equippedwithtowel
Member
GPU generations are not a direct exponential curve of raw power.
Their statement is hardly controversial.
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Shin'en Interview on WiiU Hardware: GPU "several generations ahead of Current Gen"
- Thread starter The_Lump
- Start date
GPU generations are not a direct exponential curve of raw power.
Their statement is hardly controversial.
But it was running at 1080p and they had to dial it back to run their effects. Doesn't seem very convincing to me. Its not like they made some huge open world game. I'm not buying it. We shall see if they deliver. Thanks for the response though.
Yes I also find some post here very amusing, from people that keep preaching still about 8g gddr5 RAM but I can support my arguments with facts.
So all this talk about the "low" power of the Wii come from developers that NEVER made a game about the Wii U, all others that did work on a title like Criterion praised the system power.
The Wii Us GPU and CPU are both highly customized chips, and Criterion feels that developers can get more out of it than they have. Time will tell if they are right, but Need For Speed for the Wii U is looking mighty impressive thus far.
I find it very fun also that people have double standards about what they are quoting from the developers community about the Wii U Shi'en at least they develop games and their work is their proof, what DICE, Insomniac, did develop for the Wii U?
A big fucking nothing. But fanboys make their quotes their banners, yes mate good laughs keep up the good fight. GG are experts to talk about graphics and their opinion matter more than shi'en because developers like shi'en are Nintendo fanboys?!
Great deduction logic but I forgot this is NEOgaf.
mysteriousmage09
Member
TheGreyHulk
Member
they're not close to the power levels of the PS4.
you can have a chip that's several generations ahead of current gen, but that does not mean it's extremely more powerful.
it's like having a kepler based GTX 630 and saying it's several generations ahead of a GTX 280. yeah it is architecturally more advanced and 3 generations ahead, but it's still a weak chip.
it's the same thing for the wii u. it's easily more advanced architecturally since current gen is from 05 level tech and many advancements have been made, but it's still a weak chip.
the wii u is definitely more powerful than current gen, but it's in the "ps3" situation where you have to spend a bunch of time with it to learn how it works. that's another hurdle for 3rd party devs for next gen especially since the big boys have an extremely similar gpu/cpu setup with the only diff being ram architecture and the number of CU's avail.
big n chose the stupid route in preserving full B/C with the original Wii and that gives them a funky architecture to work with. they should have opted for a brand new simpler architecture that would be easy to port to and from xbone/ps4
you can have a chip that's several generations ahead of current gen, but that does not mean it's extremely more powerful.
it's like having a kepler based GTX 630 and saying it's several generations ahead of a GTX 280. yeah it is architecturally more advanced and 3 generations ahead, but it's still a weak chip.
it's the same thing for the wii u. it's easily more advanced architecturally since current gen is from 05 level tech and many advancements have been made, but it's still a weak chip.
the wii u is definitely more powerful than current gen, but it's in the "ps3" situation where you have to spend a bunch of time with it to learn how it works. that's another hurdle for 3rd party devs for next gen especially since the big boys have an extremely similar gpu/cpu setup with the only diff being ram architecture and the number of CU's avail.
big n chose the stupid route in preserving full B/C with the original Wii and that gives them a funky architecture to work with. they should have opted for a brand new simpler architecture that would be easy to port to and from xbone/ps4
Its not insane, its what we have known for a long time. GPU generations, not console generations. It has a much more modern GPU and btw that in itself says nothing about flops or anything like that. It has DX 10.1 + equalient features, it has a modern shader arhitectures, better gpgpu features and so on.
Not that it's anything close to a fair comparison, given Nintendo have a generation of development pipeline advances on their side. And not that the WiiU being less powerful was even my point, or even my belief. I was just joking that it's very far from even being a good looking game.
Of course the WiiU is more powerful than the other two, it came out seven years later, how could it not be?
Is this going to be the new "looks like an N64 game"?
It'll be interesting to see Shinen's upcoming Wii U games. IIRC, they build their own game engines, so it's likely their games will be running on one of the most optimized third party engines available for the Wii U.
Most other Wii U games out now are running off engines built around the 360's architecture so this will likely be the first "next-gen" engine runnable on WiiU. Considering most of the other next-gen engines are unportable or just not worth the investment, it may be one of the few new engines we see for the Wii U.
Most other Wii U games out now are running off engines built around the 360's architecture so this will likely be the first "next-gen" engine runnable on WiiU. Considering most of the other next-gen engines are unportable or just not worth the investment, it may be one of the few new engines we see for the Wii U.
razoftblend
Member
They said they tried it but there was no sustancial different between 720p and 1080p, so they decided to focus on 720p. The result was a very small file size (around 60mb).
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
So they get a free pass but other developers get shit for not feeling the need to squeeze out any more for whatever Wii U title they released? Alright then.
mugurumakensei
Member
It is several gens ahead. power doesn't define GPUs easily cause you can range from low-end mobile to high-end desktop in the same GPU generation.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Replies in this thread don't disappoint.
Pretty eager to shit all over anyone who has nice things to say about Wii U, huh?
Shin'en is great, and I hope they continue to pump out gem after gem.
Pretty eager to shit all over anyone who has nice things to say about Wii U, huh?
Shin'en is great, and I hope they continue to pump out gem after gem.
It's not an AAA game, it's a small cheap game. For that little amount it looks gorgeous. Better than most of the games like this if not all.
Yeah, just read it was GPU gens and not console gens. And I said the statement was inane, not insane
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'd like to know what kind of PS2 you had that could do textures and reflections like that.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Trashing Shin'en because they've been focused on Nintendo devices is lowbrow fanboy wars talk.
They've proven for years that they understand how to extract performance from hardware. I think it's a safe bet they also know how these things called PCs work. So they're familiar with technology.
The real argument to be extracted from the interview is debating whether Nintendo's hardware strategy was a true mistake or not because it appears the system may indeed be quite capable, but hostile towards the median standards for 3rd party development.
We've been seeing proof of that so far, with quick and dirty ports not running well, MT Framework apparently badly ported to the system, etc. Even developers using it as an excuse to not work with Wii U (Frostbite drama, etc)
They've proven for years that they understand how to extract performance from hardware. I think it's a safe bet they also know how these things called PCs work. So they're familiar with technology.
The real argument to be extracted from the interview is debating whether Nintendo's hardware strategy was a true mistake or not because it appears the system may indeed be quite capable, but hostile towards the median standards for 3rd party development.
We've been seeing proof of that so far, with quick and dirty ports not running well, MT Framework apparently badly ported to the system, etc. Even developers using it as an excuse to not work with Wii U (Frostbite drama, etc)
Moronic statement. You could just as easily say that Naughty Dog are useless at tech because they don't develop for PC.
-_-
x1k series
2k series
3k series
4k series
Even at the lowest estimate of the GPU generation in the Wii U that counts, I would say. Add two more if it's closer to the 6k series. Says nothing about power, just feature set.
I don't understand why people see 'salt' in these threads. The Wii-U has numerous multiplats that run worse than PS3/360 games and the launch titles on PS4 and 720 will probably be more technically impressive than anything released on the Wii-U. There's no room for 'salt' as some nice words from Shin'en don't magically make great looking games appear. If you want to see 'salt', wait for a graphically impressive Wii-U game to come along. One that clearly blows the last gen stuff into the weeds. By then we'll be in the next gen and the cycle will continue regardless.
Edit: I'm with you on the last bit though, they're an extremely talented bunch.
Fourth Storm
Member
Nintendo has been good to them, so they are saying nice things. Not that they aren't true. What is 360 API similar to? DX9? WiiU is probably like DX10.1+some custom extensions. Now shader count is another story...
LiveFromKyoto
Member
But they explain exactly why in the quote in the OP. Moreso than PS360 it requires a processor-optimized design approach. Most ports were just projects with devs saying "oh hey, more RAM. Just shove it in there and get it running." It's not worth re-writing that much code just for an extra 5 fps and some added stability.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Hilarious. Good work attacking the community by "forgetting this is NEOgaf".
You seriously believe that DICE or Insomniac did not try to develop for Wii U? This is hilarious because its like saying who are these guys to say Wii U is x-times powerful than current/nextgen consoles when they haven't even developed for next gen?
Alright then.
Vermillion
Banned
1) ...What? Wii U's GPU is factually multiple generations ahead of PS360. Read the thread, please.
2) No, I'm sure you can easily find a better one.
3) ...Just read the interview.
Several just means more than two. So unless you're being particularly pedantic, Shin'en aren't exactly lying here.
Yup. As you can see, many here have already taken the comment our of context. Why is it that people sooo want to see the Wii U crash and burn is beyond me...
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I doubt that they tried to seriously develop for it, yes. And I'm not sure I specifically blame them if they're focused on other platforms and didn't want to invest the time and money
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
I expect every game on Wii U shown this E3 to look substantially better than GoW 3/A, TLoU, Uncharted 2/3, GeoW 3/J, and halo 4. If not I'm calling bullshit.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
I don't believe anyone in their right mind want to see Wii U crash and burn.
plagiarize
Banned
two is several. Xbox 360 is a DX9 level part Wii U is a DX 10.1 level part. That's two generations. Which is technically several.
Also its not an excuse. Its clearly what they meant. When talking about a gpu's generation you are clearly talking in gpu generations.
I guess it's safe to say that Shin'en threads have pretty much become a litmus test for pointing out the people who aren't versed in tech. Nothing they've said is factually wrong, it's just a matter of twisting the narrative, which goes both in terms of overestimating and underestimating just what they mean.
Pimpbaa
Member
What does resolution have to do with file size?
H_Prestige
Banned
So let me get this straight, when guys who work on the frostbite engine say the system is weak, they're full of shit. But when these guys say the system is powerful, they know what they're talking about?
Sooner or later you people are going to have to come to grips with what the WiiU is and what it is not. May as well be sooner.
Sooner or later you people are going to have to come to grips with what the WiiU is and what it is not. May as well be sooner.
I dig that, but ultimately very few people are going to put in the necessary work so it's almost moot. Things might get even worse once we transition to multiplats with the PS4/720 as primary targets.
With the Jet Rocket screen I am refering to the Poster who said Shinen don't know anything about tech, which clearly is a wrong statement.
Again, it's a launch game. Just look at their former games and you know how much they are capable of.
It's possible for a GPU to be a generation ahead, but with a lower shader count though isn't it? Or isn't it? (I don't know)
GitarooMan
Member
When they make something that can't be done on 360/PS3, then these words will likely have more weight. I've played Nano Assault Neo quite a bit, and it doesn't seem like anything outside the scope of 360/PS3 titles.
Herb Alpert
Banned
Wow. This thread is already great. One should use words like "generation" carefully. Especially when it comes to WiiU. Dark Forces are just waiting to be unleashed.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
You could already call BS, because even Killzone 4 dont look substantially better the Killzone 3. And thats on more powerful hardware.
The graphics API the WiiU uses is based around OpenGL 3.3 IIRC. In terms of DirectX, it's somewhere half way between 10 and 11.
The WiiU GPU is actually fairly decent as far as I know, not nearly as bad as what some people believe it is.
stuminus3
Member
DICE and Insomniac and anyone else willing to try could pull off some serious magic on the WiiU... if there was any reason for them to do so. Which is the real tragedy. These pissing matches about what the WiiU GPU can and can't do are irrelevant. Nintendo's biggest problem isn't technology.
Vicarious Visions? I wonder if they aided with work on the engine they made for the DS, since those games did pump out some really impressive visuals for the hardware.