I don't think he meant it needed to be designed to compete with Sony/MS offerings, just that it definitely needs to have some design influence from outside Nintendo. Fine if they want to go after some other gimmick, but at least have a competent base design by folks who've actually been through the motions already.
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Secret Developers, The Wii U story - Digital Foundry Series
- Thread starter hesido
- Start date
I don't think he meant it needed to be designed to compete with Sony/MS offerings, just that it definitely needs to have some design influence from outside Nintendo. Fine if they want to go after some other gimmick, but at least have a competent base design by folks who've actually been through the motions already.
I would guess it's people who are actually interested in releasing (announced or indie) vs. people who are just speculative. Besides the obvious incentive on Nintendo's side of who to prioritize, the first group would do two-way communication, whereas you probably don't even hear back from the second group.
Plus there's always the question of the kind of questions being asked. Anyone who has ever supported developers knows that something has probably already gone horribly wrong (on the developer side) when they start getting "when I flip bit 5 on argument 3 in mode y, why does this happen?" questions, which is probably what the big boys like to send over.
HiredN00bs
Member
I've personally noticed more input latency playing the Wii U gamepad than using the Vita in ideal conditions. I don't know if it's because I'm playing Virtual Console or what, but I can definitely feel a delay between button and actions on the Gamepad screen, and it has made playing The Legend of Zelda more difficult.
Also, the functionality is what warrants the trade-off in most people's experiences. I'm alright with some compression and input latency now and again if it means I can access my PS4 from anywhere with WiFi access or a cellular data signal.
We all know the pros and cons of each setup, and I'm telling you that even in less than ideal conditions, the Vita has the potential to minimize its drawbacks to be unnoticeable and the Wii U has nothing to mitigate its drawbacks (shitty display, noticeable latency, shitty range).
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Possibly; I had mentally assumed the writer of the article was British due to idioms used (like "mum") and who DF are and where they are placed, which is why I was curious as to which developer it was, because Sumo were acclaimed as a launch title, but also sold well, and Criterion were acclaimed and didn't sell well, but were not a launch title.
ab.aeterno
Member
It's generally unwise to throw stones whilst living in a glass house.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I would guess the dev is from Straight Right, who worked on Mass Effect 3's port.
This is 2014, and this is from a mega corporation. This should not be happening. There is no excuse for this amateurish way of working. But then again I remember from a long time ago forum posts from devs talking about getting similar problems with early n64/gamecube devellopement, and even with sony for the psx.
..but this was back in 1995
But he goes on about management waiting on sales, straight right wouldnt care as much since contracted/outsourced?
OG_Original Gamer
Member
I wonder if any dev before launch used more than one core, even after launch. The only thing that really bothers me besides the obvious about the article in the OP, is the developer fails to mention the eDRAM, no mention in the diferrences in CPU cores L2 Cache.
Straight Right/ Tantalus also developed Wii U games after the system launched and is still working on Wii U games.
But they worked also on Deus Ex port, no? The article clearly states they worked on just one game.
I think it's pretty clear that this is a Criterion source (you could even pinpoint exactly WHO without that much effort) if you know what the guy discusses in his article and what the various games released presented.
except its a launch title. criterion on record talk about starting post launch, with proper documentation/sdk.
Criterion didn't make a launch game.
But NFS was not a launch game. Plus, do you think Nintendo went into Criterion's office? (or Sumo's)
And this can't be about EA, as they had more than 1 game produced for launch.
RE-starting.
"we eventually shipped our game"
it never says the game was actually released on launch day.
A technical director-type person surely does get to be part of big console reveal meetings at the publisher HQ.
Saint Gregory
Member
Wasn't there a rumor (Shocking Alberto?) that NFS was ready at launch but EA deliberately delayed it? Criterion denied it later but it could fit.
Yeah, I remember that rumor. Sounds like the online wasn't ready anyway.
Ricerocket
Member
Really? After CELL and Xenon, you actually have to question if a console dev would only know how to code their games on 1 core (@1.24ghz) from a PPC CPU?
eDRAM isn't new and he does mention that bandwidth isn't an issue thanks to it.
Its pretty funny how everyone is guessing the developer. I'm going to guess Tantalaus and Funky Barn!
Okay, seriously, I think Aquamarine is on the right track and its 2K and NBA2K13.
Except it doesn't fit, at all.
edit: scroll down for some backpedaling on my part.
The article talk about a single game produced for Wii U. EA released more than 1. If this was from Criterion, it would have been formulated as "the game", not "a game".
And is Criterion even using Visual Studio for development?
Why?
They use Visual Studio, they had troubles with the network in NBA 2k13 way after the launch, they produced a good port that sold poorly.
How did Gaf strike 2K off the list?
Retro, Monster Studios, and Next Level Games don't count? (okay, Next Level is Canadian....)
fredrancour
Member
I don't think they have any ownership stake in monster or nlg.
And they aren't currently using retro to diversify their games lineup or gather information on how western studios operate or provide support to third parties or any other thing that could be unique to a north american team anyway.
They don't in monster and next level games, but both companies work exclusively with nintendo and neither see fit in changing the relationship.
He talks about Mii support. NFSMWU is the only game I know of from third parties that uses Miis. NBA2k13 doesn't have any visual extras that I know of.
NFSMWU famously uses PC textures.
No clue about Visual Studio.
Another key thing is the author uses the exact phrase "CPU punches above its weight" that the Technical Director at Criterion used in their behind the scenes preview already, going through almost all these exact same issues already.
I wonder what they try next. I think, since they just must be quirky, Nintendo really should put out mobile tech as their next console. With juice from the socket, a fan to cool it, and using 28 nm tech, you should be able to outperform Wii U on the cheap (maybe not as cheap), but then you have the benefit of easy porting from mobile devices which third parties are going to support more and more. If they go with a traditional console, third parties will stay away.
At least for NLG it's also that nobody really wants to work with them. Have you seen some of their pitches from the last few years? Was any third party publisher really interested in them? In the end, they were signed for some really low budget titles that turned out shit. Without a tight lash from NCL the studio is not more than a C or D team. That's why it's probably best for them to stay close to Nintendo and play along their rules.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Are we really combing through each word of the article with a fine comb to find clues that might reveal the identity of the source? ...
Like... for real?
Like... for real?
The quote is this:
He might refer here to Mii as users. It doesn't imply they used the Mii in the game.
anonymous developer said:
Criterion said:
I don't know, the Criterion guys always sound passionate about their work and willing to try to overcome the challenges, while the guy in this article sound very blasé. Plus:
NFS article said:
This part is totally missing in the current article.
what a amazing article, very well writen and one of the very few op story links i click on
I so badly want Nintendo to succeed but this outright blatant disregard of documentation, tool system assist and support is really a bad look for them from a third party publisher, developers and public point of view.
The WII U got it wrong when they first announced the console, people still dont know if its a wii addon, new console or its even available to be purchased the marketing has been terrible.
I so badly want Nintendo to succeed but this outright blatant disregard of documentation, tool system assist and support is really a bad look for them from a third party publisher, developers and public point of view.
The WII U got it wrong when they first announced the console, people still dont know if its a wii addon, new console or its even available to be purchased the marketing has been terrible.
R_thanatos
Member
I just hope that is an isolated incident ..because otherwise i cannot begin to imagine the pain to devellop on this console otherwise.
Never underestimate GAf investigators...
So many things were under covered that way.
Some of this definitely sounds familiar when the company I worked for worked on the Wii. That was a couple years ago, though and I figured it was an isolated incident with my previous employer. Maybe not.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Yeah.. So?
Unknown Soldier
Member
It's why CBOAT posts in gibberish, to prevent this sort of combing.
I'm starting to warm up to the 2k/Visual Concepts theory a bit. There are strong cases to be made for both it and Criterion. Both have points where it fits better and then again not so much.
It's fun. It's like real-life Ace Attorney!
PRESS START
It's fun. It's like real-life Ace Attorney!
PRESS START
It could go either way. And we don't know if the Anonymous Developer is intentionally fudging up details to make it harder to source back.
Of course Eurogamer would have to be okay with that...
Yeap. It's a forum, speculation and debate are part of it.
Final truth revealed: Reggie wrote it himself because Iwata keeps blocking his parking spot with his Yoshi Helicopter since he took the reigns of NoA.
prag16
Banned
I'm 90% in the 2K camp at this point. Sumo and Criterion have some elements to fit, but 2K definitely seems to make the most sense.
As for the vita/remote play issue, we probably have some confirmation bias in play from both sides.
Both have strengths and weaknesses in comparison to each other. I'll leave it at that.
fredrancour
Member
Looking at how the 3ds sells, and how the wiiu at least made a splash at christmas time.... probably not nearly as much, if at all.
freezamite
Banned
You may find it perfect, but those limitations are there and even DF had to admit that (the ones that were saying that Trine 2 was inferior on Wii U until the developers said it was superior, and then changed the whole review due to that).
Besides DF, there has been more sites stating that 30 FPS limit or the higher latencies, so while it's not a big deal to you, it surely seems a big deal to me.
As I'm not here to defend or bash a concrete company I admitted from the beginning that I still haven't tried personally how it works, but if there's a page that I have no doubts never will lie in favour to Nintendo that is precisely DF.