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[SlimySnake]

lol the Doom and gloom among certain posters is laughable. Console generations need to exist for console manufacturers like Sony to make money. Most people are not going to buy the Neo. They will wait for the next console gen. And that's why it's in Sony's interest to release a PS5.

Anyone who thinks PS5 will be PS Neo 2 is being a bit paranoid. Devs are not going to keep making games to support a 1.84 Tflop GPU. At some point they will stop. And at that point they are not going to make games designed on the base specs of a 4.2 Tflop Neo. They will make cross gen games at the start of the gen just like they did this gen, but after a year or two, no one is going to want to be limited by a 4.2 tflop GPU when they have a 10-12 tflop next GPU to put to use.

if anything, Neo will increase the PS4's lifespan. Dont expect the PS5 in 2019. It will come 2020 at the latest.

 

[Malcolm9]

Which is exactly what Xbox 360 did, coming out 4 years after the OG Xbox. And it wasn't so disastrous after all.

Because it was getting trounced by the success of the PS2, despite being the more powerful system.

I can't see the Scorpio making a big dent into the PS4 install base at all to be honest, most will migrate to the Neo and then the nexr Playstation console after.

 

[Night Angel]

Just answer this one question: are all neo games compatible with ps4?
Sometimes a simple yes or no is not sufficient for an answer.

Yes.

Do you have any evidence that suggests otherwise? From all I've seen, the Neo is a PS4 with the same exact library.

 

[Portugeezer]

That is the best move. In ~3 - 4 years they can then have a big "PS5" reveal, everyone will be excited and hyped for it, much more than an "upgrade".

 

[thuway]

BTW if anyone hasn't seen it- Colin Moriarty on PS I Love You absolutely eviscerated Neo. I don't agree with every thing he's saying, but I seriously think Sony needs to take two steps back and get their messaging, hardware, and price points in check.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KDYsXK7f-0&t=23m43s

If he's any indication of the response mainstream media, gamers, and the wider market will respond- the idea of a "Premium PlayStation" might do more damage than it does good.

On a personal note- I like the idea of Neo, I just think that it can't be more than $399 and Sony should try and minimize the power gap between it and Scorpio with clock modifications as much as they can.

 

[Paz]

Just answer this one question: are all neo games compatible with ps4?
Sometimes a simple yes or no is not sufficient for an answer.

Sony have already said Yes definitively on multiple occasions. There are no such thing as a Neo games, it is a PS4.

 

[MogCakes]

So they aren't abandoning the concept of generations just yet it would seem.

 

[@Wreck]

So they aren't abandoning the concept of generations just yet it would seem.

they will be extending it

 

[thuway]

So they aren't abandoning the concept of generations just yet it would seem.

Sony won't. The idea of generations will exist because we have some pretty significant bars that technology hasn't yet gotten close to achieving. Voxel based rendering, universal global illumination, >144 FPS, Ray Tracing - etc. All of this stuff requires an entirely new "Generation". It all seems improbable, but just thirty years ago we were play NES Mario - and now we living in a world where we have true VR gaming.

Also- plenty of universities and technology firms have been claiming they've been on the verge of a "breakthrough" in computing. Whenever this does happen - we'll get those quantum leaps of performance that we've been aching to see for the past 20 years.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Sony won't. The idea of generations will exist because we have some pretty large rendering techniques that technology hasn't yet gotten close to rendering. Voxel based rendering, universal global illumination, 4K resolutions, >60 FPS, Ray Tracing - etc. All of this stuff requires an entirely new "Generation".

Also- plenty of universities and technology firms have been claiming they've been on the verge of a "breakthrough" in computing. Whenever this does happen - we'll get those quantum leaps of performance that we've been aching to see for the past 20 years.

I guess the main concern is whether or not Neo will be forward compatible to the PS5 much like PS4 is forward compatible to Neo. Hopefully Sony's plan beyond Neo is addressed in the Neo reveal. I think it's a really important thing to address.

 

[get2sammyb]

BTW if anyone hasn't seen it- Colin Moriarty on PS I Love You absolutely eviscerated Neo. I don't agree with every thing he's saying, but I seriously think Sony needs to take two steps back and get their messaging, hardware, and price points in check.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KDYsXK7f-0&t=23m43s

If he's any indication of the response mainstream media, gamers, and the wider market will respond- the idea of a "Premium PlayStation" might do more damage than it does good.

Moriarty's schtick on this has been obnoxious from the off. He started out blithering on about how it's a terrible idea, and now Microsoft has suckered him with the Scorpio announcement when he doesn't really understand the specs.

He should hush about it until it's actually revealed, but I fear he's already made up his mind about it and is just going to go about defending his position from now on.

 

[SolidSnakex]

BTW if anyone hasn't seen it- Colin Moriarty on PS I Love You absolutely eviscerated Neo. I don't agree with every thing he's saying, but I seriously think Sony needs to take two steps back and get their messaging, hardware, and price points in check.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KDYsXK7f-0&t=23m43s

If he's any indication of the response mainstream media, gamers, and the wider market will respond- the idea of a "Premium PlayStation" might do more damage than it does good.

On a personal note- I like the idea of Neo, I just think that it can't be more than $399 and Sony should try and minimize the power gap between it and Scorpio with clock modifications as much as they can.

A big problem with his entire argument is that he seems to think that the Neo/4K is only a tiny stepup from the PS4 when it's not. It's a big steup from it. Obviously not as big as the Scropio, but the Neo/4K isn't intended to be Sony's next console either.

 

[dose]

Because it's true. Spencer alredy said "every Scorpio game will be compatibile with Xbox One, except VR ones".

He never said that in MS's e3 conference, y'know, the thing everybody was watching. Very miselading.

 

[Ushay]

You can say it as many times as you like. Scorpio is a new generation.

Then why will there be no exclusives. Until that happens it only serves to lengthen the generation. In fact I believe the entire idea behind generations has changed, instead we have overlap between high end and mainstream hardware.

 

[Pandy]

Sounds less like a Scorpio and more like a slim +

Pretty much.

 

[Gurish]

For me it sounds like Sony will continue traditional generations, only there will be a mid gen upgrade to help those who wants thier games to keep looking and running great, but it sounds like there will be a traditional PS5 with backward compatibility and PS4/Neo won't play PS5 games, unlike what MS has in mind.

I believe Scorpio will play XB2 games unlike Sony's NEO.

 

[Bad_Boy]

so odd hearing all these interviews about a product not even formally announced.

cmon sony.

 

[thuway]

I guess the main concern is whether or not Neo will be forward compatible to the PS5 much like PS4 is forward compatible to Neo. Hopefully Sony's plan beyond Neo is addressed in the Neo reveal. I think it's a really important thing to address.

My biggest concern is Sony transforming PlayStation into the clusterfuck that is the "Sony Premium" line. The same chuckleheads that put out a $1,700 portable mini-Disc player, and a $11,000 CRT television in 2003- can easily try and infuse that price-no object mentality into PlayStation.

PlayStation has been largely successful because of it's confluence of first-rate content, harware quality, and impeccable priceerformance ratio. I just don't want Sony to try and rest on those old school laurels of high-end/premium/obscenely expensive retail products because virtually every time Sony has tried this- they've failed miserably.

 

[Zedox]

XB1 - plays XB1 games
Scorpio - XB1 and Scorpio play the same games
Scorpio 2 - Scorpio and Scorpio 2 play the same games. XB1 not supported any longer (although publishers are of course free to do ports if the installed base supports it, just like they still made Fifa on PS3 for ages)
Scorpio 3 - scorpio 2 and scorpio 3 play the same games. Scorpio not supported.

Basically two live consoles at any one time. Each console gets the same 6 years of active support before being dropped for the next one along. Not really that different from the previous approach of a new console every 6 years.

This is exactly what I think will happen and I'm totally ok with that. We will know how it is when they name the next Xbox. If it is Xbox 4...shit will be crazy and "next-gen" will be thrown around like crazy. If it is like Xbox One 4K...then people will think they are all of the same "gen".

 

[get2sammyb]

My biggest concern is Sony transforming PlayStation into the clusterfuck that is the "Sony Premium" line. The same chuckleheads that put out a $1,700 portable mini-Disc player, and a $11,000 CRT television in 2003- can easily try and infuse that price-no object mentality into PlayStation.

PlayStation has been largely successful because of it's confluence of first-rate content, harware quality, and impeccable priceerformance ratio. I just don't want Sony to try and rest on those old school laurels of high-end/premium/obscenely expensive retail products because virtually every time Sony has tried this- they've failed miserably.

Sony's barely put a foot wrong with PlayStation since 2013. Why do you think the same people that masterminded the PS4's launch are suddenly going to fall flat on their face?

 

[mrklaw]

Except cumulative backwards. And all you said is going to fit devs' support.

I can see some supporting all versions during some time. Scorpio 3 will run 3, 2, 1, and One...

of course I think we'll get BC. I didn't mean Scorpio 2 wouldn't play XB1 games. I meant that XB1 woudln't play scorpio 2 games.

Although the use of a common architecture could mean that developers/publishers could make the (now separate) XB1 version much more simply, so I think even if the platform holder didn't require support for more than two consoles at a time, publishers could easily bring out XB1/PS4 versions of games for that long tail of (likely licensed) titles.

 

[wapplew]

A big problem with his entire argument is that he seems to think that the Neo/4K is only a tiny stepup from the PS4 when it's not. It's a big steup from it. Obviously not as big as the Scropio, but the Neo/4K isn't intended to be Sony's next console either.

I think he is like me, don't like half gen premium thing, ok with new gen thing.
Scorpio is closer to new gen, but they said no exclusive, making it a premium half gen by definition with almost new gen spec.

 

[thuway]

Sony's barely put a foot wrong with PlayStation since 2013. Why do you think the same people that masterminded the PS4's launch are suddenly going to fall flat on their face?

I don't think they will flat on their face, but I do think the wording leaves a lot to be concerned about. Whenever I hear vocabulary like: "high end", "premium" - I have to cringe a tiny bit.

This is the some corporation that just last month released a $550 smartphone that is powered by Snapdragon 650. This level of hubris and stupidity can easily bleed into the PlayStation division.

I'm not saying it will happen, but it is worth noting and keeping in the back of your mind. Sony's reflection of it's own brand has made some pretty foolish pricing gaffes over the years.

 

[autoduelist]

Yes, that's the idea. Same player base/infrastructure. Neo can not have extra features, but can have extended features (so you may see 4 player split screen on Neo vs 2 player on PS4, but not split screen on Neo vs no split screen on PS4).

That's just marketing verbiage. You can just as easily say 'PS4 allows 1 local player, Neo 'extends' to 4'.

What I mean, is that it's pretty simple to 'word' any feature to sound like an 'extension' and not an 'extra' if you want.

-The PS4 has 10 enemies on the screen at a time, the Neo 'extends' that to 20.
-The PS4 has dynamic lighting, the Neo 'extends' that to dynamic weather as well.
-The PS4 has destructible walls, the Neo 'extends' that to completely destructible environments.

If they allow the Neo to 'extend' features, you can bet your bottom dollar we will quickly see significant differences in games if the power differential is there.

This is going to get ugly imo, as Neo owners complain PS4 owners are 'holding everything back' and PS4 owners complain about poorly optimized games and missing features ["non-extended features", lol]. Consoles have long been at odds with iterative design and trying to combine them will have some extreme growing pains, imo.

 

[Slaythe]

I don't think PS console cycles are going to die. When it's time for the PS5, the PS4 is going to be dropped. It has to be dropped because the PS4 will just weigh it down.

Is that a joke ?
We are STILL getting PS3 versions of many games.......

If ps5 also has PC architecture, that means porting to ps4 is piss easy. I don't see it being phased out any time soon. Especially not with a thing like the Neo.

Like the neo would only live 2 or 3 years despite being a full price new hardware ? Nah bruh.

 

[jroc74]

Yes.

Do you have any evidence that suggests otherwise? From all I've seen, the Neo is a PS4 with the same exact library.

Sony have already said Yes definitively on multiple occasions. There are no such thing as a Neo games, it is a PS4.

Yup. Its called Neo patches and enhancements. I bet we see game covers like Move, Kinect covers were designed. We dont know if MS will do the same thing for XBO.

Thats why as of right now I dont think we can call the Neo and Scorpio the same thing. I'm in the camp that believes the Scorpio is MS's next gen console until they talk about something similar to Neo patches, enhancements. Seeing what they did with B/C tho....I think they can do something similar.

Spec wise is a whole other can of worms....lol. Just talking about their plans for Scorpio.

And ppl bringing up VR games make a valid point. Even if the experience is better on Neo, there is still an experience to be had on PS4. I dont know if we can same the same about XBO and VR.

 

[Nightengale]

I don't think they will flat on their face, but I do think the wording leaves a lot to be concerned about. Whenever I hear vocabulary like: "high end", "premium" - I have to cringe a tiny bit.

This is the some corporation that just last month released a $550 smartphone that is powered by Snapdragon 650. This level of hubris and stupidity can easily bleed into the PlayStation division.

I'm not saying it will happen, but it is worth noting and keeping in the back of your mind. Sony's reflection of it's own brand has made some pretty foolish pricing gaffes over the years.

For someone who's relying on the details of Osiris's leaks to assert some of your points, you're betraying the very position of what those details tell us in Sony's discomfort of pricing it too high.

The whole point of it being called a high-end PS4 is very, very simple once you take away your concerned perspective on it.

Sony's primary interest at this point in time, is to reassert that Neo IS A CURRENT GENERATION PRODUCT. Neo will be a product with the PS4 name on it. It is not a PS5, not a shift into a no-generation cycle, but a PS4 with better specs.

 

[mrklaw]

I don't think they will flat on their face, but I do think the wording leaves a lot to be concerned about. Whenever I hear vocabulary like: "high end", "premium" - I have to cringe a tiny bit.

This is the some corporation that just last month released a $550 smartphone that is powered by Snapdragon 650. This level of hubris and stupidity can easily bleed into the PlayStation division.

I'm not saying it will happen, but it is worth noting and keeping in the back of your mind. Sony's reflection of it's own brand has made some pretty foolish pricing gaffes over the years.

Its just marketing. 'premium' and 'high end' just means 'don't worry if its expensive, you can always buy the PS4 it plays the same games'.

people need to stop fretting so much.

 

[link1201]

...

And ppl bringing up VR games make a valid point. Even if the experience is better on Neo, there is still an experience to be had on PS4. I dont know if we can same the same about XBO and VR.

Without extra hardware?

 

[thuway]

reassert that Neo IS A CURRENT GENERATION PRODUCT.[/B] Neo will be a product with the PS4 name on it. It is not a PS5, not a shift into a no-generation cycle, but a PS4 with better specs.

Its just marketing. 'premium' and 'high end' just means 'don't worry if its expensive, you can always buy the PS4 it plays the same games'.

people need to stop fretting so much.

Agreed. I'm just passionate and am using historical context to support my arguments. I hope we get a good price point and performance indices from the Neo thats all. ^_^

 

[get2sammyb]

I don't think they will flat on their face, but I do think the wording leaves a lot to be concerned about. Whenever I hear vocabulary like: "high end", "premium" - I have to cringe a tiny bit.

This is the some corporation that just last month released a $550 smartphone that is powered by Snapdragon 650. This level of hubris and stupidity can easily bleed into the PlayStation division.

I'm not saying it will happen, but it is worth noting and keeping in the back of your mind. Sony's reflection of it's own brand has made some pretty foolish pricing gaffes over the years.

But they proved with the PS4 that they're not going to repeat those mistakes? I don't know, maybe I'm giving the current team at the top of PlayStation too much credit, but they've shown time and time again over the past three years that they understand the market.

I just don't know why those same people would look at what they've achieved with PS4, ruminate on the success -- and sweep it all aside because of "hubris".

They've proven they're not idiots over there. It's why Moriarty's sudden scepticism baffles me, too. He's watched the generation play out just as closely as we have, and he knows just as well as everyone else that they "get it" over there.

I'm not sure why he or anyone else would suddenly start doubting that until they mess things up. It'll happen eventually, but I can't see it with this current crop of executives -- I really can't.

 

[c0de]

Yes.

Do you have any evidence that suggests otherwise? From all I've seen, the Neo is a PS4 with the same exact library.

So how do you play a vr neo game on a vanilla ps4? You can't, unless you buy psvr. The only difference is that vr is not available to Xbox One. But the games are still tied to an accessory, thus they are not really tied to the console.

 

[LukasTaves]

So will Microsoft be rejecting VR games that don't run on Xbox One? If something like The Brookhaven Experiment or Job Simulator wants to be on Scorpio, Microsoft is going to say no, unless you get it running on Xbox One too?

What does that have to do with it being a new generation?

Ms never promised VR games on Xbone, nor they did a xbone specific headset to try to get around its limitations compared to VR on pc.

Having said that, Ms haven't announced anything yet, but they added support fot multiple VR head sets on their universal platform, so perhaps they will allow xbone to use it too and make a requirement for devs to support it, though I think it's a bit unlikely giving that the audience just wouldn't be there.

 

[Nightengale]

Agreed. I'm just passionate and am using historical context to support my arguments. I hope we get a good price point and performance indices from the Neo thats all. ^_^

Honest, not everything needs to be some form of "company must respond to actions of company X"

4.2 TF is not as big as a leap as 6TF, but the reality is Sony's direction is that they are ultimately going to constrain the potential of the Neo since they're mandating no-exclusive games whatsoever. Same with Scorpio. Aside from VR which is probably going to be Scorpio-exclusive, the full potential of the 6TF will not be tapped until both companies take off the lids of the no-exclusives portion of the hardware.

Sony has decided that they're sticking with generations, and that in-between generations, the leaps will be whatever they feel is suitable to match the performance of the base hardware, the mid-gen hardware until it is time for the generation to move on to a new number. In that respect, what they have with the Neo is fine, since they don't seem to be treating this like the leap that MS is positioning Scorpio is.

Scorpio is being marketed and established for now to not be a new generation, with the exclusivity locks, but the power leap is more substantial because they want to target 4K and high-end VR. We'll see how those aspects pan out, but for now it's hard to tell.

 

[valkillmore]

Sounds good to me. Won't be able to pass on that upgrade.

 

[Colonel Nasty]

I don't think he's correct, if Neo is just PS4 then I can't imagine them putting out a third PS4 but I also can't imagine them letting Scorpio have the power gap for 3 years either assuming this yen lasts as long as the last one.

 

[MuttsAndMuscles]

The PS4 is going to be three years old this fall, so I would guess it has another 2-3 years before it gets phased out.

Minimum, depending on what you mean by "phased out." Slowly drop the number of games coming to the console? Sure. Becoming completely obscure? Nah.

 

[DieH@rd]

so ps5 if still on track for 2018? excellent

Late 2019 is my guess. Good 6 years.

With some great late-gen games, I could accept even PS5 coming out in 2020.

 

[Valhalla Rapids]

Ps4 neo is ps4.
Xbox Scorpio is Xbox One.

Neither company is ending a life cycle. They're only enriching it.

but not really tho /s

 

[Night Angel]

So how do you play a vr neo game on a vanilla ps4? You can't, unless you buy psvr. The only difference is that vr is not available to Xbox One. But the games are still tied to an accessory, thus they are not really tied to the console.

VR is its own platform, silly. You need a PSVR to play VR on the Neo as well.

The point people are making is that even with the accessory you couldn't play the same library on both the XB1 and the Scorpio while you can on the PS4/Neo.

You can arbitrarily/semantically try to redefine the argument, but that's the point people were making. Already we know this console will have games that the XB1 won't, and it's still 18 months out.

 

[darkinstinct]

You can say it as many times as you like. Scorpio is a new generation.

Microsoft says it is not. And after everything I heard so far I agree.

 

[jroc74]

Without extra hardware?

PSVR?

Did I miss something about the Rift or Vive being able to work on XBO? Asking a serious question.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Yeah I think Neo releases this year at $400 and the specs are whatever Sony can put in to make a modest profit day one. Then again I'm not sure $500 will be a turn off for people since regular Ps4 is there as well for $300 or less. I personally want a close to Scorpio $500 'Neo because I just like 60fps games. But whatever is best for the market Sony should do.

I would have liked it a better CPU, but when it's all said and done, I just want to play great games man. If the support stays on PS,(looks like it will) that's where I'll be gaming. I'm actually pretty excited to upgrade and have better performance for some of my older games.

And Horizon at 60fps is almost turning me on lol...that's all I want out of Neo.

 

[TetraGenesis]

Was that ever a concern? If anything these iterations will lengthen the lifespan. I seems like that was the whole point.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Is that a joke ?
We are STILL getting PS3 versions of many games.......

If ps5 also has PC architecture, that means porting to ps4 is piss easy. I don't see it being phased out any time soon. Especially not with a thing like the Neo.

Like the neo would only live 2 or 3 years despite being a full price new hardware ? Nah bruh.

It's not going to be any different than previous gens. You'll get a few years of devs still making cross-gen games before completely moving over to the new console. Yes, there are still a handful of developers doing that, but it's certainly not a lot. It's primarily sports games and mid-tier Japanese games. But when the PS5 comes there will be a point where those games are only playable on the PS5. Just like now we've reached a point where games like CoD and Battlefield aren't made for the PS3/360 anymore.

 

[wapplew]

Microsoft says it is not. And after everything I heard so far I agree.

I don't know why MS want this gen last longer, this only limit Scorpio potential.
Their fans base are ready to move on, just listen carefully, no one going to complaint if Scorpio is Xbox 2.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

I wonder if Sony is going to go for the letter scheme just like Apple and Microsoft and call it Playstation 4s or maybe a special character instead and call it, Playstation 4+.

Good naming will decide the fate of this console rather than specs imo.

If Sony makes the mistake like Nintendo did with the Wii U, it's over.

 

[darkinstinct]

For someone who's relying on the details of Osiris's leaks to assert some of your points, you're betraying the very position of what those details tell us in Sony's discomfort of pricing it too high.

The whole point of it being called a high-end PS4 is very, very simple once you take away your concerned perspective on it.

Sony's primary interest at this point in time, is to reassert that Neo IS A CURRENT GENERATION PRODUCT. Neo will be a product with the PS4 name on it. It is not a PS5, not a shift into a no-generation cycle, but a PS4 with better specs.

To be fair, what Microsoft and Sony call choice and an extension would a generation ago have been called a nextgen console with full backwards compatibility. After three years.

 

[Daft Punk]

Then why will there be no exclusives. Until that happens it only serves to lengthen the generation. In fact I believe the entire idea behind generations has changed, instead we have overlap between high end and mainstream hardware.

Because why would you put exclusives on the system you just released if you are trying to convince people that it's part of the same family of consoles and not a new system? Plus Spencer even went back and said something to the effect of "Well developers can choose to make games exclusive blah blah". Read between the lines people.

 

[The Baron Count]

I can't believe this is really something that they really needed to explain.

The simple fact that all games are compatible is all that we needed to know. Your last gen games don't become next gen games just because you build a more powerful PC. A generational shift happens when the lowest common denominator is redefined and the floor is raised. Then games start being built around the new standard. These new systems are not the new standard, they can never be the new standard unless support is dropped entirely for the old standard and that's not happening. The jump isn't anywhere near big enough to be a full gen leap anyway and that includes the Scorpio. These are systems designed to run the same games, but better.