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Rumor: Leaked document detailing MS future plans for the Xbox line. 56 pages long.
- Thread starter bgassassin
- Start date
At this point, guessing that the console may be powerful is a plunge of faith that may as well mocked by others here, who seem to know everything it seems, as over optimism.
On the flip side, I was thinking the same thing. The devs don't want the RAM constraint to be first, immediate and obvious weak-link from day 1 of development.
I'm not saying that 2GB is enough I'm just saying a year ago everyone was singing a different tune anytime someone said anything about 4 or more GB in Next Gen Consoles.
There's still a chance we won't see more than 2Gb of GDDR5 IMO.
With a split pool, you can have more overall memory if you use a combo of GDDR5 and DDR3 instead of just using GDDR5.
I'm not holding my breath on either providing BC at this point.
in a Console 4GB of GDDR5 >> 8GB of DDR3 as far as games go. but in the case of the Next Xbox I think it was better to go with the 8GB of DDR3 or DDR4 because the games are just a small part of what MS wanted from the start & was just a good way to get Windows into the living room of every home PlayStation was a big threat to the everyday PC since it was getting into the living rooms & someday would give people all the little things that they used there PC's for like the internet & entertainment. but somehow Apple & Smart Phones stole the show while MS was watching Sony & the PlayStation pretending to be a video game console. now they have to go all in as the new all in one entertainment box for your living room & on the go as a server for your Tablets & Smart Phones, MS & Sony are not fighting for who can give you the best graphics it's about getting their services to you & right now the biggest threat is Apple with the iDevices, Sony might go for the better graphics as a way to keep the living room from Apple TV & the connections with your iDevices but MS is going for what they know & giving you a easy to use PC for your living room that will compete with Apple TV , Google TV & hope that people don't become satisfied with the Smart TVs because now even the TVs are a threat themselves. so giving you the best user interface is more important to MS & that means having a Kinect controlled windows 8 box for the living room.
it's not about games for Microsoft or Sony that's why they never worry about Nintendo.
Sony came to the Gaming industry to help sell CDs & so on MS came to stop Sony from being the all in one box for your living room that would hurt Windows , Apple said fuck the living room we taking over the world here is some cheap ass games to keep your mind off of them other fools that's fighting over the TV.
yeah I know & going with a split pool with slower ram goes against what Sony is going for because they want the CPU & GPGPU to work together at it's highest rate & with the slow ram they would have to work together at a slower rate. which kinda kill the point of having the GPGPU & CPU on the same chip.
This isn't necessarily true.
Edit:
We really don't know what MS and Sony want to do. Nothing more than rumors and speculation has surfaced so far.
really? so why are they wasting space & money on putting small amounts of GDDR3/4/5 on GPUs when they can just let the GPU share the 8 & 16GBs of DDR3 that people have on their PCs or put large amounts of DD3 on the GPUs?
actually we do know what they want to do from the road maps & a lot of interviews ,rumors & speculations we just don't know what they are going to do.
From what I understood about GDDR5 and PS4 and the potential battle for 4GB as opposed to 2GB is that it's cost and not tech dependent. One needs only to look at the comparatively small GPU board where manufacturers have fit up to 8GB or 32 GDDR5 chips.
So at the end of the day, it comes down much loss is Sony willing to eat once more per console at launch and how fast they can turn it around to black.
I don't know if Sony, like Nintendo, can survive or thrive only with its first party games but if third parties once again start releasing gimped ports on PS4 due to RAM constraints, then Sony would have learned nothing given third party games account for majority of games sold today on PS3 and 360.
So at the end of the day, it comes down much loss is Sony willing to eat once more per console at launch and how fast they can turn it around to black.
I don't know if Sony, like Nintendo, can survive or thrive only with its first party games but if third parties once again start releasing gimped ports on PS4 due to RAM constraints, then Sony would have learned nothing given third party games account for majority of games sold today on PS3 and 360.
You can't compare the memory configuration of a PC to that of a console.
I've both read and heard both opinions, and really it seems like the balance is key here IMO. I'm sure if you ask a dev which would they rather have: 2GBs of GDDR5 or 4GB of DDR3, they would say the GDDR5 set up. However that answer may change if you up the amount of slower memory to a larger amount like 8GB + buffer to mitigate bandwidth issues.
That's exactly my point.
manzo
Member
Has this really been confirmed? From B3D:
According to lherre, the are some Xbox dev kits that already have a 7000 series Radeon. And the final hardware could end up with a 8000 series Radeon. The russian "insider" seem to suggest the latest dev kits have TWO Radeon 8000. If the 360 dev kits are any indication, as they also had teo GPUs, this could mean the Xbox 3 GPU is omething hybrid more advanced than the GPUs which are currently available.
We don't know what level 7000 there is, it can be the same or even faster than the PS4 7000 series GPU. We just don't know. Also, if this "russian insider" rumour is true, that would make the 720 quite a lot beefier than PS4.
I'd say it's way too early to guess which console will have the better GPU.
joshwaan
Member
Hell yeah this is what I want to hear I want a powerful little beast
Quick question 8000 series is Code name SeaIslands what does 8000 Introduce that 7000 series does not have?
manzo
Member
Hell yeah this is what I want to hear I want a powerful little beast
Quick question 8000 series is Code name SeaIslands what does 8000 Introduce that 7000 series does not have?
If it's a low-end 8000 series, it can be even slower than a 7970. The GPU being 8000 series doesn't really tell anything.
Also: rumors, rumors rumors.
http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/96292.html
I called BS on this for the simple reason he claimed that this was the real picture of the chip
I called BS on this for the simple reason he claimed that this was the real picture of the chip
but it's the same picture of a chip that was used in the fake slide before.
jeff_rigby
Banned
6000 series to 7000 series 1.4 times as efficientHell yeah this is what I want to hear I want a powerful little beast
Quick question 8000 series is Code name SeaIslands what does 8000 Introduce that 7000 series does not have?
7000 series to 8000 series 1.2 times as efficient
You can take the above as applying to both PS4 and Xbox 720 but that may just mean a down-scaled GPU with the same performance for cost or heat budget. In any case I agree a 8000 series is likely. You see the trend in efficiency is leveling off as far as hardware design. Waiting for a 9000 series may give 1.10 or less performance increase and is not worth the wait.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Actually, from looking at the picture, it's a AMD GPU 3 DDR interfaces (192 bit wide) (the other picture has the memory interfaces going to a GPU so in that case GDDR, I can't recognize the difference) with 4 X86 processors and a 22nm Southbridge/I/O support at the bottom right. The 22nm support chip on bottom right makes it a 2013 design APU but probably not a Xbox720 SOC (all on one die and not SOC or "building block" design).http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/96292.html
I called BS on this for the simple reason he claimed that this was the real picture of the chip but it's the same picture of a chip that was used in the fake slide before.
The following picture is of an older AMD GPU that has a larger version of Southbridge (left of center bottom):
Turned? Al kidding a side, that's what I expect. I wrote it a couple of months ago, so I am not flip flopping. Simply MS can take a loss, Sony can't. They can push it higher. They just want that living room. If Sony ends up with more powerful system I am going to be shocked.
For some reason I wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 ended up more powerful. =p
yup I was about to write the same.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Two Radeon HD 8000? That could mean anything, what if they use two Radeon HD 8350? ^^
Interesting blog.
LOL.
Don't bother. Link is a couple of posts above.
GlamFM
Banned
YES! (NO)
joshwaan
Member
I'm with you Globox_82 about MS next console I really want to see MS do a powerful console like this gen minus the RROD's and have killer titles out on launch, But I see Sony doing this and MS just giving us COD and GOW while these games are fantastic IMO it's not enough at launch.
I hope they do not ignore the core gamer I could see them releasing kid friendly kinect games and like 2 or 3 decent games at launch I'll be fucking pissed if that happens.
I hope they do not ignore the core gamer I could see them releasing kid friendly kinect games and like 2 or 3 decent games at launch I'll be fucking pissed if that happens
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R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
Whenever this is brought up, I like to link this article/interview with Masaaki Tsuruta:
http://eandt.theiet.org/news/2011/dec/sony-gaming.cfm
http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2011/12/maasaki-tsu-interview.cfm
Now, it doesn't have to be about Orbis but about its successor, but it goes hand in hand with recent comments about Sony not wanting to show their next generation system before a substantial leap can be demonstrated.
As for those rumors about Sea Islands chips in Durango, that's some juicy stuff. Rumored to be focused much on GPGPU acceleration, HSA and Faraday efficiency, right? Was something more about that mentioned, if it was low-end or high-end in the SDKs?
iamshadowlark
Banned
Its not really about taking a loss though. MS and Sony have pretty much the same limits and both of them can easily hit them without spending a fortune.
jeff_rigby
Banned
This is not directed at you Globox_82 but there is allot of bullshit flying. We can't even confirm if Xbox 3 is X86 or PPC but we now KNOW how many and what power of the individual GPU and CPU parts < sarcasm>. In order of confidence:
Both are using AMD GPU and identical support/Southbridge I/O. This means all the accessories/phones/tablets and 3D LCD glasses have the same interface. The GPU will be the same series and as powerful as can fit a heat budget. Most likely the same unless there is to be a second GPU outside the SOC.
The biggest possible difference is memory size (provided memory is outside the SOC). Both will use the same interface and that will likely be a custom (buss width) LPDDR3 connected to custom width LPDDR3 memory (probably 256 bit wide). If there is a second GPU outside the SOC then GDDR5 custom memory (256 bit wide) connected to both SOC and second GPU.
CPU because AMD HSA can support multiple CPUs could be X86 or PPC or PPC+SPU but this is first generation and AMD has done the work creating libraries to support X86 HSA Games and OS. I would be willing to bet that BOTH Sony and Microsoft are using X86 and likely the same type and number. Again, to fit the max they can for a heat budget.
Point is they will be exactly the same because of design constraints unless one decides to cheapen the design for cost reasons. Since that would be suicide considering all else being equal I don't think that is happening. Having a CPU + GPU and not a fusion design which would allow for more powerful CPU and GPU (heat dissipation) would require nearly 40% more GPU elements and a much more powerful CPU to equal a FUSION much less expensive design so I don't see that happening.
Do you see the point, many of the RUMORS are absurd.
I don't think next generation is going to be about having more power for the core gamer, both will target 10X+, whatever they can pack into a AMD Fusion SOC and AMD will insure that both get everything possible as "AMD is betting the farm" and it's in AMD's interest that both are showcases for HSA.
Both Sony are Microsoft are going to make money on the 800 million New CE networked consumers from now to 2016. A large percentage of them are going to be first time and thus casual gamers and some are going to move on to AAA hard core games. There is room for both.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Yes, and both will have a Kinect style motion/gesture detection and both will have speech recognition. Both gesture and Speech benefit from a larger database to make comparisons so a more accurate and larger vocabulary will require more RAM, same for Motion detection. This might be the biggest difference if there is more ram in one system.
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
I also believe Microsoft can afford to build a bigger better box but who knows if they actually will or not.....soooooooo much FUD and rumors and no one really knows anything, who knows if the specs are even finalized!
seattle6418
Member
It´s looking more and more like they will be doing me too boxes that will not have much difference.
They see that multiplataform games set the tone, and they don´t want uncompatible systems.
They will try to differenciate themselves in other areas. I expect both of them to be quite similar.
They see that multiplataform games set the tone, and they don´t want uncompatible systems.
They will try to differenciate themselves in other areas. I expect both of them to be quite similar.
SpongeBob NoPants
Member
Hmmm...
The more I think about it, the more Im inclined to believe that the way its going to play out is something like:
1) Gamers expect announcement of the nextbox at E3. Theyre pretty disappointed at the ensuing silence.
2) Microsoft take note and realise that, even if their new console will technically outclass the Wii U, they cant afford to give Nintendo too much of a head-start.
3) They leak a horribly outdated document confirming that they are working on a new machine and that it will usher in a new era of gaming, in the hope that many gamers will put off buying a Wii U and wait for their new console.
4) Within months of the Wii U hitting the shelves, the nextbox will be formally revealed, minus the more aspirational features referred to in the leaked document.
5) Gamers wail and gnash their teeth (in a Biblical display of histrionics) because this wasnt what they were waiting for. Microsoft act innocent and say that they cant understand the fuss because the missing features may have been ideas that were discussed internally, but they were never formally announced to the public.
6) Hopefully, from a Microsoft point of view, gamers experience catharsis by ranting on the forums (they do that, you know) and then, in a moment of rare tranquility, figure that the new Microsoft console is still a little more cutting edge than Nintendos...
...and thats where the money gets spent in the Holiday season of 2014.
The more I think about it, the more Im inclined to believe that the way its going to play out is something like:
1) Gamers expect announcement of the nextbox at E3. Theyre pretty disappointed at the ensuing silence.
2) Microsoft take note and realise that, even if their new console will technically outclass the Wii U, they cant afford to give Nintendo too much of a head-start.
3) They leak a horribly outdated document confirming that they are working on a new machine and that it will usher in a new era of gaming, in the hope that many gamers will put off buying a Wii U and wait for their new console.
4) Within months of the Wii U hitting the shelves, the nextbox will be formally revealed, minus the more aspirational features referred to in the leaked document.
5) Gamers wail and gnash their teeth (in a Biblical display of histrionics) because this wasnt what they were waiting for. Microsoft act innocent and say that they cant understand the fuss because the missing features may have been ideas that were discussed internally, but they were never formally announced to the public.
6) Hopefully, from a Microsoft point of view, gamers experience catharsis by ranting on the forums (they do that, you know) and then, in a moment of rare tranquility, figure that the new Microsoft console is still a little more cutting edge than Nintendos...
...and thats where the money gets spent in the Holiday season of 2014.
And I'll add to the end of 6....."little more cutting edge than Nintendo's, and even if it wasn't they'd buy it anyway because really, were they ever NOT going to?"
Silly.Mikey
Banned
I say cut costs on the processor, and beef up the GPU and ram.
But you're not MS. They have a set or priorities that they want to complete with this newest box, and it amounts to more than being a gaming console.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Yes and if there's one thing that could have helped speed up the general speed of the updated 360 dashboards throughout the years and app performance in general is more ram. More ram is useful to more than just games, whereas a decent processor will do the job fine regardless.
Sarcasm? I can't tell anymore...
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Right, they realize that only after this E3, the same E3 at which Nintendo absolutely blew away both the gamers and the press with their sublime showing. Then they jump into a Chron-o-John and go back in time to supply developers with devkits and, while they're at it, schedule a Durango development conference.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
That Russian The Insider stuff is bull. I would love the Durango specs he is posting but dude is a troll. It´s too obvious.
If all the rumors that MS listened to Epic and Crytek and improved the Durango specs are rested on this guy i call bullshit on all of them and really fear that the new Xbox is indeed the cheap weakling that the MS 2010 document shows.
If all the rumors that MS listened to Epic and Crytek and improved the Durango specs are rested on this guy i call bullshit on all of them and really fear that the new Xbox is indeed the cheap weakling that the MS 2010 document shows.