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Since becoming armed in 2007, Canadian border agents fired guns 18 times

FrankCanada97

Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
Eleven of those times were accidental discharges. Considering we border a gun crazed country, I guess this is good news?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-border-guards-guns-1.4201882

cbsa-use-of-firearms.jpg
Canadian border guards have fired their guns only 18 times since the government equipped them with firearms a decade ago, and 11 of the shots were accidental discharges.
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CBSA officers have drawn a duty firearm 299 times since July 2007.

Jean-Pierre Fortin, national president of the Customs and Immigration Union that represents border agents, said that figure is "significant" because it represents the number of potentially dangerous situations that were defused by firearms.

Fortin said the role of the border officer has shifted dramatically over the years. Now there is heavy focus on national security, counterterrorism and law enforcement, including intercepting impaired drivers, whereas the primary task was previously duty and tax collection.

"At the end of the day, we are the front line of defence for the country," he said. "In past, you let them go and call the police, so these individuals who could be a potential threat actually are being dealt with at the border now."


Fortin said guns serve as a deterrent and help calm individuals who are agitated, threatening or physically aggressive.

The union is now pushing to expand the authority of agents to carry weapons at Canadian airports. Right now only certain agents under "specific and limited circumstances" are authorized to carry firearms at Canadian airports, whereas in the United States and other jurisdictions most are armed.
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The union also wants a specialized armed team to patrol the border, as the U.S. has.

But so far he has not seen any appetite from the federal government.

"We feel that there's still a lot of resistance from the Liberal government. My perception was that they are still bitter the Conservative government armed us," he said.

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CBSA spokesman Barre Campbell said border officers are trained to use all tools necessary as they encounter daily risks that include prohibited weapons and high-risk individuals.

"The arming initiative has given our officers the training to use force, when necessary, to ensure the safety and security of themselves, the travelling public and other individuals," he said. "The low number of instances that a firearm has been employed is a testament to CBSA's training program and the conduct of its officers."


The role of front-line employees, he said, is to ensure the smooth flow of legitimate trade and travel while keeping Canada's border secure by assessing situations using "skills, training, tools and good judgment."

CBSA officers are trained to assess risk to determine if a situation warrants the use of force.

Campbell said all incidents where a weapon is used are thoroughly reviewed to ensure protocols were followed.

I would still like to see a return to disarmed CBSA officers. Dunno if this is a really important issue in federal politics though.
 

sant

Member
They need guns for the 0.01% chance something does go down.

If you are against that, then you are irrational. I am not gun person but the people who control access to my country should be armed to protect us.
 
They've fired more guns accidentally than for a reason, and every time it's for a reason that reason is animals? Seems like we could save 11 bullets and a billion dollars by having them call animal control.
 

sant

Member
Wtf is their rep talking about? These people really are on a powertrip.

My Dad was an RCMP officer. They trained him to fire his weapon as a last resort or if his mates were in danger. When you have poorly trained/incompetent officers like in the US, that is when people get shot for no reason.
 

Oppo

Member
"We feel that there's still a lot of resistance from the Liberal government. My perception was that they are still bitter the Conservative government armed us," he said.

gave yourself away there, fucko.

the stats speak for themselves. the animals shouldn't have been dealt with that way anyhow.
 
They need guns for the 0.01% chance something does go down.

If you are against that, then you are irrational. I am not gun person but the people who control access to my country should be armed to protect us.

Over the last 10 years it has been 0%, not 0.01%. We don't need any more "accidental discharges", especially not in a crowded airport.
 

Philly40

Member
They need guns for the 0.01% chance something does go down.

If you are against that, then you are irrational. I am not gun person but the people who control access to my country should be armed to protect us.

Bananas painted with food dye to look like guns would be just as effective,

and at the end of their shift the guards would have a delicious healthy snack to eat.
 

sant

Member
Over the last 10 years it has been 0%, not 0.01%. We don't need any more "accidental discharges", especially not in a crowded airport.

Would you rather have us be like the UK where a maniac can run around with a knife and innocent people get hurt because the people protecting us couldn't put him down?

The whole point of weapons is deterrence, not a want to use them.
 

Oppo

Member
They need guns for the 0.01% chance something does go down.

If you are against that, then you are irrational. I am not gun person but the people who control access to my country should be armed to protect us.

what? tasers seem like they would be just as effective for the tiny percentage of situations that warranted even drawing a weapon.
 
They need guns for the 0.01% chance something does go down.

If you are against that, then you are irrational. I am not gun person but the people who control access to my country should be armed to protect us.

I spent four years working at the border and just no. No they don't. There's always cops hanging around. Zero need for armed customs officers. You might as well arm an accounting firm for the type of work an officer actually does.
 

sant

Member
Bananas painted with food dye to look like guns would be just as effective,

and at the end of their shift the guards would have a delicious healthy snack to eat.

Until some wacko kills someone close to you. Bet you would be outraged that the officers didn't have guns.
 

sant

Member
what? tasers seem like they would be just as effective for the tiny percentage of situations that warranted even drawing a weapon.

Tasers can be effective but they can be even more inhumane. RCMP officers literally tasered a dude to death at YVR some years ago.
 

sant

Member
I spent four years working at the border and just no. No they don't. There's always cops hanging around. Zero need for armed customs officers. You might as well arm an accounting firm for the type of work an officer actually does.

What if they are overwhelmed? What if a CBSA officer saves an officers or civilian's life?
 
What if they are overwhelmed? What if a CBSA officer saves an officers or civilian's life?

What if dinosaurs attack? Giant ants?

If an army ever decides to invade from Port Huron we'll have bigger worries.

Customs officers are accountants. They sit and look at invoices all day. These aren't the people who are defending the front line of Canada.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Would you rather have us be like the UK where a maniac can run around with a knife and innocent people get hurt because the people protecting us couldn't put him down?

The whole point of weapons is deterrence, not a want to use them.

Yeah after all crazy knife attacks happen at borders all the time, it's so common wow.

Would you rather be like the US where a maniac can run around with a gun and innocent people get hurt because the people proctecting you aren't some kind of magicians that can teleport?
 

Oppo

Member
Tasers can be effective but they can be even more inhumane. RCMP officers literally tasered a dude to death at YVR some years ago.

come on. you can't seriously think this is a good argument.

I do support a subset of border agents having firearms but what this union prez is asking for in the OP is entirely, actually, unjustified. The only argument you can make is that pulling a gun may have diffused a tiny handful of potentially bad situations, which is why I mentioned the taser.
 
What if dinosaurs attack? Giant ants?

If an army ever decides to invade from Port Huron we'll have bigger worries.

Customs officers are accountants. They sit and look at invoices all day. These aren't the people who are defending the front line of Canada.

what if Rhea Perlman attacks? huh then what would they do?
 

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
Until some wacko kills someone close to you. Bet you would be outraged that the officers didn't have guns.

You know what, I agree 100%. We need to always plan for every possible scenario that could manifest in the future. That's why I believe we need to place tanks at every border crossing to deter anyone from fucking with us.
 

bosseye

Member
Amazing, how have they managed to fire off more shots accidentally than for a faintly legitimate reason.

I'm always impressed by low gun stats though, nice to see them not being used.
 
You know what, I agree 100%. We need to always plan for every possible scenario that could manifest in the future. That's why I believe we need to place tanks at every border crossing to deter anyone from fucking with us.

Tanks? Are you insane? We need to put Nuclear Bombs in every station. Only then will we be safe
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
It's 2 bullets per year.

Let them keep their guns. Who gives a shit. I'd rather them have it than not. And they've drawn them 300 times, which has probably de-escalated issues.
 

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
Tanks? Are you insane? We need to put Nuclear Bombs in every station. Only then will we be safe

We might as well launch them on ourselves so would be aggressors understand just how far we're willing to go to protect this country.
 

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
It's 2 bullets per year.

Let them keep their guns. Who gives a shit. I'd rather them have it than not. And they've drawn them 300 times, which has probably de-escalated issues.

What did they do in the decades prior to them getting armed?
 
Would you rather have us be like the UK where a maniac can run around with a knife and innocent people get hurt because the people protecting us couldn't put him down?

The whole point of weapons is deterrence, not a want to use them.

When's the last time anyone attacked a border?

Especially the US-Canadian border.
 

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Canada-New York border patrol is full of colossal assholes though. Notoriously a terrible place.
 

Madness

Member
Not bad. One thing is complacency sets in and people become trigger happy. With the belief tasers are extremely safe, cops have been using them quite a bit.

Also, this is sort of a misleading thing. US highway and state patrol is armed to the teeth, US homeland security monitors Canadian borders as much as their own. You wouldn't expect anything to happen at the Canada-US border because if they're coming from the US, they're almost likely already stopped. Or if coming from the Canadian side, almost certainly not able to buy handguns and bushmaster AR's fairly easily like in the US.

Now imagine how much they may have to use them if they had say the Mexican cartel working along the border like around Juarez-El Paso near Texas.
 

Zips

Member
Almost sounds like their guns should just be taken away, given that they have mostly just accidentally fired them. Would have to know more about the situations where they drew their weapons to be sure, but that power-hungry union rep does not fill me with confidence.

Definitely don't give them guns for airports too.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
No guns at the airport? Even as an American I get alarmed when I travel abroad and the dudes in the airport have like assault rifles.
 

GKnight

Banned
Reminds me of how the corrections union finally got allowed to carry handguns on escorts after the Hells Angels in Quebec busted one of their gang leaders out of a transport van with unarmed correctional officers.

There is always a chance they will need it, so may as well arm them and train them.

Collapsible batons may be the next thing on the list...

Personally I'd rather change the laws so officers have access to inmate medical files in the case they spit, or throw other bodily fluids at staff so that the staff doesn't have to go on a year of ridiculously painful meds just in case.
 
Does anything actually go down at the us Canada border?

No. Once you hit the actual border there's nowhere to go. At least where I was, if you turn around you're running into US customs, and if you try to run into Canada you won't get far at all. There's always one or two police cruisers in the immediate area. The CCRA were taking guns from Americans with no problem for what? 70 years before they were armed.
 
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