But that's throwing money out for So y if they enable disc based BC, I can still find many PS2 games dirt cheap here instead of buying digital
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RUMOR: PS4 emulation of PS1/2 games.
- Thread starter FunkyLounge
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But that's throwing money out for So y if they enable disc based BC, I can still find many PS2 games dirt cheap here instead of buying digital
jackissocool
Member
They do things like cross buy and allowing disc based BC on PS3, both of which are "throwing money out".
Eh, the "how" is extremely relevant. The way it is now, very few games I care about are available to purchase digitally.
But why should the customer throw money out? I already bought those games. Why should I buy them again?
It's pretty easy - when they offer free disc-based PS1+PS2 backward compatibility on PS4 and they also offer PS1+PS2 downloads. Maybe people like me would see a reason to buy a PS4 and then play their PS1+PS2 games and maybe just maybe even buy more games. Especially PS4 ones. Maybe some PS2 games as well. If they don't, I will just say fuck it, which means none of my money will go to Sony. More will go to Ninty instead.
That works pretty well for Ninty as well. I bought a Wii U, which features full backward compatibility and 2 Wiimote+. Guess what I did. I use it to play lots of my Wii backlog games. And I also bought quite a few games like Skyward Sword, Sports Resort and others as brand-new. Didn't buy them back then, because I didn't own Wiimotion+ Wiimotes.
It's not if they make them available.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
We're going to have people making a fuss about their discs every gen aren't we?
Disc-based BC is pretty much a thing of the past, at least for Sony. I think we need to get used to it.
Disc-based BC is pretty much a thing of the past, at least for Sony. I think we need to get used to it.
It's too weak.
it would be amazing, but it wouldn't be the most profitable solution, nor would it help bolster their digital catalog, so it's prob not going to happen.
The shitty part is gonna be waiting for that 1 game a week trickle bullshit.
Nightengale
Member
Cell.
And the fact that a $599 backward compatible PS4 will likely bomba vs a non-BC $399 SKU.
there's already a PS3 emulator out there, so it's not really about the cell. It would just be some not-so-great hackneyed emulation like the PS3's PS2 emulation.
Joke? The original PS3's had hardware based BC and then after PS3's had software based BC. Then they took that away, leaving nothing.
EDIT: Apologies if I'm missing something here.
Mass Effect
Member
Yeah, and it doesn't really work. It's going to be years before even a single game is going to be somewhat playable on that emulator. And it's going to take a beast of a machine to do it, one far more powerful than the PS4 could ever hope to be.
It really doesn't make any sense, as there was no ID tagging built into the old PSone and PS2 discs to begin with. Anyone and everyone could just pass around the same DVDs (you can't do it with CDs because, again, the PS4 does not have a CD Rom drive) and "scan it in" for a free game.
What does make the most sense is getting people to buy a digital version of a game, having it tied to an account, and then having access to it across all capable PlayStation consoles and Now. I bought PSone games on my PSP back in 2007 that worked on my PSP, Vita, and PS3, so I'm assuming they'll work on my PS4. I'm hoping my PS2 downloads work the same way.
JaseMath
Member
GTA V is up and running on the emulator though...
Surely Cell isn't that big of a roadblock is it? I feel like people said that same thing about the Emotion Engine when the PS3 was in it's early days, but that was software emulated later on.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Thanks I did in fact, order this to have my physical copy!
Sony could charge for emulator software, and keep all of that revenue splitting with no one, and continue to sell PS1 and PS2 classics, which would continue to sell.
Seems reasonable to me.
Previous generations of console hardware went used such amazingly customized architectures that emulation requires several years to become feasible.
It's interesting that both consoles moved to X86-64 for this iteration. Since basically all PCs run on this architecture, with some exceptions, it's easy to imagine developers being keen to keep consoles on this architecture in future generations for the sake of simplicity. It benefits everybody that developers feel comfortable with an architecture they already know how to code for.
By the time Playstation 5 is released, local PS3 emulation should be feasible assuming they keep a two-generation lag for performance to catch up. And if it were to remain X86, it would arguably be far easier to allow PS4 backwards compatibility since you wouldn't have to emulate a different architecture.
In other words: PS5 Backwards compatibility with all previous PS consoles confirmed.
It's interesting that both consoles moved to X86-64 for this iteration. Since basically all PCs run on this architecture, with some exceptions, it's easy to imagine developers being keen to keep consoles on this architecture in future generations for the sake of simplicity. It benefits everybody that developers feel comfortable with an architecture they already know how to code for.
By the time Playstation 5 is released, local PS3 emulation should be feasible assuming they keep a two-generation lag for performance to catch up. And if it were to remain X86, it would arguably be far easier to allow PS4 backwards compatibility since you wouldn't have to emulate a different architecture.
In other words: PS5 Backwards compatibility with all previous PS consoles confirmed.
In case it wasn't clear, this is a tongue-in-cheek jab at some of the ridiculous assumption-conclusion trains of thought I've seen in this thread.
lightchris
Member
It's not.
Nope, people didn't say that about the EE. The situation couldn't be more different. Cell's peak performance is actually twice as high as the PS4's CPU; even in theory with no overhead there's no way you could emulate it on that.
Pretty huge 'if.'
Ranik Regana
Neo Member
That would be really neat. Though, I'm not much interested in playing ps2 games
I'm glad to see a few more rational voices popping up in here.
It's understandable that some people would want their old games to work on the new consoles, but there are significant technological, fiscal, and even physical obstacles that make it a pipe dream.
Having digital titles that are purchased once and work across all PlayStation platforms is the most realistic and mutually-beneficial outcome. It's to be expected.
It's understandable that some people would want their old games to work on the new consoles, but there are significant technological, fiscal, and even physical obstacles that make it a pipe dream.
Having digital titles that are purchased once and work across all PlayStation platforms is the most realistic and mutually-beneficial outcome. It's to be expected.
FunkyLounge
Member
Exactly. I would be happy to have even that.
Definitely more realistic, but given the library of games available on PSN for PS1, PS2, and PSP games, I find it hard to get excited about the trickle of selective games that would be available.
I don't expect disc based BC on PS4, but I would be happy to have it.
I bet it'll happen. Yoshida alluded to it a few months back and they've done a really good job with the PSone classics working on every platform since the PSP. Grandfathering purchases is to be expected, unless they add in trophies to each PSone game and justify that as a reason to charge again (unless it's like, I dunno, $.99 or something).
I actually think the PSone library is pretty darn good, but hopefully the PS4's hypothetical ability to play PS2 ISOs off the PSN would result in another push from publishers to get their games up. I own a lot of HD collections of PS2 games, though, and those sort of encompass my favorites (although I have Twisted Metal: Black, GTA Vice City, Max Payne 1, and Psychonauts as PS2 classics too).
That's the reason I'm going digital. I've played digitally purchased PS1 game on PSP/PS3/PSV already. If I could play it on PS4 that would sure be nice
That's the reason I'm going digital. I've played digitally purchased PS1 game on PSP/PS3/PSV already. If I could play it on PS4 that would sure be nice
The biggest question, to me, is the saves.
Being able to wirelessly transfer my PSone saves to and from my PS3/Vita is awesome, especially for JRPG grinding on the PSone. They'd probably need to add a similar feature to the PS4 with the emulator/Now playback.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
It's our choice what we want to voice, as consumers, for our desire.
I'm just the customer. I don't have to pre-screen my customer desires to even make sure they are even technologically of fiscally feasible, to be labelled "rational," but I do. Witness the number of people here just voicing the desire to play their PS3 games. I know that's not technically feasible.
But on the other hand, I'm certainly not gong to take some sort of sycophantic, anti-consumer stance that even though fulfilling my customer desire for PS1/PS2 disc-based emulation is both technologically and fiscally feasible that I should't expect it because it closes off an avenue for a company to charge me again for something I already bought.
That's not about feasibility. It's about finding excuses to continue to argue for some all-digital agenda even as you argue against and denigrate the reasonable desires of your fellow customers. I have mentioned numerous times in response in tis thread that they could just charge for the emulator. But no one wants to credit or discuss that point.
Too many "rational" people whose advice is, essentially, shut up, take what you get, and buy the content again, because digital. Fuck.
Hitoribhoshi
Member
In my region, that might mean 1080p 50hz 4:3 games.
Yeahh gee thanks Sony. I'm already playing my Persona 4 ntsc-u copy in 16:9 at 720p on my non-BC PAL PS3 (cfw) so ring me up when I can play something I actually want to play, the way I want to play it on a system I OWN.
Yeahh gee thanks Sony. I'm already playing my Persona 4 ntsc-u copy in 16:9 at 720p on my non-BC PAL PS3 (cfw) so ring me up when I can play something I actually want to play, the way I want to play it on a system I OWN.
indigo-cyclops
Member
Call me crazy but I'd pay full price (60) for the emulator if it allowed discs.
No hesitation really. And games I didn't have, particularly on PSX, I'd still buy on the store. Maybe even harder to find PS2 games.
I kinda side with the other dude on this one. For one reason and one alone. Suikoden II not being available on PSN despite some people's best efforts.
I can't buy Suikoden II, I can't buy any PS2 FF, I can't buy ANY tri-ace game, I can't buy a Megaman X game, I can't buy Tobal, I can't buy Ehrgeiz, I can't buy SF Anthology...
I own all of these discs. lol
I'd much prefer not to be at the whim of whatever these companies think is popular or profitable to release digitally.
Do you all have PS2s? It'd stand to reason you do if you own these games, I mean.
I don't think you know what the word "sycophantic" means, but I'll stick to the topic of PSone/PS2 classics on PS4 and realistic expectations.
If buying digital version so PSone and PS2 games (which I've been doing for seven years now) means I get those titles on a wide variety of platforms going forward along with other newer emulation benefits (playing my PS2 games upscaled on PS3 was nice, and sharing saves across three platforms was certainly an awesome perk) then I'm going to keep doing it. Potentially adding in trophies and some sort of emulation-based visual upgrade sounds like a really nice perk for going digital, and I still have my physical copies of these games if I ever worry about not having the ability to play them again somehow.
I don't think you know what the word "sycophantic" means, but I'll stick to the topic of PSone/PS2 classics on PS4 and realistic expectations.
If buying digital version so PSone and PS2 games (which I've been doing for seven years now) means I get those titles on a wide variety of platforms going forward along with other newer emulation benefits (playing my PS2 games upscaled on PS3 was nice, and sharing saves across three platforms was certainly an awesome perk) then I'm going to keep doing it. Potentially adding in trophies and some sort of emulation-based visual upgrade sounds like a really nice perk for going digital, and I still have my physical copies of these games if I ever worry about not having the ability to play them again somehow.
RadarScope1
Member
I'm talking about digital offerings, if I wasn't clear. PSN is a platform, and offerings on that platform can reasonably be expected to carry forward from console to console, in many consumers' minds. This is in regard to emulation, not dedicated games coded for PS3, obviously.
Hitoribhoshi
Member
Many would obviously pay for such an emulator.
But you're foolish if you think they won't charge you each month/years or for each games.
But you're foolish if you think they won't charge you each month/years or for each games.
I don't understand this argument when we're talking about BC. Why bring up PS2?
If they charged for an emulator, how do you think the creators of those old games would feel to find Sony was profiting off their old work while they aren't? You'd end up getting into a Netflix scenario where only certain titles are available for a limited time, require DRM checks, etc. I'm willing to bet they toyed with the idea, but decided against it after looking into the big picture.
Charging $5 to play Resident Evil 2 isn't exactly highway robbery, especially if it works on my Vita, PS3, PSP, and potentially my PS4. With cross-saves. I never expected to get such perks when I got the game back in 1998.
Those are my 2 cents.
Charging $5 to play Resident Evil 2 isn't exactly highway robbery, especially if it works on my Vita, PS3, PSP, and potentially my PS4. With cross-saves. I never expected to get such perks when I got the game back in 1998.
Those are my 2 cents.
RadarScope1
Member
I'm with you. I agree that it's likely to happen as you've laid out. Hope it's sooner than later but when you consider E3 is only about 10 weeks away it's probably an announcement they tuck into their main presentation, or maybe one of those "whet your appetite" announcements just ahead of E3 that we seem to have had in recent years.
I'll forever miss Jack announcing "Final Fantasy ___ is available right NOW on the PSN."
You and most of us here on NeoGaf are in the minority when it comes to owning five-, ten-, fifteen-, and twenty-year-old games.
Most people don't own these discs anymore. Going digital makes sense.
I, however, don't care how it happens. You're already a beggar. Don't be a chooser.
If you really want to play those games, play them on the older systems. I still have a working backward-compatible PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 2.
This is incorrect - the PS4 can physically read CDs, just lacks a player app for CD Audio.
Hades Hotgun
Banned
This is basically the same logic and sentiment that claimed "Sony too," regarding always on-line DRM.
The reality is that we don't know what Sony's policy will be, however there is no practical difference in the obstacles faced by physical and digital backwards compatibility. If it can play one, it can play the other. The question is, will Sony continue the PS1 classics policy on the PS4, or will they continue the PS2 classics policy on PS4? Thats it. Not everyone who disagrees with you is being irrational and it is not necessary to make passive aggressive dismissals of opposing viewpoints.
Goddamn was that game amazing. I had so much fun unlocking all the players. The soundtrack was godly as well, when you open a game with T.R.O.Y., then you're doing it right.
Why should I care whether or not I'm in the minority?
Why should I care if people don't own the discs anymore?
Also, how am I the beggar? lol. I'm the fucking consumer. The companies are the ones begging. The consumer is the chooser here. That you have the mentality of a beggar is kind of sad.
Do I expect it? No. Should I just stop saying I want something just because people like you tell me it isn't feasible? Fuck that.
Danlord
Member
To be honest, as much as I'd love both to be locally emulated for 1080p, I think what is more plausible unless Sony are just incredible;
PS1 games can be locally emulated with a built-in upscaler up to 1080p
PS2 games can be emulated via PS2 Classics* with a built-in upscaler up to 1080p
*for selected titles (that are available on PS Store)
I would love for PlayStation 2 titles to be able to be emulated natively with the upscaler, but as mentioned it would/could eat away from additional revenue that would else be earned through using the PS2 Classics, especially for popular titles like GTA: San Andreas for example. I've played Crash Bandicoot Warped through ePSXe in 1080p and it's incredible, such a little change and with the graphical and art design it works perfectly, so I'd be very happy with that, but I would definitely be more satisfied if they do - do local PS2 emulation.
If thuway is right and that Sony are always listening and wanting feedback, +1 for me to encourage local PS2 emulation!
PS1 games can be locally emulated with a built-in upscaler up to 1080p
PS2 games can be emulated via PS2 Classics* with a built-in upscaler up to 1080p
*for selected titles (that are available on PS Store)
I would love for PlayStation 2 titles to be able to be emulated natively with the upscaler, but as mentioned it would/could eat away from additional revenue that would else be earned through using the PS2 Classics, especially for popular titles like GTA: San Andreas for example. I've played Crash Bandicoot Warped through ePSXe in 1080p and it's incredible, such a little change and with the graphical and art design it works perfectly, so I'd be very happy with that, but I would definitely be more satisfied if they do - do local PS2 emulation.
If thuway is right and that Sony are always listening and wanting feedback, +1 for me to encourage local PS2 emulation!
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