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[outsida]

EDIT2: Holy fuck, that's a long post. :lol

Long but fairly accurate to the situation good post.

Where were you two hours ago?

:lol :lol

He was starting that post. These things take time.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Starchasing]

Was this unexpected? Looks like what? 800k/900k for december npd? I fail to see how this represents a turn in the tide, or amazing numbers.

Sounds pretty average, and even bad if the 360 and the wii end up getting from 1.6 to 2 million sales.

But they are releasing their PR before NPD sales, and that probably means that they got killed compared to the rest of consoles.

If they had sold more than 360 they would wait until actual NPD were released to then proclaim that they outsold the 360

Since they outsold no one they had to get their PR out quick before we know all the numbers. Only then we could appreciate how "well" the ps3 is doing

the X360 is pretty much a guaranteed return scenario - provided you meet the 'standard' requirements that most X360 big sellers share.

Thats a circular argument

You get to sell lots if you make a game that meets the requirents of a game that sells a lot.


The problem is that there is not such thing as "s standard requirement for a big seller" If it was so then there would be 200 more games like bioshock or AC , after you you said it was a guaranteed return scenerio.

There are not 200 games b¡like that because there is nothing guaranteed, not even on Wii or DS

 

[spwolf]

* Europe is somewhere between at par between X360 and PS3 and a commanding PS3 lead, hardware-wise; its software sales seem to be even more slanted towards Nintendo than elsewhere in the world. As far as I can tell, there's no evidence on hand that PS3 is producing software sales that are either as actively excellent as X360's American software numbers, or as far ahead of X360's Euro sales as X360's American sales are ahead of PS3's American numbers (but please do correct me if there are unambiguous indicators that this is the case) -- it seems most likely that PS3 is putting up solid (but not necessarily remarkable) software sales, while X360 is somewhere in the range between solid and poor.
l

so you basically you picked up all the info from your nose while sitting on the toilet?

Before you write lenghty posts, why not first check solid data we have and then use it to form your opinion. It would work much, much better and reading these lenghty posts would not feel like it is waste of time.

 

[le.phat]

so many virgin sacrifices this thread will claim...
the modgods will be pleased tonight

*goes to prepare the rites*

 

[Pureauthor]

Thats a circular argument

You get to sell lots if you make a game that meets the requirents of a game that sells a lot.


The problem is that there is not such thing as "s standard requirement for a big seller" If it was so then there would be 200 more games like bioshock or AC , after you you said it was a guaranteed return scenerio.

There are not 200 games b¡like that because there is nothing guaranteed, not even on Wii or DS

Yes, that depends on how varied the requirements are, aren't they?

We've seen that things with a decidedly Western slant in aesthetics succeed admirably on the 360, even if they come from Japan (say hi, Capcom!), especially when backed by strong marketing. It's pretty much a sure thing that the hyped title-of-the-month almost always succeeds.

so you basically you picked up all the info from your nose while sitting on the toilet?

Before you write lenghty posts, why not first check solid data we have and then use it to form your opinion. It would work much, much better and reading these lenghty posts would not feel like it is waste of time.

So go find that 'solid data' and give it to us.

And before you tell someone else to do it, the burden of proof lies upon you. You made a positive assertion that something exists (The data exists). charlequin made a negative assertion (We don't have the necessary data). The positive assertion bears the burden of proof, since the negative assertion can't point to nothingness and say 'there's your proof!'

 

[charlequin]

Where were you two hours ago?

Making coffee?

He was starting that post. These things take time.

:lol

Thats a circular argument

You get to sell lots if you make a game that meets the requirents of a game that sells a lot.

It's not, really. The X360 in the US is remarkably consistent in delivering sales to certain kinds of games. Shooters that score above 85 in review aggregates, for example, pretty consistently put up sales north of 300k. Other genres that hit a similar demographic (off the top of my head, that includes sandbox games and Oblivion-style RPGs) do well with similar consistency.

 

[Starchasing]

Yes, that depends on how varied the requirements are, aren't they?

We've seen that things with a decidedly Western slant in aesthetics succeed admirably on the 360, even if they come from Japan (say hi, Capcom!), especially when backed by strong marketing. It's pretty much a sure thing that the hyped title-of-the-month almost always succeeds.

It doesnt matter how varied the requirements are. There is no formula to succes in any console. If it were so everyone would be making such games, and they arent.

Some games flop and some dont. Just how markets work. If there is no risk there is no profit.

Same thing happens with queues. There is no rational way to pick up the quickest queue because if it were so everyone would pick it making it the slower.

It's not, really. The X360 in the US is remarkably consistent in delivering sales to certain kinds of games. Shooters that score above 85 in review aggregates, for example, pretty consistently put up sales north of 300k. Other genres that hit a similar demographic (off the top of my head, that includes sandbox games and Oblivion-style RPGs) do well with similar consistency

But there are games like that that flop, there before there is no formula for success. Even your scenario of consistent returns is quite a grimm one... do you wanna play the same games again again and again?

 

[charlequin]

Before you write lenghty posts, why not first check solid data we have and then use it to form your opinion.

I have checked what we have readily available -- Euro software charts -- which make Nintendo's level of success pretty clear but paint a murky picture of everything else. Because there's no consistent source of more detailed figures (as there are with both the US and Japan) I can guess that there's no specific evidence to clarify things more, but can't be certain; some report with firm evidence of Euro software sales could've come out last week and I just missed it.

That's why I put in my disclaimer -- I'm reasonably confident in all my conclusions, but I'm open to considering evidence that refutes them. If there's evidence that points to PS3's Euro software performance being stronger than I said, by all means point me towards it and I'll look it over.

 

[Pureauthor]

It doesnt matter how varied the requirements are. There is no formula to succes in any console. If it were so everyone would be making such games, and they arent.

Some games flop and some dont. Just how markets work. If there is no risk there is no profit.

Same thing happens with queues. There is no rational way to pick up the quickest queue because if it were so everyone would pick it making it the slower.

Stop and look - look - at the successful games on the X360. All the biggest success games all bear remarkable similarities, and when you extend your view to look at other games that bear the similarities they are also successful even if not on the 'WHOA!' scale.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

For all of the "PS3 is selling really well in PAL + Other", even if you look at the numbers posted in this thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215534

The PS3 still trailed the 360 by something like 1.5 million units by the beginning of November, looking at the sales gap in UK, Australia, Germany, and Italy. And looking at the PAL charts, we don't even know numbers for Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, Belguim, etc, but we know that the PS3 isn't dominating there.

Considering the 360's userbase in PAL territories is roughly half of its 'good' sales in NA, I don't see how that suddenly equals a fuckmazing userbase for the PS3. PS3 sales in Europe are better relative to its sales in the US, but overall lower.

 

[charlequin]

It doesnt matter how varied the requirements are. There is no formula to succes in any console. If it were so everyone would be making such games, and they arent.

There are drastically varying levels of uncertainty, though. Some development houses have a pretty small variance on product quality, and can produce titles that review well with some consistency. On almost all platforms, AAA-budget titles will sell well, but more minor titles of high quality will put up very unpredictable performance. On the X360, high-quality titles (as judged by reviews, at least) that fall within certain genres tend to perform well with a pretty reliable consistency; that's what makes the system's software performance so notable.

Obviously it's not OMG magic 100% unquestionable certainty; it is, however, a much safer bet than many other options. I think we have yet to see anyone get burned on developing a shooter for X360 that reviewed well and had a lot of effort put into it but then underperformed in sales.

 

[sakuragi]

* In America, third-party support is essentially locked in; shooters, sandbox games, WRPGs, and other similarly "hardcore" genres do fuckawesome on X360, while casual games can, at least, sell like gangbusters on Wii. PS3 moves enough software that it's arguably leaving money on the table to do 360 exclusives; as with PS2/Xbox last gen, there's not much reason not to do either day-and-date or six-months-later ports of most Western-developed titles with an X360 lead SKU to PS3, though arguably in some cases the exclusivity will boost X360 platform sales enough to make up the lost PS3 sales. There's a strong indication against PS3 exclusives, however; nothing exclusive on the system has stuck effectively, even hyped 1st party titles.


* In Japan everything is a fucking mess. DS is the only platform that can be considered an unqualified success, hardware and software; third parties who make use of its strengths (Level 5, Square-Enix) are doing well. Every other platform is having software problems; 3rd party Wii software is (at least thus far) underperforming its hardware sales, PSP is a pit for anything that isn't an MGS/FF/KH level title, PS3 is performing poorly and X360 is a goddamn disaster. This leaves PS3 as the most viable HD platform, but obscures the fact that unlike America, Japan has demonstrated severe disinterest in HD gaming; inasmuch as Japanese developers are interested in pushing HD content (and they seem to be reasonably interested in it) PS3 is their best platform (except when they aim at American audiences, Capcom-style) but so far the economics simply don't support this strategy very well -- $10-20 million dollar titles selling <300k aren't a good investment.

* Europe is somewhere between at par between X360 and PS3 and a commanding PS3 lead, hardware-wise; its software sales seem to be even more slanted towards Nintendo than elsewhere in the world. As far as I can tell, there's no evidence on hand that PS3 is producing software sales that are either as actively excellent as X360's American software numbers, or as far ahead of X360's Euro sales as X360's American sales are ahead of PS3's American numbers (but please do correct me if there are unambiguous indicators that this is the case) -- it seems most likely that PS3 is putting up solid (but not necessarily remarkable) software sales, while X360 is somewhere in the range between solid and poor.

With that sort of worldwide picture, X360 comes out looking stronger in many cases: if you're an American developer, it's your unambiguous choice; if you're a Japanese developer (and you're making hardcore action games) your combined US+JPN sales are likely to be much higher on 360 than PS3; if you're a European developer, you might lean towards PS3, but it's unlikely to be the only obvious choice the way the 360 is in the US.

EDIT1: Because this generation sucks worse for third parties than the last one did; PS2 winning every territory and selling software well made decisions like this easy, while the current market is much less certain for anyone.

EDIT2: Holy fuck, that's a long post. :lol

WOW long post, you might try to summarize your post. Anyways, what I was implying is that the PS3 current sofware sales does not paint the picture of the painting but only a fraction of it. The reason we are seeing a huge difference in Software sales between the Xbox 360 and PS3 in the US is due to the fact that the PS3 is going up against a whole years worth of Xbox 360 userbase. However, when looking at the tie ratio of COD4 and Assassin's creed to its userbase, it isn't such a one way dominance since the PS3's userbase is still young and it has less than a year worth of userbase. Both of those games came before the PS3's first Christmas. I say the games starts now and the Xbox 360 sofware dominance isn't set to stone. Sure, the difference is software sales are huge now, but will it be after 2008 when the PS3 and its fantastic software rule 2008? I dont think so. Again, judging market trends in the year of the console launch is very premature, especially considering an average console life cycle of 4 to 5 years.

In Europe, third party software sell better on the PS3 than on the Xbox 360 other than the Uk. Some might think that the difference isn't huge enough to offset the difference between the Xbox 360 and PS3 sofware sales in the US. Sure now it isnt but Im sure they will most definitely come much closer soon. If you didn't notice, the PS3 is only 9 month into the European market while the Xbox 360 is 24 months in and had quite a long head start. The Fact that a nine month old console sells more software than a 24 month all console it incredible. And the PS3 does it at a higher price point.

The PS3 in Japan does well for next generation Japanese games as well. Dynasty warrior 6 and Gundam mousu all outsold their Xbox 360 counterparts by a large margin. I have no doubt that Devil may cry 4 and Resident Evil 5 will mimic their sales as well. Their sales along with the Euro sales will surely offset some of the difference in the US sales.

Like I said, the PS3 is young and is barely a years old. The difference in the PS3 and Xbox 360 software will surely decrease by time as the PS3 establish itself into more homes. Prematurely ejaculating to current trends isn't the most wises thing to do.

 

[Starchasing]

Stop and look - look - at the successful games on the X360. All the biggest success games all bear remarkable similarities, and when you extend your view to look at other games that bear the similarities they are also successful even if not on the 'WHOA!' scale.

I know and i agree but in the, companies are risk-averse, and they will probably end this way:

Designing primarly for Wii and DS, tryng to cover all demographics since it has cheap development costs. They wil mostly follo whatever Nintendo does. Like for examples Nintendogs and then dogz, catz horsez.

Design secondary for 360/pc/ps3, which need bigger budgets than ever which will lead them to make the same game as they have been doin recently.



EDIT

Sakuragi.... do you know a console named Wii ??? why do you leave it out all the times??? to make the ps3 look better? Sooner or later Wii will have an impact on ps3 third party games

 

[Thrakier]

PS3 sales in Europe are better relative to its sales in the US, but overall lower.

Not true. Maybe the 360 is still in front but they are one year early. PS3 will be 2nd place in europe.

 

[charlequin]

The reason we are seeing a huge difference in Software sales between the Xbox 360 and PS3 in the US is due to the fact that the PS3 is going up against a whole years worth of Xbox 360 userbase.

PS3 titles are underperforming X360 titles from a similar point in its life -- but regardless, reasons don't actually mitigate that software performance. PS3 will always be a year behind the X360; if it can't outperform it despite that, then it would seem that launching a whole year later was a mistake.

However, when looking at the tie ratio of COD4 and Assassin's creed to its userbase, it isn't such a one way dominance since the PS3's userbase is still young and it has less than a year worth of userbase.

See my post above re: tie ratio. (Summary: individual games have a far higher tie ratio early on than later in a console's life, so PS3's identical ratio now implies a significantly lower ratio when it hits the same point in install base X360 is at now.)

Sure, the difference is software sales are huge now, but will it be after 2008 when the PS3 and its fantastic software rule 2008?

With FFXIII as a 2009+ title and GTA4 set to put by far the lion's share of its sales on X360, I don't think the "PS3 >>> X360 in 2008 lineup" meme is really that solid.

Sure now it isnt but Im sure they will most definitely come much closer soon.

Er... doesn't this confirm my statement? I'm talking about right now, not what might hypothetically happen in the future.

The PS3 in Japan does well for next generation Japanese games well. Dynasty warrior 6 and Gundam mousu all outsold their Xbox 360 counterparts by a large margin.

Outselling their X360 versions is not impressive. X360 is failing nearly as bad as a console can fail in Japan (only nearly because it is actually outperforming the original Xbox....) The sales of software titles on both HD consoles in Japan is poor enough that currently no AAA game for either system can reasonably expect to recoup its budget in Japan alone; the market is currently rejecting HD gaming pretty much altogether, and therefore isn't significant enough for its sales to meaningfully affect the PS3/X360 contest.

Like I said, the PS3 is young and is barely a years old. The difference in the PS3 and Xbox 360 software will surely decrease by time as the PS3 establish itself into more homes.

Actually, this is pretty much the opposite of what is likely to happen, judging by historical trends. Almost all systems solidify both their hardware performance and what manner of software they sell effectively during their second year on the market; at the tail end of year one, we're seeing X360 software sales continue to explode, while PS3 hasn't shown specific signs of improved performance.

 

[Pug]

I'm not sure is this still the case today but I remember stats sheets showing that the games software market in the UK was bigger than both France and Germany combined. There's no doubts that the 360 is performing well in the UK and considering how much a PS stallwart the UK was this turn around was unexpected.

 

[Grecco]

Was there even a Gundam Musuo released for the Xbox in Japan?

 

[donny2112]

<long post on previous page>

*claps*

*standing ovation*

Was there even a Gundam Musuo released for the Xbox in Japan?

It just released last week for the 360 and sold 9.4K.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Was there even a Gundam Musuo released for the Xbox in Japan?

I think this was the title for it
Gundam Musou International

 

[Arkham]

Actually, Sony themselves said they'd sold (shipped) 5.6 million units as of November 16. Check the top of this page. (if you're on 100 posts per page)

They said it was in the lower range of 5M to 6M (just under/around 5.5M) back at (edit) TGS/Sept. (sold-through), so I don't see how that's accurate.

 

[sakuragi]

PS3 titles are underperforming X360 titles from a similar point in its life -- but regardless, reasons don't actually mitigate that software performance. PS3 will always be a year behind the X360; if it can't outperform it despite that, then it would seem that launching a whole year later was a mistake.

The Xbox 360 didnt have any competition and hence, any next generation third party games sold well on it. However, third party games that were also on the PS2 outsell their Xbox 360 counterparts. Also was it a mistake for Sony to rush to launch the PS3 like the Xbox 360 and sacrifice the quality of its hardware, like Microsoft? Loosing billion of dollars in the process and tarnishing its brand name by having a crappy hardware? I don't think so. By delaying the PS3, Sony sacrificed short term success to hopefully win in the long term. One of its sacrifice came to labor and Blu-ray, you know, the format Sony is banking on in currently dominating the HD format killed HD-DVD last week. Now that blu-ray has won, its priority is shifted to the console side and now Sony's game will begin

Actually, this is pretty much the opposite of what is likely to happen, judging by historical trends. Almost all systems solidify both their hardware performance and what manner of software they sell effectively during their second year on the market; at the tail end of year one, we're seeing X360 software sales continue to explode, while PS3 hasn't shown specific signs of improved performance.

This generation isnt like any other generation. "The first console to sell ten million wins" that what Microsoft thought based on past market trends and the wii walked all over it. This generation is unpredictable and is far from similar to any past generation. Oh and BTW, stop quoting different points since I get confused with the formating and such. Thanks.

 

[Sushen]

Gentlemen, it's quite simple that the fate of ps3 will be determined by 2 titles: MGS4 and GTA. If any exclusive (timed exclusive I suspect in this case) that can help ps3 like GOW (don't kid yourself by comparing it to Halo3; nothing will in a while), it's MGS4. Motor Storm, Warhawk, Heavenly Sword, Ratchet, and Uncharted all failed to boost break-through sales figure. MGS4 is the last hope in sight, maybe GT5. Another important milestone is GTA. If any title can single handedly change the 3rd party sales number balance (i.e. 360 sales vs ps3 sales), it's GTA. If they fail to, at least, tie the numbers, 3rd party will assign their main team on 360 version by default for a long time; just like they did with PS2.

For those who keep refering to numbers from JP and EU, what do I care if I'm buying my games only in the US mostly made by US devs? Genesis did great in the US while had been doing horrible in JP its home land back in the days.

 

[charlequin]

The Xbox 360 didnt have any competition and hence, any next generation third party games sold well on it.

Again, the reason for poor performance is not an excuse, just an explanation. The X360 built a userbase that buys software ravenously; it's possible PS3 could have had those same users had it launched earlier, but now it doesn't and it holds less potential for profitable US software sales as a result.

This generation isnt like any other generation.

"This generation is different from the past" (true, although the race between X360 and PS3 is by far the most like the past of any part of it) does not actually automatically imply "and so the PS3 will win." :lol

Another important milestone is GTA. If any title can single handedly change the 3rd party sales number balance (i.e. 360 sales vs ps3 sales), it's GTA. If they fail to, at least, tie the numbers, 3rd party will assign their main team on 360 version by default for a long time; just like they did with PS2.

If GTA actually makes a Q2 release date in 2008, there is no conceivable way the PS3 version could possibly put up numbers equal to the X360 version. (And I think at least as far as US developers are concerned, the "X360 = lead SKU" decision is already sealed.)

 

[spwolf]

And before you tell someone else to do it, the burden of proof lies upon you. You made a positive assertion that something exists (The data exists). charlequin made a negative assertion (We don't have the necessary data). The positive assertion bears the burden of proof, since the negative assertion can't point to nothingness and say 'there's your proof!'

no, he made his own conclusions based on... nothing. But conclusion he did make. So when you do so, you need to base it on something. He didnt.

We certainly have November software totals from UK, which tell you a lot about how and what sells in UK. You probably remember that data, dont you? :lol

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Not true. Maybe the 360 is still in front but they are one year early. PS3 will be 2nd place in europe.

When I say that PS3 sales are better relatively in Europe, I mean directly comparable to the 360.

It's still selling better overall numbers in North America, it will be close to 3.5 million by the end of the year.

 

[gofreak]

For all of the "PS3 is selling really well in PAL + Other", even if you look at the numbers posted in this thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215534

The PS3 still trailed the 360 by something like 1.5 million units by the beginning of November, looking at the sales gap in UK, Australia, Germany, and Italy.

Those are LTD sales, no? I think most people here are talking about ongoing sales. Obviously there's still a gap overall due to the 360's headstart. But week to week, month to month, I wouldn't be at all surprised if 360 was being outsold by PS3. Or, to put it in the timeframe I was discussing earlier, if PS3 outsold 360 in 2007.

And looking at the PAL charts, we don't even know numbers for Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, Belguim, etc, but we know that the PS3 isn't dominating there.

It doesn't cover all the territories you mention, but I just saw an article here in Ireland saying - funnily enough - that PS3 dominated 360 in terms of software sales over Christmas, whatever about hardware (it didn't say). Not too long ago the situation here was the complete opposite, much more like the UK. But according to this article, the top two games sold more on PS3 than 360, and only two games in the top 20 sold more on 360 than either one of PS2 or PS3. There's percentages and stuff if people are REALLY interested, but you get the general idea. Ireland is probably the "other" EU territory that's perhaps most like the UK, but maybe there'll be a divergence here.

(I also thought it was kind of humourous, because the Irish Xbox guy they quoted pulled the old GAF excuse about the numbers not covering all retailers )

 

[schuelma]

Thank God for charlequin..now poor Pureauthor can take a much deserved rest.

 

[spwolf]

I have checked what we have readily available -- Euro software charts -- which make Nintendo's level of success pretty clear but paint a murky picture of everything else. Because there's no consistent source of more detailed figures (as there are with both the US and Japan) I can guess that there's no specific evidence to clarify things more, but can't be certain; some report with firm evidence of Euro software sales could've come out last week and I just missed it.

That's why I put in my disclaimer -- I'm reasonably confident in all my conclusions, but I'm open to considering evidence that refutes them. If there's evidence that points to PS3's Euro software performance being stronger than I said, by all means point me towards it and I'll look it over.

But they dont. You checked "Top 40" charts. No actual software sales.

And based on what we actually have - software sales totals for UK for November 2007, your conclusion is absolutly wrong. You could easily say that based on that data, Nintendo software in Europe is doing worse than in rest of the world and PS3 software is doing a lot better than in the rest of the world.

So you can be "reasonably condifent" as much as you want, but based on actual data, it is opposite of what you "conclude".

Do some search and find out yourself.

 

[sakuragi]

Again, the reason for poor performance is not an excuse, just an explanation. The X360 built a userbase that buys software ravenously; it's possible PS3 could have had those same users had it launched earlier, but now it doesn't and it holds less potential for profitable US software sales as a result.




"This generation is different from the past" (true, although the race between X360 and PS3 is by far the most like the past of any part of it) does not actually automatically imply "and so the PS3 will win." :lol



If GTA actually makes a Q2 release date in 2008, there is no conceivable way the PS3 version could possibly put up numbers equal to the X360 version. (And I think at least as far as US developers are concerned, the "X360 = lead SKU" decision is already sealed.)

Uh, Guitar hero 3 sales on the PS2 outsold the Xbox 360's version and most of the third party games that are also on the PS2, sell better on the PS2 than the Xbox 360, Also in Europe like the Simpsons and so forth. The reason why I mention this is that most of the PS2's huge userbase has not decided on choosing which next gen console and adopted the "wait and see approach" untill the dust of the console launches are settled and the next gen consoles become cheaper. So again, and again, prematurely claiming that its all over is far from the reality and that the PS3 could win those people on the fence (120 miilion PS2 users) to jump in the next generation bandwagon. Now that it has won the war against the HD-DVD, I have no doubt that Sony will focus on the gaming industry and try to win those PS2 users. But rather than thinking rationally and looking at the long term, you fell for the same mistake Microsoft did and rushed to conclusion.

 

[WrikaWrek]

You know what actually sells really well in europe?

The wii.

Uh, Guitar hero 3 sales on the PS2 outsold the Xbox 360's version and most of the third party games that are also on the PS2, sell better on the PS2 than the Xbox 360, Also in Europe like the Simpsons and so forth. The reason why I mention this is that most of the PS2's huge userbase has not decided on choosing which next gen console and adopted the "wait and see approach" untill the dust of the console launches are settled and the next gen consoles become cheaper. So again, and again, prematurely claiming that its all over is far from the reality and that the PS3 could win those people on the fence (120 miilion PS2 users) to jump in the next generation bandwagon. Now that it has won the war against the HD-DVD, I have no doubt that Sony will focus on the gaming industry and try to win those PS2 users. But rather than thinking rationally and looking at the long term, you fell for the same mistake Microsoft did and rushed to conclusion.

Ps2 isn't selling that much software top ten wise from what i've been seeing. And look, Ps2 sold more than the PS3, you know, it's kinda sad when you think about it, because i remember a time when the Ps2 was selling better than the 360 and people made fun of it, saying Ken Kutaragi was right, that the 360 wasn't going to compete with the PS3 but with the PS2. I actually thought it was funny too.

But now i find it hilarious that the Ps3 is the one in that position. Now you might think that Ps2 casuals aren't jumping to the Wii, which i think it's wrong because the Wii is selling so crazy that well, the gamers have to come from somewhere, and new Ps2 owners mean shit for Publishers making games for the Ps3 today.

Because publishers don't care if in 2010 the Ps3 will finally see the transition from people that are today buying Ps2s, because well they want to release games today.

And that's why 360 is impressive, it's tracking better than the original at a higher price, it's selling amazing in software, it has shattered the original in that regards, it's bringing alot of money in, and that's great, that's what publishers want.

 

[charlequin]

We certainly have November software totals from UK

I haven't been able to dig this thread up, partially because I have no idea what the subject line is (and also because "uk" is too short to use as a search term.) Can you link it?

 

[GhaleonEB]

But they dont. You checked "Top 40" charts. No actual software sales.

And based on what we actually have - software sales totals for UK for November 2007, your conclusion is absolutly wrong. You could easily say that based on that data, Nintendo software in Europe is doing worse than in rest of the world and PS3 software is doing a lot better than in the rest of the world.

So you can be "reasonably condifent" as much as you want, but based on actual data, it is opposite of what you "conclude".

Do some search and find out yourself.

I must have missed something. Could you link to what you are referring to?

 

[herod]

Calling the future by basing likely trends on Sony's 2007 vs. Microsoft's 2006 or 2007 is unwise in my opinion, for a catalogue of reasons.

 

[schuelma]

I must have missed something. Could you link to what you are referring to?

I remember that thread, and I also remember wondering how the hell spwolf drew the conclusions he did.

But Europe sales threads always confuse me..maybe he's actually right. Dunno.

 

[squatingyeti]

The Xbox 360 didnt have any competition and hence, any next generation third party games sold well on it.

360 had competition with the PS2 AND the ghost of PS3 future convincing many to wait and see until PS3 launches.

However, third party games that were also on the PS2 outsell their Xbox 360 counterparts.

They also outsold their PS3 counterparts

Also was it a mistake for Sony to rush to launch the PS3 like the Xbox 360 and sacrifice the quality of its hardware, like Microsoft? Loosing billion of dollars in the process and tarnishing its brand name by having a crappy hardware? I don't think so.

No, they waited, not because they needed time on the hardware design, but because BD wasn't ready. By delaying, one could argue they lost bilions of dollars in potential customers. In fact, I'm sure if they would've launched day and date with 360 (even with a much higher price point) things would be much different today. Also, you must be unaware that the PS3 has already set about destroying all profits the PS2 brought in. So, they're loosing billions of dollars without the software sales to help recover, like MS, or being remotely close to profitability on the hardware, like MS. Who looks to be in a better postion?

One of its sacrifice came to labor and Blu-ray, you know, the format Sony is banking on in currently dominating the HD format killed HD-DVD last week. Now that blu-ray has won, its priority is shifted to the console side and now Sony's game will begin

I still think too many people are banking on this dramatic shift now that BD has buried HDDVD. I guess you have to dream.

This generation isnt like any other generation. "The first console to sell ten million wins" that what Microsoft thought based on past market trends and the wii walked all over it. This generation is unpredictable and is far from similar to any past generation. Oh and BTW, stop quoting different points since I get confused with the formating and such. Thanks.

Who do you think gains the most from this generation? If Sony does end up in second with ~58M consoles sold and MS ends up in third with ~50M consoles sold, who gained and who lost the most? That's not even taking into consideration the ridiculous software sales the 360 has maintained. Those are going to be ongoing, Sony is just looking to get close to that. Once again, who gains the most?

 

[spwolf]

I haven't been able to dig this thread up, partially because I have no idea what the subject line is (and also because "uk" is too short to use as a search term.) Can you link it?

Sure.. I love doing other people's work. Now, keep in mind what hardware totals are for UK.
http://www.mcvuk.com/interviews/167/Monthly-Chart-Analysis-November

FULL PRICE FORMAT SHARE (units)

23.1% - Xbox 360
16.2% - DS
15.3% - PS2
14.2% - Wii
13.9% - PS3
12.8% - PC
4.3% - PSP
0.1% - Mac

FULL PRICE FORMAT SHARE (value)

26.2% - Xbox 360
15.5% - PS3
14.7% - Wii
13.7% - PC
12.9% - DS
12.7% - PS2
3.6% - PSP
0.2% - Mac

 

[Shiggy]

Sure.. I love doing other people's work. Now, keep in mind what hardware totals are for UK.
http://www.mcvuk.com/interviews/167/Monthly-Chart-Analysis-November

It would be more accurate if that wasn't only full price software...

 

[schuelma]

Sure.. I love doing other people's work. Now, keep in mind what hardware totals are for UK.
http://www.mcvuk.com/interviews/167/Monthly-Chart-Analysis-November

Look, I don't claim to be a statistical genius so I tend to defer to the analysis given in the article..and the article specifically says that the most impressive performer was the Wii. Nothing is mentioned about the PS3.

 

[charlequin]

The reason why I mention this is that most of the PS2's huge userbase has not decided on choosing which next gen console and adopted the "wait and see approach" untill the dust of the console launches are settled and the next gen consoles become cheaper.

What determines where those people will go is a combination of something like back catalog plus expected upcoming releases plus price plus networking effects (i.e. if all your friends have console X, it's more desirable for you to buy the same one.) In the US right now, all of those factors are decidedly in favor of new buyers converting to Wii and 360. The undecided types are a blank slate; it's what's going on with today's purchasers that will determine their actions.

If Europe really does have actively strong PS3 software sales, that would be an indication that in Europe those factors tilt differently, and that PS3's advantage there might cancel out X360's US advantage... but that's a big maybe.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Calling the future by basing likely trends on Sony's 2007 vs. Microsoft's 2006 or 2007 is unwise in my opinion, for a catalogue of reasons.

People do it because this industry works on trends, the one selling the most keeps selling the most and the one selling the worst will keep selling the worst. That's how this industry has worked.

The console that is selling the worst never suddenly becomes a huge success halfway through and starts selling the best.

That's why people call the future based on the past.

 

[Pug]

What ever way you look at it MS has done really well, in the biggest market in Europe.

 

[schuelma]

It would be more accurate if that wasn't only full price software...

Exactly- look at the budget software share. PS3 nowhere to be found, Wii by far the highest. Considering how much Wii software is cheaper than PSS3/360, to ignore Wii's budget price share seems disengenuous.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Sure.. I love doing other people's work. Now, keep in mind what hardware totals are for UK.
http://www.mcvuk.com/interviews/167/Monthly-Chart-Analysis-November

It's just good form to cite sources when making claims based on them. Chill out. And thanks for the link, I had missed that information.

How do those numbers compare to the similar split in the US? You had said they were much better, so I must have missed the US figures.

It would be more accurate if that wasn't only full price software...

That too.

 

[Starchasing]

Can any one of those saying that the Ps3 is doing great explain why have they revealed this information before NPD?

My guess is that bot MS and Nintendo have way even better numbers

 

[Pug]

Wii software maybe cheaper but its not budget and would have counted in that data. Further many PS3 tittles are £44.99 and most 360 are £39.99

 

[schuelma]

Wii software maybe cheaper but its not budget and would have counted in that data. Further many PS3 tittles are £44.99 and most 360 are £39.99

Whether you think its a good thing or a bad thing, Wii's #1 software seller in U.K throughout the year is definitely budget.

 

[charlequin]

Sure.. I love doing other people's work.

Cut it out with the attitude. You're the one claiming an extraordinary position; the least you could do is be vaguely polite when I say "hey, I'll reconsider my position if you can show me what evidence I've missed!"

Now, keep in mind what hardware totals are for UK.
http://www.mcvuk.com/interviews/167/Monthly-Chart-Analysis-November

Er... the only platform-specific figures in that link show the 360 as selling around 140% as many units of software as the PS3 in November. I'm not clear on how that supports the "PS3 has very strong software sales in Europe" claim.

 

[spwolf]

It's just good form to cite sources when making claims based on them. Chill out. And thanks for the link, I had missed that information.

How do those numbers compare to the similar split in the US? You had said they were much better, so I must have missed the US figures.

That too.

I have no clue about Wii - but 360 is doing about the same software wise (really good), BUT PS3 is doing a lot better in UK than in USA attach rate wise.

Now, consider that Wii overtook 360 in the UK in November hardware wise. And now check Wii software sales. Can someone make claim that Wii software sales are dominating Europe?

 

[BruceWayneIII]

...And looking at the PAL charts, we don't even know numbers for Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, Belguim, etc, but we know that the PS3 isn't dominating there.

Here's the three 'latest-gen' market shares in Denmark according to numbers from the Danish Consumer Electronics Magazine (appoximately end of November 2007). I don't remember how they arrived at those numbers:

Nintendo Wii: 15 percent
Sony Playstation 3: 70 percent
Microsoft XBox 360: 15 percent

Denmark is Sony land

 

[schuelma]

I have no clue about Wii - but 360 is doing about the same software wise (really good), BUT PS3 is doing a lot better in UK than in USA attach rate wise.

Now, consider that Wii overtook 360 in the UK in November hardware wise. And now check Wii software sales. Can someone make claim that Wii software sales are dominating Europe?

Tell me why you are ignoring the budget share chart right below which sees DS and Wii among others doing much much better than 360 or PS3?