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[GermanZepp]

The idea of new IP's always thirlls me

 

[Kadayi]

Recent Game is legitimately dope. Sales wise too early to honestly say how it will fare given it only released a week or so ago and the industry as a whole is suffering from the attention vacuum created by RDR2 so I wouldn't be so quick to call it a bust. The word of mouth is strong on it.


As for IOI and MS. It wouldn't be a bad fit. Studio has been going for many years and despite the poor sales reception of Hitman 1 due to trying episodic they generally make good product and MS support can only benefit them in that regard.

 

[Pallas]

This would be a good fit I think, Hitman series has been well but appears to be on the decline sales wise, it could get a rebirth/reboot with new innovation. IO are quality devs too so I’m sure they can work on other stuff as well.

Can we stop the “Microsoft will just close them in x amount of years” prophecies lol

 

[phil_t98]

This would be a good fit I think, Hitman series has been well but appears to be on the decline sales wise, it could get a rebirth/reboot with new innovation. IO are quality devs too so I’m sure they can work on other stuff as well.

Can we stop the “Microsoft will just close them in x amount of years” prophecies lol

its like people just think Microsoft buy the studio with the intension of closing them, they buy them to make games and if it doesn't work then they close them just like sony does. it happens with game publishers to, remember Bizarre creations that activison bought, was doing great things on xbox at the time then activision bought them and made them me a couple of ok games and shut them down. probably why we don't have PGR in back compat at moment

 

[Clear]

The thing is though, the difference between buying a studio and paying them to exclusively work on a project/series of projects is that the former means the purchaser owns any and all IP, past and present.

Ownership is primarily about buying and controlling IP, because in these days tech is largely irrelevant due to the prevalence of third party engines (deepening if a corporate tech strategy is in place) ond staff and their expertise are free to leave as and when they choose.

The usual outcome Is a loss of identity, especially when the parent decides that the studio branding is of less importance than the IP name and their own corporate label. For example, IO becomes MS Studio Copenhagen. And as we know from history, once a studio becomes a corporate unit, its just another chess-piece on the board and can easily be sacrificed if the overall strategy demands it.

Bottom line, its better than going under but rarely desirable. Because if the current management/direction has gotten a studio into the state where a buy-out is appealing, they are unlikely to last long under corporate scrutiny.

 

[badboyyy]

yeah its good to have more studios in your portfolio list, but another thing is great games, their new games comes maybe in 2020-2021 and of course microsoft push for the earliest date to come, because all people hyping like always, and if their games will be great? we dont know.

 

[CeeJay]

The thing is though, the difference between buying a studio and paying them to exclusively work on a project/series of projects is that the former means the purchaser owns any and all IP, past and present.

Ownership is primarily about buying and controlling IP, because in these days tech is largely irrelevant due to the prevalence of third party engines (deepening if a corporate tech strategy is in place) ond staff and their expertise are free to leave as and when they choose.

The usual outcome Is a loss of identity, especially when the parent decides that the studio branding is of less importance than the IP name and their own corporate label. For example, IO becomes MS Studio Copenhagen. And as we know from history, once a studio becomes a corporate unit, its just another chess-piece on the board and can easily be sacrificed if the overall strategy demands it.

Bottom line, its better than going under but rarely desirable. Because if the current management/direction has gotten a studio into the state where a buy-out is appealing, they are unlikely to last long under corporate scrutiny.

I don't believe that it's a clear cut as that and I am sure that Microsoft would have done enough due diligence to make sure they are going into a deal with an achievable outcome, they don't buy a studio with an intention to close it down. The reason for IOI not doing great is for numerous reasons but it's certainly not from a lack of quality in their work. I bought Hitman 2016 but haven't bought the latest one, mainly due to not having enough time to put into it in a packed holiday period. If it's anything like the previous one then the new one will have some good long legs on it and will hopefully do alright over a longer period. A big issue that I think IOI have had with the latest Hitman has been exposure, I have seen no advertising for it at all for the game which is going to have a big effect on sales. I think Hitman as part of Gamepass could be something that will really shine and the previous episodic nature is perfect for the platform and will keep people coming back for a little taste of it each time a new map is released or a new elusive target appears. And, I think that puts the issues into a nutshell, I always found that I liked to play Hitman in short bursts rather than a prolonged playthrough from start to finish and that is probably keeping me from buying it right now.

 

[Clear]

I don't believe that it's a clear cut as that and I am sure that Microsoft would have done enough due diligence to make sure they are going into a deal with an achievable outcome, they don't buy a studio with an intention to close it down.

Its not that clean cut, but, ownership gives the OPTION of closing a studio down if it fails to hit its targets, while retaining its assets and IP's. And as we all know, the longer the timeline stretches the more probable some sort of failure or corporate re-organization becomes.

Its not the worst thing in the world, but it is what it is. There's no "free lunch" here, its a business deal where independence is exchanged for short to mid-term security.

 

[Silent Viper]

The problem I have with Microsoft just buying up developers is that they can easily make the same mistakes that caused them to run Lionhead, FASA, Bizarre, and Bungie into the ground or out of the building. I’d rather they develop teams in house and learn how to manage the creation and release of successful IP. I feel like buying studios is putting a bandaid on the issue when the real problem is that a lot of Microsoft divisions are ran by complete idiots.

Should I post list of studios killed by Sony. ?

Also you talking about old MS which is different compared to new MS. This New MS sees gaming as core part of MS now

 

[Blam]

The problem I have with Microsoft just buying up developers is that they can easily make the same mistakes that caused them to run Lionhead, FASA, Bizarre, and Bungie into the ground or out of the building. I’d rather they develop teams in house and learn how to manage the creation and release of successful IP. I feel like buying studios is putting a bandaid on the issue when the real problem is that a lot of Microsoft divisions are ran by complete idiots.

Lionhead was mismanaged at it's core. Basically only being a Fable studio, and cancelling 8 games they were more money wasting then doing work. FASA also same deal. Basically only did Mechwarrior, and one game which I loved ShadowRun (Crossplay one).

Bizzare was run and owned by Activision so this doesn't count. Even then only games they ever made was PGR and Geo Wars. True they also made a awesome game called Blur but regardless they weren't doing too hot themselves.

Bungie just is bungie they are run from the top down with idiots. Jason Jones is one of them. No shit they left Microsoft they were actually forced to push for deadlines unlike now where they miss them over and over again. Microsoft kept that company in check.

Microsoft then compared to now is looking at long term, and all of those companies it bought won't be gone soon or at all.

You're thinking of times well gone.

 

[Snake29]

They can buy everything they want. It doesn't automatically translates into quality. I don't believe Microsoft with studios when i see it. Playground is the only capable atm inhouse and that's not much.

 

[Blam]

They can buy everything they want. It doesn't automatically translates into quality. I don't believe Microsoft with studios when i see it. Playground is the only capable atm inhouse and that's not much.

I'd say the Coalition and 343 are very capable companies.

 

[phil_t98]

I'd say the Coalition and 343 are very capable companies.

as is turn 10

 

[onlyoneno1]

How was repeating the same pricing mistake made in the first place a "well thought out response"? I agree the hardware is ace, but who fucking cares if no one but the hardcore ever buys one? That's why I feel it was checking a box, because they gained little or nothing from it.

That's where you are short sighted. The X is not just a response to the pro or a checklist, but also a show of strength and design prowess by Xbox. By doing the X they shut up everyone who said Xbox is under powered and by making the design that small quiet they shut up the negative talk about the ugly and bulky 1st gen Xbox One.

Also the financially troubled does not mean bad developers. The acquisitions that MS has made is all beloved devs who have made fan favorite games. And they just need the money to make more.

 

[mejin]

Could work really well. Right now, no one cares about Hitman, but the game itself is really solid.

 

[Denton]

This was obvious the moment we saw the low Hitman sales.

 

[hariseldon]

Buying a studio that puts out a good product but has financial issues is sensible. For starters, they're more likely to agree to be bought if they're struggling, and at a better price. Second, the problem that needs solving is budget, including advertising. That's one Microsoft can solve for IO. It's a sensible purchase for MS. Whether it's good for gamers is a question for another day.

 

[Denton]

As a massive Hitman fan, if it means saving the series then absolutely I'm all for it.

It will mean killing the series. It has underperformed twice now, MS will have IOI work on some new IP most likely.

 

[xStoyax]

If no one cares for it now....even fewer will care if it goes to Xbox

 

[Blam]

It will mean killing the series. It has underperformed twice now, MS will have IOI work on some new IP most likely.

Hitman 2 didn't do well because there's no advertising for it. With microsoft that can haappen

 

[DryvBy]

I hope not. Microsoft is another EA with companies but even worse. They buy them up and then do nothing with them.

RIP Hitman if this happens.

 

[Drewpee]

When Microsoft wasn't making moves ,they weren't dedicated to gaming. Now that they are making moves, they are destroying gaming lol no matter what they do it will always be seen as negative by some people.

 

[MilkyJoe]

So much concern.

 

[Dabaus]

If no one cares for it now....even fewer will care if it goes to Xbox

See, this is my sort of thinking. If no one cares now during the holidays while a well known franchise is multiplatform, why would someone care on an even smaller installed base? It does sort of seem like MS is throwing as much shit as possible against the wall to garner hype for their next console. Id have to think at some point papa MS will expect a return on investment from all these studio purchases. Can sony blow it next gen? Absolutely but people act like the ps1-ps2 transition didn't happen.

 

[joe_zazen]

Firstly, Microsoft had publicly floated the idea of a mid-gen upgraded console before the Pro was even rumoured to exist. The Pro camer out earlier because it was a PS4 with a second GPU strapped onto it. Mucriosoft went with an actual upgrade.

Second, what the hell do you want them to do?

People complain about their lack of first party output, so they're bolstering their first party studios.

You realise it's not a coincidence that all thsi spending is coming not very long after Phil was promoted right under Nadella right? It's no real secret Myerson didn't take Gaming seriously and basically had a tight leash on Xbox spending.

Microsoft has spent more on gamign in the last year and a half than they had the entire first half or more of this generation.

Semiaccurate reported on the plans for a pro version in 2013. It had been planned from before launch by Sony’s hardware team.

And the issue some have with giant American corporations swinging around big money dicks is that it distorts the marketplace and can lead to a shittier marketplace for consumers. There is a rich history of predatory American corporations distorting markets.

Now maybe this time it is different, but Nadella and good guy phil get their orders from the greedy billionaires on the board, and their goal has not changed: more money and more power.

 

[joe_zazen]

Should I post list of studios killed by Sony. ?

Also you talking about old MS which is different compared to new MS. This New MS sees gaming as core part of MS now

SIE is 99% American now, so yeah, they behave the same.

 

[Elenchus]

So what was the point in releasing it? Again, it doesn't gain them anything. If Spencer is trying to sell to the already converted, he's basically waving a white flag.

EDIT: It also further the stigma that buying an Xbox console is now going to cost $500. It seems like that may be their strategy; to normalize the $500 price point.

In fact, it costs them, because now their successor console has to drastically outperform the X at a lower price point to be competitive to the mainstream. Many of the ideas on the X are great ideas, and could have been implemented for the next true console generation. Not only did they take all the thunder away from those ideas, they've created a competitor for themselves when making their next console.

You misunderstand the point of the X. The original Xbox One's focus on multimedia and its large size convinced many that MS simply could not handle the hardware side of this business. Resolutiongate was a flag for all of those concerns and it was undermining consumer confidence at a rapid rate. MS understood this and made clear that they intended to end that narrative.

And that is precisely what the X achieved. Following its release, the same media that told that gaming world that it was critical to report the resolution differences of every major release, suddenly changed their position once PS4 no longer had the power advantage. With just one console release, MS ended resolutiongate and forced an industry of so-called gaming journalists to change topics.

The X also demonstrated the immense talent of MS's engineers as the console proved to not only be more powerful than Pro but also proved to run quieter and cooler. Consumer confidence in MS hardware is suddenly back as even MS's harshest critics have been forced to concede that MS's engineers can go toe to toe with Sony's any day of the week and have clearly outclassed Sony's engineers so far.

Now those intangible benefits will not drastically increase Xbox console sales in the short term but when you're an 800bil company like MS you have the luxury of planning for the long term. MS's gaming revenues are growing each and every quarter and they do not rely on gaming to keep the lights on in the same fashion as Sony does. I get that the X gets under the skin of certain Sony loyalists on this forum but its success is beyond debate. Its not often that a single piece of hardware can so drastically change a narrative.

 

[joe_zazen]

You misunderstand the point of the X. The original Xbox One's focus on multimedia and its large size convinced many that MS simply could not handle the hardware side of this business. Resolutiongate was a flag for all of those concerns and it was undermining consumer confidence at a rapid rate. MS understood this and made clear that they intended to end that narrative.

And that is precisely what the X achieved. Following its release, the same media that told that gaming world that it was critical to report the resolution differences of every major release, suddenly changed their position once PS4 no longer had the power advantage. With just one console release, MS ended resolutiongate and forced an industry of so-called gaming journalists to change topics.

The X also demonstrated the immense talent of MS's engineers as the console proved to not only be more powerful than Pro but also proved to run quieter and cooler. Consumer confidence in MS hardware is suddenly back as even MS's harshest critics have been forced to concede that MS's engineers can go toe to toe with Sony's any day of the week and have clearly outclassed Sony's engineers so far.

Now those intangible benefits will not drastically increase Xbox console sales in the short term but when you're an 800bil company like MS you have the luxury of planning for the long term. MS's gaming revenues are growing each and every quarter and they do not rely on gaming to keep the lights on in the same fashion as Sony does. I get that the X gets under the skin of certain Sony loyalists on this forum but its success is beyond debate. Its not often that a single piece of hardware can so drastically change a narrative.

X1X restored consumer confidence in MS hardware? I think you over estimate how many people care enough about consoles to follow this stuff. & MS has put out good hardware for yonks, including their phones. You really need to go back to 2006 to find a hardware issue.

X1X was buit to stop erosion of marketshare by offering a quality product at a reasonable price for enthusiasts in response to the pro. While it is a flagship product for xbox, it is not for MS as a whole.

 

[WaterAstro]

If these studios don't produce the total domination victory Microsoft is gunning for since they are throwing a ton of cash into their gaming sector, you can bet the higher ups will cut losses, write off, and blow up studios. Microsoft always does.

Just take the Kin as an example. Two months after their 1 billion dollar project released, it sold so poorly that they canned the whole thing and wrote it off.

 

[joe_zazen]

If these studios don't produce the total domination victory Microsoft is gunning for since they are throwing a ton of cash into their gaming sector, you can bet the higher ups will cut losses, write off, and blow up studios. Microsoft always does.

Just take the Kin as an example. Two months after their 1 billion dollar project released, it sold so poorly that they canned the whole thing and wrote it off.

Or Nokia.

 

[Horsemama1956]

Buying financially troubled development houses to aid your own struggling console business is probably not the best plan ever presented in a boardroom. I'm just fascinated that Microsoft keeps doing it.

EDIT: Having owned their products now in this space for a decade and a half, my observation has been that Microsoft is very into checking boxes, even when it doesn't benefit them. They did it with Kinect when the Wii craze was dying out. "See guys! We've got waggle too!" They did it with the X this generation after Sony brought out the Pro. "See guys! We have the most powerful system!" And now they seem to be doing it in response to their lack of studios. "See guys! We own all these development houses!"

It's all very formulaic to them, as if they can just tick off boxes and magically reverse what Mattrick did to them. It's going to be a long uphill slog, and it's going to require brilliant moves rather than just a fat wallet. Ask George Steinbrenner.

It makes sense though. I would bet Sony would do the same if they had the money MS has but they may have no choice if MS starts looking at bigger fish. I can see in the near future this becoming common with companies like MS, Google and Amazon just buying up devs and discarding them when done and repeat. Automation is coming for this industry as well.

 

[Dabaus]

I do think sony need to make a move or two though. Sony should try to acquire insomniac games and/or kojima productions. I think a headline like that would go along ways to dissolving a lot of hype and good will Microsoft has got from these studio purchases. Blunting your biggest competitors momentum and building up your own house would be worth the cost id think.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

There isn't a big enough market for Hitman games unfortunately.

I'm not sure why Microsoft would want to bring in a studio that, while very talented, can't seem to reach commercial success.

 

[Clear]

I think its kinda funny people talking like Sony don't have the money to do similar purchases, sure MS are a much bigger corporation but Sony aren't exactly small fry themselves. The Playstation business is also a lot more important to Sony than Xbox is to MS in terms of annual revenue, its making them a lot bank these days.

$1.7 billion operating income (from revenue of $18b) in FY 2016-2017 for their G&NS business buys a lot of studios, and their forecasts are up this year.

The thing is, a buy-out war is not good for the industry as a whole. Its anti-competitive no matter who's doing it.

 

[PuppetMaster]

Don't do it IOI!

Hitman is a fantastic but very niche game. Making it console exclusive will it's doom!

 

[GenericUser]

IO is probably crawling on their knees by now, given the fact that Hitman bombed hard. Easy aquisition by Microsoft.

 

[Bernkastel]

If these studios don't produce the total domination victory Microsoft is gunning for since they are throwing a ton of cash into their gaming sector, you can bet the higher ups will cut losses, write off, and blow up studios. Microsoft always does.

Just take the Kin as an example. Two months after their 1 billion dollar project released, it sold so poorly that they canned the whole thing and wrote it off.

Alright, now you have done it. Should I tell you that Sony has closed more studios than Microsoft ?
989 Studios (closed in 2005)
Bigbig Studios(closed in 2012)
Contrail(closed in 2000)
Evolution Studios(closed in 2016)
Incognito Entertainment(closed in 2009)
Studio Liverpool(closed in 2012)
Zipper Interactive(closed in 2012)
Guerrilla Cambridge(closed in 2017)
So, what should they do about Kin ? It failed, the team than made Zune(its UI was a predecessor to Windows Phone UI) and finally the Surface, which is so successful. Now, Panos Panay heads the whole Microsoft hardware division, including the Xbox since 2015(and they made the Xbox One S/X). But you want them to continue making Microsoft Kin ? How would that even work in the current mobile environment.

 

[Dabaus]

I think its kinda funny people talking like Sony don't have the money to do similar purchases, sure MS are a much bigger corporation but Sony aren't exactly small fry themselves. The Playstation business is also a lot more important to Sony than Xbox is to MS in terms of annual revenue, its making them a lot bank these days.

$1.7 billion operating income (from revenue of $18b) in FY 2016-2017 for their G&NS business buys a lot of studios, and their forecasts are up this year.

The thing is, a buy-out war is not good for the industry as a whole. Its anti-competitive no matter who's doing it.

This is a good take. Sony might not be Microsft rich but they can make moves. They recently bought kanye wests record label for I believe 2.3 Billion dollars and the rights to Charlie brown of all things for like 185 million. Imagine if that 2.3 billion went to gaming and acquiring studios. There's no excuse if some of these partners have go multiplatform for exclusive to a competitor.

 

[Blam]

Just take the Kin as an example. Two months after their 1 billion dollar project released, it sold so poorly that they canned the whole thing and wrote it off

"1 billion" is not a true value lmao ICO's are not the same at all to a company buying out another.

Or Nokia.

Nokia is still a company that exists lmao don't act like they died completely. Shit they still make phones, and have been for a few years.

 

[Blam]

They recently bought kanye wests record label for I believe 2.3 Billion dollars

They do not own Good Music. UMG does and that's owned by Vivendi.

They bought some songs that Kanye had done previously with EMI.

 

[IncognitoPanda]

Problem is none of the studios they have bought would make me get an xbox, they took a load of studios that made 'meh' games or company's that made exclusives anyway.

In this case all it would do is ensure I probably never got another hitman game, and I've had them all on ps so far.

I don't think they care. Down the line you can splurge $10 to try them all for a month. No ecosystem investment needed.

 

[Dabaus]

They do not own Good Music. UMG does and that's owned by Vivendi.

They bought some songs that Kanye had done previously with EMI.

Either way they have enough capital to throw around to make moves, that was over all point.

 

[Fart Knight]

I do think sony need to make a move or two though. Sony should try to acquire insomniac games and/or kojima productions. I think a headline like that would go along ways to dissolving a lot of hype and good will Microsoft has got from these studio purchases. Blunting your biggest competitors momentum and building up your own house would be worth the cost id think.

Yeah, its all good when Sony buys up studios or gets timed exclusives.

 

[Barakov]

If no one cares for it now....even fewer will care if it goes to Xbox

HITMAN 2 should of absolutely not of been released in fall. It would've had a much better chance if it was released in spring 2019. I blame WB for this.

 

[ROMhack]

Didn't IO Interactive buy themselves back from somebody after the release of the original reboot? Either that was short-sighted or a brilliant 'Come and Get Me' plea for bigger publishers.

 

[Fitzchiv]

How was repeating the same pricing mistake made in the first place a "well thought out response"? I agree the hardware is ace, but who fucking cares if no one but the hardcore ever buys one? That's why I feel it was checking a box, because they gained little or nothing from it.

Here speaketh the man who does not understand incremental vs radical portfolio management.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Alright, now you have done it. Should I tell you that Sony has closed more studios than Microsoft ?
989 Studios (closed in 2005)
Bigbig Studios(closed in 2012)
Contrail(closed in 2000)
Evolution Studios(closed in 2016)
Incognito Entertainment(closed in 2009)
Studio Liverpool(closed in 2012)
Zipper Interactive(closed in 2012)
Guerrilla Cambridge(closed in 2017)
So, what should they do about Kin ? It failed, the team than made Zune(its UI was a predecessor inspired Windows Phone UI) and finally the Surface, which is so successful. Now, Panos Panay heads the whole Microsoft hardware division, include the Xbox since 2015(and they made the Xbox One S/X). But you want them to continue making Microsoft Kin ? How would that even work in the current mobile environment.

They also laid off a bunch of people from their Santa Monica Studio. So even the employees responsible for money banking God of War gets the axe.

https://www.giantbomb.com/sie-santa...nica-hit-with-layoffs-cancels-new-ip-1473356/

Sony Santa Monica hit with layoffs; cancels new IP.


They also stopped first party games for Vita after only a few years. By early 2015, it had already been stopped, but they didn't tell anyone until then. If they were pro-gamers, they would have told Vita gamers a year earlier (or more), they were ditching portable first party support and putting it all into PS4.

https://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/10/23/sony-confirms-its-stopped-first-party-vita-development

SONY CONFIRMS IT'S STOPPED FIRST-PARTY VITA DEVELOPMENT

 

[urmie]

As a big Hitman fan, this would be great news. IOI is a talented developer, don't want them to close down. If the buyout happens, I could see Hitman just go the Minecraft route, it would still be multi-plat but, maybe just like Sony did for Hitman 2016, Xbox gets an exclusive campaign like the 'Sarajevo Six'.

 

[DrAspirino]

Here speaketh the man who does not understand incremental vs radical portfolio management.

I think it was Eidos Interactive. Then they switched publisher to WB Games. In any case, I think it wouldn't be bad if Microsoft buys IOI. If things go wrong, they could pull another "self buy" like they did with Eidos.

 

[The Incarnation]

What's the point of buying a studio that releases their games on windows? Seems like a waste.

Personally, I think the only advantage Sony has over Xbox is Japanese exclusives, and that will always be the case, regardless of what they do.