Don't play the dumb here. VR is an accessory for Scorpio. You also can't play games for Kinect without Kinect. On the same console. Same applies to a lot of accessories and there respective games.
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Shuhei Yoshida: Neo won't shorten PS4's lifecycle "PS4 is PS4"
- Thread starter SOR5
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Don't play the dumb here. VR is an accessory for Scorpio. You also can't play games for Kinect without Kinect. On the same console. Same applies to a lot of accessories and there respective games.
Calm Mind
Member
Like all PR, everything is subject to change.
photo courtesy of ZhugeEX https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/745055983072907264/photo/1
photo courtesy of ZhugeEX https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/745055983072907264/photo/1
Why do you guys keep responding to me? Look at what I was responding to: "They want a platform that supports the same games running on devices even less capable than Xbox one and it will be years from now until support it is no longer required."
But that's false, because we know VR games will be coming to Scorpio that more than likely will not be coming to Xbox One. So the idea that companies will still be required to support Xbox One for years to come is false.
So why do you guys keep responding with "Hey, only VR games won't be Xbox One compatible," as if it's contrary to the point I'm trying to make?
Edit: You too c0de.
Thank you. Finally someone with a little clout saying it this time.
Pretty much this.
And those that were worried about this...I never even had this fear. Generations will have a different meaning from now on, thats all.
I see at least 1 spec upgrade per gen from now on.
CheDominik
Member
If this is your argument, why buy anything ever?
Why buy a 2016 car if the 2017 model is coming out?
The answer is pretty simple: People have money to burn and like new shiny things, me included.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Shu's going to protect the loyfe cycle
XB1 - plays XB1 games
Scorpio - XB1 and Scorpio play the same games
Scorpio 2 - Scorpio and Scorpio 2 play the same games. XB1 not supported any longer (although publishers are of course free to do ports if the installed base supports it, just like they still made Fifa on PS3 for ages)
Scorpio 3 - scorpio 2 and scorpio 3 play the same games. Scorpio not supported.
Basically two live consoles at any one time. Each console gets the same 6 years of active support before being dropped for the next one along. Not really that different from the previous approach of a new console every 6 years.
Dangansona
Member
Sweet, repeating what has been obvious since the beginning which will still be misinterpreted and blown out of proportion.
And the other answer is pretty simple, you don't have to the NEO.
And the other answer is pretty simple, you don't have to the NEO.
wasnt everything fine and dandy until ms pulled the scoprio card ? i remember people being happy about initial neo specs
Spider_Jerusalem
Member
Because it's true. Spencer alredy said "every Scorpio game will be compatibile with Xbox One, except VR ones". The fact Scorpio will be supporting a new gaming form/hardware doesn't contrast with the fact that traditional console games (the ones played with a standard controller) will keep being 100% compatible with both consoles.
It's a generational jump in power, but the entire context of what a new generation is just isnt there.
Your accessories arent refreshed
Your existing library isnt refreshed
Its still mandatory to support all the hardware in the same 'family'
The ecosystem isnt refreshed
Even the OS might be completely the same
The only difference is the shape and power of the box in the living room, which is important, but its not all that comes with a new generation.
Father_Brain
Banned
It's *possible*!that they won't lift the PS4 compatibility mandate until Neo 2 or whatever it's called launches in 2019 or so, so I suppose this could be true.
It remains to be seen, but if they make a Neo, Neo 2, Trinity, etc. that are all "still PS4s", this might actually end up being the longest console generation we've seen yet.
I believe they refer to The Singularity as the point at which human lifespans increase to infinity. Perhaps this is the console singularity.
I believe they refer to The Singularity as the point at which human lifespans increase to infinity. Perhaps this is the console singularity.
Like all PR, everything is subject to change.
photo courtesy of ZhugeEX https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/745055983072907264/photo/1
While businessplans do change, that is about the PS3 (which still applies), just like this thread's subject is about the PS4. They can definitely go a different route for the PS5, but I think it makes sense for them to make this promise for the PS4.
I'm going to make the guess this generation is infinite until the architecture dramatically changes from x86 to something else.
Or people have to be extra concrete on about what a new generation even is anymore
Dangansona
Member
Here's how it goes down. PS4 > NEO > PS5 > PS5.5 > PS6 (hopefully) etc etc.
This... actually isn't that outlandish. Sort of like how iPhones are phased out of receiving the latest iOS updates eventually.
The old consoles will need to be ditched at some point or another.
Yes, but there is no vr on Xbox One. VR is nothing official from MS but it is compatible with a VR solution from a different vendor.
By that logic, ps4 isn't even compatible with ps4 and neo is also not compatible with ps4 because there will be games for neo that you can't play on ps4.
Spider_Jerusalem
Member
Yeah, I think that's a reasonable and very likely scenario.
Nocturno999
Member
I wonder if both companies will phase out older models.
ThatStupidLion
Member
so ps5 if still on track for 2018? excellent
Felix Lighter
Member
The best outcome of that lifecycle would be great backwards compatibility for consoles. The PS3/360 -> PS4/XOne transition with games tied to old obsolete, no longer sold hardware isn't going to be something consumers are going to accept, especially with digital purchases becoming more common, as they compare Sony/MS's ecosystems to what they are accustom to.
Because it is intentional. This is a stealth launch under the guise of an inter-generational console. It would be disastrous to come out with a new generation console not even 4 years into the generation, but what happens if you make one and launch it under the Xbone banner? Now it seems more acceptable. MS know what they are doing.
Except cumulative backwards. And all you said is going to fit devs' support.
I can see some supporting all versions during some time. Scorpio 3 will run 3, 2, 1, and One...
Visuals yeah, framerate apparently is a different matter.. There were examples in the past where the PC version of a game had to be limited to 30fps to make the online work on both. At least that's what the developers said.
Its a new generation as much as Neo is a new generation. The only difference is the leaps in power are (as of right now) not as big. They both have the exact same policies going forward regarding library support and compatibility.
I just think there are no more generations anymore, just a regular cycle of getting more powerful and working with technological standards.
Are people just assuming we're going down the route of new console iterations every 3 to 4 years or has it been said? What's stopping this from just being a refresh during a console generation for people who don't want to stick with the same console for 8 years before the ps5 comes out?
Really confused on this whole topic to be honest, haha.
Really confused on this whole topic to be honest, haha.
InfiniteUnrest
Member
I wonder what HDD options we'll have with Neo. Hopefully it will either support 3.5" HDDs out of the box, or work with Nyko Databank, without requiring Nyko to manufacture a Neo specific model. I like the fact I can throw in a 6TB drive right now and store all of my games with a little room to grow.
Look guys. Just answer this one question. Will all Scorpio games be Xbox One compatible?
If you are going to answer with "Yes, but..." or "Yes, except..." then I give up. You guys win. I'm done here.
What about the VR games?
It's almost embarrassing. I thought it's been quite clear.
Like all PR, everything is subject to change.
photo courtesy of ZhugeEX https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/745055983072907264/photo/1
Yeah goes to show that things can change. Look at MS and their various u-turns as a general example.
I actually was under the impression that the PS4's life-cycle would increase because Sony would be reluctant to jump right into the next generation after spending money on the Neo.
Spider_Jerusalem
Member
Which is exactly what Xbox 360 did, coming out 4 years after the OG Xbox. And it wasn't so disastrous after all.
Just answer this one question: are all neo games compatible with ps4?
Sometimes a simple yes or no is not sufficient for an answer.
Spider_Jerusalem
Member
No not all. Just the non-VR ones.
Ive added to the OP that because Sonys policies are unknown after Neo that theres no way of 100% being sure that there will be purely iterations going forward.
What you can be sure of though, is Neo's relation to PS4.
amdb00mer
Member
Sounds great. Cant wait for the NEO.
Question.
Let say Destiny 2 comes in 1080p 60fps on Neo and for the PS4 they have it 1080p 30fps.
Can those PS4 users still play against me with Neo? I have no idea how this works
Yes. Just like on PC, somebody with a high end rig able to run games at 4k and 60 fps is still able to play against somebody with a rig only running a game at 1080p and 30 fps. Would they have an advantage? Yes. I can see some developers lowering the resolution for the PS4/X1 version to reach a solid 60fps to make sure nobody has a real edge in multiplayer games.
I think they can just integrate an Xbox One mode into Scorpio 2 / 3 / 4 ...
But of course Xbox One won´t play Scorpio 2 games any longer (= Scorpio 1 becomes to new base model)
recklesscognition
Member
I still think they need to get the VR box into the actual console. But that would lead to too many SKUs for the VR itself I guess.
Kutaragi loved the Matrix
Calm Mind
Member
Highly unlikely given what we already know.
We should not take this at face value IMO. He is only saying that to reassure people right now about something about the future he can't possibly know.
Last gen was a long anomaly, we are not going to get a gen as long as that.
A lot of fans may be mad at MS for what they perceive as a bad message and praise Sony for a good message, but I feel both are just PR lying.
Neo will start as PS4.5 and will evolve into the next gen. NEO exclusive games will be made, count on that. Developer will want to take advantage of that extra juice without the expense of the normal specs. It would be stupid for them not to do so, but it would be stupid of Sony to flat out come out and say that. Same with Scorpio.
Both new system will come out 2017 or maybe 2018 and they may follow that PR lie of not having anything exclusive, but a year in you'll see them popping up. I guarantee it and anyone that doesn't believes this needs to consider it.
Last gen was a long anomaly, we are not going to get a gen as long as that.
A lot of fans may be mad at MS for what they perceive as a bad message and praise Sony for a good message, but I feel both are just PR lying.
Neo will start as PS4.5 and will evolve into the next gen. NEO exclusive games will be made, count on that. Developer will want to take advantage of that extra juice without the expense of the normal specs. It would be stupid for them not to do so, but it would be stupid of Sony to flat out come out and say that. Same with Scorpio.
Both new system will come out 2017 or maybe 2018 and they may follow that PR lie of not having anything exclusive, but a year in you'll see them popping up. I guarantee it and anyone that doesn't believes this needs to consider it.
I've had a PS4 since launch day and am still kind of blown away at the visuals in games. So I'm not hurting for a graphical upgrade like many on GAF, but just KNOWING it'll be possible to play with better frame rates and resolutions (plus whatever else gets unlocked feature-wise for the Neo modes in games, if anything) will be enough for me to upgrade. With the trade in or sale of my existing PS4, another $200 or so is a fair price to me.
I agree that there will be more of an exclusive experience on the Neo EVENTUALLY, as opposed to just 'better frame rates and/or resolution'. I suspect Neo modes will exist in games where different features appear (or you get qualitative improvements, like more enemies on a field, or a larger selection of high-end maps or something in a shooter, etc.). And yes, eventually, the cynic in me believes there will one day be Neo-exclusive games or software available.
I suspect it'll be very much like the DSi and New 3DS.
I don't know what more Sony can do since they've told you they are planning to sell one game, it runs on both platforms, both games will have the same core experience, the PS4 High End version will be prettier, and the life cycle of the PS4 is not shortened at all by Neo.
They've spelled out their plans in plain English multiple times.
All the theories in this thread about how the generations are going to drastically change are super weird, to me this seems about the same as the N64 RAM pack in terms of how it impacts things but it's a whole new box instead of an add-on.
Edit - The fact that they are publicly calling it PS4 High End and not Neo is super important to illustrating how they view this device, you won't have exclusives because the device itself is still considered a PS4, not its own thing (Though yes I know some games required the RAM pack so this is a flawed comparison, but I never said it was identical)..
They've spelled out their plans in plain English multiple times.
All the theories in this thread about how the generations are going to drastically change are super weird, to me this seems about the same as the N64 RAM pack in terms of how it impacts things but it's a whole new box instead of an add-on.
Edit - The fact that they are publicly calling it PS4 High End and not Neo is super important to illustrating how they view this device, you won't have exclusives because the device itself is still considered a PS4, not its own thing (Though yes I know some games required the RAM pack so this is a flawed comparison, but I never said it was identical)..
That's because MS was able to show people the power of next gen and became disruptive to their benefit. It doesn't work like that anymore.
My guess is that they will drop support for ps4 when ps5 comes out but keep support for ps4neo. They will just keep iterating on new consoles while keeping the same technology so games are carried over.
Example
Ps4/ps4 neo will play all ps4 games.
Ps4 will phase out, ps4neo/ps5 will play all ps5 games.
That is what I think they are trying to do.
Example
Ps4/ps4 neo will play all ps4 games.
Ps4 will phase out, ps4neo/ps5 will play all ps5 games.
That is what I think they are trying to do.
Glorified G
Member
Who is paying for online gaming on the PS3?
The backlash and inevitable criticisms from the press, PlayStation fans, and the retail space will dictate how ambitious Sony is with future console iterations. Neo is about as safe as it gets, but the logic behind the component choices make sense.
I just hope whenever these executives use language such as "High End / Premium" PS4 they aren't referencing an expensive machine. PS4's success was in no short part due to it being a machine that punches far above its weight class in the context of price
erormance ratio. Neo, if the rumored specs are to be believed, should be making profit with ease at $399. But I hope they don't take Scorpio lightly. Consumers are more educated than ever, and if Sony thinks they can get a free pass by trying to dole out an uber expensive PlayStation which shares the same part's as its predecessor in a historic first move into the iterative console space -they'll really burn those bridges they've worked so hard to build back.
On top of it, their number one competitor in the console space appears to be going for broke in the most ambitious console ever created. The Neo could be the PS2, or it could end up the Dreamcast. On top of all this? PC gaming is getting cheaper, easier, and more popular than ever.
PlayStation in 2016 has some of the most charismatic, smart, and forward thinking people working under its umbrella. I just hope it doesn't fall victim to the Corporate Sony of yore that managed to create the Qualia, ES Premium, and uber expensive electronics that had no right being their respect price points.
PlayStation is a mainstream brand - and that's whats been the secret to it's success. Look at the failures of any of the myriad of Sony's high end attempts- and you'll see that the high end strategy almost never works for a company not named after a fruit.
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