FF:Enhanced_Reality
Member
A bit of context please? I get Jaguar cores aren't designed for pure compute power but just how advanced is this APU over it?
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RuthenicCookie who broke news of Sony not going to E3 says PS5 is a Monster (Details inside)
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A bit of context please? I get Jaguar cores aren't designed for pure compute power but just how advanced is this APU over it?
prinz_valium
Member
I just know Ps4 Pro was 480k first 2 months in the US and Xbox One X significantly outsold that.
Not sure about how much and the exact number tho.
But 1m for Xbox One X is extremely low.
5m for Ps4 Pro, too
1 out of 5 consoles sold was a Ps4 Pro at one time back in 2017 (and that ratio increased since then)
Ps4 shipped 29 million since release of the Ps4 Pro.
20% of that are close to 6 million
25% of that are over 7 million
@mckmas8808 I forgot that Sony bought SoftKinetic a few years ago & have their own Time of Flight cameras now
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/sony-acquires-softkinetic-systems-for-vr-tech.1121756/
https://www.sony-depthsensing.com/N...ftKinetic-becomes-Sony-Depthsensing-Solutions
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/sony-acquires-softkinetic-systems-for-vr-tech.1121756/
https://www.sony-depthsensing.com/N...ftKinetic-becomes-Sony-Depthsensing-Solutions
HeresJohnny
Member
Even with your optimistic forecast, it's still less than 10 percent of the number of units sold, a tiny number that is still meaningless relative to what the end numbers will be and already are. I'm still doubtful of them, however. I believe these systems were heavily front-end loaded sales wise, because the people most likely buying them already owned Xbox Ones and PS4s mostly. I just find it a huge stretch to believe that someone finally jumps in when they release more expensive hardware, like that's what they were waiting for, and especially given the brevity of the life both of these consoles will have. Hopefully we'll get hard data on it someday.
EDIT: and that gulf will only widen with $199 PS4s and Xbox Ones going on sale for Black Friday.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Well, if it uses Zen2 like rumored, you are going to get "desktop like" performance out of the CPU, being directly fed with with the ram bandwidth. I would say conservatively 3x the CPU performance at a minimum.
thelastword
Banned
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H47J7T5/?tag=neogaf0e-20
This will be $199.99 for black friday..
https://www.gamesradar.com/walmarts...n-ps4-bundle-and-psvr-set-for-dollar199-each/
ThatOneGrunt
Member
So the console will have a camera and so will the DS5 for VR? If the internet doesn't have a mental breakdown over this like they did with kinect "spying" on you, I'm going to be upset.
Lort
Banned
Wait until ps5 wireless VR ... it will be better in every respect.
TLZ
Banned
The Wii u gamepad had a camera dude.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
Would love the console to be $500 because that lessens the chances of mid-gen garbage. If PS5 is $400 and mid-gen is another $400, you're basically $300 more and getting less specs and capabilities for the first three years or so of the generation. Screw that. I want to see Sony go all out. Besides, Xbox One X is actually selling at a better ratio than PS4 Pro which is shocking considering that it's $100 more but it's because it's simply doing more for the games. I think that Sony sees this and figures, let's just go all out for the base console. Also, I think that next gen will be 5 years maximum. I believe they go all out with the base PS5 in 2020 and then release PS6 in Fall 2025 with would then bump everything up to 8K. This way, they can also eliminate the half-assed 8K mid-gen console like they did with PS4 Pro in regards to 4K. Release date wise, if it was up to me, I would target September 2020 to lineup with their 25th Anniversary in North America.
I love computer vision so I see things differently than most people when they say the controller will have a camera because it's something I wanted with the PS4.
Add the camera with the tracking processors in the controller & we should be able to scan our rooms into the PS5 & use it in different ways or just having perfect 9DoF for tracking data in games, even hardcore gamers would love a controller that can be used as a air mouse in FPS or if the camera was pointing back at you for head tracking that could be used for peeping around corners or ducking & dodging with small gestures.
Add the camera with the tracking processors in the controller & we should be able to scan our rooms into the PS5 & use it in different ways or just having perfect 9DoF for tracking data in games, even hardcore gamers would love a controller that can be used as a air mouse in FPS or if the camera was pointing back at you for head tracking that could be used for peeping around corners or ducking & dodging with small gestures.
bhunachicken
Member
Though I did say that $500 is nothing, I think that if it's not 100% backward compatible with PS4 (+Pro), including controllers, Sony will be shooting themselves in the foot at that price. I don't generally keep a lot of games; I sell them for cash once I've reached a point where I know I'm unlikely to play them again and have no sentimental reasons for holding onto them. I've kept a lot of games this gen, however, more so than any others.
ShirAhava
Plays with kids toys, in the adult gaming world
Really hoping for 2019....2020 is too long of a wait for me pretty sure a GTX 3080TI will blow this monster outta the water
Sold my PS4 and not really interested in BC or future exclusives if Sony/Microsoft are both really late 2020 thats disappointing as hell
Sold my PS4 and not really interested in BC or future exclusives if Sony/Microsoft are both really late 2020 thats disappointing as hell
Tenaciousmo
Member
Im in canada land , but i am aware of it, thanks.
Silent Viper
Banned
X already doing 4k30 in rdr2. New Xbox will reach 4k60 easy.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
You just KNOW arrogant Sony will be back for PS5. They can’t help themselves when in first place.
This is Microsoft’s time to really get the upper hand. Release a system with higher spec for the same or hell cheaper price, and boom. They have the software coming this time, and won’t be caught with their pants down due to TV/DRM etc.
Sony will still be damn good competitors though. They always are. Even in the PS3 days they were a damn hard act to “beat”, but they lost eventually due to arrogance and a few missteps.
Lots of lessons have been learned this gen from everybody. The next console battle (in terms of market not fanboy BS) will be an interesting one that’s for sure!
Can’t wait to watch all the reveals with my wife, who will then insist on preordering every bloody console the second they are shown... I love the woman but she’s going to bankrupt me I swear...
This is Microsoft’s time to really get the upper hand. Release a system with higher spec for the same or hell cheaper price, and boom. They have the software coming this time, and won’t be caught with their pants down due to TV/DRM etc.
Sony will still be damn good competitors though. They always are. Even in the PS3 days they were a damn hard act to “beat”, but they lost eventually due to arrogance and a few missteps.
Lots of lessons have been learned this gen from everybody. The next console battle (in terms of market not fanboy BS) will be an interesting one that’s for sure!
Can’t wait to watch all the reveals with my wife, who will then insist on preordering every bloody console the second they are shown... I love the woman but she’s going to bankrupt me I swear...
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
I don’t need a camera on the pad, I just don’t. What I would like is a PlayStation lad that feels like it won’t snap in my hands, and has a battery life to match Xbox/switch pro.
I’m hoping the next PlayStation pads are different. I know they won’t adopt the stick position of the others, that’s just a PlayStation visual thing now, they will never change it. But I do hope it’s a better pad than the PS4 one (not difficult). The PS4 pad is the worst pad I’ve used since the days of the cheap off brand pads
I’m hoping the next PlayStation pads are different. I know they won’t adopt the stick position of the others, that’s just a PlayStation visual thing now, they will never change it. But I do hope it’s a better pad than the PS4 one (not difficult). The PS4 pad is the worst pad I’ve used since the days of the cheap off brand pads
Gamernyc78
Banned
They use to say the same thing about game releases and certain times of the year. Sony showed you can release a game at anytime like Horizon and if it's good it will sell. Ppl are thirsty this console will sell well all year around especially holidays as long as there isnt a shortage.
ThatOneGrunt
Member
Oh so it’s ok. Do you remember how much shit Microsoft got for the Kinect camera? People were convinced they were going to use it to monitor people. It was irrational, but people used it as a reason to condemn the console. It seemed like misplaced Microsoft bias back then and seems more apparent now with this possible news.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
That's because there's a shitload of Sony fans who will criticize MS since MS is the biggest rival. Nobody cares about Nintendo because they do their own thing and don't get as many third party games, which most are gimped anyway. So Nintendo isn't a threat.
I remember the Kinect stuff too. Funny how you never saw any Sony camera/privacy issues articles when it's the same thing.
Go to N4G and it got taken over by Sony gamers I'd say about 5 years ago.
When it first came out, it was a good source of people submitting articles, so it was a good all-in-one place to see key news instead of flipping through 5-6 key gaming sites. Now, it's basically pro-Sony and anti-MS stuff. And anytime someone gets through a good article about MS, it gets downvoted by 50-100 people right off the bat, and any gamer who posts a message liking any good articles about MS gets their posts downvoted too.
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I don’t need a camera on the pad, I just don’t. What I would like is a PlayStation lad that feels like it won’t snap in my hands, and has a battery life to match Xbox/switch pro.
I’m hoping the next PlayStation pads are different. I know they won’t adopt the stick position of the others, that’s just a PlayStation visual thing now, they will never change it. But I do hope it’s a better pad than the PS4 one (not difficult). The PS4 pad is the worst pad I’ve used since the days of the cheap off brand pads
I'm 200+ lbs with big hands & PS4 controller never felt like it was going to snap in my hands what type of gaming have you been doing where you feel like you're about to snap a controller in half?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Probably because Sony does not work with the DoHS/ICE like MS has been doing for over a decade now. And MS has it in their policies, just like Google, Facebook, etc., to use and sell your information to advertisers.
Sony even denied the FBI and other intelligence for access to messages or the like on the PS4, not to mention, it was optional, not "tied to the system's functionality in order for the console to operate". Japanese companies tend not to play nice when it comes to that from foreign bodies. Things that make one raise an eyebrow with the local companies in the West.
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ThatOneGrunt
Member
Yeah except Microsoft wasn’t working with DoHS or ICE back when they released the Xbox One. And the ICE story only came out this year and Sadya denied that Microsoft was directly working with ICE and condemned their actions. You’re just spewing propaganda.
Also Sony isn’t innocent when it comes to releasing user information to authorities. They gave data to the FBI. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ata-disclosed-to-feds-in-terrorism-probe/amp/
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ThatOneGrunt
Member
Accidental comment.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This is why there were concern:
https://www.theverge.com/2013/6/6/4...-apple-google-facebook-microsoft-others-prism
https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/12/tech/web/microsoft-nsa-snooping/index.html
It was probbaly made easier, because he agreed to it initially. All other cases in the past without the owner's agreement were denied (but the child porn one which by all means nobody should withhold from authorities).
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LordOfChaos
Member
Jaguar was pretty ho-hum for 2013 (though given the constraints they worked with, 8 Jaguar cores back then wasn't a /bad/ choice), and it's absolutely ratty now.
For perspective, one Jaguar core at 1.6GHz is worth 900 points on GB4.
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/compare/10854608
A Ryzen core at 3.1GHz is worth 3700.
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/10872342
So given each the benefit of assuming perfect scaling to 8 cores, we're around a baseline of 4x the performance, and then that's not accounting for Ryzens SMT (two threads per core), Ryzen+ and the hope of Ryzen 2 slotting in, 7nm, possibly an ARM subsystem taking over more of the system so a core and a half don't have to be reserved for the OS...So 5-6x is certainly not out of bounds.
It could run at a lower clock speed than that but hopefully not too much, desktop Ryzen boosts way above 3GHz, so tamping that down plus going to 7nm will hopefully at least let it land around there.
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a multicultural team of v
Member
It wasnt just the camera, it was that the system was on and listening to everything you say, with a camera, 24/7. Of course things like Alexia have gotten people used to something recording them all day, but it wasnt an easy thing to sell in 2013 (and with video still isnt considering how much bad press the Facebook Portal device has recieved.)
edit: remember, the PS4 also launched with a camera and nobody cared, because the PS4's entire value proposition and ecosystem wasn't built around it listening to you all day. 24/7 camera is just a really hard sell and probably will be for a while, seriously take a look at the negative reaction to the Facebook Portal, it is almost identical to the Kinect criticisms.
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rəddəM
Member
I hope they separate the OS resources (cheap but just enough to make it work) from the games/devs resources, giving even more access to the cutting edge specs so that the devs can really take advantage of it.
And whatever it takes to make it not a jet engine. Graphite Thermal Pad? Liquid Metal? Vapor Chamber? Less annoying fan? Basically an open box with dust filters?
All of the above?
Whatever it takes.
And whatever it takes to make it not a jet engine. Graphite Thermal Pad? Liquid Metal? Vapor Chamber? Less annoying fan? Basically an open box with dust filters?
All of the above?
Whatever it takes.
Akuza89
Member
It would have to be with them being so far behind the one X.
They not only need to beat that they need to make something better than it, which is a big ask.
I mean £500 would be a bargain for something that can do this... but they slacked on 4K on the pro with checkerboard rendering instead of going in full 4K, don't say it's not possible on a console, look at the one X.
They not only need to beat that they need to make something better than it, which is a big ask.
I mean £500 would be a bargain for something that can do this... but they slacked on 4K on the pro with checkerboard rendering instead of going in full 4K, don't say it's not possible on a console, look at the one X.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I am going to go out on a limb and think it will be pretty much the same OS at the core that we have now features wise, just with a more spruced up interface/option set for the end user.
SoulChamber
Member
Though smartphones are an entirely different market from home gaming consoles.
Everyone in this day & age has to have a smartphone with them, besides their house/apartment & vehicle keys, & their wallets/purses. Those are the most important items that people happen to carry with them daily.
Owning a home gaming console however, isn't exactly a necessity within most people.
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LittleBusters
Banned
I bet PS5 is an absolute beast!
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LittleBusters
Banned
4k/60fps is already doable with the X and the Pro but...
They'd rather render this NPC's pubic hair so that if you happen to knock her over at the right angle and be looking in the right spot people will take to twitter at just how detailed the game is ...
I have no idea what you circled there. The pen thickness you used is obscuring whatever you meant to show...
LittleBusters
Banned
Maybe power mattered in 2013/2014, but with Nintendo Switch selling monster numbers since it came out has the market changed? Meaning people don't care about having 4K, they just want fun games?
TacosNSalsa
Member
Lol..its a woman sweeping . I couldn't find how to make the pen thickness thinner ..I'm technologically challenged ..damn contraptions..
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REDRZA MWS
Gold Member
You do realize fun games can run at 4k resolution too, right?
autoduelist
Member
You are correct, $500 is not a major obstacle for any dedicated player. However, a successful console launch requires not only consumers who were dedicated enough to save, and those rich enough not to mind, but also a large mass of people who get caught up in the hype and buy. This third group is where sticker shock can hurt a launch. I would argue $500 is on the high end of acceptability, and comes with significant risk. $400 is an established price point and hits the $50 a year for 8 years price point that I believe is safely in the pocket of what people are willing to pay. That extra hundred dollars could potentially hurt a lunch significantly.
Personally, I've already had $400 put away for the PS5 ever since that giant GameStop trade in incident. Putting in an extra hundred dollars is no problem for me. But if I wasn't so motivated, and wasn't paying attention to the industry, and was debating whether to buy into a PS5 at launch, the $500 price point would be on the cusp of 'maybe'/'hell no' whereas $400 is closer to 'sure why not. And those are exactly the people you need to pick up at launch to establish momentum.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And one can just watch anime for the Eastern titles. See how silly that sounds?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
... nice troll 10/10, would read again. There is much more than non interactive sequences in the games and fine you do not like those games after trying them ... maybe better ways than sounding like sour grapes day?
LordOfChaos
Member
Diskless would open really interesting possibilities for cooling, though I know some of the market isn't ready for it. But imagine all that space filled with heat pipes and aluminum fins instead, the fan could be nigh silent.
The other possibility is if it goes back to two discreet chips, but with unified memory which is the main thing devs wanted from an APU. Cooling two points with about half the wattage each is easier than one big chip, could have independently controlled thermal zones etc.
A vapor chamber could work, liquid metal isn't really for consumer mass appliances as if it moves around any it can damage stuff seriously, it eats right through aluminum in a scary way
Either way I do hope Sony hears us on silence being a goal.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Could you elaborate? I don’t agree.
If it’s as powerful as we hope it will be 500 dollars will be a steal.
Mochilador
Member
Yeaah, that always sucks. I wouldn't mind using the same OS again and then updating it with new features.
DarthBuzzer
Member
If they gave up on VR, they'd be pretty much admitting defeat to Microsoft and Nintendo who are both interested in VR.
DarthBuzzer
Member
It's harder every generation to make a leap whilst keeping the $400 price. Gamers shouldn't be so entitled to think that consoles should always be around $400.
People need to just tough it up and accept a potential $500 price for both next gen consoles, because Sony / Microsoft will be taking larger losses than they ever have.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Focusing on some VR features can also be a net positive for those who want power for traditional games. It takes a lot of power to keep driving VR forward in the fidelity/realism department with higher resolutions, assets, and frame-rates. So if they are serious with driving that platform forward, they would have a serious power/tech investment as well to make that push.
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michaelius
Banned
In one of NPD threads we had well known insider with access to numbers confirm that sales of Pro for that month were higher than X. So I think 400$ is much more sane price point unless they are planing to position PS5 as Pro console and ride PS4/PS5 cross gen for few years.
DarthBuzzer
Member
Thank you. Not to mention VR will be the only driving force towards audio propagation and other immersive features that games currently lack but would benefit from.
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