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Sakurai on why Ridley isn't playable in Smash Bros.

I can hit a Swallow with Dugtrio as long as I'm not using a ground type move. Also, Ice Punch is an Ice type move, not a fighting move, meaning it's super effective against flying opponents. Also, it's accuracy still isn't effective by the opponent having the flying type.

Look, the point I'm making with this is that Charizard not being in the air 24/7 is not a betrayal of what Charizard is. Charizard still has good air time, but his moves and playstyle do accurately (within reason, of course) reflect how he plays in Pokemon.
Er, no, Charizard's moves and playstyle do not reflect how he plays in Pokemon. In Pokemon, Charizard is fast, weak defensively, and has a hard-hitting special attack stat. In Smash, Charizard is slow and heavy. He generally fights in close-quarters, often using super-armor to plow through enemy attacks without fear.

And that's just his base stats. Rock Smash is an incredibly odd move to have on Charizard, considering its pathetic power in the games. Flare Blitz makes more sense, but is less appropriate for his signature power move than a Special Attack.
I can hit a Swallow with Dugtrio as long as I'm not using a ground type move. Also, Ice Punch is an Ice type move, not a fighting move, meaning it's super effective against flying opponents. Also, it's accuracy still isn't effective by the opponent having the flying type.
Ice Punch is limited in flavor by sharing its typing with Ice Beam, Icy Wind, and Blizzard, all of which should be powerful against Flying foes.
 
LuigiRosalinaPic.jpg


This image accurately reflects the height of Luigi (5'9") and Rosalina (6'7"). For those who don't believe Rosalina being so tall.
 
Ridley, on the other hand? Ridley is defined by his sweeping attacks, his tail attacks, his long range both with his arms and fireballs. HIs portrayal in the Pyrosphere as well as his potrayal in Brawl are accurate to how he acts in the games. Making him a Smash fighter would involve making him not Ridley to fit the confines of its own game. Just because something sounds like a great idea, doesn't mean it automatically is.

Don't remember the last time Ganon did a warlock punch in a Zelda game, or Luigi the green missile, or Captain Falcon basically any of the moves in any of his own games, or Fox any of the moves he has. Your argument is flawed, as there are many characters that do not play how they're supposed to when looking at their own games. Ike in Brawl was a slow and heavy character, in PoR he is one of the fastest units in his game IIRC. Ridley can still spit fire, and do a tail sweep and jabs just fine if he's a bit scalled down. He can also have a run and grab attack where he drags a person on the ground no problem, hell this could actually be a bit like Ganon's side b but with a few differences given how close Ridley grabs somebody. If Sakurai is apparently so creative then he should be able to create a way to make him plausible. Ridley's long arm reach could just be done by him supporting himself on his tail to "jump" and grab somebody or just use his tail to begin with. Ridley can be done, Sakurai just doesn't want to.
 
Ridley, on the other hand? Ridley is defined by his sweeping attacks, his tail attacks, his long range both with his arms and fireballs. HIs portrayal in the Pyrosphere as well as his potrayal in Brawl are accurate to how he acts in the games. Making him a Smash fighter would involve making him not Ridley to fit the confines of its own game. Just because something sounds like a great idea, doesn't mean it automatically is.
I missed this gem.

Ridley in his first boss fight in Brawl doesn't shoot fire. Even though Ridley shoots fire in literally every appearance he has, he doesn't shoot fire at all in his first Brawl boss fight. You're saying Ridley requires his fireballs a sentence before praising a portrayal of Ridley that doesn't include them.
 
Villain characters are pretty lacking when I look at the roster
What about Duck Hunt Dog? Mewtwo? The Koopalings? They've added tons of villains.

why would you post this in an enthusiast forum for a nerdy hobby
Ridley hype is unsubstantiated. He is just "a dragon" ... Pretty generic choice and honestly I always thought that everyone wanted Ridley as a joke because he's obviously not a good choice fer the game. What about K Rool? Waluigi? Zephiel? Kamek? Hades? Shy Guy? Robotnik? Nabbit? Ganon? King Boo? Skull Kid? Medusa? Any of the robot masters? I can keep going.
 
Just make a him DLC character, this game/series needs more villains.

What about Duck Hunt Dog? Mewtwo? The Koopalings? There's tons of villains.


Ridley hype is unsubstantiated. He is just "a dragon" ... Pretty generic choice and honestly I always thought that everyone wanted Ridley as a joke because he's obviously not a good choice fer the game. What about K Rool? Waluigi? Zephiel? Kamek? Hades? Shy Guy? Robotnik? Nabbit? Ganon? King Boo? Skull Kid? Medusa? Any of the robot masters? I can keep going.

I've never seed Duck Hunt Dog as a villain at all. Mewtwo doesn't count as a villain to me, he's like Gouki/Akuma in SF: Just in it for the fight for his own reasons.

Ridley being a dragon has nothing to do with it; he's one of the main antagonist characters in the Metroid series, so unless they make a Metroid playable, he's the next go to and most recognizable of the Metroid series villains.
 
You know what? Forget it. Just talking to people here makes me hate the idea of Ridley being in Smash even more, because I can tell from how you are acting that no version of a playable Ridley would satisfy you.

My final point is this:

1. Sakuari's reasoning here makes sense. That doesn't mean Ridley is impossible, but very hard to do. Maybe more time was needed, maybe he wanted to focus on other characters, who knows? But the point here is that his reason does make sense.

2. I would like an accurate version of Ridley. I just don't see a scaled down Ridley as being accurate to how I see him. Maybe you all can like Ridley being small, I can't. I'd rather have him be that big boss character than a featherless chicken that can barely fly.

Won't stop all of you going "You just can't argue with us! We're clearly superior" comments but I'm already disgusted by the majority of the Smash community anyways.

EDIT: Actually one more:

3. Just because Ridley is not in the game, doesn't make Smash 4 "The worse one ever" or make Sakurai "The George Lucas of Smash". Get over your on big heads and stop equating everything to Sakurai hating you.
 
What about Duck Hunt Dog? Mewtwo? The Koopalings? There's tons of villains.


Ridley hype is unsubstantiated. He is just "a dragon" ... Pretty generic choice and honestly I always thought that everyone wanted Ridley as a joke because he's obviously not a good choice fer the game. What about K Rool? Waluigi? Zephiel? Kamek? Hades? Shy Guy? Robotnik? Nabbit? Ganon? King Boo? Skull Kid? Medusa? Any of the robot masters? I can keep going.

Duck Hunt and Mewtwo aren't villains. The Koopalings are just palette swaps of Bowser Jr.

None of them are Metroid characters. I'm not sure how you've managed to avoid the massive demand for Waluigi,
 
Lol, look how wide he is! He's like, four character width.

He still isn't small enough. Squish him to about half that and he'll look even worse.

Ridley would be as large if not slightly larger than Bowser. Using the Meta or Omega models would add bulk, the super model isn't that great on limb girth, you are right there.
 
What about Duck Hunt Dog? Mewtwo? The Koopalings? There's tons of villains.

DHD isn't a villain in the slightest. I don't consider Mewtwo a villain. More a antagonist. Koopalings seems rather artificial. And is more a antagonist. Much like Bowser.

Only real villain character I can see is Ganondorf which isn't really a true Ganondorf anyway.

It's disappointing that we don't even have a FE Villain yet.

And Robin doesn't count
 
and the melee circlejerk keeps on going. seriously, brawl is not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination

Which is still a great game, by the way. Just because it isn't your precious Melee doesn't mean it's a poor game. If Brawl truly represents the worst game you have ever played, than I congratulate you for avoiding all the crap that comes out of the gaming world.

You know I didn't say anything about melee, right? I think Smash 64 is a pretty cool game too. And as a fighting game, brawl is bad. There's so many changes that make the game worse than its predecessors: the minimal hitstun combined with infinite airdodges that make combos a rarity, the overpowered recoveries that made edgeguarding mostly hopeless, the general lagginess, the tripping, the awful physics...it's a clear step down from its predecessors. The worst part is that this isn't a case of Sakurai fucking up. It's clear from what he says in the press that this is the game that he wanted to make because he has an irrational fear that the mere existence of higher level gameplay will scare off casual players, as if 64 and Melee weren't hugely popular with players of all skill levels.

Brawl is also the worst in the series as a casual game.
 
Lol, look how wide he is! He's like, four character width.

He still isn't small enough. Squish him to about half that and he'll look even worse.

He's wider than Bowser and Bowser in SSB is the limit to how wide a character can be. Like I said, it'd throw of the delicate balance achieved by Melee and (especially) Brawl.

Why can that never work?

How would sweeping/tail attacks work with a playable character? Having a dash attack that has to be contextual for either being in the air or on the ground would be unfeasible.
 
You know I didn't say anything about melee, right? I think Smash 64 is a pretty cool game too. And as a fighting game, brawl is bad. There's so many changes that make the game worse than its predecessors: the minimal hitstun combined with infinite airdodges that make combos a rarity, the overpowered recoveries that made edgeguarding mostly hopeless, the general lagginess, the tripping, the awful physics...it's a clear step down from its predecessors. The worst part is that this isn't a case of Sakurai fucking up. It's clear from what he says in the press that this is the game that he wanted to make because he has an irrational fear that the mere existence of higher level gameplay will scare off casual players, as if 64 and Melee weren't hugely popular with players of all skill levels.

Brawl is also the worst in the series as a casual game.

the point is that it is still a very good and polished game, but it isnt good on a competitive high level. like DmC, perfectly fine game but hated because it isnt as CHURAZY or challenging as 3/4 and bayo
 
is it weird that I actually kinda sorta maybe like the burning lava fish

also I knew people were going to drag Melee vs Brawl into this at some point
 
Ridley's appearance in the Wii U version is pretty clearly intended to be a bone thrown to Ridley fans, as him joining your side after beating him up has fuck all to do with anything that's ever happened in a Metroid game. That said, I think this was a mistake, in that it almost seems like its taunting fans and seems to call to much attention to his lack of playability in a way his appearance in Brawl didn't. He probably would have been better served just being a normal stage boss like the Yellow Devil.

I think Sakurai is right that his size is an important part of his character. I've never seen a resized Ridley that didn't look ridiculous in terms of aesthetics and/or balance. But his other reasonings ring hollow, especially the "accurate portrayals" after the super accurate winning portrayals of Wario, Ganondorf, and Zero Suit Samus.

So while I do empathize with Ridley being a problem size-wise, I do think Metroid does get unfairly shafted in Smash Bros. and could do with better representation, though with the newest Smash Bros. this is definitely a wider problem that affects nearly every series that isn't Mario or Kid Icarus.
 
Just make a him DLC character, this game/series needs more villains.



I've never seed Duck Hunt Dog as a villain at all. Mewtwo doesn't count as a villain to me, he's like Gouki/Akuma in SF: Just in it for the fight for his own reasons.

Ridley being a dragon has nothing to do with it; he's one of the main antagonist characters in the Metroid series, so unless they make a Metroid playable, he's the next go to and most recognizable of the Metroid series villains.

Duck Hunt and Mewtwo aren't villains. The Koopalings are just palette swaps of Bowser Jr.

None of them are Metroid characters. I'm not sure how you've managed to avoid the massive demand for Waluigi,


DHD isn't a villain in the slightest. I don't consider Mewtwo a villain. More a antagonist. Koopalings seems rather artificial. And is more a antagonist. Much like Bowser.

Only real villain character I can see is Ganondorf which isn't really a true Ganondorf anyway.

It's disappointing that we don't even have a FE Villain yet.

And Robin doesn't count

They most certainly are villains. Have you played Duck Hunt? The way he laughs at you? He's a villain, lol. Mewtwo tried to destroy humanity, he's a villain. You guys can try to be subjective about who and who isn't a villain, but at the end of the day it's pretty cut and dry. "Lol Bowser isn't a villain" makes no sense. As far as there not being a villain from Metroid? Blame lazy character designers.
 
How would sweeping/tail attacks work with a playable character? Having a dash attack that has to be contextual for either being in the air or on the ground would be unfeasible.

make the aerial down B be a single swipe, like the multiple ones the brawl boss has. make the ground variety a sweep like Ike's down a, or any other sword character. it just has to be a swipe. Fireballs could either be a samus like charge shot or flame thrower ala charizard.

Mewtwo tried to destroy humanity, he's a villain.

Only in an anime movie, not in the Pokemon games. if i remember right, all he did in RBY/FRLG was break out of a lab.
 
They most certainly are villains. Have you played Duck Hunt? The way he laughs at you? He's a villain, lol. Mewtwo tried to destroy humanity, he's a villain. You guys can try to be subjective about who and who isn't a villain, but at the end of the day it's pretty cut and dry. "Lol Bowser isn't a villain" makes no sense. As far as there not being a villain from Metroid? Blame lazy character designers.

I must have missed when Mewtwo tried to destroy humanity in the games. He was just chilling out in a cave.
 
No one would be bothered by the Ridley on the right:

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Ridley's inclusion would destroy the Smash series' careful balance though.

I feel like Ridley on the right is more troublesome, honestly. His head alone is almost the size of Samus, who's already one of the larger characters on the roster.

And dat neck.
 
What about Duck Hunt Dog? Mewtwo? The Koopalings? They've added tons of villains.
Ridley hype is unsubstantiated. He is just "a dragon" ... Pretty generic choice and honestly I always thought that everyone wanted Ridley as a joke because he's obviously not a good choice fer the game. What about K Rool? Waluigi? Zephiel? Kamek? Hades? Shy Guy? Robotnik? Nabbit? Ganon? King Boo? Skull Kid? Medusa? Any of the robot masters? I can keep going.

Hahah what? Duck Hunt Dog isn't a villain, Mewtwo was a villain about 10 years ago and even then he wasn't even the main antagonist kind of like how Ridley has been for almost the entire Metroid series pretty much and just about the farthest thing from generic.

Also, a lot of people want Waluigi and K Rool and there were even a few people wanting Skull Kid. Some of your other choices though? Shy guy: Literally a generic enemy from the mario series. Kid Icarus has enough characters with 3 given Sakurai's favoritism to one of the properties he worked on no thanks on Hades nor Medusa. Nobody wants 3rd party villains when their respective protagonists are more important so there goes Robotnik and the robot masters. King Boo is only barely the antagonist to Luigi but even then Luigi had to wait until now to get the Poltergust as an FS and King Boo is still just another reused boss in many Mario games where he's not in the main antagonist role. Nabbit is fairly recent and just a one-off enemy so far nowhere near as important as somebody like Ridley is to Metroid. As for Zephiel, this is coming from somebody who loves Fire Emblem, it's one of my favorite Nintendo series, but no there are so many much better options for FE characters that could be used not to mention better villains.

I know you weren't serious with some of the other responses but still. Calling Ridley generic is just being ignorant of his importance to the Metroid series, he's pretty much Samus' Bowser.
 
Of course he can i mean just look at him

If Ridley can metal face can too!
XENOBLADE SPOILERS
Metal Face is a mech. Its pilot is human-sized and fights on foot at one point. This is what the poster was referring to.
XENOBLADE SPOILERS

Ridley hype is unsubstantiated. He is just "a dragon" ... Pretty generic choice and honestly I always thought that everyone wanted Ridley as a joke because he's obviously not a good choice fer the game. What about K Rool? Waluigi? Zephiel? Kamek? Hades? Shy Guy? Robotnik? Nabbit? Ganon? King Boo? Skull Kid? Medusa? Any of the robot masters? I can keep going.
lol
 
the point is that it is still a very good and polished game, but it isnt good on a competitive high level. like DmC, perfectly fine game but hated because it isnt as CHURAZY or challenging as 3/4 and bayo

But those changes affect all levels of play. You don't have to win evo to appreciate good momentum physics or find tripping annoying.
 
The one thing about that Ridley Samus height comparison pick is sure he's scaled down to a somewhat acceptable size but his hitbox is ridiculously huge.
 
As has been pointed out repeatedly, Sakurai's size and "physicality/can't be modified" excuses are really reaching as Bowser is already huge in Smash and in the Mario universe he often goes from being slightly smaller than his Smash/SMB proportions to full on Godzilla sized not to mention many of the other characters often don't behave the same way they do in their own games.

Example: Kirby has unlimited flight in the Dreamland/core series, so based on this reasoning isn't Sakurai greatly "compromising" Kirby by only allowing him to fly/float about four times in Smash when that's obviously only necessary in order to maintain fighter balance? Heck, being able to float/fly with Kirby *at all* in Smash gives players like me who use him as their main a massive advantage in avoiding dropping off the edge and being able to narrowly avoid being KO'd off the screen multiple times. And being able to float doesn't even hold a candle to his copy ability, pile driver/anvil move, cutter, ect. But Ridley would be overpowered and should only be used as a boss/assist?

So using the Bowser/Kirby model, I don't see why he couldn't just make Ridley a bit smaller (if Sakurai is really concerned about maintaining basic in-universe canon from the outside games, technically, Ridley was originally the same size as Samus in NES Metroid), give him limited flight ability like with Kirby and you have a starting point for putting Ridley in Smash.

Edit: And turkey neck/gangly arm Ridley has already been retconned and heavily modified anyways by Team Ninja/OM's version of Ridley.
 
The one thing about that Ridley Samus height comparison pick is sure he's scaled down to a somewhat acceptable size but his hitbox is ridiculously huge.
Having a massive hurtbox and gaps in hitboxes you could drive a truck through would make for a pretty unique character though. We already have a bit of that with Wii Fit Trainer and it's really interesting. Alternatively you could just say "fuck it", give him infinite flight and make his wings destructable (which doubles as a reference to the Prime games). There's still potential to do some really unique things with Ridley, just no will to put in the (admittedly bigger than Ridley) amount of effort required to realise that potential.
 
The "well other characters aren't 100% accurate" response doesn't really fly. Ridley is not only defined in all Metroid games (save the first) as being several times larger than the player, he also has thin gangly proportions that would look bizarre and fragile at a "normal" size unless you removed his tail and completely changed his limbs and torso. He's also consistently defined by his ability to fly all the time and his extremely long reaching attacks.

Olimar, Kirby, and Bowser do not have this problem at all.

A very reasonable response that everyone decided to ignore.
 
So many of the responses in this thread have me shaking my head. When it comes to size or "providing accurate portrayals of the characters" he's not talking about a literal 1:1 representation, he's talking about what works. When you see Olimar or Kirby (or even Charizard) on the screen you don't go "What? That's not how large they are!" because their canon size is pretty much irrelevant. You see the world of these characters at their scale in their respective games, so when they change sizes it's not something that's visually jarring. They retain their essence no matter what size they are. This also goes for Bowser, who's a popular (and silly) example in this argument.

Ridley's essence does not carry over if you make him Samus' size, or Bowser's size, or even Dedede's. He's supposed to be a huge, terrifying dragon who dwarfs the player. His portrayal in Brawl is in keeping with this. There is no set of changes that can be made to shrink him down and preserve this aspect of his character, particularly with the way his body is configured. Earlier there was a poster who claimed that it "wasn't impossible, but probably very hard." I assure you all that Sakurai's tried again and again to make him work, and it never did. You don't think he would try to get the character that's consistently on top of fan lists into the game?

How would you make his body work so that he didn't take up 1.5x the space that Bowser did? You'd have to crumple him somehow. Make his neck shorter, shrink his wings, remove his tail. How would he move without stretching himself out?

Also, I'm certain that the people who bring up Ganondorf's moveset aren't interested in having an honest discussion on the matter. Sure, it would be better if he was more distinct or if he could shoot a beam at least (which is his trademark move, actually,) but there's a huge difference between Sakurai's interpretation of a character's moveset and how wholly he can adhere to the character's likeness.

Jesus Christ. The delusion.
 
They most certainly are villains. Have you played Duck Hunt? The way he laughs at you? He's a villain, lol. Mewtwo tried to destroy humanity, he's a villain. You guys can try to be subjective about who and who isn't a villain, but at the end of the day it's pretty cut and dry. "Lol Bowser isn't a villain" makes no sense. As far as there not being a villain from Metroid? Blame lazy character designers.

Bowser is a villain. Does Mewtwo want to destroy humanity in the Pokemon games?
If in the context of Duck Hunt, the Dog is considered a villain...nah I never saw him as a villain.
 
A very reasonable response that everyone decided to ignore.

Ridley fans don't understand what logic is.

I'm glad he's a boss character. People need to stop comparing him to Bowser just because he changes size every game. Also, Bowser has a personality, which is something Ridley can't say. He's just a mindless monster and will always remain that way.
 
The "well other characters aren't 100% accurate" response doesn't really fly. Ridley is not only defined in all Metroid games (save the first) as being several times larger than the player, he also has thin gangly proportions that would look bizarre and fragile at a "normal" size unless you removed his tail and completely changed his limbs and torso. He's also consistently defined by his ability to fly all the time and his extremely long reaching attacks.

Olimar, Kirby, and Bowser do not have this problem at all.

Neither is "being defined by his ability to fly". There are plenty of characters that should be able to fly but do not, or characters that are defined by their ability to do something else yet either have that supposed character defining trait toned down or completely absent, there is nothing stopping Ridley from having limited flight like those characters or just being toned down. I don't see how his proportions looking bizarre and fragile really harm the character. Ridley isn't exactly supposed to look "normal" nor was he ever supposed to look buff like in Other M. Charizard's arms and neck aren't all that different from Ridley's (neck might be but not the arms). When he's on the ground he can just close his wings in a bit and maybe tuck his tail in or hold it vertically behind him, it's not like it has to continuously drag on the floor. As for long reaching attacks, just like ZSS' whip he can just use his tail as a means to attack from a distance, use it to propel him forward for a grab or even use the dhalsim example of stretchy limbs after all Mario's knuckles and feet blow up when he's hitting somebody. This is all a matter of putting in effort to properly scale down a character that Sakurai just doesn't seem to care to commit to for whatever reason.
 
Ridley fans don't understand what logic is.

I'm glad he's a boss character. People need to stop comparing him to Bowser just because he changes size every game. Also, Bowser has a personality, which is something Ridley can't say. He's just a mindless monster and will always remain that way.

A mindless monster that somehow commands an entire race of space pirates, flies a command ship, and built a robot in his own image. I'm sure all of those monitors in his lair in Super were for watching Fox News.
 
A mindless monster that somehow commands an entire race of space pirates, flies a command ship, and built a robot in his own image. I'm sure all of those monitors in his lair in Super were for watching Fox News.

And fully talks like a human and even had a look of (very brief) sympathy on his face for 'lil Samus after his raid on the colony (official manga).
 
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