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Should we boycott Shadow Complex?
- Thread starter Coins
- Start date
Tylahedras
Banned
Ender's Game is a very good book, I couldn't care less if the guy who wrote it is an asshole. Same goes for the game.
Well for me I have no problem supporting Shadow Complex, and I don't feel guilty about it. For myself, I don't believe not supporting the gay lifestyle is racist, since unlike a Black Person, Jewish person, Asian person ect, most gays choose that life style, and are not born that way. Why should I feel guilty about being entertained, just becuase that group doens't like that writer or form of entertainment? So if the game is good that all that matters to me. I believe that all that should matter to most gamers.
Mr_Appleby
Member
Ender's Game is one of the most homoerotic books I've ever read. Lots of nuded up boy love.
just sayin'.
just sayin'.
KHarvey16 said:
Basically my stance on this whole thing. There's almost ALWAYS a middle ground.
Beyond that anyway, you're mostly arguing semantics imo. A homosexual couple could very well still call themselves "married" by the strictest definition of the word. Not to mention, they could always still have a personal ceremony/celebration whether it's sanctioned by a church or not (and why would they want it to be so when it's that same organization that's trying to stop what they're trying to accomplish for the most part)
Christian homosexuals? Eh, maybe...
SonOfABeep
Banned
Well my last post in this thread is the same answer I gave before to the question posed in the title.
Nope.
Also this thread is stupid. Boycott popular product that's marginally or artificially associated with a cause in order to gain attention for own cause. Like someone else said, sounds a lot like those hardcore baptists blaming Teletubbies and Harry Potter for all the troubles of society.
Nope.
Also this thread is stupid. Boycott popular product that's marginally or artificially associated with a cause in order to gain attention for own cause. Like someone else said, sounds a lot like those hardcore baptists blaming Teletubbies and Harry Potter for all the troubles of society.
What next? You're not going to buy Trine on PSN because the design director isn't a vegan? Really GAF?
Sure, ignorant and intolerant people suck, but don't make it so much of an issue where it will prevent you from buying/ enjoying a video game. Come on people. Let's not be dumb.
Sure, ignorant and intolerant people suck, but don't make it so much of an issue where it will prevent you from buying/ enjoying a video game. Come on people. Let's not be dumb.
It's like shooting fish in a bucketKeikoku said:
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Well said.RadarScope1 said:
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I dunno, I think it's pretty good to see people have strong enough principles that they can't be bought off of them by a little piece of entertainment fluff.-PXG- said:
indigo-cyclops
Member
I bought it, I love it, and I support the team that put thousands of hours into this gem. Fuck what ya heard!
Papa
Banned
soldat7 said:Have you ever driven from one end of Texas to the other? Have you continued on into New Mexico, Arizona, and Southern California? This world is not overpopulated, we just have a distribution problem.
I've never actually been to America, so no, but I guess that's true at the moment :lol
But if the population keeps rising as it has for the last century then future generations are doomed.
To me it seems silly to purposefully boycott a product because you share a difference of opinion on a completely unrelated subject.
By buying an Orson Scott Card product you are in no way endorsing homophobia, and Shadow Complex in particular is fairly removed from the man to the point where his involvement seems minimal at best. If you're worried that putting even a penny into his pocket goes to some anti-gay coffer I think your intentions, while noble, are misguided.
You are paying for a service or product. Money changes hands, you come out for the better (assuming you like the product) and so do they. I don't think that anyone, even if they're racist homophobic bastards should go unpaid for their hard work, and for no reason should that product be marred or related to their personal outlooks on life. If you bought a cheeseburger from a resturant, and you knew the waiter serving you was a bigot off the job who ran homophobic rallies would you refuse to eat there?
These kinds of people, deplorable as they may be, are unavoidable. You will give them money. Maybe at the end of the day though it doesn't matter, because they deserve it for their hard work. Of course there are also a huge number of staff on a product like Shadow Complex. Who's to say for every homophobe there isn't some or even multiple gay guys working on the game who would love to see it succeed but are watching people boycott their game because some asshole who's writing a novel in the universe showed up at their office for one day.
By buying an Orson Scott Card product you are in no way endorsing homophobia, and Shadow Complex in particular is fairly removed from the man to the point where his involvement seems minimal at best. If you're worried that putting even a penny into his pocket goes to some anti-gay coffer I think your intentions, while noble, are misguided.
You are paying for a service or product. Money changes hands, you come out for the better (assuming you like the product) and so do they. I don't think that anyone, even if they're racist homophobic bastards should go unpaid for their hard work, and for no reason should that product be marred or related to their personal outlooks on life. If you bought a cheeseburger from a resturant, and you knew the waiter serving you was a bigot off the job who ran homophobic rallies would you refuse to eat there?
These kinds of people, deplorable as they may be, are unavoidable. You will give them money. Maybe at the end of the day though it doesn't matter, because they deserve it for their hard work. Of course there are also a huge number of staff on a product like Shadow Complex. Who's to say for every homophobe there isn't some or even multiple gay guys working on the game who would love to see it succeed but are watching people boycott their game because some asshole who's writing a novel in the universe showed up at their office for one day.
ShockingAlberto
Member
...that's the point.DancingJesus said:
Do you know what words mean?
I bought the game and love it, but I can understand why people might not want to buy it if they feel that strongly about the issue.
For me, however, I would argue that if we fixate on differences between our opinions and those of others and use them as an argument to demonize (which I recognize is something that OSC is himself guilty of) then we could likely find a reason to demonize just about anyone. It seems to me that this growing focus on choosing sides and screaming at those that disagree (turn on Foxnews or MSNBC and it's the same crap from a different side of the political spectrum) is not particularly helpful or healthy.
Does OSC have some odd views? Absolutely. Does that make him evil incarnate? No. It makes him a person with flaws just like anyone else.
I also wonder if OSC even earns royalties or if he was simply paid a flat amount for his work on establishing the general setting. It would be ironic if there was a boycott for a product which wasn't netting him any royalties anyway. If he is getting paid I would venture to say that it would be less than a nickel per copy sold, and unless he's spending most of his income on his political activism I doubt that it would impact anything in the long run.
For me, however, I would argue that if we fixate on differences between our opinions and those of others and use them as an argument to demonize (which I recognize is something that OSC is himself guilty of) then we could likely find a reason to demonize just about anyone. It seems to me that this growing focus on choosing sides and screaming at those that disagree (turn on Foxnews or MSNBC and it's the same crap from a different side of the political spectrum) is not particularly helpful or healthy.
Does OSC have some odd views? Absolutely. Does that make him evil incarnate? No. It makes him a person with flaws just like anyone else.
I also wonder if OSC even earns royalties or if he was simply paid a flat amount for his work on establishing the general setting. It would be ironic if there was a boycott for a product which wasn't netting him any royalties anyway. If he is getting paid I would venture to say that it would be less than a nickel per copy sold, and unless he's spending most of his income on his political activism I doubt that it would impact anything in the long run.
EternalGamer
Banned
RadarScope1 said:
Honestly, I don't think there is much more chance that your purchase will facilitate more of this type of game on XBLA than there is that your boycott would have created an environment that made it less likely for game developers to associate with someone like Orson Scott Card.
Really it is less about the demonstrably outcome and more about principles and how much or how little those principles come into play in this particular scenario. I can certainly see the argument that Card is not the primary player or that the game itself is not promoting these views. On the other hand, as I and others have pointed out, this seems more than a "fly by night" association this company has with Card. This really doesn't seem to be a cut and dry scenario on either side.
Personally, I bought the game before I ever heard about these issues and I'm enjoying it. But I don't know what I would have done had I heard about this first. Frankly, there are FAR more good games than I have time and money to buy and purchase, so I wouldn't see it as that big of a sacrifice to potentially pass over this one due to the potentially shady political associations given how many alternatives there are that don't present me with that potential moral quandary (regardless of how minor of a moral quandary it might be).
Again, I would never consider this particular scenario a major issue, but if you can buy something else you would enjoy instead and completely avoid the problem, why not do that? Btw, for anyone who may be facing this scenario, I highly recommend Splosion Man.
euro stalker
Member
Truant said:
idd :lol
EternalGamer
Banned
kmfdmpig said:
I don't need someone to agree with me on all issues to do business with them. If someone disagrees with me on healthcare reform or environmental policies that's one thing. I don't even care if they have very different social values than I do and think that the way I live my life is "wrong." But when they actively try to promote legislation that would limit my civil rights or the rights of others, I think that is a very different scenario.
This is not an "all or nothing" thing. You don't have to agree with everything someone promotes to support what they produce. But there should be some boundary (whatever that boundary is) where you say they step over the line and you aren't willing to support someone who promote those ideas. For me those boundaries are any type of discrimination based on race, gender, religion, age, or sexual orientation.
Bryant
Member
I mean when it really boils down to it, I could find a reason to not buy anyone's stuff by critiquing the people associated with it. Some people are racist, some are homophobic, some are anti-establishment, etc etc. But if you want to do what the OP says, then I suggest you apply this to all future purchases.
Even better, I have some suggestions for you. Do not ever go to any of these places: AutoZone, Cracker Barrel, Dish Network, Dominos Pizza, ExxonMobil, Meijer, Salvation Army, and last but not least.... Wal-Mart Stores Inc. These are all companies that do not support gay rights in any way....
Your move Coins. If you can convince me you don't ever use walmart, I wont buy this game.
Even better, I have some suggestions for you. Do not ever go to any of these places: AutoZone, Cracker Barrel, Dish Network, Dominos Pizza, ExxonMobil, Meijer, Salvation Army, and last but not least.... Wal-Mart Stores Inc. These are all companies that do not support gay rights in any way....
Your move Coins. If you can convince me you don't ever use walmart, I wont buy this game.
EternalGamer
Banned
Bryant said:
Actually, I didn't shop at Walmart for nearly 2 years (despite living in a smallish town in Mississippi) because I found enough of their business policies abberant. But they began to change enough of these that I reconsidered (I'm no idealist, if they show a move in the right direction, I'll reward a company with my business).
But even if they don't offer benefits, I don't think that is quite the same thing as the level of hate in that screed by Card. I never heard any of the higher ups in Walmart refer to me as a "tragic genetic mix up." In fact, even if it is just lip service, Walmart has actively tried to market to the gay community. Which automatically puts them in a very different category than the "gays are inferior" type of bigotry we are getting from Card.
TheHeretic
Banned
Mohonky said:
The idea that homosexuality is a choice is right up there with people evolved from monkeys. Its a propaganda piece supposed to "sum up" the entire issue nice and neatly. Both are incorrect, and both are for the most part religiously motivated.
EternalGamer
Banned
The Steve said:
I know you are just trying to be "In your face" and grab attention, but I'm curious. Do you just automatically decide to buy ANYTHING that someone brings up the topic of boycotting or is it the promotion of homophobia in particular get you so excited?
Stoney Mason
Banned
Mohonky said:
While I think boycotting the game is fairly useless and silly some people consider it highly insulting that their sexuality is framed in context of a "choice" for an entire group of people and depending on how aggressively a person starts pushing that idea yes, It's definitely ban worthy from what I've seen on both sides of the forum although obviously this issue doesn't come up very often on the gaming side.
EternalGamer
Banned
TheHeretic said:
Actually, I'd say it's closer to the 19th century "scientific" believe that blacks have inferior brains. Both that and the idea that homosexuality is non-genetic is easily refutable given the amount of research that has been done on homosexuality in the animal kingdom.
EternalGamer
Banned
Mohonky said:
I believe he was just making a parallel between the idea that homosexuality is choice and the strawman argument some use to say "My great grandmother wasn't a chimpanzee therefore evolution isn't real."