SpongeBob NoPants
Member
Fair enough. So why do you think the document was leaked and why do you think it was leaked now?
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Rumor: Leaked document detailing MS future plans for the Xbox line. 56 pages long.
- Thread starter bgassassin
- Start date
Fair enough. So why do you think the document was leaked and why do you think it was leaked now?
Sure, the russian dude is a troll, but... There is nothing "cheap" about the media centre proposed in the 2010 document. Things have changed since then as well, obviously, but it's extremely ambitious.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
The specs are weak. If it´s good enough for you, nice for you. But after eight years 6* the 360 is a major disappointment.
But i still have faith that the final specs will be much improved.
Honestly I'm not sure if I get this line of thinking. If you care that much about specs, you'd be gaming on a PC, no? You can customize the specs to your liking and have games run way better than they would on consoles.
These boxes are made to be mass-market devices. The scope of the next Xbox goes far beyond gaming, and both its price, included peripherals, and functionality will reflect it.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Its dissapointing because we all know that we'll be playing it for the next 6-7 years without any upgrades whatsoever. If the 360 is any indication, the next console would only benefit from having better specs. MS contantly update their dasboards, apps, added things on 360 that im sure they werent even sure of when the specs were first confirmed. But having it how it is now helped make the 360 the multimedia console that it is today. Having a more powerful well designed next gen console can only "future proof" it even more especially considering the fact that they like adding and updating it regularly.
trust me 6X Xbox 360 graphics will be good enough for more people than it will not be good enough for.
most people TVs will be 1080P so the console don't have to push out a much higher res than before like the jump between PS2/Xbox/GC to PS3\Xbox 360 so this will be like the SNES/PS2 stage of HD where the devs are giving more power to work with & come in terms with HD games like SNES devs was with 2D & PS2 devs was with polygons in SD.
unless there is a big jump to 4K & Glasses free 3D there is no way people are going to be looking at games that look 6X better than what we have today on 1080P TVs & saying this look bad I can't play this it's just not enjoyable with these graphics unless the PS4 games look like freaking Pixar movies & just mess up peoples minds in the next few years.
people all over the world are enjoying Angry Birds in 2012 & NeoGaf is crying about 6X Xbox 360 graphics?
most people TVs will be 1080P so the console don't have to push out a much higher res than before like the jump between PS2/Xbox/GC to PS3\Xbox 360 so this will be like the SNES/PS2 stage of HD where the devs are giving more power to work with & come in terms with HD games like SNES devs was with 2D & PS2 devs was with polygons in SD.
unless there is a big jump to 4K & Glasses free 3D there is no way people are going to be looking at games that look 6X better than what we have today on 1080P TVs & saying this look bad I can't play this it's just not enjoyable with these graphics unless the PS4 games look like freaking Pixar movies & just mess up peoples minds in the next few years.
people all over the world are enjoying Angry Birds in 2012 & NeoGaf is crying about 6X Xbox 360 graphics?
Glorified G
Member
With that logic, why even put out more powerful consoles at all? I guess ms/sony/nintendo are just wasting millions to engineer new consoles when people all over the world are enjoying angry birds.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I am sure this is a thought that has been floated in both MS and Sony HQ more than a few times.
Eh. The problem is that more "future proof" costs money today, and a lot of it. I'm talking billions of dollars. To you it's no big deal - you're gonna spend the $300 or whatever for your unit, obviously you want more for your money. But is it worth it for MS to "future proof" the system for some unknown updates if it means spending billions of dollars today? Especially when a lot of this great multimedia functionality requires very little in hardware - you can run XBMC off a friggin $25 computer today.
oh they are not in a hurry to neither but they have to be prepared & not let a newer console from the other companies come out & take away the software sells because of newer & better features.
How much "specs" do we need to run DVR in the background while we're playing Halo 5?
Just a side note here, but
a) all of the next gen consoles are going to be "outdated" on release
b) by the time their time is up, the cloud is going to be far more common and bandwidth penetration higher. You don't need a jet-engine-sounding box for that.
Nope. My PC is much, much more powerful than just 6x 360, and it would struggle to run Agni's Philosphy. Star Wars 1313? It will--just not at 100% the fidelity you saw it at. That was on a PC.
a old computer with 252MB of main ram & a Nvidia GeForce 7800 with 252MB of vRam can't run a game that looks & play like the Last Of Us or GT5 neither.
diffusionx
Gold Member
But a computer from 2006 - a Core 2 Duo and 8800GT - can, and better than the PS3 could.
Consoles obviously don't have the overhead of a PC but they can't invent computing performance out of thin air. If Agni needs XYZ of computing power to run and the 720 only has 70% of XYZ then it can't do it.
What's your point? I'm saying that my system which vastly outclasses PS360 and their [rumored] successors will be much more capable than those systems themselves. Of course, given equivalent power, the consoles will shine against a PC. That wasn't the point.
First off, it was a tech-demo. A game-like environment is much more demanding. Also, contrary to popular belief, Beyond isn't a technical marvel. It looks damn good, that's for sure. But it still isn't a technical marvel. There are many shortcuts involved in order to give it that look, as are most graphically-intense console games (being an interactive cutscene is one of those). They hide low-res textures, so most of the things you focus on are decent res-textures, for example. Shadows will be absent from many things outside of your view or things you won't directly focus on (again, being an interactive cutscene helps tremendously with this), as will be proper lighting. Levels are generally small coupled with low draw-distance in order to save processing power. These are the kind of shortcuts you can expect from consoles. Crysis from 2007 still shits on basically every console game that has been out, Beyond included (except for facial animation, for sure).
If you take a look at how much tessellation and dynamic lighting is involved, as well as shadows, you'd understand why it's so damn demanding. The beard of that old man alone involves so much tessellation and shadowing. Particle shadowing is also very demanding. 720p, 30fps with noticeable downscaling can definitely be done on what rumored specs we've settled upon thus far. Also, expect many of the "effects" to be done through short-cuts. This saves processing power that can be used for other things like texture resolution. It wouldn't look shitty, by any means. But it also won't look like what you saw at just a lower resolution and frame-rate.
the point is you can't say what can't be done on the console just because it can't be done on your PC at the moment.
bgassassin
Member
http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/
Hello neogaf
June 26th, 20:23
Yes, i am Sony hater for their lie and brainwashing about PS3 power.
Most of neogafers still beleive in Sony PR and don't have a clue what is really going on MS side.
Latest Sony's talks suggest they changed their plan and will release PS4 later than Xbox next.
For me that is all inline with everything insider already told and that is because they have no power to beat xbox next. They will try RnD more. Or wait when xbox720 level parts will be available from standart PC components with low energy consumption.
Attempt to conquer next xbox will bankrupt Sony. Don't you know MS already registered sony-microsoft.com and microsoft-sony.com?
Next xbox have very effective CPU+GPU design on every watt of energy and chip size. MS&AMD&IBM cook this design for already 6 years and spend 1 billion on it. That tech will not be available on PC market for several years after release.
MS have all rights on this design and can ship it cheap compared to PC prices. You should not calc console power, effectiveness, size and power consuption with PC methods.
The only way to survive for Sony i see is to merge with Apple in console business.
MS has all under control and try make Sony even more red acting very smart. This picture summorises it all. Sony will be punished for their lie and brainwashing. Japanies just can't fair play. Beleive.
PS. I am not an insider. I just talk with him. The actuall insider is a game developer. He is Asian by roots that is why he has so bad english. me personaly have bad english too but who cares. Everyone who wants see the truth. Also n4g admins have Sony influence on them. try to watch closelly and you will see that.
LMAO!
If the PC vastly outclasses the consoles, then yes, I can.
not when you don't even know the requirements for the game that you are saying will not be able to run on a console 6X the power of the 360 & you don't even know what's possible on your PC because no one has made a game that take full advantage of the hardware that's inside it.
Proelite
Member
Two things for it being pretty true:
1. Console market determines how advanced most devs are willing to go on the visual tech. It's not a surprise that we are seeing such jump in graphical fidelity from big names such as ubisoft and Lucasarts because we are the cusp of a new generation.
2. As you so aptly mentioned before, it's almost coding to the metal. That said, the overhead this time is going to be larger given how media focussed MS wants their next box to be.
Proelite, your presence is requested in the "other" thread.
bgassassin
Member
Yeah. That confirms all of his info is legit.
You're blatantly changing the argument, here. Talk about a red herring.
If a PC can't handle something, and that PC is leagues ahead of a console, no shit the console won't be able to handle that (my Crysis example). You can't avoid that. Of course, you'll have better optimization, but optimization =/= stronger hardware. I feel as if I'm reiterating what I've been saying in my last couple of posts (because I am). I'm done here.
Whatever will come to the next-gen consoles, a high-end PC will be able to do it much better, and this is what I'm looking forward to the next-gen the most. The increase in console hardware will allow devs to also push the PC. Why? Because there is simply much more power. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate what consoles have to offer. I don't intend to start a war between PCs and consoles, as even I am a PC and console gamer. I'm just trying to put things into perspective.
A pc is not a closed platform optimized machine like a console is. Plus games are written for and optimized to run on the metal on consoles. This is not possible with pcs, so games are often optimized for the lowest common denominator or honestly...never at all despite popular myth.
Apples to oranges, a console doesnt need 1:1 specs to match pc performance. This is very, very old news.
Just look at new console releases today that look flat out amazing and fun solid fps, on 2005 hardware. 7 year old hardware.
He makes some good points.
jeff_rigby
Banned
IF true
SOI -28nm might indicate PPC as AMD is going all bulk process Edit: AMD is SOI for Advanced designs
8 VMX128 cores (Math FPUs not CPUs), I guess this is where the 16 CPU cores rumor come from as 8VMX + 2x 4SMT = 8VMX + 8CPUs=16 Could be jaguar as rumors have Jaguar with FPUs.
2X4smt sounds more like Jaguar except for the 3.8Ghz and SOI. Edit: possible as high end is SOI and older Jaguar specs were for handheld low power
The picture looks like 4 bulldozer X86 cores not 2 packages of 4CPUs, each package with it's own L2 cache and Xbar switch to the main memory buss and there is no eDRAM in the picture and only a 3 DDRX (192 bit buss) which would waste a eDRAM bandwidth. Edit: The picture does not match specs but is a Fusion X86 APU.
I'd guess SOI is necessary for the 8 CPUs @ 3.8 Ghz and 28nm as they will get hot.
So Asian talking to Russian translating to English with a bias against Sony. Picture is of a current AMD X86 APU and does not match the specs that are supposed to be associated with it.
120meg eDRAM and 8 VMX cores sound like good choices for a game console.
Long Link to Excel file
Seems to be an official MS document.
Goto sheet "Electronics" and scroll to the end.
So Xbox-720 name confirmed?
Could also be nothing.
Seems to be an official MS document.
Goto sheet "Electronics" and scroll to the end.
So Xbox-720 name confirmed?
Could also be nothing.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
They are outdated on release yes, but think of it this way: What would 360 be today if it had shipped with its 256mb of ram instead of the 512? Thats the type of difference that can happen here too if they dont do it right.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about fanboy culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in the real world where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw over a fanboy, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the fanboy public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase the PS3 from Sony, nor will they purchase the PS4. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Sony has alienated an entire market with this move.
Sony, publicly apologize for running over the Russian fanboy's puppy or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Looking through his blog, I just don't understand how anyone can take him seriously, anything he "predicted" not only hasn't happened but some of it is just stuff that we already knew about before he made a post about the subject.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Stephen Colbert
Banned
Seeing how much butt ARM and PowerVR are kicking and how cheap they are.
A part of me wants a $199-299 Windows 8 Mobile based Xbox packing a 16 core cortex a15 cpu, 4gbs of fast ram, and 6th generation 16 core PowerVR gpu. Oh and yeah XBMC support!
With a set up like that, MS could drop the price down to $99 by 2014-2015.
A part of me wants a $199-299 Windows 8 Mobile based Xbox packing a 16 core cortex a15 cpu, 4gbs of fast ram, and 6th generation 16 core PowerVR gpu. Oh and yeah XBMC support!
With a set up like that, MS could drop the price down to $99 by 2014-2015.
iamshadowlark
Banned
I don't see how this would work well for MS outside the US.
jeff_rigby
Banned
It may not. Different strategy, Sony was pushing Allvid because it would work with all their platforms; RVU is a fall back position. Cable companies have resisted and Allvid is stalled. Microsoft is apparently trying to work with cable companies. This is just US. This is why I expect both Xbox 360 and PS3 new hardware revisions to support HDMI Pass-thru. Allvid has been stalled, with Allvid, HDMI pass-thru is not needed. With RVU the living room TV is connected to a DVR box that serves using RVU the rest of the house. Living room TV needs HDMI pass-thru.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TSNuNB&sig=AHIEtbTrpZC7JggVRLNFmGF-RXq8RhP26Q
Stealth20k
Banned
if its an option, fine whatever, but if its the only thing, its going to flame out
Is that for the Xbox 8?.
Latest rumors suggest 6-8x more powerful.
Hmm... interesting. It seems like a Rift with AR capabilities plus a method for having the user adjust the focal point as if he's watching stuff in the real world.
specialguy
Banned
This may be a guide of some of their overarching themes, but so far it seems to be more powerful (judging by 6870/6950 in dev kit, 8GB RAM, etc).
My theory is the engineers/gaming side weighed in on this project and deemed it to need more umph.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
Sorry for the bump but does anyone have a copy of the actual leaked document? I'm looking to read the entire thing.
Thanks.
Edit:
Found this post funny after I realized who the guy in my avatar is.
Thanks.
Edit:
Found this post funny after I realized who the guy in my avatar is.
Green Yoshi
Member
FORTALEZA REVOLUTION
One Box? Interesting stuff.
"Journalists" must have been very surprised on Tuesday. Not.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Yoshi pls
Miles Quaritch
Member
They got the A/V form factor, but where was the green?