Psycho Echidna
Member
My man !
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Sega Forever: The nostalgia trip that could change the company's future
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
My man !
polyh3dron
Banned
Corrected that for you ;-)
They've definitely started off on the wrong foot the performance issues on the emulated games and Sonic 1's issues with restoring purchases, but they've been pretty good with sorting stuff like that out - Sonic CD had the same free issues, and they fixed it within days.
The emulation is a bigger problem, but if they're going to keep this going they're gonna have to sort that stuff out.The Unity wrapper shouldn't be the problem - if anything, the Unity wrapper is so that they DON'T have the same issues as the early 2010's mobile versions which just couldn't be updated anymore. Unity's framework makes that a far easier thing to manage.
The emulation is a bigger problem, but if they're going to keep this going they're gonna have to sort that stuff out.The Unity wrapper shouldn't be the problem - if anything, the Unity wrapper is so that they DON'T have the same issues as the early 2010's mobile versions which just couldn't be updated anymore. Unity's framework makes that a far easier thing to manage.
Fantastic idea!
I already downloaded on my Oneplus 3T all the games available.
I loved Altered Beast and Comix Zone, and they play fine even with touch controls... pad would be best, but still for just a hit&go play it's so good to have them for free! (and I see there is pad support so it is just a matter to buy one)
Curious to try Phantasy Star 2, I don't actually know what to expect... lol
They play without problems on my device.
I already downloaded on my Oneplus 3T all the games available.
I loved Altered Beast and Comix Zone, and they play fine even with touch controls... pad would be best, but still for just a hit&go play it's so good to have them for free! (and I see there is pad support so it is just a matter to buy one)
Curious to try Phantasy Star 2, I don't actually know what to expect... lol
They play without problems on my device.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
They better fix the "restore purchase" option on Sonic 1 or I will be pissed. Even if it works later, I think they fucked up a really good app with extra load time and choppier menus.
Between this update and the impending iOS11 not playing 32-bit titles, I feel like my iOS game collection is getting nuked by updates
I hate it.
Between this update and the impending iOS11 not playing 32-bit titles, I feel like my iOS game collection is getting nuked by updates
I hate it.Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
I support this initiative (and it's chance to end up on Switch) and think it's a good idea.
I can't personally get down with it, but I hope it does well.
I can't personally get down with it, but I hope it does well.
Toadthemushroom
Member
I'm almost envious of people who had an iPhone 5 from 2012 - that's not going to get iOS 11, so people still hanging onto theirs will probably upgrade this year to a new phone, leaving their old phone "stuck in time" with old games etc on it.
If you're on a new iPhone it makes little sense not to keep upgrading considering how iOS upgrades scale down to older hardware very well as the older hardware gets more capable (the iPhone 5s is still a very speedy phone today), and it's the only way to keep receiving security updates that patch vulnerabilities in the OS.
If you're on a new iPhone it makes little sense not to keep upgrading considering how iOS upgrades scale down to older hardware very well as the older hardware gets more capable (the iPhone 5s is still a very speedy phone today), and it's the only way to keep receiving security updates that patch vulnerabilities in the OS.
Ghost_Messiah
Member
Crying shame this. The marketing campaign was excellent echoing the confident awesomeness of nineties era Sega but they've completely fucked up the debut of this. First impressions are everything so I'm worried the service might be doomed now. Sega really should have cut a deal with the Retroarch guys and got a decent emulator. It's like they poured all their budget in to marketing and totally cheaped out on the actual production. Maybe a quick fix to rectify this shit is on the way? Not holding my breath.
Also agree with all of you that this should have been a "Sega Forever" app. That would have been far more attractive and much more tempting. That shit is something I'd rush to download, not individual poorly emulated ports that can't hold a stable frame rate.
Fix your shit Sega, and fix it quick.
Also agree with all of you that this should have been a "Sega Forever" app. That would have been far more attractive and much more tempting. That shit is something I'd rush to download, not individual poorly emulated ports that can't hold a stable frame rate.
Fix your shit Sega, and fix it quick.
Spaced Harrier
Member
its not a single app?
wtf?
wtf?
Well, they said that these games will have native Android TV and Apple TV apps in the future, so it will probably work on Shield.
gunstarhero
Member
Immediately grabbed Phantasy Star 2 (paid) without blinking. It's one of my favorite games as a kid and even though I generally don't play phone games, the idea of replaying this classic on the go was too tempting.
Then I booted it up and heard the audio. >_<
God damnit Sega. Why do you make it so hard to love you.
Then I booted it up and heard the audio. >_<
God damnit Sega. Why do you make it so hard to love you.
nkarafo
Member
Your phone is fine. You could run all of these games on a free emulator at smooth 60fps, even if you had a Galaxy S2.
It's just shitty software/emulation. These companies act like there are no standards in the industry or like emulation never existed at all.
Klappdrachen
Member
Forgive my ignorance, but was Phantasy Star II available on Android/iOS before this SEGA Forever version launched? If yes, did it run better than this one?
sixteen-bit
Member
I just want that promo cassette.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Getting video ads in between zones in Sonic 1 is some Bad Future shit.
Vorg
Banned
They tried but the retroarch guys wanted to have retroarch branding in the games, which is an insane request for something like this, tbqh. Of course if you're hired to do a service for some other company, it's going to have that company's branding and not yours. And it's sure as shit not going to have any retroarch branding anywhere. Not on something like this. Why would Sega want to boycott themselves like that? Not sure what they were thinking there.
Of course, they got pissed and tweeted this,which shows how professional they are. Stay classy, retroarch guys.
What I want is a 'sega tv' app on my PS4, select channels ( systems ) and then play emu games of all their old hits. I'd pay money for a channel or have adverts , you know cos it's 'tv' .
Megadrive,
Megacd,
Saturn,
Dreamcast,
Maybe master system/ game gear.
Model 2/3 arcade and all other arcades ever. Would die for the last one.
Also Same as above from Capcom please.
Megadrive,
Megacd,
Saturn,
Dreamcast,
Maybe master system/ game gear.
Model 2/3 arcade and all other arcades ever. Would die for the last one.
Also Same as above from Capcom please.
IronicSonic
Member
I'm surprised it's not this way. But seeing the quality of emulation, It's hard to think Sega has more than two developers in this project lol
Then why do games flash like 50 logos before they start? Developer, publisher, actual developer, havok, etc. (I guess it was worse during the PS2 era)
Either way, I'd rather have some emulator branding added than a bad experience gameplay-wise.
Donwloaded Kid Chameleon just to see how ot was.
Holy fuck does this shit run badly, I believe it's sub 30fps and the music crackles continuously.
How in the world can you release something that can't hold 30fps on an iPhone 7 but ran perfectly on a Mega fucking Drive?
Does Sega think people are so stupid they won't notice?
Holy fuck does this shit run badly, I believe it's sub 30fps and the music crackles continuously.
How in the world can you release something that can't hold 30fps on an iPhone 7 but ran perfectly on a Mega fucking Drive?
Does Sega think people are so stupid they won't notice?
Radius4
Member
I will start by reposting this:
Disclosure: 100% biased against GoGame. I'm a contributor to libretro / RetroArch. I'm not the main dev behind RetroArch.
A few months back we were approached by some guy from GoGame. We were asked about how RetroArch works, and the guy showed a lot of interest on our Netplay implementation. The protocol had just been revamped and casually at the same time I was working with another contributor on a system to make the whole experience more streamlined.
Something like this although the current product is much better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_NbtDmfduo
I wasn't directly involved with the conversations but I was part of the demo product. We were given some assets and some rational and some not so rational goals. The demo had a custom menu, pretty much identical to what you see in the finished product, I think 4 games and an open source emulator. They didn't want to use an open source emulator and they said they had their own that would need to be ported in case they went for our solution.
We are not really hunting for buyers or anything but Daniel (the project leader) has always been interested on finding a 100% legit use for RetroArch / libretro, so it was enticing (and exciting). Also using their own licensed emulator would have saved us a lot of trouble, one of our Genesis cores is GPL, the other one is under a propietary not for commercial use license. Other people may not care about this but we do.
We devoted a few weeks into this, the requirements did get more complicated (rollback based netplay on 4g on a GDC floor, NAT traversal), and well... we delivered. We don't know how did it work on the demo floor, or what happened though. They went completely silent and we were left with a sour taste on the whole deal.
I think we got a reply a few weeks back when they announced the service and we replied on several venues explaining this whole fiasco but I don't think any of us replied.
I guess we were a bit naive, we should have signed a contract or at least got a paycheck out of it and we should have realized we were being "shopped", we were being compared to other solutions and I guess we were deemed inferior.
Our platform (libretro) and our frontend (RetroArch) is by no means perfect. But it can play Comix Zone, Sonic, Phantasy Star II and more with great sound, great performance and lots of enhancements under a wide variety of platforms. I'm biased of course but really, companies can do a lot more damage to their own IP than passionate open source developers / fans can do.
(Look at megaman android ports for another example)
Disclosure: 100% biased against GoGame. I'm a contributor to libretro / RetroArch. I'm not the main dev behind RetroArch.
A few months back we were approached by some guy from GoGame. We were asked about how RetroArch works, and the guy showed a lot of interest on our Netplay implementation. The protocol had just been revamped and casually at the same time I was working with another contributor on a system to make the whole experience more streamlined.
Something like this although the current product is much better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_NbtDmfduo
I wasn't directly involved with the conversations but I was part of the demo product. We were given some assets and some rational and some not so rational goals. The demo had a custom menu, pretty much identical to what you see in the finished product, I think 4 games and an open source emulator. They didn't want to use an open source emulator and they said they had their own that would need to be ported in case they went for our solution.
We are not really hunting for buyers or anything but Daniel (the project leader) has always been interested on finding a 100% legit use for RetroArch / libretro, so it was enticing (and exciting). Also using their own licensed emulator would have saved us a lot of trouble, one of our Genesis cores is GPL, the other one is under a propietary not for commercial use license. Other people may not care about this but we do.
We devoted a few weeks into this, the requirements did get more complicated (rollback based netplay on 4g on a GDC floor, NAT traversal), and well... we delivered. We don't know how did it work on the demo floor, or what happened though. They went completely silent and we were left with a sour taste on the whole deal.
I think we got a reply a few weeks back when they announced the service and we replied on several venues explaining this whole fiasco but I don't think any of us replied.
I guess we were a bit naive, we should have signed a contract or at least got a paycheck out of it and we should have realized we were being "shopped", we were being compared to other solutions and I guess we were deemed inferior.
Our platform (libretro) and our frontend (RetroArch) is by no means perfect. But it can play Comix Zone, Sonic, Phantasy Star II and more with great sound, great performance and lots of enhancements under a wide variety of platforms. I'm biased of course but really, companies can do a lot more damage to their own IP than passionate open source developers / fans can do.
(Look at megaman android ports for another example)
Radius4
Member
Where are you getting that from?
1. We were not hired, we weren't being paid for. We were working on good faith thinking something good may come of it.
GoGame / Sega are free to use anything in the end, it's their IP, if they want to drag it through mud it's their problem not ours. But when someone does some work for someone, the very least you can expect is a reply.
Going dark is unprofessional, disrespectful and flat out annoying.
2. We didn't want logos in the games, a small libretro logo in a splash would have been enough and we weren't all that demanding either, actually it wasn't a deal breaker at all.
A powered by libretro mention in credits or anything wouldn't be outlandish.
Haven't you seen the intros of every single game out there? mentions of bink, havok and whatever other framework in use?
3. GPL.
Look people, and even publishers (and this might be even bad for us)
YOU CAN USE GPL SOFTWARE AS IS.
Regarding RetroArch in particular, they could have built RA with no menu and made their "fancy" menus in unity or java or whaver and used them as launchers for a native activity. The only thing they would have required to do is to link to our github repo.
The only showstopper would have been GPGX because it's non-commercial.
But we weren't going to use that anyhow! we were going to port their own commercially licensed emulator (DGen or something)
Fox Mulder
Member
Sega doesn't really care. This is a cover all bases move. They've been licensing out their stuff and name for shitty plug and play systems for years and will now drop dozens of ad riddled free games on the store.
I'm just baffled at how this isn't one app platform.
Ghost_Messiah
Member
Thanks for the insight dude. Enlightening information! Seems like there's more to the story than I thought. Definitely interesting info.
EDIT: Looks like you've been somewhat countered/corrected above!
Thanks for taking the time to chime in here. Sounds like you were fucked around by Sega honestly, and the fault is theirs. Though RetroArch may not be perfect, I'm betting it's a damn sight better than the solution they ultimately chose which is leading to this project collapsing at launch. They absolutely, almost certainly, should have chosen RetroArch as their emulation solution and this disaster of a launch a hundred percent wouldn't be happening now.
Sad to hear you guys got fucked around with. IMO RetroArch is an amazing project and emulator. Thanks for the insight and good luck with all your future endeavours.
This should be made a new thread.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...sic-games-on-mobile-for-free-but-at-what-cost
Fuck Sega, or GoGame or whoever is behind this.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...sic-games-on-mobile-for-free-but-at-what-cost
Fuck Sega, or GoGame or whoever is behind this.
FaintDeftone
Junior Member
I decided to download Kid Chameleon since it's one of my favorite platformers ever. It runs like ass on my iPhone 6S Plus. The controls are laggy too. Bummer.
StereoVsn
Member
Yeap, I bought a few years back and it ran just fine. It can run on a watch or a toaster. Now, the "new and improved" version has advertisements, always online, shitty performance and sound AND the old purchase won't restore. It's really great /s.
Vorg
Banned
Thanks for clearing that up. That tweet though. But I'm willing to guess that was all squarepusher as usual.
Diablohead
Member
Wait, did they really mess up the already amazing sonic 1 remaster with a new version forced to go through forever sega stuff? w...why...
*edit* installed it and launched it, what the fudge SEGA, not cool man.
Playing it with ads you get some full screen and smaller ads on the main menus plus you get one after each act it seems, what a killer.
You can still buy Sonic 1 on the amazon app store, check to see if you have any app credit sometimes you get some from buying other things, that's where I own my copy.
Sonic 1 is the taxman remake so it's a different beast compared to the emulated roms, however whatever sega have done to this version now adds in padding not really required just so people can play it for free with ads.
Not worth updating your copy of sonic 1 if it can be helped, no benefit.
Years ago sega were going to do this strangely enough, there was going to be a hub app on IOS that users could buy games inside and play them, similar to the current steam emulator stuff.
Sega dropped it months after announcing it because they seem to hate good ideas.
*edit* installed it and launched it, what the fudge SEGA, not cool man.
Playing it with ads you get some full screen and smaller ads on the main menus plus you get one after each act it seems, what a killer.
You can still buy Sonic 1 on the amazon app store, check to see if you have any app credit sometimes you get some from buying other things, that's where I own my copy.
Sonic 1 is the taxman remake so it's a different beast compared to the emulated roms, however whatever sega have done to this version now adds in padding not really required just so people can play it for free with ads.
Not worth updating your copy of sonic 1 if it can be helped, no benefit.
Years ago sega were going to do this strangely enough, there was going to be a hub app on IOS that users could buy games inside and play them, similar to the current steam emulator stuff.
Sega dropped it months after announcing it because they seem to hate good ideas.
MrCunningham
Member
Oh I know that. I do have a copy of Retroarch installed on my phone along with a small library of games, including PS1 titles. My phone runs just about anything on Retroarch fine, aside from maybe a few N64 games.
I just downloaded Comix Zone, and it is unplayable on my phone. I get that there is extra overhead here from the Unity engine, but still..
James Scott
Banned
While I had only played Sonic 1 for awhile last time I posted, downloaded the rest and yeah, emulation isn't good. Weird slow down every few seconds.
Sonic works well since it's just 1 button, I believe all 3 are required for the others.
Comix Zone is still conceptually cool. Combat feels cool enough. Only one life and the slow down makes it not particularly fun
Sonic works well since it's just 1 button, I believe all 3 are required for the others.
Comix Zone is still conceptually cool. Combat feels cool enough. Only one life and the slow down makes it not particularly fun
Ghost_Messiah
Member
I think it was GoGame more than Sega, I don't think we ever talked to a real Sega employee.
Thanks for hightlighting that part I was gonna make it bold
We appreciate your presence in this thread. It's enlightening and great to have you here!
.
Regarding Sonic 1, seriously WTF? The paid version is one of the best ports of all-time (all praise our lord and saviour Taxman) so they've literally re-modeled the game to have video ads in between the acts? Christ that's the worst possible idea in the universe.
As I've stated on Sonic Retro, Sega evidently threw masses of money in to a slick marketing campaign and cheaped out on the actual production and execution, such as securing a decent emulation solution like RetroArch.
Hope Sega see the negative press shit storm and reboot this, because as a concept it's still fantastic.
MrCunningham
Member
In my opinion the free-to-play ad supported versions of these games are perfectly fine. I have no problem with this at all, given that you can just purchase them for a small fee and remove the ads. I think it is a good business model.
However, for anyone that owned any of these games previously before the update, these versions replace them. Which is what I really have a problem with. People who purchased Sonic 1 before the updates are having issues restoring their original purchases within the game.
Also, the Genesis/ Mega Drive emulated games (Kid Chameleon, Phantasy Star II, Comix Zone,etc...) that people may have previously owned were been replaced with these versions, which run infinity worse on the same hardware thanks to the new Unity/ jEnesis backend.
All the apps just got updated.
Sonic 1's restore purchase has been fixed.
Every other app has fixed the issue with save files for people who paid not being able to use the saves while offline.
Performance is still an issue but if they're updating this quickly, I'm pretty sure they're aware of the problem and are looking into it.
Sonic 1's restore purchase has been fixed.
Every other app has fixed the issue with save files for people who paid not being able to use the saves while offline.
Performance is still an issue but if they're updating this quickly, I'm pretty sure they're aware of the problem and are looking into it.
gunstarhero
Member
Fucking Sega.
Had 2 save files in PS2, with 5 hours logged into Save 2. Booted it up today to continue and only Save 1 is there (which had 20 minutes played lol).
I'm out.
Had 2 save files in PS2, with 5 hours logged into Save 2. Booted it up today to continue and only Save 1 is there (which had 20 minutes played lol).
I'm out.
Ben Morales
Member
Yikes... Where is M2 when you need them!?
.:Wesker:.
Member
Only downloaded Comix Zone and was immediately disgusted by the music and framerate lurching around wildly. Go home Sega Forever you're drunk. Reminds of me of DotEmu's work, surprised they aren't involved.
gingerbeardman
Member
Why are these a 120MB download for a 2MB game?
What a fucking waste of space.
What a fucking waste of space.
gingerbeardman
Member
They want ad revenue and to cross sell new releases
Tizoc
Member
Very likely because of Unity: Namco released some of their classic 80s arcade games and each one is around 800 MB IIRC.
800 MB for a game that at most would be 8 MB.
Yeah I really feel this performance is unacceptable, even for free games. I'll be back when/if they update.