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[Alexander DeLarge]

Eye tracking is the way forwards for high res VR, not brute forcing pixels. No sense in wasting silicon for something that's still niche anyways.

By the time PSVR2 rolls around (2020/2021), I can't imagine a headset launching without foveated rendering. On the PC side of things, we're already seeing wireless HMDs, 4K/200 degree FOV with eye tracking.

 

[CeeJay]

Hasn't Nvidia screwed both Sony and MS in the past? I doubt they will give Nvidia another try, specially now that AMD seems to be improving their GPU output. And it's not like there are many alternatives, if MS doesn't use AMD they can only use Nvidia, unless Intel upcoming Gpu line is ready and has goods specs/power consumption /heat.

Microsoft have been developing their own CPU architecture for some time and have had their own custom HPU in HoloLens for quite a few years. Maybe they are also developing processors that specialise in graphics work as well and could do something radically different with the NextBox to an assumed fully AMD SOC. I think a homegrown GPU is unlikely at this point as there hasn't been any rumours whatsoever that they are developing anything like this but I wouldn't be surprised to see an E2 CPU in there alongside the (probably AMD) GPU.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Microsoft have been developing their own CPU architecture for some time and have had their own custom HPU in HoloLens for quite a few years. Maybe they are also developing processors that specialise in graphics work as well and could do something radically different with the NextBox to an assumed fully AMD SOC. I think a homegrown GPU is unlikely at this point as there hasn't been any rumours whatsoever that they are developing anything like this but I wouldn't be surprised to see an E2 CPU in there alongside the (probably AMD) GPU.

You are advocating for CELLv2 there ?

Seriously though, I think that you may see some deeper customisation on the GPU side and maybe some additional custom HW to assist, but I think the CPU’s will stick with more traditional Desktop CPU like cores as it insures greater compatibility and ease of use for multiplatform developers.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I just don't see them being similarly powered given price differences in the past and MS now promising the most power. We don't even know if Xbox is using AMD next-gen at this point.

It's pretty safe to assume that MS are using AMD, what are the other options for an APU? I think the call for infinite BC might keep it that way too

 

[Heavy Man Crush]

I find that extremely unbelievable, even the best PC hardware available isn't enough to warrant a new gen out side resolution and performance.

‘Member when consoles used to have hardware ahead of commercial PCs? I ‘member.

 

[CeeJay]

You are advocating for CELLv2 there ?

Seriously though, I think that you may see some deeper customisation on the GPU side and maybe some additional custom HW to assist, but I think the CPU’s will stick with more traditional Desktop CPU like cores as it insures greater compatibility and ease of use for multiplatform developers.

Not necessarily a CELLv2 situation. Microsoft did some pretty nifty work with the virtualisation layer between the hardware and the software for the Xbox One so it's not entirely out of the question that the existing API could be ported to a different architecture entirely than x86 while retaining full compatibility. I wouldn't put anything past them after the technical wizardry they did to bring X360 BC to the console.

It's highly more likely however that they would go with the safe option of an x86 AMD CPU/GPU SOC again though.

 

[nowhat]

It's pretty safe to assume that MS are using AMD, what are the other options for an APU?

This. There are none, at least in the x64 space. There are ARM SoC's, sure, but the performance just isn't there (and would make BC much harder, requiring even beefier ARM hardware).

I've seen some suggestions that going Intel+NVidia would be the ideal solution. Which it sure would be - if we ignore the price, increased power usage, increased cooling requirements and a bunch of other things. Having said that, it's more than likely that both PS5 and Xbox Two (or whatever it will be called) will have at least semi-customized chips, despite being based on AMD APUs.

 

[Darius87]

My prediction is that next Xbox and PS5 will be very similiar in technology and performance but i think sony will be the first one to release it probably end of 2019 assuming of previous launches had similiar launch window, i don't think this primitive ray-tracing need to have some kind of specialized hardware it's all about calculations so 10-12 tflops gpu will do it + ryzen cpu would help, likely it's going to be advanced version of vega 56 apu with navi and new CU architecture on 7nm die 56*64*2*1500=10.7Tflop i think gpu clock could go even higher, that's almost 6 times performance of PS4. that's probably sweet spot for 400$.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

This. There are none, at least in the x64 space. There are ARM SoC's, sure, but the performance just isn't there (and would make BC much harder, requiring even beefier ARM hardware).

I've seen some suggestions that going Intel+NVidia would be the ideal solution. Which it sure would be - if we ignore the price, increased power usage, increased cooling requirements and a bunch of other things. Having said that, it's more than likely that both PS5 and Xbox Two (or whatever it will be called) will have at least semi-customized chips, despite being based on AMD APUs.

I seriously doubt Microsoft is going back to NVidia.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Nvidia going to release their 1100 series next year (2019)

Just like Vega, that usually means AMD next card should arrived a year latter (sometime in 2020)

Microsoft said Scarlet coming in 2020

That means development will be earlier and Scarllet will be using Vega

Prediction : PS5 2021 Navi GPU 8 TB 18 teraflops $500

 

[Ar¢tos]

Assuming a 7nm APU and both having the same price, releasing within 1 year of each other won't make difference. A 2tf difference on the 10tf range is something much much smaller than in the 4-6tf range, and there is also the diminishing returns next gen will face. If one costs 400 and the other 500, then there might be some difference worth talking about.

Why is everybody assuming the PS5 will release in 2019 and the next xbox 1 year later? The Ps4 is still selling well, no reason to give people reasons not to buy it anymore.

 

[nowhat]

I seriously doubt Microsoft is going back to NVidia.

Wasn't implying that - just that people have suggested it, which would make sense if we ignore reality.

 

[LordOfChaos]

What does ray-trace hardware do exactly?
We've had ray-tracing on non-ray-tracing hardware (PS3/Warhawk) so does it just give it more power or something aimed at that particular aspect?
I would have thought it'd be all software based as opposed to hardware so I'm out of my depth here...

Think of a tessellation engine - we could do that before, just very slowly, and with much reduced complexity.

What's coming won't allow full scene ray tracing in AAA games, but it will allow acceleration of it to the point that it can be a feature add to existing games, like the rest of Gameworks already is, rather than being practically unusably slow or doing relatively trifling things (i.e warhawk was assuredly 99.5% raster graphics)

It starts with this hybrid approach and each generation will move more and more to ray tracing.

It's why I think the next gen starting in 2020ish and having to last the next 6 years would be a big miss to not include any form of ray tracing acceleration, it'll just be growing on the PC space in all that time.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Wasn't implying that - just that people have suggested it, which would make sense if we ignore reality.

I was agreeing with you.

Microsoft paying royalties

 

[Panajev2001a]

Not necessarily a CELLv2 situation. Microsoft did some pretty nifty work with the virtualisation layer between the hardware and the software for the Xbox One so it's not entirely out of the question that the existing API could be ported to a different architecture entirely than x86 while retaining full compatibility. I wouldn't put anything past them after the technical wizardry they did to bring X360 BC to the console.

It's highly more likely however that they would go with the safe option of an x86 AMD CPU/GPU SOC again though.

IBM and Sony had a pretty nifty hypervisor based solution too, but yes MS added quite nice HW enhancements to make virtualisation of both CPU and GPU efficient and easy to support. I think they could split the Game OS and System OS with two different SoC and the System OS could run on a custom ARM SoC as Windows does run on ARM quite well, but I think the Game OS will still stay x86.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Assuming a 7nm APU and both having the same price, releasing within 1 year of each other won't make difference. A 2tf difference on the 10tf range is something much much smaller than in the 4-6tf range, and there is also the diminishing returns next gen will face. If one costs 400 and the other 500, then there might be some difference worth talking about.

Why is everybody assuming the PS5 will release in 2019 and the next xbox 1 year later? The Ps4 is still selling well, no reason to give people reasons not to buy it anymore.

Because you launch a new product when the old one is still relatively hot and customers remember it fondly. You do not release it when the old product is now cold and almost forgotten.
This way you also create a positive customer impression as the old product is still receiving games and support as the new one is also allowed to take risks and launch new and focused software (it is not good when the current product software line up dries up as a company is now pouring resources in launching the new product and leaves old customers in the dirt).

The way Sony has transitioned customers from PS1 to PS2 to PS3 to PS4 and hopefully to PS5 and onwards is one of the several reasons I do get their HW at launch.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Because you launch a new product when the old one is still relatively hot and customers remember it fondly. You do not release it when the old product is now cold and almost forgotten.
This way you also create a positive customer impression as the old product is still receiving games and support as the new one is also allowed to take risks and launch new and focused software (it is not good when the current product software line up dries up as a company is now pouring resources in launching the new product and leaves old customers in the dirt).

The way Sony has transitioned customers from PS1 to PS2 to PS3 to PS4 and hopefully to PS5 and onwards is one of the several reasons I do get their HW at launch.

For me that's why it's the complete opposite. I do not reward companies like Sony for releasing a new system they hardly put much efforts in with their own software at launch. I buy their hardware when it's fully supported. It didn't take too long to figure out the PS4 was the better system than the Xbox One but that's not always the case with PlayStation. That's why I waited on the PS3 because it wasn't a very good game system until about 2 years into it. That's why next generation is exciting to me because of how well Nintendo is doing now and how much of a refocus Microsoft has and wonder how Sony will start with the PS5. Will Sony have dual generation titles like Death Stranding? I buy on a game per game basis too, all this hate for certain publishers is over the top like most things on the forums. If a game is good I will buy it regardless of who publishes the title or what hardware it's on.

 

[Panajev2001a]

For me that's why it's the complete opposite. I do not reward companies like Sony for releasing a new system they hardly put much efforts in with their own software at launch. I buy their hardware when it's fully supported. It didn't take too long to figure out the PS4 was the better system than the Xbox One but that's not always the case with PlayStation. That's why I waited on the PS3 because it wasn't a very good game system until about 2 years into it. That's why next generation is exciting to me because of how well Nintendo is doing now and how much of a refocus Microsoft has and wonder how Sony will start with the PS5. I buy on a game per game basis too, all this hate for certain publishers is over the top like most things on the forums. If a game is good I will buy it regardless of who publishes the title or what hardware it's on.

They put effort in the new system and they fully support it but do so in a way that does not screw late adopters for example. Seeing consoles where the last year or so on the market before the new console is out and the dry spells/software draughty then and there makes me feel in constant “new customer we love you, old customer go away” mode with mainly a focus on selling you the new HW instead of supporting the old one.

If instead of HW you put platform then this is a reason why MS dominated in offices and Enterprise... and for consumers too: old software received patches and sometimes meaty Service Packs while they were launching a new platform.

 

[God Enel]

I don't understand any of this shit but I love reading about it.

 

[longdi]

That does seem wishful thinking or a joke that fell... flat .

I think raytracing extensions will be part of the Semi-Custom work that AMD is doing for both PS5 and Xbox One Next. Sony could release it with the Pro model, but it would be too much of a paradigm change to go from standard to hybrid rayteacing in one go... they could double or quadruple the raytracing/AI performance in the Pro revision though and I think it is the plan.

No i am certain.
The rumors have been Sony is rushing out PS5, further along than MS.
MS did a good job with XB1X.
Any next gen consoles should have some form of RTX acceleration.
I cant see the draw if graphics stays the same as today, except for higher resolution.
A look at Nvidia RTX dancing space guy demo, i can see polygon edges and normal textures like today, but the RTX lighting alone makes it look a big leap since we got 3D realtime graphics.

Sony pushing for a 2019/20 early PS5 is asking for trouble.

 

[Dabaus]

My question is what makes Microsoft so certain that they will have the most powerful console next gen? Like, are they privy to sony's specs? If so, is sony privy to theirs? Reading between the lines and from all the smoke weve been getting that PS5 really is coming before the next xbox. Who can really say at this point though...

 

[Elios83]

My question is what makes Microsoft so certain that they will have the most powerful console next gen? Like, are they privy to sony's specs? If so, is sony privy to theirs? Reading between the lines and from all the smoke weve been getting that PS5 really is coming before the next xbox. Who can really say at this point though...

It's just PR to say they are committed to make a powerful high end system. Who ends up being more powerful will depend on many factors including release date, target price etc. So it's not under Microsoft's control.

 

[Chaostar]

My question is what makes Microsoft so certain that they will have the most powerful console next gen? Like, are they privy to sony's specs? If so, is sony privy to theirs? Reading between the lines and from all the smoke weve been getting that PS5 really is coming before the next xbox. Who can really say at this point though...

The only way to 100% assure better hardware is to wait a year or so or launch at a much higher price, either option is probably death.

 

[mckmas8808]

For the hybrid approach, or full?

If the next gen misses any form of ray acceleration whatsoever it seems like a big miss, since Nvidia is going to ship it in this next GPU generation, and AMD presumably should have an answer in the next year or two too. Again, not going to be the bulk of rendering, but the hardware acceleration can allow ray tracing to correct rasterized graphics and make them better without a full switch.

How exactly will it make games look better though?

 

[Dabaus]

The only way to 100% assure better hardware is to wait a year or so or launch at a much higher price, either option is probably death.

Yeah this is what Im getting at. The only way MS can be certain is that they plan on launching later. If that's the case I don't see how Microsoft even stands a chance.

 

[bhunachicken]

How exactly will it make games look better though?

In the short term, better reflections and shadows. Longer term, a more realistic lighting model meaning that games appear more realistic due to better light simulation.

That said, I have heard people say that raytracing isn't practical in large, open environments. Raytracing needs to track the way rays bounce off objects and deal with refraction, scattering, absorption, and wave reflection. Trying to calculate this in large open spaces would be way too complex with today's level of tech. I can see raytracing being restricted to indoor environments to begin with and expanding out as techniques and hardware capabilities increase.

After all, that Unreal engine Star Wars raytracing demo was restricted to a small environment and was running on a $60k machine.

 

[michaelius]

Where has it been confirmed that next-gen Xbox is using AMD?

All that's been said so far of the next-generation Xbox is that MS believes the next-gen Xbox will be the most powerful console box(the same way they declared X to be the most powerful console box, which turned out to be true).

And even if they are using the same AMD technology, both consoles will not have the same capabilities(current gen shows massive performance differences between hardware comparing PS4 Pro and Xbox One X despite using similar AMD tech).

Performance difference comes from Microsoft putting more shaders in bigger APU. As far as technology is concerned PS4 Pro is half generation ahead since it incorporates FP16 precision which is part of AMD Vega.

And as other's have said only company which can deliver x86 cpu cores and big gpu currently is AMD - unless Microsoft wants to wait till at least 2020 and gambit everything on completely unproved Intel GPU.

 

[Trogdor1123]

DAMN!!

There is still more life for the ps4, i dont understand the rushing.

It's almost 5 years old already. It will be 6 in 2019 and 7 in 2020. That's getting pretty long in the tooth. They really need to start stuff years in advance. I'm a 2020 guy myself but I understand the choices.

 

[LordOfChaos]

How exactly will it make games look better though?

Like it already is, but more of it.

 

[Jaxx_377]

I don't understand any of this shit but I love reading about it.

I was just thinking the same thing. It all sounds fascinating but Im friggin lost in all of this.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Intel and Nvidia in the next Xbox? Y'all ready to pay $6-$700 for a new console?

Bring that slight excitement/delusion down a little bit, lol.

 

[Leonidas]

Performance difference comes from Microsoft putting more shaders in bigger APU. As far as technology is concerned PS4 Pro is half generation ahead since it incorporates FP16 precision which is part of AMD Vega.

X APU is only 10% bigger than PS4 Pro.
X GPU has only 11% more shaders than PS4 Pro.

The big difference comes from clockspeed, X runs at 1172 while Pro runs at 911. That's almost 30% higher.

If PS4 Pro ran at 1172 like the X it would have been a 5.4 Tflop machine.

 

[Panajev2001a]

No i am certain.
The rumors have been Sony is rushing out PS5, further along than MS.
MS did a good job with XB1X.
Any next gen consoles should have some form of RTX acceleration.
I cant see the draw if graphics stays the same as today, except for higher resolution.
A look at Nvidia RTX dancing space guy demo, i can see polygon edges and normal textures like today, but the RTX lighting alone makes it look a big leap since we got 3D realtime graphics.

Sony pushing for a 2019/20 early PS5 is asking for trouble.

Late 2019 is not rushing the console out. Six years after PS4 came out and 3 years after a relatively good but still minor refresh with the PS4 Pro model. It is quite likely that both consoles will have a form of rayteacing acceleration which will really shine in the mid generation upgrade. What nVIDIA demoed is a very expensive professional graphics card which is light years away from being packaged in a power and thermal limited box where the whole package is priced at about $399 (with a profit margin in it too once you count one subscription and/or one game bought at launch). The next big jump will be 5nm not what they call 7nm++ (7nm with EUV lithography) which brings a very minor improvement in transistor density and power consumption over 7nm. Late 2019 means that the 7nm process they are going to be using is mature enough to guarantee decent yields on even fairly complex SoC’s.

Sony did as much a good job with PS4 Pro as MS did with Xbox One X IMHO, once you count the overall platform strategy and next platforms rollout as well as budget/MSRP for the HW and launch date.
Sure waiting one more year and raising the retail price can get you faster HW, but Sony preferred to take a more moderate earlier and cheaper upgrade path to keep people with 4K TV’s in their ecosystem while preparing a nice classic evolutionary step forward with PS5.

 

[Panajev2001a]

X APU is only 10% bigger than PS4 Pro.
X GPU has only 11% more shaders than PS4 Pro.

The big difference comes from clockspeed, X runs at 1172 while Pro runs at 911. That's almost 30% higher.

If PS4 Pro ran at 1172 like the X it would have been a 5.4 Tflop machine.

Optimised the SoC more for a higher frequency target and accepted lower initial yields (they could absorb higher costs with a higher price point).

I think the big big change for users is actually having quite a bit more GDDR5 and faster bandwidth to boot (and not having to worry about adding specific VR oriented optimisations and other forward looking features for their first party studios). They bet on more raw power and more RAM and I think the latter enabled a lot of things like 4K texture packs that did not make the cut on PS4 Pro purely for memory space reasons and not for performance. This is one of the things that sets apart titles that are 4K on X and CB/sub 4K on PS4 Pro: textures and offscreen render targets for effects that had to run at a lower resolution because PS4 Pro could only afford about 0.5 GB extra memory for games compared to PS4.

 

[mckmas8808]

Like it already is, but more of it.

This is so good looking that I don't even know what to think.

Late 2019 is not rushing the console out. Six years after PS4 came out and 3 years after a relatively good but still minor refresh with the PS4 Pro model. It is quite likely that both consoles will have a form of rayteacing acceleration which will really shine in the mid generation upgrade. What nVIDIA demoed is a very expensive professional graphics card which is light years away from being packaged in a power and thermal limited box where the whole package is priced at about $399 (with a profit margin in it too once you count one subscription and/or one game bought at launch). The next big jump will be 5nm not what they call 7nm++ (7nm with EUV lithography) which brings a very minor improvement in transistor density and power consumption over 7nm. Late 2019 means that the 7nm process they are going to be using is mature enough to guarantee decent yields on even fairly complex SoC’s.

Sony did as much a good job with PS4 Pro as MS did with Xbox One X IMHO, once you count the overall platform strategy and next platforms rollout as well as budget/MSRP for the HW and launch date.
Sure waiting one more year and raising the retail price can get you faster HW, but Sony preferred to take a more moderate earlier and cheaper upgrade path to keep people with 4K TV’s in their ecosystem while preparing a nice classic evolutionary step forward with PS5.

Panajev I love your post most of the time, but 2019 would be rushed (considering we've heard nothing about the PS5 dev kits). It'll be rushed in the sense that a huge majority of gamers just aren't asking for a new console for next year. Don't give us something before we are even ready for it.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

I just don't see Sony waiting until 2020 to release the Ps5.

 

[mckmas8808]

Like it already is, but more of it.

Hold on!!!! They said this Star Wars demo was running on 4 Titan Xs connected together making it as powerful as 16 PS4s connected to each other all at once.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

mckmas8808

How about Sony just keeping things close to the vest Nintendo style? Remeber also PS4 Pro rumours (that nobody believed to start!) came less than 8 months before launch.

Another question (that nobody has answered yet) is why Sony at their IR Day they left off FY 2019 but not FY 2020? Only one big enough reason for me.

 

[Panajev2001a]

This is so good looking that I don't even know what to think.




Panajev I love your post most of the time, but 2019 would be rushed (considering we've heard nothing about the PS5 dev kits). It'll be rushed in the sense that a huge majority of gamers just aren't asking for a new console for next year. Don't give us something before we are even ready for it.

I am ready for it (... and I do not think I am the only one) like I was ready the year before PS4’s announcement. Having PS4 Pro helped somewhat, but it had the negative effect of placating the hunger of some people . Still, it is over 15 months before a possible launch and 7 months before a reasonable PSX event. I am not concerned just because we have not seen major DevKit leaks .

Let’s see if after a PlayStation eXperience in day March with some big juicy tech announcement, preview of some big first party games, some third party early early looks, a preview of the System OS and some features if you are still going to have the same stance you have now .

 

[mckmas8808]

mckmas8808

How about Sony just keeping things close to the vest Nintendo style? Remeber also PS4 Pro rumours (that nobody believed to start!) came less than 8 months before launch.

Another question (that nobody has answered yet) is why Sony at their IR Day they left off FY 2019 but not FY 2020? Only one big enough reason for me.

ARGH! You might be right about that FY stuff, but I don't want you to be right. I'mma be so disappointed if PS5 comes out in one year.

I am ready for it (... and I do not think I am the only one) like I was ready the year before PS4’s announcement. Having PS4 Pro helped somewhat, but it had the negative effect of placating the hunger of some people . Still, it is over 15 months before a possible launch and 7 months before a reasonable PSX event. I am not concerned just because we have not seen major DevKit leaks .

Let’s see if after a PlayStation eXperience in day March with some big juicy tech announcement, preview of some big first party games, some third party early early looks, a preview of the System OS and some features if you are still going to have the same stance you have now .

The bolded is 100% right, because that's what I did for me. Had there been no PS4 Pro, I'd want a PS5 tomorrow lol.

 

[Panajev2001a]

ARGH! You might be right about that FY stuff, but I don't want you to be right. I'mma be so disappointed if PS5 comes out in one year.

Why though? We were used to 5 year cycles and now after 6 years we are upset if they start launching a new model... after the 7-8 year exceptionally long previous cycle left many disappointed and hungry for change?

I know people are not desperate for a new console now, but next year they might once they see yet another generation of PC hardware and a half and almost two new iPhone generations (iPhone X Plus in a few weeks and its successor next fall) before the new console would actually launch (say Winter 2019). PS4 as a platform (including PS4 Pro then) is going to be a bit old and quite a bit colder in Winter 2020 and it would not be the boost PS5 needs to launch IMHO.

 

[longdi]

I am ready for it (... and I do not think I am the only one) like I was ready the year before PS4’s announcement. Having PS4 Pro helped somewhat, but it had the negative effect of placating the hunger of some people . Still, it is over 15 months before a possible launch and 7 months before a reasonable PSX event. I am not concerned just because we have not seen major DevKit leaks .

Let’s see if after a PlayStation eXperience in day March with some big juicy tech announcement, preview of some big first party games, some third party early early looks, a preview of the System OS and some features if you are still going to have the same stance you have now .

No. You should instead buy a current PC gpu like 1080 and play current gen rendering.
PS5 being stuck at current gen rendering will suck.

The cheapest RTX5000 is 'only' $2300 with 6gray/s, twice the price of a typical Titan only.
I think the new RTX2080 will have 1gray/s. The new Titan R will have 3gray/s. The RTX2080Ti coming next year will thus have around 3gray/s.
Jensen made quite a deal about RTX = CUDA cores. This is no tensor cores. Nvidia invited games developers, made it with the latest VR output link. Full RTX will go into geforce.
It is feasible to have 2-3gray/s in late 2020/21 for console specs. That should be the time PS5 launch. So that its base games will have rather good RTX.

 

[mckmas8808]

Why though? We were used to 5 year cycles and now after 6 years we are upset if they start launching a new model... after the 7-8 year exceptionally long previous cycle left many disappointed and hungry for change?

I know people are not desperate for a new console now, but next year they might once they see yet another generation of PC hardware and a half and almost two new iPhone generations (iPhone X Plus in a few weeks and its successor next fall) before the new console would actually launch (say Winter 2019). PS4 as a platform (including PS4 Pro then) is going to be a bit old and quite a bit colder in Winter 2020 and it would not be the boost PS5 needs to launch IMHO.

Because there's certain hardware that I've been looking forward to having in a console for about 2 years now. And noway do I want the PS5 to miss out of this cool new hardware because they arrived to the scene a year early. I think most of us want some form of.......

- Around15 Teraflops of power.
- At least 24 GBs of RAM
- Some form of ray tracing help/enhancements built into the hardware.
- A Navi GPU with next gen memory
- A strong Ryzen x86 CPU that does BC, yet runs games better than the current PS4s weaker CPU.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Hold on!!!! They said this Star Wars demo was running on 4 Titan Xs connected together making it as powerful as 16 PS4s connected to each other all at once.

Yeah, and yesterday they were playing that demo on one Quadro RTX, pretty crazy, even if it was a lower framerate than the original render.

That wasn't the point of me posting the video though, it was the later mention of existing games with some ray traced elements already - ray tracing acceleration hardware in the next gen could allow a whole lot more of that.

 

[Dontero]

Hold on!!!! They said this Star Wars demo was running on 4 Titan Xs connected together making it as powerful as 16 PS4s connected to each other all at once.

No they did it on 4 volta gpus which each is about 14TF which means 14x4=56 so about 28 PS4s

 

[Darius87]

Because there's certain hardware that I've been looking forward to having in a console for about 2 years now. And noway do I want the PS5 to miss out of this cool new hardware because they arrived to the scene a year early. I think most of us want some form of.......

- Around15 Teraflops of power.
- At least 24 GBs of RAM
- Some form of ray tracing help/enhancements built into the hardware.
- A Navi GPU with next gen memory
- A strong Ryzen x86 CPU that does BC, yet runs games better than the current PS4s weaker CPU.

99.9% not gonna happen, all of your points except maybe for last, i'm almost certain that PS5 will be around 10-12Tflops, 16Gb of Gddr6 memory with ryzen 8 cores cpu, there won't be any additional hardware built in it because it doesn't need it it's stupid how people think it could have some ray-tracing hardware, why not just compute that on gpu?

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah, and yesterday they were playing that demo on one Quadro RTX, pretty crazy, even if it was a lower framerate than the original render.

Do you know what framerate it was running at on the Quadro RTX?

That wasn't the point of me posting the video though, it was the later mention of existing games with some ray traced elements already - ray tracing acceleration hardware in the next gen could allow a whole lot more of that.

No they did it on 4 volta gpus which each is about 14TF which means 14x4=56 so about 28 PS4s

You sure because Digital Foundry said 4 PS4 Pros or 4 Titan Vs right here

I think we are actually saying the same thing

99.9% not gonna happen, all of your points except maybe for last, i'm almost certain that PS5 will be around 10-12Tflops, 16Gb of Gddr6 memory with ryzen 8 cores cpu, there won't be any additional hardware built in it because it doesn't need it it's stupid how people think it could have some ray-tracing hardware, why not just compute that on gpu?

Don't you think 16 GB of RAM is limiting? The Xbox One X has 12 GBs of RAM. And 10 TFs is almost impossible to imagine. Sony would have to go out of their way to make a 2020 console this weak.

 

[Dontero]

Don't you think 16 GB of RAM is limiting? The Xbox One X has 12 GBs of RAM. And 10 TFs is almost impossible to imagine. Sony would have to go out of their way to make a 2020 console this weak.

10TF is possible to imagine because those new consoles will be on 7nm and they will have mid range GPUs in them and when 7nm will be released 10TF will become midrange unlike now which is high end.

As for "ram. We are talking about "V"ram not just "ram" It is clear that consoles will not have split ram which means that they will use VRAM so it means that any size of 24 or even 16GB will be super expensive and very power hungry. 16GB as in HBM3 or HBM2 on die is more probable anything more than that is not possible unless consoles will cost a lot which won't happen.

 

[McCheese]

I suspect Sony still remember Cell, and how long it took developers to leverage it. Given there have been massive leaps made in standard GPU tech since the PS4 launched, I don't see why they would risk going with unproven technology when they can play it safe and still blow people away with the results.

They are probably more worried about the CPU, as that's one area where games have become increasingly demanding and yet both AMD and Intel don't have many low-power options that can meet the demand of next gen titles.

 

[Darius87]

Don't you think 16 GB of RAM is limiting? The Xbox One X has 12 GBs of RAM. And 10 TFs is almost impossible to imagine. Sony would have to go out of their way to make a 2020 console this weak.

I'm assuming that PS5 launch in late 2019, so everything above 16GB of RAM would be overkill even at 4K i agree that it could have couple of GB more just to compensate for OS. How 10Tflops is weak? remember Tflops doesn't necessary mean powerfull system, in addition you have to have really good architecture, big memory bandwidth, and efficiency, to prevent bottlenecks.