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[James Sawyer Ford]

Depends on the speeds while ignoring GDDR3 is pretty much EOL (end of life). IMSO you're looking at determining if you want larger textures (that need more memory) or better resolution, AA, AF, etc. (the need more bandwidth). Seems safe to say Xbox 3 will have DDR4.

Most engines are based on texture streaming, where having fast ram is pivotal... so I don't think it simply boils down to "More memory = better textures".

Maybe a combination of super fast RAM + a larger pool of slower RAM would be the best approach? Say, 2GB of DDR5 + 2-4 GB of DDR3/4?

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

They never lost the plot. Most people have always known the console market was just a Trojan horse for MS to get into the living room.

The truth.

 

[Raistlin]

I understand the eBay prices. I saw 900 dollar ps3's too.
He's sounding like 400 dollars was the selling retail price of the Wii...and uh, it wasn't.

To be fair I recall a ton of stores doing forced bundles to take advantage of the situation.

That said it was when the Wii was (either artificially or not - we'll probably never know) production constrained. The serious ramp up in Wii sales was once it was regularly available at a non-ass-rape price and there was a tenable SW library. Like all consoles, it's not like it sold at its best rate in year 1. It was later.

What are they expecting their 'background processes' to do? Dual core plus GPU sounds like an apple TV sitting there just for streaming etc. I guess you could stream video to a tablet/windows phone while someone is playing a game or watching the main TV, but I guess the GPU is just there as part of a general media box.

More than one rumor points to amongst typical Roku-type functionality, DVR recording and distribution, etc. At least in the US, assuming the FCC passes AllVid as the replacement for CableCard as they are expected to late this year, 720 and other devices will be able to act as your cable/sat box and DVR regardless of provider.

The DVR capability rumors are not only within the document being discussed here, but have come from other sources in the past.

 

[Raistlin]

They never lost the plot. Most people have always known the console market was just a Trojan horse for MS to get into the living room.

Don't kid yourself into thinking the same does not hold true for Sony.

In reality, Xbox was actually a response to concerns of Sony taking over the living room.

 

[Conflict NZ]

Microsoft has had one good year and still hasn't recovered the money it lost because of that launch and the RROD problem.

Yes they have. Since 2005 the EDD has made $100 million profit overall, going and adding up every financial release. The EDD includes massive money losing ventures such as the Zune, the Kin, the RROD repairs and the massive payouts to Nokia and they are still in the black. The 360 is probably ~$600 Million in the black by now. If you have any evidence to the contrary please post it.

 

[McHuj]

The DVR capability rumors are not only within the document being discussed here, but have come from other sources in the past.

Like patent 8083593 for DVR capability on a console.

If I could have my xbox replace my DVR, I would do it ASAP.



I think they're going to go for BC through the cloud and it will be Gold feature only. I think it's a lot cheaper to create some sort of 360 server for a limited amount of users, versus having to add silicon to every next gen xbox for BC.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Like patent 8083593 for DVR capability on a console.

If I could have my xbox replace my DVR, I would do it ASAP.

I don't understand that, because my PS3 is a DVR right now :s

 

[itsgreen]

Yes they have. Since 2005 the EDD has made $100 million profit overall, going and adding up every financial release. The EDD includes massive money losing ventures such as the Zune, the Kin, the RROD repairs and the massive payouts to Nokia and they are still in the black. The 360 is probably ~$600 Million in the black by now. If you have any evidence to the contrary please post it.

Also these cumulative figures don't play in the real world. The RROD losses were written off in 2007. They aren't a factor since. The only thing that counts is how are they doing now and what is the outlook...

 

[bgassassin]

Most engines are based on texture streaming, where having fast ram is pivotal... so I don't think it simply boils down to "More memory = better textures".

Maybe a combination of super fast RAM + a larger pool of slower RAM would be the best approach? Say, 2GB of DDR5 + 2-4 GB of DDR3/4?

That's why I said IMSO (in my simple opinion). I'm still trying to get caught up on modern techniques after being away from tech things for awhile.

Don't kid yourself into thinking the same does not hold true for Sony.

In reality, Xbox was actually a response to concerns of Sony taking over the living room.

What does my post have to do with Sony? They were not a concern of my response or what I was responding to.

.....I can't believe there are people that have such views.

I'm leaning on the PS2/GC/Xbox range in terms of performance based on rumored/known specs. Of course, with a focus on modern features and whatnot, which all three will have.

On another note, don't compare GPUs directly through FLOP rating. 600 GFLOPs vs 1800 GFLOPs =/= 3x performance. This is why on the PC front, you don't see people comparing GPUs via FLOP ratings. We do it through actual benchmarks.

An example of this would be an nvidia GeForce 8800/9800GT vs ATI Radeon HD4850, where the 4850 has 2x the FLOP rating of a 8800GT (~1000 GFLOPs vs ~500 GFLOPs) but it's nowhere near 2x as powerful as a 8800GT. They actually perform extremely similarly and in some cases, the 8800GT beats the 4850. Of course, this can be due to terribly bad drivers among other reasons, but in a console space, one can safely assume that there won't be any driver issues.

Check this tech-review for a more in-depth summary (through actual numbers): http://techreport.com/articles.x/18682/5

Basing performance purely on FLOP rating, a GTX480 should be only 1.2x as powerful as a 4850. Lol. Also, note GTX480 vs Radeon 5870.

I'm not saying I expect power to be generally the same among all three consoles, no. I fully expect PS4/Xbox3 to be more powerful than Wii U (for reasons more than just speculated/rumored specs). All I'm saying is that those who expect extremely drastic differences will be disappointed. It will not be a Wii vs PS360 case (it can't).

I also realize that we don't have much else aside from FLOP ratings of the GPUs to go on, so it's understandable that people will resort to comparing them directly via FLOP ratings. I'm sure BG knows this, as well. Just trying to make a point to those that are less-informed.

Oh yeah, there's also more to a console than just the GPU

Right. Which is why I always try to make sure I add "strictly" when making that kind of comparison.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

So this document is legit right, couse MS lawyers took it down?

 

[Karak]

So this document is legit right, couse MS lawyers took it down?

Seems legit enough and its old enough to be a first run at a proposal. Remember MS always has at least 2-4 proposals. They discussed that clearly in the documentation and book about the creation of the original xbox and the 360. They bounce around ideas just like this all the time. Aside from all the errors in grammar and spelling at the end it appears somewhat legit. People just need to remember that its a typical company that handles proposals and bids just like any other and not get to into the specifics...well as some of the specifics are pretty out there now.

 

[Cartman86]

So this will replace your cable box? Like a Tivo or Media center PC? Instead of going the pass-through route that Google went with Google TV? Obviously the downsides of pass-through is that the box can't integrate fully with the cable/satellite box simply through a display cable so you will still use your cable/satellite box UI and any other guide functionality through the Xbox would likely not support recording or DVR. That would have to be done through the cable/satellite UI.

What are the limitations of such a system? Do they need support from Comcast et al?

 

[Death Dealer]

So this document is legit right, couse MS lawyers took it down?

Someone on B3D said the only legal way MS could have had it removed so quickly was through the DMCA, and that only applies if you actually own the infringed intellectual property. So yeah, it looks like that legal action was good confirmation this wasn't a hoax.

I'm not saying I expect power to be generally the same among all three consoles, no. I fully expect PS4/Xbox3 to be more powerful than Wii U (for reasons more than just speculated/rumored specs). All I'm saying is that those who expect extremely drastic differences will be disappointed. It will not be a Wii vs PS360 case (it can't).

I also realize that we don't have much else aside from FLOP ratings of the GPUs to go on, so it's understandable that people will resort to comparing them directly via FLOP ratings. I'm sure BG knows this, as well. Just trying to make a point to those that are less-informed.

Why not ? Although I haven't signed any NDAs and have no inside information, it appears that many expect Wii-U to be quite a modest improvement over this generation. Much like how Wii was to the Gamecube. And if the Orbis rumors are correct, Sony is trying to aim for a "10x" order of magnitude improvement.
Now from talking with bgassassin, it seems like Wii-U will have an easier time than Wii with ports simply by virtue of having a modern conventional GPU. But I'm just wondering what's your rationale for saying Wii-U can't be like Wii vs PS3/X360 ? Do you mean in performance terms, or in feature set ? Maybe you're under NDA yourself ?

Also regarding FLOP comparisons, if both Durango and Orbis are using AMD GCN GPUs, the FLOPs should be comparable right ? It wouldn't be like Nvidia vs AMD when the actual ALUs are very different architectures.

 

[Raistlin]

Like patent 8083593 for DVR capability on a console.

If I could have my xbox replace my DVR, I would do it ASAP.

Yes, that would be the intent ... but it's actually much more. Regarding that particular patent though, it won't be granted, or if it has, it isn't defensible. Sony released PlayTV at the end of 2008



Regarding AllVid though, a little background is necessary.

The holy grail that TiVo and GoogleTV have been after is a single-point UI that allows the user to search, watch, and discover content regardless of its location. So let's say you want to watch an episode of Buffy. When you search for it, it will check your DVR, your local content (NAS, HDD, etc), free and subscription-based online services (Netflix, Hulu), and even the EPG for upcoming broadcasts. Basically you look for something and it will find it regardless of where it is.

Thus far, current tech and regulations have made it impossible, or at least not without massive limitations. In the case of TiVo, it's reliant on CableCard. That means no satelitte, and other than Comcast (who directly worked with TiVo), no VOD services from the cable provider. CableCard simply doesn't have that capability. For example I use Verizon FiOS for TV. And while I can get a TiVo and CableCard, I'd still need a Verizon set-top box to get VOD.

Google on the other hand went in a different direction. Instead of having a box with CableCard, it actually uses HDMI passthrough to overlay the UI (and therefore services like Netflix, etc) on top of the cable/sat DVR. They are instead reliant on using some sort of interface for command and control indexing of the DVR (this would typically be Ethernet or maybe even RS232). The problem is the cable/sat box needs to support such and interface and actually expose the capabilities in order for it to work. Most boxes out there don't even have the capability, and the ones that do aren't necessarily exposing the feature. So in the end GoogleTV has individually work with providers to get this tech out there and they've only scored one or two hits.


Enter AllVid

What AllVid yields is an open, licesensable protocol that would allow anyone that wants to make a set-top box be able to have it decode any cable or satellite providers broadcasts and VOD. So instead of being reliant on getting your set-top box from your provider (and therefore a Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, etc box), it could be made by anyone. Not only does this create a ton of competition for varying models ... it allows a ton of new features.

Since the box is handling the decode, EPG, indexing, etc. ... they can do whatever they want with it. All of a sudden, basically anyone can make what GoogleTV and TiVo have been after. A single-point UI that can access any of your content - be it TV, DVR, local media, online service, etc. So imagine an XBMC, Boxee, Plex, Roku, etc ... that also allows live TV viewing, searching of your DVR, etc.

AllVid is being pushed by the AllVid Tech Company Alliance, which includes some pretty heavy hitters in the CE industry like:

• Best Buy Co., Inc.
• Google Inc.
• Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America
• Nagravision
• SageTV, LLC
• Sony Electronics Inc.
• TiVo Inc.

Not surprising however, the National Cable and Telecommunications Association (NCTA) is dead set against this, and there's been a battle royal going on between both groups trying to convince the FCC on what to do.

The NCTA obviously hates this idea. Cable/sat companies won't be able to overcharge for set-top boxes and suddenly have major competition against their paid VOD services, broadcasts would be on an even playing field with other content providers which would likely impact ratings (and therefore advertising), and the implication of being able to use your set-top box with anything means that switching between content providers suddenly becomes a lot easier. That last point is pretty analogous to how cellular providers were fighting against the capability of easily (and freely) be able to transfer your number to different providers.



Here's an (admittedly old) thread talking about AllVid - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1275071/allvid-what-it-is-and-where-it-is-going

While it doesn't have up to date info on the proceedings, it shows how the battle lines where drawn and some of the arguments from both sides.



Last I had heard it looked like the FCC was leaning towards AllVid (as an interesting sidenote - AllVid actually was proposed by the FCC IIRC), but I'm having problems getting recent info. I will say one thing. If AllVid does not happen, basically kiss goodbye any chance of a 'perfect' set-top box. It will be technically impossible to do this sort of stuff without it.





Actually here's a recent panel discussion - http://thetvoftomorrowshow.com/video/allvid-debate

Just started watching it, but looks really informative so far.

 

[Cartman86]

I'm gonna feel real bad if this turns out not to be true. I want a device like this, but also I've been harping on it for months now.

Yes, that would be the intent ... .

Thank you. This is what I've been interested in getting to know more about.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

At least in the US, assuming the FCC passes AllVid as the replacement for CableCard as they are expected to late this year, 720 and other devices will be able to act as your cable/sat box and DVR regardless of provider.

I hadn't read about Allvid before. Seems like a really neat idea in the hope that a household would be able to have a single box that handles subscriptions to all the services, and then separate clients as playback devices. It would be really neat if it could be handled like a tree device. Say at the base of your client, you have devices detected on the network, then the next level would be all services aggregated by the device, then each service (OTA TV, HBO GO, HULU, and Netflix) and then each of those services breaks up content into trees however they like. That could either be handled by a generic client as a tree by the playback device, or a more advanced box (like a Tivo) could provide a unified household interface.

 

[bgassassin]

Why not ? Although I haven't signed any NDAs and have no inside information, it appears that many expect Wii-U to be quite a modest improvement over this generation. Much like how Wii was to the Gamecube. And if the Orbis rumors are correct, Sony is trying to aim for a "10x" order of magnitude improvement.
Now from talking with bgassassin, it seems like Wii-U will have an easier time than Wii with ports simply by virtue of having a modern conventional GPU. But I'm just wondering what's your rationale for saying Wii-U can't be like Wii vs PS3/X360 ? Do you mean in performance terms, or in feature set ? Maybe you're under NDA yourself ?

Also regarding FLOP comparisons, if both Durango and Orbis are using AMD GCN GPUs, the FLOPs should be comparable right ? It wouldn't be like Nvidia vs AMD when the actual ALUs are very different architectures.

It would be from using a modern GPU.

However all the consoles seem to be on track to have GPUs that emphasize compute capabilities (though I don't think Nintendo's will use GCN compute units). So Wii U would be in a position where it would handle ports from PS4 and Xbox 3 better than ports from PS360.

 

[Raistlin]

I hadn't read about Allvid before. Seems like a really neat idea in the hope that a household would be able to have a single box that handles subscriptions to all the services, and then separate clients as playback devices. It would be really neat if it could be handled like a tree device. Say at the base of your client, you have devices detected on the network, then the next level would be all services aggregated by the device, then each service (OTA TV, HBO GO, HULU, and Netflix) and then each of those services breaks up content into trees however they like. That could either be handled by a generic client as a tree by the playback device, or a more advanced box (like a Tivo) could provide a unified household interface.

Technically Allvid is about making (cable/sat) broadcast and VOD reception in the US entirely platform-agnostic (and that implies even tablets, phones, etc would be on the table as a decoder). It's something the FCC has been working on as part of their broadband initiative.

Actually the video I cited above at the end of my prior post probably does a better explanation. Here's a direct link. So far it seems like a good panel discussion but I'm only like 8 minutes in. I recommend checking it out.


The sorts of other things I was talking about regarding aggregation technically aren't the intent of AllVid, but fall out of its design as a great side effects. And since we already have companies trying to make those sorts of devices, it's obvious we'll see a ton of competition there if this pans out. TiVo and Google have been working on this, and even Boxee is moving towards it.

 

[shinra-bansho]

So what are the evidences for or against this being real or fake now?

From what I gather.

Fake:

• Doesn't look nice
• Uses XBOX 720 name
• Some points have proven wrong

Real:

• Law firm that's acted on behalf of Microsoft asked for removal
• Something about a Microsoft employee being linked to it?
• Some points bear resemblance to recent announcements (e.g. SmartGlass)

 

[Matt]

So what are the evidences for or against this being real or fake now?

From what I gather.

Fake:

• Doesn't look nice
• Uses XBOX 720 name
• Some points have proven wrong

Real:

• Law firm that's acted on behalf of Microsoft asked for removal
• Something about a Microsoft employee being linked to it?
• Some points bear resemblance to recent announcements (e.g. SmartGlass)

It's real.

 

[Plinko]

Also these cumulative figures don't play in the real world. The RROD losses were written off in 2007. They aren't a factor since. The only thing that counts is how are they doing now and what is the outlook...

If we're going to go there...

http://www.destructoid.com/microsoft-s-xbox-division-loses-229-million-226215.phtml

Microsoft's Xbox division loses $229 million

From April 20 of this year. I believe sales have dropped since then, no?

That said, I can't find that thread where we had this discussion and a GAFer had the figures. I'll quietly accept defeat on this one. Sorry for bringing it up without that thread as backup.

 

[StevieP]

How is that? This Gen we started at 90nm and ended I think at 45nm. Intel should be at 14 nm by 2014. Amd will be at 20nm when these consoles launch.

Half is still half. 90 /45 = 28/14

Read what Nvidia has to say about node shrinks recently. And thats only 22nm. Intel is a different story.

 

[Ryoku]

Why not ? Although I haven't signed any NDAs and have no inside information, it appears that many expect Wii-U to be quite a modest improvement over this generation. Much like how Wii was to the Gamecube. And if the Orbis rumors are correct, Sony is trying to aim for a "10x" order of magnitude improvement.
Now from talking with bgassassin, it seems like Wii-U will have an easier time than Wii with ports simply by virtue of having a modern conventional GPU. But I'm just wondering what's your rationale for saying Wii-U can't be like Wii vs PS3/X360 ? Do you mean in performance terms, or in feature set ? Maybe you're under NDA yourself ?

Also regarding FLOP comparisons, if both Durango and Orbis are using AMD GCN GPUs, the FLOPs should be comparable right ? It wouldn't be like Nvidia vs AMD when the actual ALUs are very different architectures.

As BG said, Wii U will have a modern architecture, and from what we can speculate, they will all emphasize GPGPU functions. Wii U is next-gen.

Regarding the bolded: Even still, you can only really predict with accuracy that higher FLOPs = more powerful. It becomes blurry when you want to find out "how powerful". It also depends on the games, and what those games push or sacrifice. It's very complex. An example would be 7870 vs 7850. A 7870 has ~1.5x the FLOP rating of a 7850, yet performance comparisons lead to the 7870 being around 1.2x as powerful (135 FPS vs 105 FPS) to negligibly more powerful (97 FPS vs 91 FPS, 30 vs 27, 94 vs 88, etc.).

 

[GarthVaderUK]

So what are the evidences for or against this being real or fake now?

From what I gather.

Fake:

• Doesn't look nice
• Uses XBOX 720 name
• Some points have proven wrong

Real:

• Law firm that's acted on behalf of Microsoft asked for removal
• Something about a Microsoft employee being linked to it?
• Some points bear resemblance to recent announcements (e.g. SmartGlass)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lHgbbM9pu4#t=30s

 

[shinra-bansho]

If we're going to go there...

http://www.destructoid.com/microsoft-s-xbox-division-loses-229-million-226215.phtml



From April 20 of this year. I believe sales have dropped since then, no?

That said, I can't find that thread where we had this discussion and a GAFer had the figures. I'll quietly accept defeat on this one. Sorry for bringing it up without that thread as backup.

Don't really need a thread to refer to. All MS financial results are public domain; from what's in their statements.

EDD FY results for year ended June 30:
2011 = 1.324B
2010 = 0.618B
2009 = 0.351B
2008 = 0.426B
2007 = -1.892B
2006 = -1.262B
Sum = -0.435B

2012 thus far = 0.352B + 0.528B - 0.229B

Sum = +0.216B

It's worth noting that EDD contains things like Windows Phone and Zune.

 

[Death Dealer]

As BG said, Wii U will have a modern architecture, and from what we can speculate, they will all emphasize GPGPU functions. Wii U is next-gen.

Regarding the bolded: Even still, you can only really predict with accuracy that higher FLOPs = more powerful. It becomes blurry when you want to find out "how powerful". It also depends on the games, and what those games push or sacrifice. It's very complex. An example would be 7870 vs 7850. A 7870 has ~1.5x the FLOP rating of a 7850, yet performance comparisons lead to the 7870 being around 1.2x as powerful (135 FPS vs 105 FPS) to negligibly more powerful (97 FPS vs 91 FPS, 30 vs 27, 94 vs 88, etc.).

Ok well thanks for replying it makes sense. And I didn't realize the practical application of FLOPs is that "fuzzy".

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Technically Allvid is about making (cable/sat) broadcast and VOD reception in the US entirely platform-agnostic (and that implies even tablets, phones, etc would be on the table as a decoder). It's something the FCC has been working on as part of their broadband initiative.

Actually the video I cited above at the end of my prior post probably does a better explanation. Here's a direct link. So far it seems like a good panel discussion but I'm only like 8 minutes in. I recommend checking it out.


The sorts of other things I was talking about regarding aggregation technically aren't the intent of AllVid, but fall out of its design as a great side effects. And since we already have companies trying to make those sorts of devices, it's obvious we'll see a ton of competition there if this pans out. TiVo and Google have been working on this, and even Boxee is moving towards it.

Just watched that panel discussion. Actually came off of it kind of angry.

It seems like a simple idea - separate the service ingress from the channel navigation and video decode. All of the arguments against seemed like FUD. If video was presented to all playback devices in the same manner (here's a table of all channels with flags for various things) and if you can choose the channel which will then be delivered via TCP and/or UDP to the playback device.

Of course there are a bunch of considerations that have to be taken into account, but nothing nearly as insurmountable as they'd like the audience to believe.

 

[infinityBCRT]

If we're going to go there...

http://www.destructoid.com/microsoft-s-xbox-division-loses-229-million-226215.phtml



From April 20 of this year. I believe sales have dropped since then, no?

That said, I can't find that thread where we had this discussion and a GAFer had the figures. I'll quietly accept defeat on this one. Sorry for bringing it up without that thread as backup.

I believe that includes stuff like Windows Phone though-- they dropped a crap ton of money between the deal with Nokia and the marketing of Mango/Lumia phones.

 

[Raistlin]

Just watched that panel discussion. Actually came off of it kind of angry.

It seems like a simple idea - separate the service ingress from the channel navigation and video decode. All of the arguments against seemed like FUD. If video was presented to all playback devices in the same manner (here's a table of all channels with flags for various things) and if you can choose the channel which will then be delivered via TCP and/or UDP to the playback device.

Of course there are a bunch of considerations that have to be taken into account, but nothing nearly as insurmountable as they'd like the audience to believe.

Agreed :\

It's quite obvious a majority of the resistance is due to losing control and revenue.

 

[McHuj]

Just something I found interesting while looking at these slides again. The notes for Slide 36 contain the following statement: "Remoting Server: With Xbox 720, you can even stream and play your AAA games remotely to any device. "

During CES, Mark Rein was on the Tested CES video cast and he talked about how cool it would be if MS found a new use for the 360 when the new one came out. In theory this could tie in to that and maybe he just wasn't speculating, play your 720 games on other TV's in the house that has a 360 hooked up by using them as an extender. That would be pretty cool IMO.

 

[dragonelite]

Just something I found interesting while looking at these slides again. The notes for Slide 36 contain the following statement: "Remoting Server: With Xbox 720, you can even stream and play your AAA games remotely to any device. "

During CES, Mark Rein was on the Tested CES video cast and he talked about how cool it would be if MS found a new use for the 360 when the new one came out. In theory this could tie in to that and maybe he just wasn't speculating, play your 720 games on other TV's in the house that has a 360 hooked up by using them as an extender. That would be pretty cool IMO.

Me as a gamer would love if microsoft released software so i can make the 360 a dedicated server i can use or others. Should have enough cpu juice to host 6 vs 6 matches?

 

[HigherLevel]

So just skimming through the last few pages this thing was real? Was there any mention of new games or first party games or anything like that?

 

[Brad Grenz]

Just something I found interesting while looking at these slides again. The notes for Slide 36 contain the following statement: "Remoting Server: With Xbox 720, you can even stream and play your AAA games remotely to any device. "

During CES, Mark Rein was on the Tested CES video cast and he talked about how cool it would be if MS found a new use for the 360 when the new one came out. In theory this could tie in to that and maybe he just wasn't speculating, play your 720 games on other TV's in the house that has a 360 hooked up by using them as an extender. That would be pretty cool IMO.

That was definitely one of the implied purposes of the "Xbox 361". Good recall on the Mark Rein comment, though. I do remember that.

 

[megarockexe]

The rumors of Microsoft buying OnLive would fit nicely with the surprise announcement and quick pulling of the Scribd document. Beans spilled?

 

[clashfan]

If we're going to go there...

http://www.destructoid.com/microsoft-s-xbox-division-loses-229-million-226215.phtml



From April 20 of this year. I believe sales have dropped since then, no?

That said, I can't find that thread where we had this discussion and a GAFer had the figures. I'll quietly accept defeat on this one. Sorry for bringing it up without that thread as backup.

Please stop pretending you know anything about corporate finance's.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

this one looks fake, so I will post this here.

http://www.shifted2u.com/shifted/in...ox-surface-details&catid=46:gaming&Itemid=138

 

[manzo]

this one looks fake, so I will post this here.

http://www.shifted2u.com/shifted/in...ox-surface-details&catid=46:gaming&Itemid=138

SCSI 10k disk drive and 22.2 surround? Ahahahahhaha

 

[StevieP]

this one looks fake, so I will post this here.

http://www.shifted2u.com/shifted/in...ox-surface-details&catid=46:gaming&Itemid=138

Made by the same minds who brought you the Sony leak, no doubt.
Power7 in a console... no.

 

[Raistlin]

'looks fake'? you don't say

 

[ekim]

this one looks fake, so I will post this here.

http://www.shifted2u.com/shifted/in...ox-surface-details&catid=46:gaming&Itemid=138

Fake, but I like the naming here.

 

[Corky]

"Video format output"

Whoops, dropped in a 16:10 pc monitor resolution in there by mistake ( 1200p ) among all the other 16:9 resolutions.

 

[canvee]

Supposedly double that. Those that probably called you that probably didn't expect MS to only use DDRx memory. I know I didn't.

Wow if the 8GB rumor is true, if that amount ends up being true, how likely do you think it is that Sony switches to 4GB? And if they decide to stay around 2GB, how will spec differences (XBOX weaker GPU/lots of ram vs PS4 powerful GPU/less ram) affect multi-platform games?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Ok well thanks for replying it makes sense. And I didn't realize the practical application of FLOPs is that "fuzzy".

Just remember all the mess when Xbox 360 and PS3 theoretical peak performances were revealed. Expect the same with Orbis and Durango, but the fact is we won't know how they fare against each other until we get some real-life comparisons using actual games. Isolated figures on paper mean very little.

 

[Miles X]

If we're going to go there...

http://www.destructoid.com/microsoft-s-xbox-division-loses-229-million-226215.phtml



From April 20 of this year. I believe sales have dropped since then, no?

That said, I can't find that thread where we had this discussion and a GAFer had the figures. I'll quietly accept defeat on this one. Sorry for bringing it up without that thread as backup.

Considering 360 sales arnt tied to the loss last Q (As others have said Nokia payout ec was too blame) 360 unit sales dropping doesn't mean = loss.

Glad someone posted the yearly breakdown. This'll be the 5th straight year of profit for the EDD.

 

[Ghost]

haha that Surface fact sheet, portable xbox with battery life 2x the Vitas! Damn those brilliant Microsoft geniuses

lol

 

[Black_Stride]

"Video format output"

Whoops, dropped in a 16:10 pc monitor resolution in there by mistake ( 1200p ) among all the other 16:9 resolutions.

I lost it at 720i.
But then i saw 1200p bwahahahaha, but wait theres more 1440p christ where do these kids get this stuff.

And do they actually believe they are fooling anyone?

 

[ekim]

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/14/3085126/microsoft-event-los-angeles-june-18th-windows-rt-tablets

Well... in 11 1/2 hours we may see the xbox361 or even the 720?

 

[DieH@rd]

SCSI 10k disk drive and 22.2 surround? Ahahahahhaha

22.2 surround sounds exists, but only as experimental tech for Japan's upcoming 8K television. Think of it as 3D version of current 7.1 systems. Instead of just 1 layer where you put your speekers, you get 3 layers that make a sphere of speakers around you. One layer for floor, center and ceiling of a room.

Xbox Surface is that table device that MS made, maybe they are making a new version with a smaller tablet controller. Still i think specs are fake.

 

[Corky]

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/14/3085126/microsoft-event-los-angeles-june-18th-windows-rt-tablets

Well... in 11 1/2 hours we may see the xbox361 or even the 720?

If only there was a better occasion to show off a gaming related console and or peripheral, somekind of conference where other companies also show their games/consoles/tech-gadgets.


Alas...

 

[Matt]

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/14/3085126/microsoft-event-los-angeles-june-18th-windows-rt-tablets

Well... in 11 1/2 hours we may see the xbox361 or even the 720?

No.