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Should we boycott Shadow Complex?
- Thread starter Coins
- Start date
Someone should write a spin-off gay erotic novel staring Ender and Bean.
In all seriousness,
Gay marriage is seen as a civil rights issue by a lot of people. Personally, I've yet to hear a valid argument against it, or why it's not a civil rights issue. Invariably, the arguments are hateful or inappropriately religious. Orson Scott Card's comments and actions are bigoted, illogical, and hurtful. If companies decide to hire controversial figures, especially when these people say things that are ignorant and base people, then they should be willing to face the consequences of public ire.
In all seriousness,
Gay marriage is seen as a civil rights issue by a lot of people. Personally, I've yet to hear a valid argument against it, or why it's not a civil rights issue. Invariably, the arguments are hateful or inappropriately religious. Orson Scott Card's comments and actions are bigoted, illogical, and hurtful. If companies decide to hire controversial figures, especially when these people say things that are ignorant and base people, then they should be willing to face the consequences of public ire.
Littlegator
Banned
elrechazao said:
It was an exaggeration. Every author posted in response to me is definitely better than Card.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Ulairi said:
k
http://www.nauvoo.com/library/card-hypocrites.html
The day we stop treating dangerous ignorance that outright considers people to be less than they are based on sexual orientation without scorn is the day I fucking hang it up.
It deserves scorn. It doesn't deserve to be censored, if that's what you're asking, but it deserves scorn.
Mr.Potato Head
Banned
NaviLink said:
Agreed... this entire article is just plain stupid, i say just enjoy the damn game and keep all the other crap out of it including the gay rights stuff, its like where ever you look its slapped in your face now days
Ulairi said:
I agree with you, we should respect the rights of people to hold their own opinions. Card is certainly free to say or do whatever he wants. However, by not purchasing this game, one isn't punishing him at all, they're merely not supporting him. I certainly would not support any act to prevent this game from being sold, just as I won't support Card by giving him money through the purchase of this game.
The people on the left are just as mad. Everyone here feels like they have to pick a team instead of remaining independant and finding out for themselves. I think it's a combination of apathy and just general sloth. Either way, we have the right to be absurd on all levels, spread as much misinformation as possible, aggressively hate all those who oppose our views regardless of how ill informed and narrow they might be and people can rightfully not do any research of their own and take the words of a loon as fact and join a cause they know nothing about. It's awesome. Or in other words fuck yeah!Asmodai said:
Tobor said:
Says the guy who seems to make it his personal mission to defend every single act of anti-consumer douchery Apple is charged with on this forum.
Sure, I'd agree that groups trying to oppress the rights of others is worse than corporate malfeasance, but we're also talking about directly and indirectly. Shadow Complex doesn't directly promote or aid anti-homosexual actions or opinions in any way. You have to start going down the line to find the connection, and even then, it's not really that strong a link.
Personally, I could never impugn something based on such an indirect link. I am currently writing this via my Cablevision internet connection, a fucking foul company. While I don't know the full lineage of where the clothes I'm wearing came from, I know they were cheap (t-shirt and shorts) and were purchased at some mega-store, and thus, quite possibly were made by exploiting some 3rd world citizens. I don't look past this or just accept this as the way things are, it bothers me, but I do try to engage in personal accountability. I would laugh at myself something fierce if I tried to say on the internet that Shadow Complex is worthy of scorn and/or boycott because down the line you can make some vague connection to homophobic behavior even though the product in no way directly supports or promotes that, when I am unfortunately fucking awash in similar connections in my typical 21st century lifestyle.
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
I'm -really- surprised at this thread and the sort of people in it.
ShockingAlberto
Member
It is certainly doing more than copy and pasting their own posts from a few posts above.Odrion said:
And you edited in a period! Good for you.
EmCeeGramr said:
Just wanted to point out that a few pages earlier, this is precisely the slippery slope I was talking about EmCeeGramr:
EternalGamer said:
The Drowning Man said:
Saying that because a company decides to publish works or use a license, that they must somehow endorse the viewpoints!
As you can see, the chain is clearly fucking established in my argument.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Every time I refresh it's a new edit. :lol
Timber said:
OSC is against gay marriage. The developers and he co-created this universe. He will recieve monies from the sale of the game. We are try to punish him because he has beliefs we disagree with. He has not advocated hate. He has not said that gay people are evil, should be sent to jail. He has stated that he thinks gay marriage will hurt the nation and has given his reasons why.
If OSC advocated hate I would be in favour of not purchasing a game. But, to try to punish a studio and a writer because we have different political beliefs isn't going to change anyones minds. Also, the logic of being against OSC doesn't even work. He lives in Utah and couldn't have voted for or against prop 8. The law was changed because the population of california didn't want it. In fact, many people say because President Obama won so big in California and that black people do not want gay marriage in such high numbers was another cause of prop 8 not working. Should I boycott black people? They DIRECTLY not indirectly in the case of OSC contributed to gay people not being able to get married. Now, since we will boycott black people for being such hate mongers, should I only boycott black people in California or throughout the world. Also, the pro gay marriage groups in California did a horrible job with their message, should I boycott them for doing something that damanged the civil rights of gay people? I mean, did you see how they were trying to counter the prop 8 people? It was down right stupid. I think we need to find everyone who contributed to them and start the lists of boycotts. I cannot support someone in good faith who would have contributed to a group that directly harmed the civil rights of a gay person, in california.
You know what? I think John McCain would have been a horrible President and he doesn't believe in gay marriage either. We need to get the voter rolls and find out everyone who voted for them, because like OSC, they are against gay marriage and other things I believe in!
Unless someone can show me a quote from OSC that he advocates HATE and not just disagrees with a political movement, I think boycotting him will not help anything. I think a much better solution would have been for gaygamer.com to try to actually talk with the name and have a discussion. those, usually do much better in the long run of inacting change.
Mr.Green said:
Au contraire. This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be done. This is not a case of someone with extreme views who has been outed. This is someone who has actively campaigned for a section of our society to be denied the most basic of human rights. This kind of right wing nonsense is ignored at our peril. I cannot help but feel that if Orson Scott Card was a vocal racist then most people would be happy to ignore his output. Have I ever enjoyed literature, music or art that was the product of someone with homophobic views? Probably. Would my opinion of that work be tainted if I was aware of those views? Absolutely. Bottom line is that yes, I will be boycotting this game. I encourage any gamer with a sense of social justice to do likewise.
Calcaneus said:
:lol
The whole "mature" artform thing is so incredibly stupid. Do a bunch of pages on internet forums making up fake controversy for games somehow make the industry or the medium more mature? More worthy to be called "art?"
The people who seem to care so much about what certain people think of their hobby are the ones who aren't mature.
No, we have several people who speak out against homosexuality. What's wrong with that banner anyways? There are more hilarious ones that pop up than gay cruise ships.
Oh, and it isn't unlikely that we have purchased games that helped fund someone's salary who donated to a prop 8 organization.
Oh, and it isn't unlikely that we have purchased games that helped fund someone's salary who donated to a prop 8 organization.
Odrion said:
I'm sorry, but some of what you say isn't relevant to the issue at hand. You may be indirectly supporting slavery by buying computers, chocolate etc., but that has nothing to do with OSC's anti-homosexuality and boycotting products he supports or is involved with. You seem to assume that just because an individual feels compelled to boycott a certain product that they perceive as morally unjust that they must boycott all products that perceive as morally unjust. But this isn't true. The phrase "pick and choose you fights" exists for a reason.
Well you pointed out that they're all crazy but then went on to talk about how the republicans are especially crazy. Which is incorrect. Both sides spread just as much false shit. Plus your assessment of the people who follow Sarah Palin is off as well. SP stands directly on the pulse of at least 40% of average americans.Asmodai said:
People pretending to be above anything at all is amusing. Pretty improbable to disassociate yourself with human affairs if you're human. I wasn't tryin argue mang, just pointin out.
This has been addressed several times in this thread, by myself and many others. But instead of reading you feel the need to chime in with an obnoxious series of petulant trollish posts.Odrion said:
We know we're all hypocrites in one way or another. But in your world, people who make a conscious effort to be less hypocritical by being more informed in their purchasing decisions are self-important? What misanthropic bile. We know our not buying something has little effect in the greater scope of things. But a little bit is still better than nothing. Your mentality is that you can't do good in everything you do, so you might as well not try to do any good at all. What a sick fucking way of looking at life.
TheDrowningMan
Member
Divvy said:
Exactly!
I can see why people would be confused though, it's an unconventional arrangement - I thought it was a simple case of loosely licensing a story to give it a 'name' when I purchased it, but further reading has revealed the decidedly murkier truth.
cr_blah_blah
Member
woodypop said:
I had some general point about acting out on one situation and ignoring others because you know this particular contributor's finacial agenda and yadda yadda, I wasn't exactly being literal if you can't tell, but I'm sure that's gone round and round by now. Focus on the hyprocrite line as if I wasn't excluding myself though.
Windom Earle
Banned
Ouuuu, I totally forgot about this one. Will buy tomorrow, THANKS FOR REMINDING ME!!!!
SonOfABeep
Banned
A simple answer to this thread.
Nope.
Nope.
Papa
Banned
To OP:
Excuse me if my knowledge of American culture isn't up to speed (I'm not American), but in America, don't people have a right to an opinion just as much as you have a right to be homosexual?
Boycotting a game because of someone's (who isn't even very closely tied to the game) opinions is equivalent to boycotting something because of someone's homosexuality.
And I don't think quoting his "reproductive dysfunction" comment really supports your case. From a purely scientific point of view, homosexuality is a reproductive dysfunction. Whether or not that's a bad thing is up for debate, considering how overpopulated the world is. His other comments and actions are definitely inflammatory and insulting, but overall I think you're taking the issue far too seriously.
It's a damn good game, just buy it and enjoy it! I know I did.
Excuse me if my knowledge of American culture isn't up to speed (I'm not American), but in America, don't people have a right to an opinion just as much as you have a right to be homosexual?
Boycotting a game because of someone's (who isn't even very closely tied to the game) opinions is equivalent to boycotting something because of someone's homosexuality.
And I don't think quoting his "reproductive dysfunction" comment really supports your case. From a purely scientific point of view, homosexuality is a reproductive dysfunction. Whether or not that's a bad thing is up for debate, considering how overpopulated the world is. His other comments and actions are definitely inflammatory and insulting, but overall I think you're taking the issue far too seriously.
It's a damn good game, just buy it and enjoy it! I know I did.
NullPointer
Member
woodypop said:
Everyone IS a hypocrite.