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[The Eradicator]

The Elder Scrolls series takes the Ultima series, Questron series, etc., style of open world CRPGs and brings it into the modern age. Origin tried with the last couple of Ultima games, but by that time EA was involved and Origin went to crap, although Ultima Online was pretty awesome. Both the Elder Scrolls and Witcher series started out on the PC.

Here is a review of The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall by CRPG historian and author of Dungeons and Destops: The History of Computer Role Playing Games, Matt Barton. The Elder Scrolls and Witcher series is included in Dungeons and Desktops. Right at the begining he calls Daggerfall a CRPG and even references Ultima IV.


If anyone is interested, Barton just did a recent interview of Bruce Nesmith, who has worked in the industry since the 8/16-bit computer days, worked at TSR and Bethesda and was the lead designer of Skyrim.

Really don't care what this guy says, because Bethesda doesn't make CRPGs. Just because they're "computer" games, they still aren't CRPGs. A CRPG example would be Divinity:Original Sin. Older Fallout games were CRPGs, but NOT the Bethesda games.

 

[Chukhopops]

The Witcher 3 is not only better but its Skyrim on steroids and both bow down to Elden Ring.

Completely different games with completely different design goals, what’s with all the meteoric takes in this thread?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Completely different games with completely different design goals, what’s with all the meteoric takes in this thread?

This is wrong.

 

[Salvatron]

Bethesda is in no way unique in having ambitions to create massive worlds.
I have zero faith in Bethesda putting out a game with even a modicum of polish at this point. Shit, a quick google and they just announced Starfield is delayed till 2023.
Whenever it happens and they manage to serve up an 'entertainment product' to the public, it will be a gigantic buggy turd.

 

[Chukhopops]

This is wrong.

You don’t see any design goal difference between Elden Ring and Skyrim??

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

You don’t see any design goal difference between Elden Ring and Skyrim??

Witcher 3 and Skyrim are the same types of games.
The difference is one outdoes the other in nearly every aspect plus has a added cinematic affect.

 

[Boss Man]

I remember looking at some of the code in Bethesda’s engine with a friend and laughing about how dumb some of it was and how janky their games are. For example, IIRC every object in the game has an “IsPlayerHorse()” true/false value. That is one of the most hilarious and backwards things I’ve ever seen. There are also still tons of references to Morrowind in code, and we joke that Starfield will use “IsPlayerHorse()” for the player’s ship. The pool noodle combat (despite them always hyping it up before release) is also atrocious.

Having said that, Bethesda’s games really are pretty much their own genre. No one else is making game worlds that feel as alive and immersive as theirs do. Like someone else mentioned, Kingdom Come: Deliverance is probably the only other game that’s even attempted to do anything similar.

So yeah, I joke about Bethesda’s devs all the time and I often shit on their games - but it’s also after playing them for 400 hours. Would love to see more sandbox roleplaying games from other developers. Games like The Witcher, Horizon, or Elden Ring are great but they’re definitely not the same kind of game.

I’m pretty sure the technical difference is that Bethesda is in the business of making game worlds with flexible tools that are super accessible which makes adding loads of content scalable. You just get the sense playing their games that every NPC and every object is following the same set of rules. It lends a certain integrity or “immersion” to the world that’s not there in games like TW3 or Horizon. If TES had Gwent you could probably throw the cards as weapons or leave valuable ones on the ground as bait for enemies…but there would also be a bug where your cards start to randomly disappear if you collect too many.

 

[Larlight]

In terms of being able to replicate Bethesda's large open world games, how many other video game developers would get a pass or benefit of the doubt if they were able to ship games as buggy as Bethesda games have been for years? They'd be crucified in ratings and sales whereas Bethesda thrives and gets meme'ed. Ex: "Lol, it's buggy but that's BUGTHESDA for ya! 10/10!"

 

[Fuz]

I'm not exactly a fan, but it is true that no one does open world as good as Bethesda.

Not even The Witcher 3, a vastly superior game, has a world as much alive and believable as Skyrim.

 

[CrimsonSquall]

I'm not exactly a fan, but it is true that no one does open world as good as Bethesda.

Not even The Witcher 3, a vastly superior game, has a world as much alive and believable as Skyrim.

Nah Elden Ring did it better

 

[Fuz]

Nah Elden Ring did it better

No.

 

[Boss Man]

Nah Elden Ring did it better

Elden Ring is incredible and will probably be my (and most others’) GOTY, but it is not a more realized world. It’s almost like a World of Warcraft “theme park” approach to open world. There are a lot of things in the game restricting emergent behavior. I love the game and how it managed to export awesome Souls gameplay to a streamlined open world, but yeah it is a streamlined open world and not anything like Bethesda’s games.

I feel like they innovated in the Souls genre (mostly I’m impressed by the volume of content and the enemy variety) but not necessarily open world games. They just made a really great game that is a new evolution of Souls games. Can anything really be borrowed from Elden Ring that couldn’t already be borrowed from Dark Souls?

Funny enough, I thought BoTW went in sort of the opposite direction. They really pushed the envelope despite it being their first go at it. They seemed to be focused on the open world experience itself and not just making a great Zelda game in an open world.

 

[Decontamination Silo]

I might be the only person who doesn't want to see them change engines. Despite it's many warts, I think it contributes a lot to Beth success. I don't know if another could offer that level of interactivity and ease of modding.

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

They need to finally make a game with good combat. They used to be so far ahead of others with their enormous, ambitious living worlds that players could forgive the absurd level of bugs and clunky battles. But I'd say their older games are better than their newer games (especially in terms of story and dialogue) and multiple developers have overtaken them even in the areas where they're strong. After Elden Ring I can't see Bethesda ever being the dominant massive open world developers again unless they improve drastically.

 

[Y0ssarian]

Fallout New Vegas? The Outer Worlds? Avowed?

 

[Belthazar]

Thank God, being so big in Skyrim's case just means that most of the content is just not that good and the things/people/places you can find in the world are barely meaningful in the end.