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[Shahadan]

His money?

I think you will find its TAXPAYERS money!

Yeah, right. My ass. It's his money, it was given to him. Also everything you can spend money on is taxed by government last time I checked so...

And if you want to believe the majority of your taxes are used to pay benefits you're just eating up the bullshit they want you to believe.
You're not better than someone else because a government is taking money from you.

 

[funkypie]

His money?

I think you will find its TAXPAYERS money!

Some people simply refuse to admit some people abuse welfare.

One of my friends works full time and lives with his parents who is 29. He said he wants a ps4 but can't afford one. I didn't rage at him for not upgrading.

 

[B_Signal]

His money?

I think you will find its TAXPAYERS money!

No, it's his money. You don't get to pick and choose where tax money goes, probably for the best

 

[Shahadan]

Some people simply refuse to admit some people abuse welfare.

One of my friends works full time and lives with his parents who is 29. He said he wants a ps4 but can't afford one. I didn't rage at him for not upgrading.

Some people do, some people don't. Woopdeedoo.
Even when you work or are rich for that matter you always have access to some form of advantage you can abuse or not.

Amazon didn't pay taxes in my country for years, other companies do.

What's stupid in the OP is not related to how he gets is money.

 

[ksdixon]

Sorry, i feel differently for one. Your'e argument is not even logically sound. Entertainment is essential to mental health and the government does not mandate what he can buy. A PS4 is also a good investment, provided you buy only a couple of games with high longevity. I don't even know why im responding, it's quite obvious that you're morals take a rather vain perspective.

thank you. my earlier comment about looking-into getting a dog for companionship is another necessity with regard to good mental health.

The ps4 is a good investment since the PS+ games keep me ticking-over. Now that another poster has shown me boomberang, I might have another outlet to explore. I was interested in Alien:Isolation but had thought I would have to wait ages to afford to buy it. Now I might be albe to rent it instead.

 

[Ding-Ding]

god forbid you or any of your friends and family ever find themselves in a position where they cannot work. would you see them go homeless and hungry? or would you provide room and board but outright forbid them from watching your tv or playing your games so they have no enjoyment in their lives? you sound like a cartoon villain.

Actually I do know people who are on benefits and I have no issue at all with what they are getting. They all have one thing in common though. They cant afford a PS4 in the timeframe that you stated you can (if at all)

The fact the you have points to that you are over-claiming or claiming for things and diverting money from its intended purpose to pay for your gaming.

Both are called fraud btw

 

[BigTnaples]

Yeah. Fuck cross gen. Does nothing but ruin potential of great franchises and titles.


If Fallout 4 is cross gen it will be my biggest gaming disappointment in years.

 

[ReduxMachine]

His money?

I think you will find its TAXPAYERS money!

And I'm a taxpayer, if he has a legitimate disability then I think its fine to spend those benefits on whatever he likes. You can't just expect people who are unemployed to just exist, if they want to spend whatever they have left on games, then that's fine by me.

 

[ksdixon]

so it seems like the general consensus is that I view cross-gen games' existence as a detriment to PS4/XBONE adoption. That them being there allows for a cheap and nasty solution, improved games/player experience be damned.

And the other viewpoint which is more on the side of cross-gen games takes a wider landscape into perspective; essentially stating that even though people may have enough disposable income to purchase the new console etc, they may simply be a casual gamer instead and not be as fussed?

 

[ninjablade]

Actually I do know people who are on benefits and I have no issue at all with what they are getting. They all have one thing in common though. They cant afford a PS4 in the timeframe that you stated you can (if at all)

The fact the you have points to that you are over-claiming or claiming for things and diverting money from its intended purpose to pay for your gaming.

Both are called fraud btw

Dude just stop, you're living in fantasy land.

 

[Ding-Ding]

And I'm a taxpayer, if he has a legitimate disability then I think its fine to spend those benefits on whatever he likes. You can't just expect people who are unemployed to just exist, if they want to spend whatever they have left on games, then that's fine by me.

No benefits are not worked out that way. They are worked out by necessity. If he can afford a PS4 in a period of 4 to 6 weeks points out that something has seriously gone wrong.

 

[Sirim]

Getting into repeating myself alittle, but hopefully this clears it up a little

Take TLOU Factions Multiplayer for example. Usually something badass will happen in one of our matches on the PS3. Unless a person has a capture card that moment is lost forever. The PS4 Share Button is a genuine improvement, and would allow those moments to be saved/shared forever. These friends always bitch that their teammate didn't see their epic moment, so I tell them to grab a PS4 and use the share button. They balk at the PS4 price, but still plan to get this years, or next years COD, AssCreed, FIFA, Battlefeild or whatever else. They are actively harming their own play experiences because there exists a cheap and nasty solution of continue buying the last gen versions. However if this and next year's blockbuster games were only current gen, then suddenly their experience would be improved. This isn't just TLOU either, it would be the same if they pulled off something cool in the upcoming cross-gen FarCry4 too.

Meanwhile, whilst they're doing that to themselves, there's now a divide in our group. Those of us that are current gen, and those that aren't. Those of us that aren't are going to save money but have a bad experience. Those of us that are, are looking at either buying a lesser version of the game in order to keep the group together, or god forbid buying two versions of the same game. That a last gen version exists is really a pain. Without the last gen version those friends whom are back there would quickly find a nice stock pile of games they want to continue playing the next iteration of, and would find the justification for buying the new system. And all the other benefits which come along with playing on the new system.

I don't understand your argument, because you assume that it is a given that current-gen players will have bad experiences.

Also, I can't think of a single cross-gen game where the next-gen experience is worth a minimum of 400$ extra.

You're right that next-gen versions are better than last-gen versions. But your great frustration in the OP that people aren't willing to pay lots of money for quite honestly minimal and often superficial improvement is ridiculous.

Next-gen versions of cross-gens are better, but I wouldn't pay 400$ for it.

I bought a PS4 mainly for the future, and I coudn't wait any longer for it. Those people who can have little reason to jump over, unless there's some next-gen only game they're dying for.

Also, like I said, your sentiment in the OP about how confusing it is that people with money to spend don't want to spend it on next-gen consoles just...is ridiculous. I've never upgraded my PC to play the better versions of games I love, and I don't feel like I'm stupid for it. I'm just content with what I have.

Is this really something that bothers you so greatly? That people don't want to spend the money? The only cross-gen game that's radically different on next-gen consoles is Shadow of Mordor.

You seem to acknowledge that next-gen is better than the last-gen counterpart, but over-exaggerate how much better it is, and thus over-exaggerate how silly it is to not pay for next-gen at this time.

 

[10k]

It generates 24-50% of publishers revenue. Do you want them to burn all that cash up just to make prettier games for a minority of people?

 

[ksdixon]

Actually I do know people who are on benefits and I have no issue at all with what they are getting. They all have one thing in common though. They cant afford a PS4 in the timeframe that you stated you can (if at all)

The fact the you have points to that you are over-claiming or claiming for things and diverting money from its intended purpose to pay for your gaming.

Both are called fraud btw

If I had have gone without food, or missed a rent/bill payment to purchase a PS4, then fine, I would understand your point of thinking. But I still had to save-up whatever I could from three payments (6 weeks), rather than rush out and spend two weeks payment on a PS4. I see it as no different than many people who 'dip into' a bank overdraft facility, or 'put a little more' onto an ever growing credit card debt, with I own neither. Just because I happen to have a PS4 does not automatically mean I'm rolling in money. Believe me I wish I was.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Sounds like your friends and family have better sense than to spend money on a console while it has the highest cost and the fewest games of its lifetime. Better to wait a year and let things flesh out.

 

[herod]

as long as the first party games continue to be unremarkable, there is no great rush to upgrade.

 

[Ding-Ding]

Dude just stop, you're living in fantasy land.

I think you had better go look at what the government describes as benefit fraud. If you want to continue being pig ignorant however...

 

[jimi_dini]

I think you had better go look at what the government describes as benefit fraud. If you want to continue being pig ignorant however...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_fraud_in_the_United_Kingdom#Definition_of_benefit_fraud

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) define benefit fraud as when someone obtains state benefit they are not entitled to or deliberately fails to report a change in their personal circumstances.

Nothing about buying a console.
Unless that someone won lots of money through a lottery ticket, then it's not benefit fraud.

If someone saved money every month to finally afford a Wii U, PS4 or some other console? Why would that be benefit fraud?

It wouldn't even make sense to deny it. Some people have disabilities that force them to stay at home for the whole day. "Oh my gosh, they are playing on a videogame console the whole day. Benefit fraud!!!!!one" smfh

 

[ksdixon]

I don't understand your argument, because you assume that it is a given that current-gen players will have bad experiences.

Also, I can't think of a single cross-gen game where the next-gen experience is worth a minimum of 400$ extra.

I'm talking specifically from my group of friens, whom both moan about missed footage, but refuse to get a PS4 with it's built-in share button (or xbox with it's 'xbox record that' if you like). You can't really have it both ways, if you know what I mean? And yet this is exactly what cross-gen games allow.

Also, I don't think any one game is worth a $400 investment. I think that's a little unfair. My point was more along the lines that there are still so many cross-gen titles, and so many years of cross-gen titles, that it really dings' the new console's ability to sell themselves. PS4 and XBONE can have all the system features they want, but some people are only interested in the games. And if 5 of your 10 games are also available on the older systems, you've just lost 5 potential reasons for someone to upgrade.

Those people who can have little reason to jump over, unless there's some next-gen only game they're dying for.

And that is my problem with cross-gen games, in a nutshell. Until those games become the very same next-gen only game they're dying for, they have little reason (as casual users) to make the jump.

 

[xam3l]

The pain is real, I am sat here as the sole PS4 owner amongst friends and family who flat out refuse to upgrade.

Hum.. these things cost money dude. And why invest in a platform when the library available doest have the games I maybe want?

 

[McLovin]

All my friends upgraded to ps3's in its 3rd year so I expect the same with ps4

If Sony is smart they will take advantage of that PC architecture and make the ps5 a faster version of the ps4. Better everything but 100% compatible with ps4 stuff.

 

[Dereck]

There is gonna be a point in time where cross-gen, will not exist, and you will not have to worry about it. It will happen, so until then, just suck it up I guess. I've been trying to do the same thing.

 

[Asmodai48]

I guess they might as well cancel Ps4/Xbox one games too since they look "last gen" compared to a high end PC

 

[ksdixon]

Hum.. these things cost money dude. And why invest in a platform when the library available doest have the games I maybe want?

Lets say you like COD, FIFA, AssCreed, BF etc. If those games, theoretically, stay releasing on PS3/360 every year, like sports games usually tend to do... would you ever have a reason to upgrade?

If I was your friend and we played together online... would you expect me to buy two copies of the game, or only the last gen version?

I'm aware there's an upfront cost of the console, but once that's out of the way, things improve. We could still play together, we could share clips, you could try out a game which doesn't have a demo without having to buy the game via shareplay etc.

 

[10101]

Fuck you. Spending benefits on a ps4 And you realise why people dont have sympathy for benefit claimants.

Yeah I hate to say it but I agree with you.

 

[Ding-Ding]

If I had have gone without food, or missed a rent/bill payment to purchase a PS4, then fine, I would understand your point of thinking. But I still had to save-up whatever I could from three payments (6 weeks), rather than rush out and spend two weeks payment on a PS4. I see it as no different than many people who 'dip into' a bank overdraft facility, or 'put a little more' onto an ever growing credit card debt, with I own neither. Just because I happen to have a PS4 does not automatically mean I'm rolling in money. Believe me I wish I was.

See this is where the issue is. 3 payments of 230 quid, yet somehow you diverted at least 350 on gaming.

Are you seriously suggesting you somehow lived on the 340 pounds left for 6 weeks which also includes rent?

Sorry but it just doesn't add up

 

[lensoftruth]

Surely you buy a console for exclusives anyway? Gamers are weird

 

[SeanR1221]

I have a few friends who don't want to upgrade because they can get anything on 360 or PS3.

A couple just decided to go the PC + Wii U route.

 

[ksdixon]

There is gonna be a point in time where cross-gen, will not exist, and you will not have to worry about it. It will happen, so until then, just suck it up I guess. I've been trying to do the same thing.

People seem to think late 2015 will likely be the cross-gen cutoff time period. I really hope so. In fact now that big hitters like Destiny and the new FIFA/PES are out and we're a year removed from launch I'm kinda hoping that a lot of hangers-on will grab a next gen machine for Black Friday/Christmas, at least out of my circle of family and friends.

 

[McLovin]

Eh I'm cool with people using my taxpayer money on games. It's better then spending it on booze or trading it for cash to buy drugs. Not saying the op would do any of that.

 

[Vizzeh]

The thing I worry more about cross-gen is that

1 - we are not getting a full-next Gen experience with some games.
2- After last Gen we do not wants as long as cycle, Cross-Gen eating into 2 years of this Gen's development when It can take 2-3 Games for a developer to find their stride it may push the length of this Gen further.
3 - Its up to the First Party Devs to make the leaps forward to entice the consumer to purchase unfortunately.

 

[Akibared]

I sucks being the only one with the new toy so that's why I made sure my buddies were getting a PS4 before getting one.

 

[ksdixon]

See this is where the issue is. 3 payments of 230 quid, yet somehow you diverted at least 350 on gaming.

Are you seriously suggesting you somehow lived on the 340 pounds left for 6 weeks which also includes rent?

Sorry but it just doesn't add up

I said elsewhere that the rent is mostly covered by a different benefit, Disabled Living Allowance. On the one hand it's good that I have DLA for being disabled instead of nothing, but then on the other hand I have to deal with the drawbacks physically and psychologically of being disabled and the limitations that poses. I'd much rather be 'normal' and work, but I can't really help the way my situation is. Don't forget that I do have parents that help me out a little. It might only be a pint of milk or something trivial like that, but it saves me a couple of quid down at the shop etc.

 

[Kysen]

No, it's his money. You don't get to pick and choose where tax money goes, probably for the best

That's why benefits should be credits. If you want extras go to work like everyone else.

 

[a.wd]

I should be ashamed. Thats rich.

Benefits claimants receive money that the government stipulates what is the minimum needed to live on for the essentials. Now tell me what planet do you live on where its regarded that a PS4 is regarded as a necessity to live?

He is getting an increased amout of money to help pay for his disability. So at the time he says he cannot afford what he needs to help with his disability, he buys a PS4.

Sorry but I have no sympathy for people like that and I doubt many taxpayers would feel that differently

As a tax payer I couldn't give a flying fuck about the tiny percentage of the UKs debt that is attributed to benefit claimants (less than a %!) , as a company owner, I am incensed that the general British public are still willing to chastise and attack the poorest most vulnerable sections of society rather than go after the tax avoiding rule bending elite where 90+% of our indebtedness comes from.

Take your moral stance, but actually back it up with some basic knowledge and you will see that someone who buys a games console for entertainment by sacrificing food and other basic requirements just to entertain themselves is not as bad as someone buying a large part of Berkshire because they can get away with it.

We should all be ashamed for letting the system get the way it is and that we still have no checks or balances in place at the top, but we allow the people who are part of that elite control the media and our perspectives on each other. Utterly idiotic, especially those stating we should only have credits for the poor? How do they become less poor? Think about the conditions required, and have some compassion for gods sake.

 

[IsntChrisL]

Fuck this noise. Not everyone has the same cash/priorities as you. I could technically afford a new system but I'm saving money for other things at the moment. I couldn't give 2 shits that the PS4/XBO versions might suffer because of it. Sony and MS decided to drag last gen out for too long and now you've got a ton of people that own their systems because of the extended cycle.

You're already getting what you want, anyway. Batman's not cross-gen next year. Neither is Uncharted 4, Halo 5, and several other exclusives. Ubisoft is already making a push with current gen-exclusive Assassin's Creed games too.

 

[Kris Pistofferson]

So... some of you have pointed out it's more like I'm annoyed with cross-gen gamers (or last gen gamers playing cross-gen games) more than actual cross-gen games themselves. It's probably not the correct way to phrase the question, but whom is 'at fault' for the situation?

There is no 'fault' because there is no wrong being committed.

1. Consumers want as much value for their money as possible.
2. Publishers want as much value for their money as possible.

Being 'buyer' and 'seller' means that they have conflicting interests because each group is trying to get as much value from the other as possible. For as long as old-gen owners outnumber new-gen owners, cross-gen support is mutually beneficial to all parties.

For example, Activision would never have spent half a billion on Destiny for a market of just ~15 million systems. It were the 150 million PS3 and 360 systems that warranted the investment. It's these previous-gen owners that you complain about who subsidize game production for your PS4.

 

[jimi_dini]

If Sony is smart they will take advantage of that PC architecture and make the ps5 a faster version of the ps4. Better everything but 100% compatible with ps4 stuff.

That's not how it works. In case PS4 games are able to directly access the hardware and don't have to use some API to access GPU and such, then backward compatibility is difficult. Even with an API it's difficult (see all sorts of PC games, that don't work properly on latest Windows version). PS5 would have to use a GPU, that is compatible to the old one (like Wii U GPU for example). And there may be more hurdles.

Of course - there is the other question - why should Sony even implement that next generation? PS4 Gamers don't seem to care and instead even like it to buy their favorite game a second time on the latest hardware. Sony half-assed it last generation and don't even offer it at all this generation. Also: Sony wants to push their Playstation Now service. Wouldn't make sense to offer backward compatibilty then wouldn't it?

Play PS4 games on PS5 (*)

(*) through PS Now service. Additional charges apply.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

i'm the same way, i plan to get a ps4 and start renting most of my games from game fly, ill buy only must haves like, MGS, batman AK, and witcher 3.

Nice! Another thing, since I like to buy my games for cheap, I wouldn't mind playing a last gen version then in the future playing the new gen one and enjoying the differences, lol. Though I like your plan, maybe I should use gamefly too (too big a backlog now to do it, though).

 

[Theognosis]

The pain is real, I am sat here as the sole PS4 owner amongst friends and family who flat out refuse to upgrade.


The main problem is cross-gen games getting released into the foreseeable future (2015 releases will still be on PS3/XB360). Certain people aren't going to plonk down money on a new console in order to play a better version of a game they want, they'll just get the game for their already-owned console. For them it's the difference between £50 on last gen and £350+£50 on the current gen, and price will always win. The only way to get those players to upgrade is to literally only put a game on current gen, so if they 'really' want it that much they will suddenly be able to justify getting a new console.


I realize that not everyone can afford a new console. But that argument QUICKLY loses all it's momentum when you realize that people who're in employment are on a lot more money that I am, and it only took me a month of saving a little out of three benefit payments (after paying rent, bills and food etc) in order for me to walk down to my local TESCOS and pick up a PS4 for £350, and a copy of Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes. The PS+ game(s) kept me stocked-up until I could afford to pick something else-up two weeks later, and so-on. Someone who is on a full time wage wouldn't have to save-up for a month in advance, or wait a further two weeks to get a second retail game etc. And the fact that now that time has gone-on the console isn't always £350, sometimes it's £330, or £320, or sometimes has a game bundled-in etc.


Note: Sorry is this isn't thread-worthy, didn't know where else to put it, and I wanted to see if anyone has any for/against discussion points regarding cross-gen games.

By your logic, developers should stop making games for inferior "next-gen" consoles because it is hampering the progress of PC gaming (which represents the best iteration of any game in 4K@60fps). In an ideal world, everybody would save/buy a gaming PC and abandon consoles altogether, right? Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft should just quit consoles and support the superior platform.

But let's wake up to the real world and stop complaining. People have priorities in life, and buying a PS4/XB1/WiiU may be at the bottom of their list.

Long live cross-gen games!

 

[a.wd]

Also if you are gaming on a limited budget you should probably get an XB1 EA access is a great deal and will provide you with hours of AAA gaming. I see PS+ and GWG to be a complete wash for next gen they offer exactly the same service and games at this point.

 

[ksdixon]

That's not how it works. In case PS4 games are able to directly access the hardware and don't have to use some API to access GPU and such, then backward compatibility is difficult. Even with an API it's difficult (see all sorts of PC games, that don't work properly on latest Windows version). PS5 would have to use a GPU, that is compatible to the old one (like Wii U GPU for example). And there may be more hurdles.

Of course - there is the other question - why should Sony even implement that next generation? PS4 Gamers don't seem to care and instead even like it to buy their favorite game a second time on the latest hardware. Sony half-assed it last generation and don't even offer it at all this generation. Also: Sony wants to push their Playstation Now service. Wouldn't make sense to offer backward compatibilty then wouldn't it?

Play PS4 games on PS5 (*)

(*) through PS Now service. Additional charges apply.

Oh no, we'd deffinately like backwards compatibility if it were available. But since it's not, we appreciate having remasters or PSNow, so that we can only have one machine hooked-up under the TV and not have to swap; or we can have the benefits of the new console (faster/share button etc.) but still enjoy the old game.

 

[DevilFox]

I'm ok with them (of course I am, I haven't jumped to the 8th gen yet).
Anyway, I really believe that cross gen games for the first year are a sign of respect for the gamers who supported the last consoles, it's not good to feel suddenly forgotten.
Cross gen games starting from the second year are just disrespectful for the gamers who jumped so early in the new gen.

 

[SocksForWoks]

It is a bummer but financially it makes sense to release cross gen because the last gen platforms already have well established user bases.

I wonder if games like Destiny and Titanfall would be better if the resources didn't get split between next gen and last.

 

[Shahadan]

That's why benefits should be credits. If you want extras go to work like everyone else.

Yeah great idea, the system would definitely work if you prevented a lot of people to consume and make the economy work!

 

[Dermee]

I read this thread title in Jeff Gerstmann's voice.

 

[B_Signal]

That's why benefits should be credits. If you want extras go to work like everyone else.

you honestly expect the unemployed and disabled to live exactly as the state dictates? What if you've got a friends birthday coming up, what about christmas. What do you expect them to do with their time, you can only spend so much time looking for a job (assuming they're on benefits because they're unemployed), people need some form of entertainment and a way to socialise

this is ignoring the problems credits would cause to society, you'd have an increase in crime, drug use, mental health problems, nutritional problems

 

[BeforeU]

May be they dont give that much shit about games as you do?

 

[spwolf]

The main problem is cross-gen games getting released into the foreseeable future (2015 releases will still be on PS3/XB360). Certain people aren't going to plonk down money on a new console in order to play a better version of a game they want, they'll just get the game for their already-owned console. For them it's the difference between £50 on last gen and £350+£50 on the current gen, and price will always win.

well, probably gonna be 300 GBP bundles with games over holidays... thats gonna sway a lot of people as well as more and more exclusives and cool features coming online.

Otherwise of course, there will likely be major games coming for PS3/360 well into 2016 likely.

 

[TGO]

People who work are a little more reluctant to pay out £350, yes there wage covers it but they work for that money and have things to pay for, mo money mo problems remember.