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Skullgirls |OT| New age of Heroines

Ken

Member
Finally finished the tutorial. It was a really good tutorial, probably the best I've used for a fighting game. I also really liked how it simplified defending against mix-ups. My only complaint is that I wish the target combo was placed elsewhere since the practice dummy would block it; was troublesome on a few tutorials pushing the dummy somewhere to see what I need to do.
 
Salty Cupcakes 4/11/13 : http://www.twitch.tv/eightysixed/b/389721702
0:02:53 - 360 Patch
1:48:00 - Build of the Week


360 Patch :
Xbox 360 Patch will either be submitted today or has already been submitted. It should be out in two weeks assuming it passes the submission process. Wasn't submitted last week due to shenanigans.

Build of the Week :
System -
  • Undizzy bursts are now accompanied with a really neat green effect
  • Seems difficult to activate Undizzy burst with single character combo, looks like its more intended to deal with extended DHC or Tag combos.

Squigly -
  • Added more normals to her moveset
  • Showed off pseudo-see through skirt for some of her palettes, looks neat.
  • She will probably have her airdash removed, still temp.
  • Added character portrait and character select emblem, no more giant white blocks on char. select
  • Cleaned up animations for some of her moves.

Ms. Fortune -
  • Returned airdash to headless Fortune.
  • Headless Fortune's airdash has a much higher height needed in order to activate, won't be able to apply same amount of airdash based pressure that Head-On Fortune will have.
  • Cr.HP (with head on) Launcher now props opponent up at same level HK Launcher does but does more damage
  • All head on specific normals do more damage
  • Will no longer lose her head if knocked out of moves where she uses her head
  • Can force her to lose her head if using snapback.

Peacock -
  • Can only have two bombs out in the field at once
  • 1 button bomb cancels still awesome

Filia -
  • Air Gregor Samson super now has ground recovery, much easier to punish.

Valentine -
  • No longer has air action after blocked Air Knives THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
-------------

In Summary~

I like the Fortune changes again this week. The idea is to differentiate between Headless and Headed Fortune in such a way as to give incentive to use each "stance" in different situations. Again this is a good direction for this character because as I mentioned last week, the current state of Fortune is that she's just a FAR more capable character when her head is removed from her shoulders.

I love love love seeing Squigly progress after each week, seeing her slowly shape up into a playable character has been a real pleasure. It seems she has good enough normals in her current state to actually function as a competent assist character. Her st.HP in particular is looking FANTASTIC. It is a multihitting OVERHEAD assist meaning it'll function fantastically for both lockdown and mixups, think of it as the reverse of Painwheels crMP assist.

I'm still under the impression that SOMETHING needs to be done with Filia's damage output though lowering her ability to just carelessly get out of pressure situations with Up-Do -> Air Gregor Samson is probably a positive change to the game as a whole. She has very high midscreen damage output, very high mixup capability and very high mobility making her differ pretty significantly from Painwheel (High mixup, high damage, awful neutral game)

As a Peacock player, I love the Valentine change <3
 

Kioshen

Member
Undizzy burst ? huh ?

Wait MikeZ buffed the damage of one of the few characters that can already ToD ? I understand Mike likes his real soviet damage but c'mon !

Ciscokid's changes are still in it seems.
 
Undizzy burst ? huh ?

Wait MikeZ buffed the damage of one of the few characters that can already ToD ? I understand Mike likes his real soviet damage but c'mon !

Ciscokid's changes are still in it seems.

So think of Undizzy as a hidden stun value in the game, if you reach the required hits in a combo for the stun value to "activate" then the person getting combo'd will be able to burst out. This is different from Infinite Prevention Burst which is caused by using a normal that you used in another part of a combo at the beginning of a repetition of a loop.

As for the ToD potential of Fortune, the key to her damage output in the current state of the game is her ability to avoid OTGs using the sliding head move after launcher strings, this has already been removed and put in the list of changes that will 100% be in the build of the game with Squigly's release.

Ciscokid's changes are not in the game anymore, HIS idea was to retain the ability to throw out 3 bombs at one time but not be able to throw out any other bombs until those 3 disappeared. This SUCKED in comparison to just having a hard cap on how many bombs you can have on the screen at once because a single walking George would prevent you from being able to throw out bombs for EVER.

Edit : Video helps
http://www.twitch.tv/eightysixed/b/389721702
1:54:00
 
New clean Squigly animations, colors and character select art
Mike explaining undizzies
Mike explaining the character changes for this week's build

Lots of new info here to digest and it only takes less than ten minutes to chew through. Timestamped for your convenience. Squigly's progress is awesome stuff.

http://www.jp.playstation.com/psn/store/magazine/
SkullgirlsJapaneseweek8_zps43cd3452.jpg
Skullgirls' Eighth week on the JP charts and still not falling off. Cyberfront should be happy about how it all turned out.
 

Kioshen

Member
Thanks for the explanation DiscoShark and for the links SolarPowered. Kinda sucks that it starts so late I can't watch it live on the east coast :(.
 

Ken

Member
18 hit combo being "Barely Legal" is pretty funny.

Learned a Parasoul BnB. Now I need to learn some Valentine stuff before I even dare try real matches.
 
First time seeing her progress since the original reveal, it's amazing how far they've progressed since that static sprite! i love that there's a B&W color for her referencing the original reveal. Also, is that a Lady Zozo alt I spy?
She is gonna be nearly complete by the middle of May at this rate. They're moving pretty fast. Makes me hopeful about the other DLC characters.
Thanks for the explanation DiscoShark and for the links SolarPowered. Kinda sucks that it starts so late I can't watch it live on the east coast :(.
No problemo

I'm gonna have to start timestamping this stuff weekly since it is more helpful.
 

Ravidrath

Member
She is gonna be nearly complete by the middle of May at this rate. They're moving pretty fast. Makes me hopeful about the other DLC characters.

Current schedule is for animation/clean-up to be complete by May 24th.

Alex will be done with Big Band's move concepts and model sheet by then, so we'll start on him then while Mike finishes up Squigly's implementation and preps her for the open beta testing on the PC version.
 

Nyoro SF

Member
Current schedule is for animation/clean-up to be complete by May 24th.

Alex will be done with Big Band's move concepts and model sheet by then, so we'll start on him then while Mike finishes up Squigly's implementation and preps her for the open beta testing on the PC version.

This is great to hear. With the PC version looming, I look forward to being able to practice the game normally again.
 

Kioshen

Member
Oh man Squigley looks awesome and she's not even finished yet. Has her archetype been already decided yet ? Like a Ryu, Magnus, Sagat or whatever else ?
 
Oh man Squigley looks awesome and she's not even finished yet. Has her archetype been already decided yet ? Like a Ryu, Magnus, Sagat or whatever else ?

I dont think they could start animating without having everything about her specials / normals / playstyle planned out before hand.

Quoting from the Indiegogo :
Squigly's play style is pretty unique, both for Skullgirls and fighting games as a whole. She's a ranged stance character, but of course she has some unique touches all her own.

Leviathan can stretch, giving Squigly some far-ranging normal attacks - especially when she&#8217;s airborne. In addition to her normals and special attacks, she can access additional moves by assuming two different stances. While in each stance, she&#8217;ll pose and gain access to new attacks and movement options, and the longer she stays in a stance before executing a move the more powerful it will be.

Squigly&#8217;s jump is floaty, her dashes take some time to build momentum, and her normals can&#8217;t reach across the screen. So how does she get close enough to do damage? By singing.

As an opera star, when Squigly sings all eyes focus on her, forcibly shifting the game&#8217;s camera towards her. This naturally moves the edge of playfield with it, dragging her opponent towards her. No other game has a move like this, and it should open a number of interesting tactical possibilities, especially when used as an Ensemble Attack.
 

Kioshen

Member
I meant "not finished" as in "not finished all of her animations yet". The normals looked all planned out and I like what I see.

Reading the description she looks like a mix of Gen and the opponent manipulation moves of Magnus/Storm of UMvC3. I wonder if I'll be able to wrap my head around a stance character :(.
 
I meant "not finished" as in "not finished all of her animations yet". The normals looked all planned out and I like what I see.

Reading the description she looks like a mix of Gen and the opponent manipulation moves of Magnus/Storm of UMvC3. I wonder if I'll be able to wrap my head around a stance character :(.

Not Gen, more Johnny (Guilty Gear).

The difference is that Gen style stances changes your entire array of normal and special moves that he has access to at any given time, basically making him an entirely different character. Johnny style stances are essentially do a pose (the activation of the stance pose) -> Choose between multiple followups.
 
Current schedule is for animation/clean-up to be complete by May 24th.

Alex will be done with Big Band's move concepts and model sheet by then, so we'll start on him then while Mike finishes up Squigly's implementation and preps her for the open beta testing on the PC version.
Cool

I was initially down on the idea of constant data being presented for the DLC characters, but this is surprisingly fun to watch all in all. It's awesome that the game is finally getting some work done on it again too.
I feel like Valentine might not be for me. :(

Is there anyone like Dudley from SSFIV or Labrys from P4A?
Andy and Stanley are the closest to Dudley, but they're not in the game yet. If you talk Labrys I think big hitboxes so I'll say Parasoul.
 

Kioshen

Member
Not Gen, more Johnny (Guilty Gear).

The difference is that Gen style stances changes your entire array of normal and special moves that he has access to at any given time, basically making him an entirely different character. Johnny style stances are essentially do a pose (the activation of the stance pose) -> Choose between multiple followups.

After watching a Johnny tutorial I understand better what the stance thing is about thanks !
 
Controversial opinion time?

I've been talking about this a lot on the IRC side of things and having used the character extensively both Pre and Post-Patch I can confidently say that Painwheel is probably the weakest character in the game. That is to say that her tools to deal with other characters are insufficient to deal with the ease for characters to convert air moves to full combos and that she has, more than any other character in this game, an absolute reliance on assists in order to effectively begin any part of her game.

Just to summarize the significant changes in Post-Patch Painwheel
  • Slower Fly backwards speed.
  • Less invincibility on air super.

It seems like a pretty subtle adjustment but I think these did a lot to highlight the main problems with the character. Slower fly backward speed means its harder for her to bait out the invincible assists that wreck her day and get out of range of characters like Parasoul who will easily jump jLP jHP into a combo. Less invincibility on air super means she can't throw out her air super in response to say a Cerebella Arm super and reliably beat it in response.

What you end up with is a character designed to be centered around air dominance that is swat down like a fly by every person who has a clue about the matchup. Flight, her main source of initiating an effective rushdown, is inherently unsafe and easily counterable and she has nothing else to effectively throw out in her neutral game to diversify her approach. Hatred Guard jHP just isn't reliable in these situations to deal with an onslaught of invincible assists and multihitting air strings.

This brings up I think a more profound problem with Painwheel as a character. She's a character designed as air dominance but lacks any specials beyond Fly that synergize with this aim. Pinion Dash, despite looking awesome, lacks any real use and her projectiles force her to be planted on the ground and leave no room for follow up after their release. Buer Reaper, her scythe grab, is VERY unsafe on block and only leaves room to follow up for combos in situations in situations where you have your opponent grounded or near the corner.

Now, I get it, balancing Painwheel's neutral game presents a sticky situation because her damage output and reset capability are among the highest in the game. She can also convert off of random hits much more effectively than the majority of the characters in the game. I understand why the Fly backwards nerf was instituted in order to help mitigate her power to simply fly backwards out of the range of offensive opponents however, in the current state of the game, she just lacks any tool to make up for that loss.

I point to the introduction of Undizzy to the system as a passive nerf to the power of resets and DHC strings across the board though. When this is taken into account I think what your left with is more than enough wiggle room to be able to take more liberties with the character and improving her base game.

Proposed Changes :
  • More frames on j.HP in which you can absorb moves.
  • Fly cancellable projectiles
  • Something for Pinion Dash ... potentially hatred guard properties on either charge up or release based on level charged up to? Fly cancellable charge up sequence with the caveat that she cannot fly cancel the actual release?

In summation, Painwheel is an extremely solid character when she's able to get a hit in but compared to the difficulty of getting a hit with Painwheel vs. getting a hit with Filia whose reset game, mobility, and damage output are potentially just as strong it's clear that something needs to be done to make Painwheel a more viable threat.

The proposed changes do more to diversify her neutral game while understanding that the character should have inherent weaknesses.
 
So I guess Skullheart is still down.

I'm not sure why you think your opinion is controversial Disco. No one here plays the game enough to disagree with you.

Okay, those were the two jokes I had to get out of my system. >_>

So, Painwheel sucks as a solo character?
 
So I guess Skullheart is still down.

I'm not sure why you think your opinion is controversial Disco. No one here plays the game enough to disagree with you.

Okay, those were the two jokes I had to get out of my system. >_>

So, Painwheel sucks as a solo character?

Heh, I guess you're right. And yeah, outside of theory fighting on IRC it's really hard to discuss these things with people with Skullheart down. Guess I could post it on SRK ...

Painwheel sucks period and now there's no HK Hornet Bomber equivalent to make people think otherwise. =p
 
Heh, I guess you're right. And yeah, outside of theory fighting on IRC it's really hard to discuss these things with people with Skullheart down. Guess I could post it on SRK ...

Painwheel sucks period and now there's no HK Hornet Bomber equivalent to make people think otherwise. =p

I see you're getting your jokes in too. <_< lol

Though you aren't gonna get much discussion here, it's probably the best place to post with SH down. Apparently Mike lurks everywhere, and if it's really important, or at least thoughtful like your post, it wouldn't be hard for Ravid to point him here.

I guess there aren't really any good air assists? Air moves as assists needs to be a thing.
 
Indeed Solowheel is ass, which is why I only run it.

Nothing teaches you defense better than having to deal with everything under the sun. Plus her base damage is pretty disgusting even among solos, so you can put people away without knowing the extended stuff if they give you an opportunity.
 
Welp, that didn't take long to get feedback.

Mike says I'm a scrub for not reading the To-Do list :

Painwheel experiments
Pinion dash...something? Armor or faster charge or Hatred Guard at least. Fly-cancel? ;^)
Air super recover to air on whiff? Still must be minus a lot on block.
Hatred Guard accumulating dmg across uses until attack hits/blocked?
Hatred Guard active up until 1st active frame if fully charged...?
Fly-cancel nails? Regularly or in Install?

Though he said the fly-cancel nails was an interesting idea and added it to the list of things to test out! Woo for contributions! His idea for changing hatred guard as a whole is MUUUCH more significant than just adding more frames of hatred guard to jHP. Really cool stuff.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/...VrfDZGRtXc-T6XsZxrCve4/preview?pli=1&sle=true
 
I'm using Parasoul already so I'm looking for someone to pair with her unless I just go solo with her. @_@
Parasoul is no good on her own imo unless you are a mean combo monster like Sev. Her resets and pressure only really shine when she is teamed up with someone.

You can't go wrong with anyone when you are yousing Parasoul if you ask me. There are tons of DP assists in the game, tons of blockstun inducing assists and tons of quirky grab assists that she benefits from. Just pick a second character you enjoy and watch it all come together with practice.
This was uploaded to NicoNico the other day. Some sort of Visual Novel parody

Mildly NSFW

http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20600062

Says it was supposed to be an April Fools joke but came out late.
Haven't seen this. I bet I'm going to regret watching it lol.
Controversial opinion time?

I've been talking about this a lot on the IRC side of things and having used the character extensively both Pre and Post-Patch I can confidently say that Painwheel is probably the weakest character in the game. That is to say that her tools to deal with other characters are insufficient to deal with the ease for characters to convert air moves to full combos and that she has, more than any other character in this game, an absolute reliance on assists in order to effectively begin any part of her game.

Just to summarize the significant changes in Post-Patch Painwheel
  • Slower Fly backwards speed.
  • Less invincibility on air super.

It seems like a pretty subtle adjustment but I think these did a lot to highlight the main problems with the character. Slower fly backward speed means its harder for her to bait out the invincible assists that wreck her day and get out of range of characters like Parasoul who will easily jump jLP jHP into a combo. Less invincibility on air super means she can't throw out her air super in response to say a Cerebella Arm super and reliably beat it in response.

What you end up with is a character designed to be centered around air dominance that is swat down like a fly by every person who has a clue about the matchup. Flight, her main source of initiating an effective rushdown, is inherently unsafe and easily counterable and she has nothing else to effectively throw out in her neutral game to diversify her approach. Hatred Guard jHP just isn't reliable in these situations to deal with an onslaught of invincible assists and multihitting air strings.

This brings up I think a more profound problem with Painwheel as a character. She's a character designed as air dominance but lacks any specials beyond Fly that synergize with this aim. Pinion Dash, despite looking awesome, lacks any real use and her projectiles force her to be planted on the ground and leave no room for follow up after their release. Buer Reaper, her scythe grab, is VERY unsafe on block and only leaves room to follow up for combos in situations in situations where you have your opponent grounded or near the corner.

Now, I get it, balancing Painwheel's neutral game presents a sticky situation because her damage output and reset capability are among the highest in the game. She can also convert off of random hits much more effectively than the majority of the characters in the game. I understand why the Fly backwards nerf was instituted in order to help mitigate her power to simply fly backwards out of the range of offensive opponents however, in the current state of the game, she just lacks any tool to make up for that loss.

I point to the introduction of Undizzy to the system as a passive nerf to the power of resets and DHC strings across the board though. When this is taken into account I think what your left with is more than enough wiggle room to be able to take more liberties with the character and improving her base game.

Proposed Changes :
  • More frames on j.HP in which you can absorb moves.
  • Fly cancellable projectiles
  • Something for Pinion Dash ... potentially hatred guard properties on either charge up or release based on level charged up to? Fly cancellable charge up sequence with the caveat that she cannot fly cancel the actual release?

In summation, Painwheel is an extremely solid character when she's able to get a hit in but compared to the difficulty of getting a hit with Painwheel vs. getting a hit with Filia whose reset game, mobility, and damage output are potentially just as strong it's clear that something needs to be done to make Painwheel a more viable threat.

The proposed changes do more to diversify her neutral game while understanding that the character should have inherent weaknesses.
This post was smart and very well presented. I can't say that I disagree with much here. She really does walk the fine line between being mediocre and fucking horrifying, though. I'm sure Mike sees that. Hopefully he doesn't let her fall behind everyone else.

Pinion dash definitely does need to be more useful.
 

Ken

Member
Going to try Filia then.

Edit: What assist should I set on Filia in a Filia and Parasoul team? And should Parasoul be my point character?
 
Going to try Filia then.

Edit: What assist should I set on Filia in a Filia and Parasoul team? And should Parasoul be my point character?
I'd recommend Filia's hairball specials. They create lots of blockstun and give you lots of mid range space. That is where a character like Parasoul excels if you make good use of her pokes, tear tosses/shots, bike super and her bike soldier grab.

Filia's updo assist is good too, but a good Parasoul usually doesn't have to worry about having an anti air assist thanks to her strong jumping normals and the wall of tears she can place in front of her.
 

Ultimadrago

Member
Just the clarify on the 360 patch...

It's two weeks if it passes submission. Of course we don't expect it to fail, but you never know.

And sure enough,

Mike Z shares on tonight's Salty Cupcakes stream:
Xbox 360 patch was rejected due to an overlook on Konami's side.

So yeah...

Wait longer 360 people!
 

Ravidrath

Member
And sure enough,

So yeah...

Wait longer 360 people!

Hopefully the delay won't be too long - as far as we can tell, without this stumbling block it would have been released.

...So provided that Konami resubmits it tomorrow, I think it could still be out within the initial "two weeks."
 

Ultimadrago

Member
Hopefully the delay won't be too long - as far as we can tell, without this stumbling block it would have been released.

...So provided that Konami resubmits it tomorrow, I think it could still be out within the initial "two weeks."

Well, that's good. Hopefully they are prompt with re-submission.
 

DaRabidDuckie

Junior Member
So Mike was testing a lot of the different speeds that the game could run at.

3 seemed like the sweet spot. Blazing fast, but not too hard on the execution. A little like MvC2 with the movement speed of KoF. I dug it.
 
http://www.jp.playstation.com/psn/store/magazine/

Skullgirls' 9th week on the JP charts. It's never gonna fall out of top ten wtf.

Salty Cupcakes data Dump(timestamped for your convenience):
Casper Squigly palette(mirrors go on for a while)
Alex voted Annie and Eliza
Squigly's origins and the proportion changes for rest of cast
Plans for Skullgirls comic still a thing and salty Umbrella might see some canon action
D.violet's origins and tropes. More Eliza details and general VA discussion
About 70 contractors currently doing work for SG
Annie personality discussion and Big Band's favorite instruments
What types of attacks Aeon could have
Possibly more BG NPCs and Bikini Bible Chan in stage backgrounds!
Patterns on alternate color palettes
Confirmation on possible gameplay for Annie
Marie is Shenron/Simon?
Reveal of River King casino stage, Painwheel changes, Filia changes, Double changes, Valentine changes, Parasoul changes, Squigly changes, assist and snapback changes(like 12 minutes)
Frameskip/Speed testing(7 is defalt, 1 is fastest). Crucial watch here. X-factor am cry

*All content funded via Indiegogo is free (characters are free forever if obtained within three months release which means get them while they're hot)
*All character portraits have been palettized
*Speed/Frameskip 7 is default patched speed, and 6 (faster) was initially supposed to be default speed for patched Skullgirls. Speed 6 might still happen
*Eightysixed has partnered with Twitch thanks to massive growth from Skullgirls. Currently in talks regarding open chats, subscriptions and Skullgirls emotes
*Skullgirls merchandise appears on Eightysixed website. Includes large pins (permanently on site) and limited edition shirts available for a period of one week. "Salty Umbrella" shirt available this week!
and she has Napalm Pillar.
Yeah, that is like mentioning Ryu's DP. It's an obvious and one of this best moves. :p
 

Beats

Member
Thanks for that. I missed the stream yesterday.

River King Stage looks really good. I like it.

Speed 6 doesn't seem too bad, but I think I'd need to try it to make a solid judgment. 1 is definitely way too fast lol.
 
Since the 360 patch is coming out soon, I was thinking it might be interesting to create a trailer to generate some hype like Capcom did, maybe? For reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94wBTEoYo60 - AE v2012 trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijkXlbGo-M8 - SFxT v2013 trailer

Thoughts?

Honestly? I don't see the point outside of potential advertising for the color DLC.

1. Slightly Different Edition (the 360 patch that's just about to come out) isn't new anymore, it's been out since November of last year for the PS3.

2. It's in the unfortunate position of coming out a time where the base is shifting focus to the upcoming "Squigly Edition" patch which promises stages, music, and Squigly herself on top of even more balance and system changes. Squigly edition represents a much more significant update to the core experience.
 

Ravidrath

Member
Since the 360 patch is coming out soon, I was thinking it might be interesting to create a trailer to generate some hype like Capcom did, maybe? For reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94wBTEoYo60 - AE v2012 trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijkXlbGo-M8 - SFxT v2013 trailer

Thoughts?

I wanted to do this when the patch came out on PS3, but there wasn't time or money to do it.

Recording footage, especially footage to show all the stuff the patch does, would have taken a long time and would have been difficult to get our editor guy to show in a meaningful way.

What I really wanted to do was a "reverse quotes trailer" - basically do it like our quotes trailer, but use bad review quotes and then show footage that showed we had fixed those things.

Quote: "The lack of a moves list is baffling." -IGN
<Move list footage>
Giant FIXED stamp on the screen​

Autumn thought it was too risky, though. :\
 
I wanted to do this when the patch came out on PS3, but there wasn't time or money to do it.

Recording footage, especially footage to show all the stuff the patch does, would have taken a long time and would have been difficult to get our editor guy to show in a meaningful way.

What I really wanted to do was a "reverse quotes trailer" - basically do it like our quotes trailer, but use bad review quotes and then show footage that showed we had fixed those things.

Quote: "The lack of a moves list is baffling." -IGN
<Move list footage>
Giant FIXED stamp on the screen​

Autumn thought it was too risky, though. :\
You don't need to quote anyone. You could just make said problems appear in big red letters before you strike them out and show the fix. A particularly funny thing would be showing Double's Fullscreen hornet bomber beating a beam/projectile, flashing a big "FIXED" and then showing it getting stuffed from far away. No need to push anyone's buttons with Joystiq and IGN quotes.
 
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