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Saturn or N64?
- Thread starter CurseoftheGods
- Start date
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Did they? I was actually surprised at how well some games looked and ran considering their age.
Virtua Cop 2 for example looks amazing to me.
Yeah that's true. 10fps is an exaggeration I believe, but it's true that many games ran really slow. You ended up getting used to it lol, or at least I'm able to play it's games without issues (except Conker and Banjo-Tooie, those two I feel run way too bad)
German Shocks
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
An Corp
Member
N64 for me
-- N64 just had that perfect 4-player vibe with games like Mario Kart 64, Goldeneye/Perfect Dark, Smash Bros, Mario Party, Diddy Kong Racing, and even stuff like Bomberman 64 or Star Fox 64 co-op. Saturn had some local play but nothing that matched the sheer volume of couch chaos Nintendo delivered.
-- Mario 64 basically invented the 3D platformer, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are still all-timers for adventure and storytelling. Banjo-Kazooie, Conker, Jet Force Gemini — that library just felt more polished and fun to revisit than a lot of Saturn's stuff for me personally.
-- I know it's wonky for some but the N64 stick + those chunky buttons just clicked for 3D games. Analog control made a huge difference in platformers and shooters compared to the Saturn pad (which was great for 2D fighters though, no doubt in that).
I realize the 64 is not everyone's favorite, but to me it was the system that made me so excited for the future of gaming. Exploring those new 3D world just opened up a new experience for me in almost every game. I remember my brother and I would try to explore off track areas in Mario Kart 64 lol.
-- N64 just had that perfect 4-player vibe with games like Mario Kart 64, Goldeneye/Perfect Dark, Smash Bros, Mario Party, Diddy Kong Racing, and even stuff like Bomberman 64 or Star Fox 64 co-op. Saturn had some local play but nothing that matched the sheer volume of couch chaos Nintendo delivered.
-- Mario 64 basically invented the 3D platformer, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are still all-timers for adventure and storytelling. Banjo-Kazooie, Conker, Jet Force Gemini — that library just felt more polished and fun to revisit than a lot of Saturn's stuff for me personally.
-- I know it's wonky for some but the N64 stick + those chunky buttons just clicked for 3D games. Analog control made a huge difference in platformers and shooters compared to the Saturn pad (which was great for 2D fighters though, no doubt in that).
I realize the 64 is not everyone's favorite, but to me it was the system that made me so excited for the future of gaming. Exploring those new 3D world just opened up a new experience for me in almost every game. I remember my brother and I would try to explore off track areas in Mario Kart 64 lol.
MazingerDUDE
Member
NeverYouMind
Member
All of these play infinitely better:
Sega Rally Championship
Fighter's Megamix
Real Bout Fatal Fury Special
Vampire Savior
Megaman X4
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Metal Slug
Dungeons & Dragons: Shadow over Mystara
nkarafo
Member
When this topic was first made, the N64 was 15y old. Now the topic itself is also 15y old.Today is peace day.
You necroed this on purpose, right? So i figured it out, what do i win?
MazingerDUDE
Member
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Yeah I mentioned that game and Tooie as the ones running really bad. But just like with BAT on the Saturn, I think you are cherry picking and trying to shit on the whole catalog of both consoles with those examples , which isn't fair at all.
At the end of the day it's your loss. I'm happy being able to play all N64, Saturn and PS1 games.
nkarafo
Member
Play other games. F-Zero X, Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Doom 64, Shadowman, Turok 1, etc.
The Saturn also had plenty of games with awful frame rates.
You guys can't do a debate without completely trashing the opposition and exaggerate their flaws.
Every single one of those examples (apart from Fighters Megamix) are ports. And in most cases downgraded ones. Like, why would you list Castlevania or Metal Slug in a "Best of Saturn" list?
Notice how when someone lists the best N64 games they are mostly exclusives or at least games where the N64 was the target platform.
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MazingerDUDE
Member
You say I'm cherry picking? I had both the N64 and Saturn back then, so I know how their games ran.
A steady 20fps was considered as 'stable frame rate' on N64 and it felt the game was lagging when it drops to 15fps.
And there were TONS of moments when it felt downright UNPLAYABLE in games like Golden Eye and Blast Corps,
It was so horrible that I remember vividly even to these days like PTSD.
NeverYouMind
Member
nkarafo
Member
Nah, that's another exaggerated, blanket, console war bait statement.
They are still better than anything on N64 exclusive or not.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Games didn't run perfect, sure, but come on lol.
Wolzard
Member
If it's due to the transparency effect, it appears normally on a CRT TV. This image is from an emulator with raw pixels.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
F-Zero X still feels like it's running at 500fps, lol. That game is really impressive.
The N64 redefined the medium with a dozen games or so.
The Saturn had hundreds that a dozen people or so ever heard of.
Both offered great games.
nkarafo
Member
Depends on the TV and cables. If you used a regular TV with RF or composite, sure, the dithering pattern would blend itself to a fake transparency.
But this isn't a Mega Drive that has limited colors so it needs to blend fake colors. It's a "next gen" machine that was also known for it's ultra sharp, high quality output. If you were going to pursue that path, using a better TV and better cables, you would see sharper looking graphics like the Saturn allows but also the dithering patterns as well, no transparencies this time.
The transparencies problem on Saturn was a legit problem.
nkarafo
Member
Yeah. It usually gets a lot of flak for being a "simple" looking game with no detailed backgrounds etc, but it had other things to impress you with like 30 crafts on screen at once while other chaotic stuff happening at the same time, like managing to destroy a bunch of opponents at once, seeing them pinball against the sides of the road while exploding.
As an expert in this game, i was able to push it to it's limits and see some impressive stuff on screen.
For that i always thought this game makes more use of the CPU than the GPU. The N64 had a very strong CPU compared to the competition and it ended up being bottlenecked most of the time. But F-Zero X has all the elements of a CPU heavy game (number of objects on screen with they own physics, etc) and not as much of anything else.
MazingerDUDE
Member
I really do remember them all, like how I had difficulty aiming with sniper rifle in Golden Eye because the frame rate plummeted to like 7fps, destroying pipes with the robot in Blast Corp dropped fps down to like 5 fps with all the explosions, how about Killer Instinct Gold where its frame rate severely stuttered whenever that 3D chopper on the background was shown on screen, and every time I make a sharp turn in Red Woods in Cruisin' USA it turned the scene into a slide show.
I never had such poor gaming experience in any of the other consoles. Saturn just looked ugly, but the performance on N64 was downright criminal. It should've been illegal to sell.
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cireza
Member
Kinda doubt this. And overall Saturn had more games, and more good games anyway.
Wolzard
Member
No, even using S-Video, you didn't see the pixels that way. This effect was widely used, including on the PS1, to mitigate the dithering effect.
Consoles up to the sixth generation were designed to be viewed on CRTs.
Even in emulators, it's mandatory to use some kind of CRT filter.
Sohurmk833
Member
I mean if you were a huge fan of (2D) arcade games and had access to all that japanese stuff the Saturn was certainly a great console. Maybe for JRPG fans too. Although i doubt it was anywhere close to the PSX in that regard.
For most people though the N64 was leagues ahead. Plenty of genre defining games that had no equals on other platforms.
MazingerDUDE
Member
No it's not just about the transparencies, it was just a piece of shit hardware which was nothing but a laughing stock back then only sega fanboys won't admit.
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Wolzard
Member
No it's not just about the transparencies, it was just a piece of shit hardware which was nothing but a laughing stock back then only sega fanboys won't admit.
What difference does that make, besides inflating the ego of a fanboy?
The Sega Saturn is an excellent console with wonderful games. It might have been somewhat weak in 3D due to the technical difficulties of using the hardware, but that didn't stop it from having some very good games.
nkarafo
Member
No, even using S-Video, you didn't see the pixels that way. This effect was widely used, including on the PS1, to mitigate the dithering effect.
Consoles up to the sixth generation were designed to be viewed on CRTs.
Even in emulators, it's mandatory to use some kind of CRT filter.
Fair enough. I don't have the equipment to see this myself so i wont argue.
The Model 2 also couldn't do transparencies and i happen to have a friend that has a real Sega Rally 1 twin arcade cabinet and i can still see the dithering pattern when i play the game. So i thought a good enough TV with RGB cables also don't blend the dithering as much and you see more of the raw pixels.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
Damn. What a bump.
I'm all N64 though. Just Mario 64 and the Zeldas are enough to put it over the Saturn for me. And don't get me wrong, I love the Saturn.
I'm all N64 though. Just Mario 64 and the Zeldas are enough to put it over the Saturn for me. And don't get me wrong, I love the Saturn.
MazingerDUDE
Member
So, games looked worse and ran worse, and you think there's no difference.
God I hate fanboys.
Wolzard
Member
So, games looked worse and ran worse, and you think there's no difference.
God I hate fanboys.
A fanboy is someone who feels the need to assert themselves through these carefully selected comparisons.
Yes, the games run worse, but it wasn't that dramatic. CRT TVs have always handled different framerates and resolutions better.
This doesn't make the console worse. You go after the exclusive games, or the 2D titles that are superior.
nkarafo
Member
I don't like the Saturn personally and i agree. Instead of blanket statements it should be about each game individually. Because even though i'm not a fan, i still adore a bunch of games like the awesome Duke Nukem 3D Saturn port.
Wolzard
Member
Wolzard
So i tried Sega Rally on my Saturn, on my CRT TV, using composite/scart. And i still see the dither patterns on the windows, no transparencies.
I don't know, maybe other games handle this better?
If your SCART cable is an RGB SCART cable, you are getting the cleanest signal the Saturn can provide. To mash those pixels together, you actually have to downgrade your video signal to a yellow-ended RCA Composite or a S-Video cable.
MazingerDUDE
Member
NeverYouMind
Member
Controversial Opinion: That generation of console hardware (N64/PS1/SAT) was shit all around. They were all experimenting with new technology and formats while cutting corners to keep them affordable.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
PS > Saturn > N64
MazingerDUDE
Member
Not controversial at all, as PS1 was like the third worst console ever with its ridiculous loading time and piss poor built quality that are guaranteed to break (to be more precise not able to read discs) in 2 years.
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Aretak
Member
One could just as easily cherrypick a bunch of games which looked and/or ran better on the Saturn, like PowerSlave, Grandia, Duke Nukem 3D and Dead or Alive (which runs at a full 60fps on the Saturn versus 30fps on PS1). But then you're not actually interested in a discussion, and are just a pitiful manchild still fighting a 90s console war whilst accusing other people of doing the thing you're doing to deflect.
So, games looked worse and ran worse, and you think there's no difference.
God I hate fanboys.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Yup. It basically came down to this:
If you wanted 3D at good performance + lot of unique first party games since Sony was new + CD player/game discs = PS1
If you wanted 2D at good performance + lots of Sega arcade ports + CD player/game discs = Saturn
If you wanted latest 3D tricks like anti-aliasing (at the time I think PC 3D cards were just selling so it was an early thing in gaming) + Nintendo first party + ok with higher priced carts = Nintendo
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MazingerDUDE
Member
Yeah, because Saturn version used flat shaded textures looking a generation behind PS1 version.
About 90% of the games looked and ran better on PS1, and you're talking about the cherry picking lol.
NeverYouMind
Member
Yet it is the version included by Itagaki in Dead or Alive Ultimate (remaster collection for classic Xbox).
Yeah, because Saturn version used flat shaded textures looking a generation behind PS1 version.
About 90% of the games looked and ran better on PS1, and you're talking about the cherry picking lol.
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CashPrizes
Member
Saturn 1000%
N64 has like 4 games worth playing again, Saturn has 20+
Especially nowadays, lots of great exclusives locked to Saturn. You can find other ways to play Mario 64 and Ocarina.
N64 has like 4 games worth playing again, Saturn has 20+
Especially nowadays, lots of great exclusives locked to Saturn. You can find other ways to play Mario 64 and Ocarina.
German Shocks
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
nkarafo
Member
Smells like AI video
Gamer79
Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
Zelda:OoT, Mario 64 , Starfox 64, Mario kart 64, Turok, Killer Instinct, Blast Corps, Goldeneye 007, and so many more says different.
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nkarafo
Member
Thread needs more later N64 titles (after the Saturn was dead)
- Shadowman
- Episode 1 Racer
- World Driver Championship
- Space Station Silicon Valley
- Quake 2
- Hydro Thunder
- Toy Story 2
Shadowman, in particular, was a masterpiece for me and the N64 version was very good (i think it was the target version, though it could be a PC game first). The game was massive and looked great and yet the performance was far better than other Acclaim games. The game was even smooth enough in high-res mode with the expansion pack. This (and Quake 2) were some of the very few games where the higher quality mode didn't completely tank performance and made the expansion pack worth it.
WDC was the best looking racing game of the generation. Except maybe Ridge Racer Type 4.
Quake 2 was nice and smooth, with all new maps so it was basically like playing a new expansion. The expansion pack wasn't used for high res but for better quality textures (literally like a PC game) and didn't tank performance.
Toy Story 2 is one of the underrated 3D platformers IMO. Made by Traveler Tales, this game was very impressive technically.
Most of the games in this list (especially Shadowman and Toy Story 2) were beyond the 3D capabilities of the Saturn, even if the console was alive and well there is no way it could handle those games. Shadowman was too much even for the PS1 but it did have decent ports of Hydro Thunder and Toy Story 2. Quake 2 was arguably a more impressive port on the PS1 but it was close. Space Station Silicon Valley on PS1 was a joke port though. Episode 1 Racing didn't have a port on the PS1 at all, which makes me think it was too much for the hardware, otherwise why wouldn't such a big title be released on the most popular console?
- Shadowman
- Episode 1 Racer
- World Driver Championship
- Space Station Silicon Valley
- Quake 2
- Hydro Thunder
- Toy Story 2
Shadowman, in particular, was a masterpiece for me and the N64 version was very good (i think it was the target version, though it could be a PC game first). The game was massive and looked great and yet the performance was far better than other Acclaim games. The game was even smooth enough in high-res mode with the expansion pack. This (and Quake 2) were some of the very few games where the higher quality mode didn't completely tank performance and made the expansion pack worth it.
WDC was the best looking racing game of the generation. Except maybe Ridge Racer Type 4.
Quake 2 was nice and smooth, with all new maps so it was basically like playing a new expansion. The expansion pack wasn't used for high res but for better quality textures (literally like a PC game) and didn't tank performance.
Toy Story 2 is one of the underrated 3D platformers IMO. Made by Traveler Tales, this game was very impressive technically.
Most of the games in this list (especially Shadowman and Toy Story 2) were beyond the 3D capabilities of the Saturn, even if the console was alive and well there is no way it could handle those games. Shadowman was too much even for the PS1 but it did have decent ports of Hydro Thunder and Toy Story 2. Quake 2 was arguably a more impressive port on the PS1 but it was close. Space Station Silicon Valley on PS1 was a joke port though. Episode 1 Racing didn't have a port on the PS1 at all, which makes me think it was too much for the hardware, otherwise why wouldn't such a big title be released on the most popular console?
N64 for me, but I had both and respect both. Both were good at different things, but I used and enjoyed my N64 much more. The highs were higher consistently.
Shout out to Shadowman and some of the later games that many people probably missed. Great version of Rayman 2. The place to be for the best Wrestling games. Rare, Nintendo first party, good Star Wars games too. So good when you add the multi-player.
Sadly, I loved my Saturn because it was the best place to play Capcom Aracade games with ram expansion cartridges. That is what I remember most about the system. Being angry with missing Shining Force 2/3 in english, Sega's giving up. Japense imports carried the system for many years.
Shout out to Shadowman and some of the later games that many people probably missed. Great version of Rayman 2. The place to be for the best Wrestling games. Rare, Nintendo first party, good Star Wars games too. So good when you add the multi-player.
Sadly, I loved my Saturn because it was the best place to play Capcom Aracade games with ram expansion cartridges. That is what I remember most about the system. Being angry with missing Shining Force 2/3 in english, Sega's giving up. Japense imports carried the system for many years.
