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[Theorry]

You are.

Destiny 2 hands those engrams out like candy. You can get nine free ones each week at triple speed, then as many free ones as you want after that at regular speed. I've never seen a single game disincentivize lootbox purchases more than D2.

And people complained about being it pay to win haha. With those blue mods haha.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Just need to check out how many people who were editors before now work at publishers.

Love this gamergate shit right here.

 

[Marcel]

Catherine is also grindy as fuck as you have to finish it multiple times to do all, but there's no such drama when stuff like this happens. A grindy ending could mean a 5 hours power levelling session or 100 hours. This thread was made as soon as an "anonymous" comment said something potentially negative about the game after this was already being discussed in at least 2 other threads. I know we love to jump to conclusions (remember the "no coop in Destiny 2 campaign" hysteria?), but I'd rather see actual discussions based on facts than uncertain info. I am not defending the loot boxes, but the reactions are pretty ridiculous.

The issue that people seem to have is that the game's punitive design during the endgame pushes you toward buying legendary orcs with real money since the alternative is a currency treadmill. Catherine has nothing to do with this type of system.

 

[5taquitos]

They don't say that the game itself is grindy, just getting the true ending. Which is something that has been around for generations across multiple games. Whether it is collection hundreds of useless items/riddles to get final gear or cutscenes or accomplishing certain tasks in game in a certain manner. From PC to Console games, I found many titles that had this in the Action adventure and RPG segment. I personally don't like it, but to imply that this is a new issue brought about by MT's or this game in particular is a very skewed and incorrect idea.

The problem with MT and people against it, is that they are going on a bender, where EVERY game that has MT needs to be vilified and it is hard to go through numerous threads on gaf because there is no nuance for alot of posters. Discussion about implementation or labled MT versus lootbox. Can a game be good despite the MT and lootboxes?

It seems as if everything is taken to extreme and people are just angry all the time. It does seem toxic.

You're ignoring the concept that these grindy games are now balanced around the MTs. Before, when presented with a grind, players could only grind it out. Publishers now see that they can get more money by extending the grind but offering shortcuts for real money.

That shit can fuck off.

 

[Veitsev]

Catherine is also grindy as fuck as you have to finish it multiple times to do all, but there's no such drama when stuff like this happens. A grindy ending could mean a 5 hours power levelling session or 100 hours. This thread was made as soon as an "anonymous" comment said something potentially negative about the game after this was already being discussed in at least 2 other threads. I know we love to jump to conclusions (remember the "no coop in Destiny 2 campaign" hysteria?), but I'd rather see actual discussions based on facts than uncertain info. I am not defending the loot boxes, but the reactions are pretty ridiculous.

BS

Catherine is in no way comparable to this.

Every ending in Catherine is easily obtainable. The game lets you skip through previously beat content and there is an easy mode that lets you get things even quicker. The 9th ending isn't even important and is a reward for doing everything.

None of this is built around content in loot boxes either.

 

[staticneuron]

Some people villify games with MTs and some don't. Some can look past it and some are bothered by it. Some look forward to what other people consider grinds. And grinds when backed by premium MTX to bypass them changes the way they're viewed.

But you're right that there are different kinds of MTX schemes out there, which is why I'm trying to track down info, which hasn't been straightforward, nor covered all that well by many of the reviews. My personal assumption is that not all reviewers spent much time in the latter part of the game, but I don't know.

I am guessing because it is alot of work for little pay off. A single cutscene? That reminds me of trying to 100% Arkham knight. I like the game. I had fun. Do I need to 100% it? Nope, I have other things to do. I think that is the important distinction here and posters are treating this optional true ending as if it is half of the game people "MUST" get through. This hyperbole is directly related to MT because I don't recall any threads lamenting having to get 100% in AK to see true ending. Or any grind in persona series, or so on and so forth.

You're ignoring the concept that these grindy games are now balanced around the MTs. Before, when presented with a grind, players could only grind it out. Publishers now see that they can get more money by extending the grind but offering shortcuts for real money.

That shit can fuck off.

No I am pointing out that optional true endings always had absurd grinds around them before MT was concerned. This is not justifying MT's in general or implementations in Forza 7 or NBA2K18. I am just pointing out if the point of contention is over a grind for a true ending cutscene of a game, then this outrage is overblown.

 

[Neuromancer]

Wow the end game grind sounds terrible. I was already unsure about this game and this news edged me over to the "no thanks" side.

I feel badly for the developers, though. I would guess that the suits at WB forced this whole loot box thing onto them but they're the ones who will get punished the most for poor sales.

 

[Yui's Empire]

BS

Catherine is in no way comparable to this.

Every ending in Catherine is easily obtainable. The game lets you skip through previously beat content and there is an easy mode that lets you get things even quicker. The 9th ending isn't even important and is a reward for doing everything.

None of this is built around content in loot boxes either.

All I'm saying is that some reviews mentioned the ending being grindy. Aside from a dubious comment we have no indication of how much. Some might consider a 5 hours session grindy. A reviewer I know considered having to do patrols between Destiny 2 missions to reach a high enough level to consider the story a grindy method. I'd just keep the pitchforks away before we know what the hell is going on, that's all.

 

[rochellepaws]

Posts like this are definitely a large part of the reason devs and journalists consider the community to be toxic.

Cynicism or suspicion towards the relationship between the gaming media and publishers is healthy and largely justifiable.
The sort of contempt journalists have often shown towards the audience which they serve is probably as good a reason as any as to why youtube and twitch personalities capable of building a strong rapport with their fans are thriving in their place.

Just need to check out how many people who were editors before now work at publishers.

Do you have examples for that?

 

[Veitsev]

All I'm saying is that some reviews mentioned the ending being grindy. Aside from a dubious comment we have no indication of how much. Some might consider a 5 hours session grindy. A reviewer I know considered having to do patrols between Destiny 2 missions to reach a high enough level to consider the story a grindy method. I'd just keep the pitchforks away before we know what the hell is going on, that's all.

The point isn't that its grindy.

The point is that it is designed to be grindy to incentivize the player spending $$$ on lootboxes.

 

[Kintaro]

They picked a bad year to test the boundaries of microtransactions that's for sure.

This doesn't even seem that bad compared to others TBH. Also, did they? This year is full of great games with lootboxes, MTs or DLC to buy. The biggest games of the year (Destiny 2, Call of Duty, Star Wars) will all have MTs and will all sell 5-15million a pop. Not counting GTAV, NBA, Madden and Fifa. Ghost Recon Wildlands is/was the best selling game of the year and it has MTs. Rocket League, Overwatch, PU: Battlegrounds will/does have them.

2017 is the year of microtransactions, lootboxes, DLC and Amiibo MTs.

It's the perfect year.

Cynicism or suspicion towards the relationship between the gaming media and publishers is healthy and largely justifiable.
The sort of contempt journalists have often shown towards the audience which they serve is probably as good a reason as any as to why youtube and twitch personalities capable of building a strong rapport with their fans are thriving in their place.

Oh yeah, those trustworthy Youtubers sure are better. There has never been controversy there.

 

[Marcel]

I am guessing because it is alot of work for little pay off. A single cutscene? That reminds me of trying to 100% Arkham knight. I like the game. I had fun. Do I need to 100% it? Nope, I have other things to do. I think that is the important distinction here and posters are treating this optional true ending as if it is half of the game people "MUST" get through. This hyperbole is directly related to MT because I don't recall any threads lamenting having to get 100% in AK to see true ending. Or any grind in persona series, or so on and so forth.

A requisite search reveals some threads from 2015 taking Arkham Knight to task for its bullshit. There were more but I'll just give you the basics.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1164564
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1139303
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1089501

Have fun reading! Or don't since it doesn't fit your flimsy argument lol

 

[Catchpenny]

On the one hand, this really stinks, for all the reasons laid out here.

On the other hand, I'll probably still play the game, because I liked the first one. I also have no qualms with putting down the game and missing the "true ending" if the grind sucks, as I really don't care about WB's story add-on to the world of JRR freakin' Tolkien.

 

[NullPointer]

... This hyperbole is directly related to MT because I don't recall any threads lamenting having to get 100% in AK to see true ending. Or any grind in persona series, or so on and so forth.

Can you buy your way through those grinds? Because if so I wouldn't be surprised if those games had ended up with similar treatment. Once you tie a grind to microtransactions they aren't looked at the same way, and for a good revenue-incentive reason.

 

[MagusMaleficus]

Cheat Engine? Dunno if there’s an online component to check for that but if not, I guess that’s an option for skipping the grind... ¯_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Wagram]

Yeah, i'm not even going to buy this game. Hard skip. First one was okay, but fuck these practices.

 

[le.phat]

Again, vote with your wallets people. I have a feeling that every AAA title will be ride with this predatory shit from here on out. Let your voice be heard by boycotting this shit.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

It's the perfect year.

The point was that there are plenty of other stellar games to play this year that don't follow the same MT structure as SoW. Especially story driven games. If you decide to miss it chances are there's a number of other games that you will want to play.

 

[Sulik2]

Holy cow this sounds awful. A new low for MTs in AAA games it seems.

 

[OldMuffin]

You are.

Destiny 2 hands those engrams out like candy. You can get nine free ones each week at triple speed, then as many free ones as you want after that at regular speed. I've never seen a single game disincentivize lootbox purchases more than D2.

You excuse them now and next thing you know you will start having to pay to see the true ending of games.... oh wait

 

[wesleyshark]

And people complained about being it pay to win haha. With those blue mods haha.

Yeah lol. So much outrage over nothing.

 

[uncledonnie]

I really don't have an issue with lootboxes in general but this is shit. It's not enough to get me to pass on the game but I'll be youtubing that true ending -- which is the same thing I do in games that are grindy for stuff like this that don't have lootboxes. Just don't have time for that shit anymore.

 

[staticneuron]

The point isn't that its grindy.

The point is that it is designed to be grindy to incentivize the player spending $$$ on lootboxes.

Cathering is between 10 to 13 hours to beat. Completionists runs are around 70 hours. Even if the optional ending of any game took 5 to 10 hours, people have their own ideas of what is worth it or not. Or what is considered a grind. But to pretend that this type of grind didn't exist before MT or wouldn't have come about as a way to pad time is just being INCREDIBLY selective about what it takes to really complete many games in the past few gens.

A requisite search reveals some threads from 2015 taking Arkham Knight to task for its bullshit. There were more but I'll just give you the basics.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1164564
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1139303
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1089501

Have fun reading! Or don't since it doesn't fit your flimsy argument lol

I guess I must have missed those.... but.... thanks for them.

Because in those threads they list many titles that require 100% to see true endings and don't have MT to do so. Maybe this will help refresh memories of people who have forgotten these games existed. Thanks again.

 

[Yui's Empire]

The point isn't that its grindy.

The point is that it is designed to be grindy to incentivize the player spending $$$ on lootboxes.

Eh, tbh I'm torn on the issue. I encountered games you have to beat 4+ times to see the true ending. Games where you need dozens if not hundreds of hours of mindless grinding to beat some hardcore boss. Games where progress is slowed down artificially making you go by inch after inch only about once a week to make sure you don't get to the end too fast.

Am I opposed to loot boxes? I am, never bought one. Am I opposed to adding shortcuts to get to the end of these grinds faster? Maybe. I wouldn't buy into them, but to me a long grind is already shitty enough to begin with, yet a lot of Internet favourites are insanely grindy and a lot of people would have probably loved to have spent 5-10 bucks to get to the end faster. I am not invested in games enough to spend money on such things or grind dozens of hours just to see an extra cutscene, but honestly this ending doesn't sound any worse to me than, say, Destiny 1 asking for hundreds of dollars for the full package, on-disc DLCs, loot boxes containing OP weapons and such. WB is trying a weird concept here, and I'd never buy into it, but it's far from the most disgusting practice I've ever seen tbh. Fortnite, as a recent example, is 10 times worse when it comes to progress.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Eh, tbh I'm torn on the issue. I encountered games you have to beat 4+ times to see the true ending. Games where you need dozens if not hundreds of hours of mindless grinding to beat some hardcore boss. Games where progress is slowed down artificially making you go by inch after inch only about once a week to make sure you don't get to the end too fast.

Am I opposed to loot boxes? I am, never bought one. Am I opposed to adding shortcuts to get to the end of these grinds faster? Maybe. I wouldn't buy into them, but to me a long grind is already shitty enough to begin with, yet a lot of Internet favourites are insanely grindy and a lot of people would have probably loved to have spent 5-10 bucks to get to the end faster. I am not invested in games enough to spend money on such things or grind dozens of hours just to see an extra cutscene, but honestly this ending doesn't sound any worse to me than, say, Destiny 1 asking for hundreds of dollars for the full package, on-disc DLCs, loot boxes containing OP weapons and such. WB is trying a weird concept here, and I'd never buy into it, but it's far from the most disgusting practice I've ever seen tbh. Fortnite, as a recent example, is 10 times worse when it comes to progress.

Fortnite isn't a boxed, full price game.

 

[Marcel]

Cathering is between 10 to 13 hours to beat. Completionists runs are around 70 hours. Even if the optional ending of any game took 5 to 10 hours, people have their own ideas of what is worth it or not. Or what is considered a grind. But to pretend that this type of grind didn't exist before MT or wouldn't have come about as a way to pad time is just being INCREDIBLY selective about what it takes to really complete many games in the past few gens.

Your "Cathering" comparison is flawed and has already been shown as such by multiple people. Could you not double down on it?

 

[BashNasty]

To offer an alternate perspective as this thread continues to do what pretty much every Shadow of War thread has done before it, here's the section on loot boxes from a rather positive review of the game by Rock, Paper, Shotgun.

And yes, there are loot boxes. But put down those pitchforks for now. Truth be told, I’m not really sure what the point of the paid versions is. An in-game currency called mirian drops like rain from quest rewards, random fights, and even from breaking down Talion’s old gear, which you can then use to buy an occasional loot box from the “Market” menu that gives you level-appropriate gear in a pinch. Never once did I feel the need to spend real cash on one of the better boxes, as I usually already had good stuff I’d looted from captain kills and collection rewards. I kept waiting for the need for better gear to overtake the cash flow, but it never did, not even when I discovered I had to pay 1,000 mirian to unlock gem slots for my weapons and gear. Sure, the most expensive loot boxes contain all legendary gear and orcish followers, but strikes me as a case of spending money for the sake of spending it. Maybe it’s worth noting that I didn’t play on the hardest of Shadow of War’s three difficulty settings, but I’m not convinced it matters.

I'm posting that for a couple reasons. One is to offer a counterpoint to the pile on. The other is because, while I haven't played the game yet and thus cannot be certain, I'm guessing that my perspective on the loot boxes is going to be similar to theirs, given both my general agreement with RPS reviews and my own (benign) experiences with loot boxes in other games.

The constant one-note conversation that surrounds this game on GAF is getting very, very tired at this point. A lot of people here really hate loot boxes. Cool. Loot boxes are worthy of discussion and critique, but maybe we should put away the pitchforks until we've actually tried the game and can more accurately see what impact they have on it.

 

[wesleyshark]

Fortnite isn't a boxed, full price game.

It's not a full priced game?

 

[JigglesBunny]

Won’t even touch a used copy if this is the case.
Warner Bros. can get porked.

Easily the worst case of explorative microtransactions to date.

 

[NullPointer]

The constant one-note conversation that surrounds this game on GAF is getting very, very tired at this point.

Well now at least there is this thread which is exclusively about it, which should help to filter out the signal to noise.

 

[Yui's Empire]

Fortnite isn't a boxed, full price game.

(Obviously I am talking about the original game, not the Battle Royale mode that just came out)

It is currently sold for a minimum of 40 bucks, going as far as triple digits for some editions. It also comes in boxed, which is the edition I personally own. Despite the price of admission (the game will be f2p but right now it isn't), you have loot boxes, timers to wait for to do upgrades like in freaking Facebook games, a billion different currencies, and tons of grinding to do.

 

[shimon]

Cheat Engine? Dunno if there’s an online component to check for that but if not, I guess that’s an option for skipping the grind... ¯_(&#12484_/¯

Unless WB will have some way of checking the saves for modified data or some shit.

 

[Veitsev]

Cathering is between 10 to 13 hours to beat. Completionists runs are around 70 hours. Even if the optional ending of any game took 5 to 10 hours, people have their own ideas of what is worth it or not. Or what is considered a grind. But to pretend that this type of grind didn't exist before MT or wouldn't have come about as a way to pad time is just being INCREDIBLY selective about what it takes to really complete many games in the past few gens.

No one is pretending grindy games didn't' exist before MT. Way to miss the point.

Also stop comparing this game to Catherine. They are not remotely comparable.

 

[Floody]

Sounds really gross. Having to grind for the true ending has always been a little shitty imo, just unnecessary padding usually, but it's at least something for the super dedicated fans to chase. Being able to pay to skip the grind to a true ending is just straight up bullshit.
This was on the wait for a sale pile for me, now I'm not gonna touch it until this is gone or if the grind isn't actually "dozens of hours long".

 

[Maximo]

But people said Lootbox's dont effect the game? It was real obvious the game's progress was going to be effected.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Cynicism or suspicion towards the relationship between the gaming media and publishers is healthy and largely justifiable.

It's genuinely not considering the amount of baseless whackjob conspiracy theories and accusations get thrown around that shows a complete lack of understanding and perspective about how the industry works.

The sort of contempt journalists have often shown towards the audience which they serve is probably as good a reason as any as to why youtube and twitch personalities capable of building a strong rapport with their fans are thriving in their place.

That contempt is certainly well deserved.

 

[Norwegian_Imposter]

I will probably just youtube the real ending if the grind is too real lol.

 

[Stranya]

To offer an alternate perspective as this thread continues to do what pretty much every Shadow of War thread has done before it, here's the section on loot boxes from a rather positive review of the game by Rock, Paper, Shotgun.



I'm posting that for a couple reasons. One is to offer a counterpoint to the pile on. The other is because, while I haven't played the game yet and thus cannot be certain, I'm guessing that my perspective on the loot boxes is going to be similar to theirs, given both my general agreement with RPS reviews and my own (benign) experiences with loot boxes in other games.

The constant one-note conversation that surrounds this game on GAF is getting very, very tired at this point. A lot of people here really hate loot boxes. Cool. Loot boxes are worthy of discussion and critique, but maybe we should put away the pitchforks until we've actually tried the game and can more accurately see what impact they have on it.

Surely playing it on the middle difficulty, as the quote says, is relevant here. The first game was piss easy, so I'll definitely be playing on hard this time.

 

[FrontalMonk]

To offer an alternate perspective as this thread continues to do what pretty much every Shadow of War thread has done before it, here's the section on loot boxes from a rather positive review of the game by Rock, Paper, Shotgun.



I'm posting that for a couple reasons. One is to offer a counterpoint to the pile on. The other is because, while I haven't played the game yet and thus cannot be certain, I'm guessing that my perspective on the loot boxes is going to be similar to theirs, given both my general agreement with RPS reviews and my own (benign) experiences with loot boxes in other games.

The constant one-note conversation that surrounds this game on GAF is getting very, very tired at this point. A lot of people here really hate loot boxes. Cool. Loot boxes are worthy of discussion and critique, but maybe we should put away the pitchforks until we've actually tried the game and can more accurately see what impact they have on it.

This is fair to say, although honestly this is going to be one of those games where if the true ending is done like Arkham Knight's where it's behind a long grind, it'll do exactly what I did there: I'll play until I'm bored, then I'll YouTube it. It's not a great solution, but I'm sure that even if you're a day one purchaser the fact that you didn't do the grind will get borne out in the analytics.

 

[Rizific]

Good thing I don't give a shit about story or whatever "ending" I get.

 

[Kintaro]

Fortnite isn't a boxed, full price game.

Sure is. It's not $60 at retail ($40), but there are $60/90/150 editions on their product page. And boy does it love it's MT, timers, etc.

It's like, some of you guys don't even know how far MT rabbit hole goes. =P

This is fair to say, although honestly this is going to be one of those games where if the true ending is done like Arkham Knight's where it's behind a long grind, it'll do exactly what I did there: I'll play until I'm bored, then I'll YouTube it. It's not a great solution, but I'm sure that even if you're a day one purchaser the fact that you didn't do the grind will get borne out in the analytics.

Many are saying this like its a bad thing. This is what most gamers do whether the game is grindy, GOTY, bad, or otherwise. =P

 

[base shagohod]

Holy cow this sounds awful. A new low for MTs in AAA games it seems.

Lmao come on, yo. One example I'll throw out: MGSV. Their shit was a lot worse than this bc it affected the main campaign.

The bashing on this shit is pretty juvenile rn, tbh.

 

[Marcel]

Lmao come on, yo. One example I'll throw out: MGSV. Their shit was a lot worse than this bc it affected the main campaign.

The bashing on this shit is pretty juvenile rn, tbh.

Nah, making Shelob into a waifu tit monster is juvenile. People unhappy with monetization structures in single player games is expected.

 

[Neuromancer]

Fortnite isn't a boxed, full price game.

Looks like a boxed, full priced game to me.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/fortnite-playstation-4/5921703.p?skuId=5921703

(It is going F2P next year though.)

 

[Primethius]

Am I surprised or unsurprised that it managed to get high scores despite this?

I'm not even sure truth be told.

 

[ZanDatsu]

I'd have to imagine that anyone who does put all those extra hours in at the end are doing it because they are still enjoying the game, not because they are looking forward to an extra cut scene. At least this would be the case for me, if I stop enjoying it I'll just YouTube the extra scene.

 

[NullPointer]

Looks like a boxed, full priced game to me.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/fortnite-playstation-4/5921703.p?skuId=5921703

(It is going F2P next year though.)

Yeah, Fortnite is a weird one. Isn't it still technically in early access? But they sell a boxed version, which I guess they see as a 'starter kit' for the complete free-to-play release to come next year? So its a free game, you just have to pay for it right now. Games are doing some weird stuff these days.

 

[base shagohod]

Nah, making Shelob into a waifu tit monster is juvenile. People unhappy with monetization structures in single player games is expected.

lol I won't even comment on that, it's pretty obvious it was a stupid decision and it isn't even the topic at hand.

Upset is one thing, negativity/freak outs every time SOW is mentioned is another. I'm upset about micro-transactions too, but this really doesn't feel like the game to lose your shit over.

This sort of thing becoming the norm is of course worth freaking out over. But this ain't the worst lol.

 

[paragonpro]

Fuck that this is a 60 dollar video game not an f2p game.
Im not buying another game with loot crates, that includes forza which i was so hyped for

 

[Transistor]

This game looks good, but god damn I can't support this loot box shit