SonGoku
Member
Because they could make something bigger? Leave uncharted and tlous to 2nd party devs. ND should focus on new projects.
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Rumor: PS5 devkits ~ 13 TFLOPS
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CyberPanda
Banned
I know they could make something bigger, but new IP's are always a risk imo. We'll see what happens, I guess.Because they could make something bigger? Leave uncharted and tlous to 2nd party devs. ND should focus on new projects.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Because they could make something bigger? Leave uncharted and tlous to 2nd party devs. ND should focus on new projects.
I am
It depends on the potential remaining in the IP: constantly making just new IP's without sequels is similar to making too many sequels... you are leaving money on the table. An IP that is successful but not trussed does not get a chance or amortise R&D costs well.
FranXico
Member
Fair enough.Because they could make something bigger? Leave uncharted and tlous to 2nd party devs. ND should focus on new projects.
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bitbydeath
Gold Member
I'd like to see TLOU as a trilogy before moving on. I'm fine with them moving on from Uncharted though.
SonGoku
Member
Fair enough, I'll elaborate
TLOUs doesn't have much potential for sequels they (ND) were even doubting it would get a second one. Sequels would also take away from the franchise, i see it more as a stand alone classic.
Uncharted has run its course, they wrapped Nates story, im not interested in playing UC spinoffs with different characters nor do i think that's worthy of ND time, i don't care for a reboot with Nates daughter, I can play Tomb raider to scratch that itch.
I rather they make something completely new and unexpected with all the possibilities next gen hw brings and build on that.
I also think ND is in a privileged position where their studio recognition is bigger than any one game, people will buy anything they make as long as its well made.
That wouldn't bother me and it would be a nice balance of new and known ip for PS5.
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ethomaz
Banned
You will have mostly 30fps even after 2020.
Mostly consoles players have no ideia of that difference too...
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CyberPanda
Banned
We'll find out more at E3, thats for sure.
CyberPanda
Banned
AMD Boss says PS5 has some "Special Sauce"
The PlayStation 5 is coming sometime in the future to a store near you. While it hasn't been officially announced by Sony yet, we've seen system architect Mark Cerny beginning to talk about it.
TLZ
Banned
AMD Boss says PS5 has some "Special Sauce"
The PlayStation 5 is coming sometime in the future to a store near you. While it hasn't been officially announced by Sony yet, we've seen system architect Mark Cerny beginning to talk about it.www.joyfreak.com
CyberPanda
Banned
Bryank75
Banned
What's with every time somebody says the PS5 devkit is running at 12.9 / 13 Tflops, somebody comes in and says "So I guess this means 10 to 12 Tflops max".
Is it just to annoy? Is it trolling or is it that they can't stand the idea of Xbox not having much of an advantage in straight numbers regarding GPU.
I mean it's not as though it matters in most cases;
Unlimited Tflops won't fix this.
Is it just to annoy? Is it trolling or is it that they can't stand the idea of Xbox not having much of an advantage in straight numbers regarding GPU.
I mean it's not as though it matters in most cases;
Unlimited Tflops won't fix this.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Yeah I agree 100%. Your so Edgy and cool. If it don't apply let it %ucking fly.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Because they could make something bigger? Leave uncharted and tlous to 2nd party devs. ND should focus on new projects.
I am
Nah ND is big enough now to work on two projects like thy have done in the past. Uncharted can be put on hold for awhile but Tlou is too precious to be given to another dev and have that other dev tarnish the name of the brand ala Lbp and Sumo Digital, Halo and 343 and others, that you don't want to do. One ND team can work on Tlou in the future and of course another can work on another project which I'm sure they are doing.
Braldryr
Banned
Yes, that's what I am referring too. That rumor came about since the Uncharted 4 days of a Savage Star Light poster.
Gamernyc78
Banned
It's wishful thinking on many ppls part. They don't want PS5 to be stronger than their console of choice for whatever reason and yeah its annoying.
TBiddy
Member
Or it might just be because devkits historically have been more powerful than the actual console...
Gamernyc78
Banned
Nope, not much of a big difference historically. In some cases dev kits were actually weaker in some respects.
I see what your trying to do and it's great you want to be judge and juror or a pseudo neutral party but this isn't a court room. He and I both made the comments we made because "historically" some of the ppl making these comments have been pushing a narrative.
Bryank75
Banned
Well, there do seem to be a lot of independent rumblings of 13tflops and then that one dev saying both xbox and PS5 will be significantly more powerful than Stadia.
Ar¢tos
Member
Dev kits usually have more memory and that's it. Rarely some have the CPU clocked a little bit higher.
Dev kits have to be as similar to the retail unit as possible to ensure games run as well on the retail unit as they do in the dev kit and avoid further optimisations based on guesswork (since they can't debug a retail unit).
TBiddy
Member
I have no idea what you're on about with the latter paragraph. Don't be a jerk. It's just a forum. Also, dev kits are usually more powerful.
Actually, a guy from Microsoft claimed that it's easier to downscale than upscale, which is the reason dev kits are usually more powerful than release and not the other way around.
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ANIMAL1975
Member
Yes of course, but you don't have to go way back and see the opposite of that _ Xone higher clock speeds, ps4 8GB Gddr5.
FranXico
Member
I would indeed expect devkits to usually be a bit stronger than commercial units, but the biggest differences would boil down to things such as amount of RAM (overhead needed for debugging), or slightly faster CPU (better for profiling). I do not expect a major impact on things such as TF.
Also, as mentioned above, specs themselves can change.
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Sony can easily get Sucker Punch to do Spider-Man games anyway. If Insomniac do get purchased.
A lot of the time when studios get sold it's because the founders want to retire. Like what happened to Bioware.
Gamernyc78
Banned
I have no idea what you're on about with the latter paragraph. Don't be a jerk. It's just a forum. Also, dev kits are usually more powerful.
Again no they usually just have more ram as another poster mentioned.
And thts what I'm trying to tell you so keep your smart comments to yourself because it is "It's just a forum"or just mind your business completely if a comment doesn't apply to you and you cant handle the responses.
Actually, a guy from Microsoft claimed that it's easier to downscale than upscale, which is the reason dev kits are usually more powerful than release and not the other way around.
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TBiddy
Member
Neither do I, but if memory serves, the Scorpio devkit was about 10% faster than the actual console. I'm not saying that's the case with the PS5 devkit, but it's not unheard of that devkits are faster than the console, and as such, it's weird that some people think it's because someone is "scared" of the power of the PS5.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
That was one incident and your comment was "devkits historically have been more powerful" which isn't true, more memory yes, more powerful no. You butted in to a comment about fanboys downplaying the 13tf rumor trying to be judge and juror. Fact of the matter is many/some (not all of course) ppl are throwing the dev kit is usually more powerful narrative as a weakly guided veil of them hoping it is not up there in tflops because they don't want it to be on par or stronger than their console of choice future offering. You have eyes, read previous comments, look at history and if you choose to not do so don't try to call ppl out responding to tht fanboy nonsense.
Now back to the topic at hand. We are all hoping for this bump up to close to 13tflops because this would be great for games. All rumors and signs continue to point to this
TeamGhobad
Banned
AMD heavily favors Sony
Armorian
Banned
They gave them more advanced GPU's in the past, MS just got bigger chip with X1X.
Ar¢tos
Member
Favoring the client that will buy more is not really surprising.
TeamGhobad
Banned
ps4 soc vs xbox one soc its just ridiculous how the die size is bigger but less powerful at the same time. although esram might have been MS idea and god knows for what reason 32mb of esram at 76gb/s....fucking amateur all round.
back then MS was winning.
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Armorian
Banned
Kinect in the box and DDR3 as a target memory fucked them up.
Sony also invested money in Navi delopment so I don't think MS can have GPU with same features, maybe upgraded Vega?
TeamGhobad
Banned
this is what i was thinking as well. it would really gimp the nexbox. i dont think i ever read AMD mentioning navi and xbox in the same paragraph.
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Ar¢tos
Member
It will be just the customisations. AMD won't be able to give MS the customizations it developed with Sony and vice-versa.
The rumor is that one of Sony customisations is some form of hardware help for RT, limiting MS to all software RT or developing their own RT hardware with AMD.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
LOL. This launch is extra interesting because we will also learn if raytracing matters.
If PS5 has RT it'll be the awesomest thing ever. If not, then RT sucks and nobody actually wants it.
Thankfully we already know that backwards compatibility once again matters.
rəddəM
Member
There's a whole skin set of this Savage Starlight thing for the Uncharted MP.
Kinda odd, if it was just the posters...
Maybe they are doing a science fiction.
Who knows?...
V4skunk
Banned
It isn't a hardware change. Try harder.
Freeman454
Member
AMD Boss says PS5 has some "Special Sauce"
The PlayStation 5 is coming sometime in the future to a store near you. While it hasn't been officially announced by Sony yet, we've seen system architect Mark Cerny beginning to talk about it.
Like moderator Shifty_Geezer noted on b3d:
Nothing in there particular about PS5's performance or features; only AMD's ability to work long term to create a semiconductor solution for Sony's product. Though phrased in a way that the fanboys can get all excited.
Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [pre E3 2019] *spawn*
Wouldn't 24GB gddr6 require 384bit memory bus? That sounds unlikely for console but if that happes, awesome. Xbox One X already uses a 384bit memory bus with 12GB GDDR5 (retail consoles) and 24GB GDDR5 (Scorpio dev-kits). 24GB GDDR6 / 384bit bus doesn't seem like much of a stretch to believe...
forum.beyond3d.com
CyberPanda
Banned
I remember that guy from B3D. He's been posting their forever, and is very intelligent.Like moderator Shifty_Geezer noted on b3d:
Nothing in there particular about PS5's performance or features; only AMD's ability to work long term to create a semiconductor solution for Sony's product. Though phrased in a way that the fanboys can get all excited.
Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [pre E3 2019] *spawn*
Wouldn't 24GB gddr6 require 384bit memory bus? That sounds unlikely for console but if that happes, awesome. Xbox One X already uses a 384bit memory bus with 12GB GDDR5 (retail consoles) and 24GB GDDR5 (Scorpio dev-kits). 24GB GDDR6 / 384bit bus doesn't seem like much of a stretch to believe...
Freeman454
Member
Yes a balanced mod, with a realistic sight on things.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Savage Starlight (the in game comic from TLoU), and it needs to happen.
ANIMAL1975
Member
I got slightly aroused, i guess I'm a bit of a fanboy too... feck.
thinking about it, Lisa always does that to me when she talks about sauces 
somerset
Member
"AMD heavily favours Sony"- probably the stupidest and most ill-informed statement on this thread.
Microsoft and Microsfort alone screwed the Xbox One (NSA edition). Remember the announcement- and *all* the 'features' (actually total surveillance mechanisms) that MS was forced to walk back after the public responded with horror.
And as for the hardware- well MS 'geniuses' over-ruled AMD experts every step of the way. The Xbox 1X is so brilliant cos MS did everything they could to *reverse* the mistakes they made first time. With the 1X, they *listened* to the AMD experts.
Sony did with the PS4 what MS had done with the Xbox 360. Worked closely with the AMD engineers, enquired about the possibility of using future tech early, and got a *better* architecture than AMD was selling in discrete GPUs at the time.
Now with the next gen, both Sony and MS are working as *smartly* as possible with AMD. Both want Navi+ combined with features from Navi's successor. Both want first rate late stage scaling to 8K. Both want perfect support for new methods that go beyond 'checkerboard'- methods that vary the rate of shader usage across scren elements- to boost shader performance.
Both are getting 'ray tracing'- cos this is *nothing* but a minor pipeline change (better connection between geometry data output and actuall shader ALUs), and has *never* involved new 'ray tracing shaders' (Turing has ZERO new maths hardware for ray tracing- it uses tiny ASIC circuits to better route variable data to existing shaders). Ray tracing functionality is part of the new DirectX and Vulkan. And industry standard.
MS is focused on excellence in traditional 2D console gaming. It is doing everything to beat Sony at this- and will probably claim its new console is 8K ready and a solid 60FPS, with higher speed framerates available for 'easier' games.
Sony is focused on VR. I think its 'special sauce' will be a GPU per eye, with the two GPUs working together (at somewhate less than 2x efficiency) for ordinary 2D games.
It is possible one or both will go for more than 8 zen2 cores, but honestly this would be a waste. Better for this to wait for the revisions a few years later.
Both these next-gen consoles are going to be amazing, and amazing value for money if you come from PC gaming. Both will have tech AMD will not provide fully to PC gamers for around 18 months to 2 years.
***
Here's the thing. Live long enough, and you know moments of extreme jumps can and do happen in high tech. They are rare, require lots of factors to be just right, but do happen. They were certainly more common in the past, cos of the rate of chip shrinks- today process tech is gradually grinding to a halt. 7nm may be the last big one- or we may have one more to come.
7nm combines with the rise of AMD, the cut-throat competition between MS and Sony, the sudden leap in RAM resources, the move to SSD ultra high-speed storage, 4K+, decent VR, greater ambition in 3d game tech, and ability to replicate Hollywood values, and many more.
Anyone focused on the next god-awful COD or GOW title, or Borderlands 3, misses the big picture entirely. Of course new tech can't make crap old game franchises conceptually better. What's that about patching a new coat with old cloth (like I'd remember a parable accurately).
I'm hoping what every one hear should hope for. A massive leap in AAA gaming ambition. Games are always held back by tech limitations- until tech gets good enough. Many simpler games (like platformers) have all the tech resources they could ever need- and are limited only by skill and imagination. But living open world experineces, and full-on VR needs all the power we can find and more.
My only fear with the new consoles is that they waste their power on 4K/8K pixels - making crap old games look a bit 'crisper' and render more frames per second in 'new' versions. But I know the best game devs want far more than this. They want to do things never before possible. Hopefully the new console owners will support the best ambitions of the best devs.
Microsoft and Microsfort alone screwed the Xbox One (NSA edition). Remember the announcement- and *all* the 'features' (actually total surveillance mechanisms) that MS was forced to walk back after the public responded with horror.
And as for the hardware- well MS 'geniuses' over-ruled AMD experts every step of the way. The Xbox 1X is so brilliant cos MS did everything they could to *reverse* the mistakes they made first time. With the 1X, they *listened* to the AMD experts.
Sony did with the PS4 what MS had done with the Xbox 360. Worked closely with the AMD engineers, enquired about the possibility of using future tech early, and got a *better* architecture than AMD was selling in discrete GPUs at the time.
Now with the next gen, both Sony and MS are working as *smartly* as possible with AMD. Both want Navi+ combined with features from Navi's successor. Both want first rate late stage scaling to 8K. Both want perfect support for new methods that go beyond 'checkerboard'- methods that vary the rate of shader usage across scren elements- to boost shader performance.
Both are getting 'ray tracing'- cos this is *nothing* but a minor pipeline change (better connection between geometry data output and actuall shader ALUs), and has *never* involved new 'ray tracing shaders' (Turing has ZERO new maths hardware for ray tracing- it uses tiny ASIC circuits to better route variable data to existing shaders). Ray tracing functionality is part of the new DirectX and Vulkan. And industry standard.
MS is focused on excellence in traditional 2D console gaming. It is doing everything to beat Sony at this- and will probably claim its new console is 8K ready and a solid 60FPS, with higher speed framerates available for 'easier' games.
Sony is focused on VR. I think its 'special sauce' will be a GPU per eye, with the two GPUs working together (at somewhate less than 2x efficiency) for ordinary 2D games.
It is possible one or both will go for more than 8 zen2 cores, but honestly this would be a waste. Better for this to wait for the revisions a few years later.
Both these next-gen consoles are going to be amazing, and amazing value for money if you come from PC gaming. Both will have tech AMD will not provide fully to PC gamers for around 18 months to 2 years.
***
Here's the thing. Live long enough, and you know moments of extreme jumps can and do happen in high tech. They are rare, require lots of factors to be just right, but do happen. They were certainly more common in the past, cos of the rate of chip shrinks- today process tech is gradually grinding to a halt. 7nm may be the last big one- or we may have one more to come.
7nm combines with the rise of AMD, the cut-throat competition between MS and Sony, the sudden leap in RAM resources, the move to SSD ultra high-speed storage, 4K+, decent VR, greater ambition in 3d game tech, and ability to replicate Hollywood values, and many more.
Anyone focused on the next god-awful COD or GOW title, or Borderlands 3, misses the big picture entirely. Of course new tech can't make crap old game franchises conceptually better. What's that about patching a new coat with old cloth (like I'd remember a parable accurately).
I'm hoping what every one hear should hope for. A massive leap in AAA gaming ambition. Games are always held back by tech limitations- until tech gets good enough. Many simpler games (like platformers) have all the tech resources they could ever need- and are limited only by skill and imagination. But living open world experineces, and full-on VR needs all the power we can find and more.
My only fear with the new consoles is that they waste their power on 4K/8K pixels - making crap old games look a bit 'crisper' and render more frames per second in 'new' versions. But I know the best game devs want far more than this. They want to do things never before possible. Hopefully the new console owners will support the best ambitions of the best devs.
Bryank75
Banned
Gears or God of war? What's your problem with it?
bitbydeath
Gold Member
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
This thread reads like fanfiction. PS4 was basically an underclocked 7850, Pro was an underclocked RX 480, and PS5 will be an underclocked Navi 10.
Navi isn't some mystical GPU created by Cerny, it's coming out this year on PC.
Navi isn't some mystical GPU created by Cerny, it's coming out this year on PC.
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