think Moltres actually flew by in "Lights, Camera, Quacktion" when Jigglypuff put everyone to sleep as you see a bird fly over everyones' head, but that was actually just a Fearow this whole time. Huh? Moltres later got a Pokemon Chronicles episode dedicated to it, the only episode of the show to ever feature the Sevii Islands as it takes place on Mt. Ember, but the dub actually messed this up---the most important part of this episode is that it probably, no kidding, straight up featured Ash's dad, but left it very ambiguous. Moltres recently got an episode in XY as well, somewhat of a re-tread of the Articuno plot in Johto with a photographer wanting to capture it on film, referencing its appearance in XY. Moltres appearing fits though with the games, as it only appeared if the players started with Froakie---who is Ash's Kalos Starter.
 

Nightbird

Member
It's funny how some of the pokemon I would never think to use in the games are absolutely incredible in the TCG.

I've been playing it online and my MVP are probably Eevee (who has the ridiculously broken ability to evolve instantly into the pokemon that matches the type of energy you give it), Sylveon, Leafeon, Accelgor, Vicreebel (who can decimate high level pokemon from the bench by using its ability), Clefairy, Miltank, Bouffalant and others

Doing well with them is changing my opinions of the pokemon themselves and making me appreciate them more.

I love the TCG. TCGO has renewed my love for card games. After deciding to give up Magic.

The new Deck with Noivern, Gengar and Zoroark is Boss. Those three are incredibly dangerous.
 
Articuno is one of my Top 5 GOATs. Shame that it's typing is what it is though, even though Ice is my favorite type.

Also, most serene cry ever goddamn
 
I'm just now realising I love the heck out of Articuno's design, such elegance and grace, I've always avoided putting one in a team of mine due to the reasons Birdie mentioned about legends feeling somewhat cheap to use in the main game but hey with typing like Articuno's I think I can justify it.
(that and there's stronger pokemon lurking around the main games anyway).
 
I'll be completely honest. I'm a native Spanish speaker, and I never got the whole "uno, dos, tres" naming scheme from the legendary birds until I read it in English.

My only real interaction with them was in Pokemon Blue when I was young, since I never got to play the remakes. I loved searching for them, knowing that they existed but not where they were, so they were a real fun treasure chase and nice bosses. I had hoped they did something like that on Pokemon XY, but making them roaming legendaries was really boring, especially limiting you to a single one, as if they weren't hard enough to get...

I've been playing Pokemon X in French as a supplementary mean of building my vocabulary and I discovered the Legendary Birds' names are different in French:

Articuno - Artikodin
Zapdos - Electhor
Moltres - Sulfura

I love their French names! They sound way more "legendary"!
 
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