What? You touch where you want to go. You tap on the enemies to hit them. You have full 360 degree movement rather than clunky 16 way on a D-pad. How isn't that precise?
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Skyward Sword with an Xbox 360 Controller
- Thread starter IrrelevantNotch
- Start date
What? You touch where you want to go. You tap on the enemies to hit them. You have full 360 degree movement rather than clunky 16 way on a D-pad. How isn't that precise?
....no they don't. Remember that winning an argument in your head is not the same as winning it in real life.
You know motion is, fuckin ridiculous.
WrenchNinja
Member
You know what would have been "beautiful simplicity"? Letting me control swimming and flight with the stick. I dont have ant issues with sword like some here.
Q
qizah
Unconfirmed Member
lol the Wii controls were absolutely fine.
I don't know how many times I've said it - but if you honestly had issues, you were doing it wrong - and I don't really care if I sound like a jerk, because it's the truth.
Almost everyone who had complained the controls were an issue weren't playing the game properly.
Watching that footage just makes it look like it'd be a bigger mess with traditional controls. I can't imagine the controls being as smooth and I definitely can't see the experience being the same - it'd be a lot more clunkier.
I don't know how many times I've said it - but if you honestly had issues, you were doing it wrong - and I don't really care if I sound like a jerk, because it's the truth.
Almost everyone who had complained the controls were an issue weren't playing the game properly.
Watching that footage just makes it look like it'd be a bigger mess with traditional controls. I can't imagine the controls being as smooth and I definitely can't see the experience being the same - it'd be a lot more clunkier.
Is it really a backlash if people already decided they hated the controls before the game even came out?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I don't know what it was, but this post with that avatar had me dyin'
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I think it's a mixed bunch, those that lambast different control schemes.
Most control schemes that hit the market are very useable and while maybe not perfection, not at all gamebreakers but people will lead you to believe they are indeed that deficient.
The question is, what is their motivation???
I believe for many, it's the principle of the matter(they won't accept change/dislike the notion of motion controls) and that causes their ire.
This is annoying.
Then they are probably some who really can't come to grips with the schemes and it genuinely does detract from the experience.
Even if I was in the latter group(I'm in neither), I'd give it some time because not many companies are going to risk playability for novelty.
Speaking for myself, games like Donkey Kong Country Returns played more than fine(maybe minus speedrunning which I don't care about) as did games like Skyward Sword, etc...
Neither even required much of a learning curve to me(Skyward Sword moreso than DKCR though).
But that's me, I usually go with what the developer's vision is because I have faith they won't spend all that time on a final product that doesn't play well at all.
I didn't hate them before it came out. But I certainly did after I played it.
Since I went through all of the flight and swimming sections without even thinking about the controls, I have no real argument for that.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I didn't like the motion control that much, but it was ok. I can see why someone would really like it. However, I also think it's neat that somebody modded the game.
Options are cool.
Options are cool.
Snapshot King
Member
....no they don't. Remember that winning an argument in your head is not the same as winning it in real life.
You probably didn't see it on the last page, so I'll just repost it here.
Well, that whole sword swinging thing doesn't appeal to me at all. So I wouldn't have lost it at all, and instead I'd have gained more accurate and responsive attacking. Granted, analog aiming is slower, but at least I wouldn't have to recalibrate all the time, and the vast majority of the aiming in Skyward Sword (or any zelda for that matter) isn't time sensitive. Being able to make combat move faster would be a much bigger boon, or am I just nuts?
Anywho, if you want my take on the controls, I found that they worked about 90% of the time. Roughly 9 in 10 slashes were exactly what I wanted it to be once I became adjusted to what kind of swings the game wanted and at what speeds. Stabbing was the worst, but I realized it wasn't due to unresponsiveness of the wiimote itself, it was due to some weird programming error where thrusts went unregistered if you were too close to the targeted enemy. It was annoying as hell some times.
As for actual implementation, I felt the game made superb use of its unique controls. The disparity between my impressions and the impressions of other may have a lot to do with the fact that I didn't find them to be obtrusive or unresponsive. They "clicked" with me, and thus they were great. Everything felt much more visceral and engaging as my physical motions were translated directly onto the screen. It gave combat an extra oomph of satisfaction when my motions registered perfectly. Of particular note was reflecting ghirahim's daggers which always made me feel like a badass, fighting lizofos and smacking them in the face as they waved their tongues at me, fighting Koloktos and swinging its giant machete sword around, slashing away arrows before they could hit me, using my shield with a flick (which was way more responsive than I remember it being in TP), etc. There are definitely other moments I'm forgetting. Then there was the incredible bow. My favorite bow in any game ever. It was immensely satisfying clicking the nunchuck and tugging the string back before I let an arrow fly. It was a simple addition that was so much more rewarding than just pointing with the wiimote and pressing a button.
As for actual implementation, I felt the game made superb use of its unique controls. The disparity between my impressions and the impressions of other may have a lot to do with the fact that I didn't find them to be obtrusive or unresponsive. They "clicked" with me, and thus they were great. Everything felt much more visceral and engaging as my physical motions were translated directly onto the screen. It gave combat an extra oomph of satisfaction when my motions registered perfectly. Of particular note was reflecting ghirahim's daggers which always made me feel like a badass, fighting lizofos and smacking them in the face as they waved their tongues at me, fighting Koloktos and swinging its giant machete sword around, slashing away arrows before they could hit me, using my shield with a flick (which was way more responsive than I remember it being in TP), etc. There are definitely other moments I'm forgetting. Then there was the incredible bow. My favorite bow in any game ever. It was immensely satisfying clicking the nunchuck and tugging the string back before I let an arrow fly. It was a simple addition that was so much more rewarding than just pointing with the wiimote and pressing a button.
Snapshot King
Member
Yeah, this seems to be the big split. Everything you listed as a positive elicits a meh from me because I don't find it appealing, whereas that 1/10 sword slashes that you mentioned not going perfectly would drive me up the wall. Seems like a case of different tastes being split along an incredibly granular line that made or broke the game for many people.
Would it be faster though? It would be a very complicated control scheme for just having the relatively small addition of free control of the sword. The reason it was made such a big deal with the Wiimote was because it was possible to do it now in an obvious and intuitive way, without having to get players to play the game in a way that sacrificed other abilities (like being able to turn the camera).
Even if you can make yourself good enough to make the analog-stick combat be worthwhile, it would be seem as gimmicky and not an impact-full addition to the game. Having to use the analog stick instead of a button would slow down combat considerably, enough to negate the added depth; since players would be hold up on having to learn a weird control scheme just for swinging the sword. It's the opposite of using the Wiimote for the same purpose.
IrishNinja
Member
ViewtifulJC
Banned
too busy playing pso2 closed beta to care about skyward sword
If only the criticisms stemmed from just that.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Define "people."
I am a "people" too but I enjoy the controls for Skyward Sword.
It's interesting though, threads like this. Some of the people that have claimed that they dislike Nintendo always seem to flock to this kind of thread. It seems they are just claiming to be interested (I will try this if this I will try this if that...) while in actuality they have no interest at all and all they want to do is just... vent... on how Nintendo games are inferior to their preference.
Snapshot King
Member
On a bunch of these I'm just going to have to agree to disagree, because I can't for the life of me understand how you think waving your hand around and recalibrating is more natural in a game than flicking an analog stick. Maybe that's just me though.
To the point of would it be faster? Absolutely. There's a tangible delay between swinging the wii remote and Link swinging his sword, a delay that wouldn't exist at all if you used the analog stick for sword swipes. Also, in a game say, such as God Hand, that requires incredibly precise use of the analog stick to dodge, I never had a single dodge just freak out and not recognize, like the sword controls in SS (though its admittedly rare in SS, never is certainly much preferable to rare).
Also, of course it'd be gimmicky, every part of the SS combat system is gimmicky. The simon says enemy patterns are gimmicky as all hell, the only difference is that you prefer the tactile but less accurate gimmick of motion controls while I prefer the faster and more accurate button/analog stick controls.
All things being the same, the combat would be more or less the same, cept without motion controls it could also be faster.
IrishNinja
Member
This basically. I do understand people not liking them because they are different and they do take time to get used to, and they have different strengths and weaknesses than button and stick based controls. The feedback you get isn't really the same. But it's a shame when people don't give them a chance purely because of their motion based nature. 'Traditional' controls aren't some perfect sacred cow that can never be improved.
Yeah. Saying "controls worked 90% of the time!!" sounds very impressive. But saying "1 out of every 10 slashes is wrong" sounds so much worse. A lot of what is polarizing about this game comes down to what you're looking for and what your tolerance level is. Some people think the game is lazy in how it recycles areas. Others found it interesting how every area is explored from top to bottom. Some absolutely hated the silent realms, others found them suspenseful and engaging. Like I said in my first comment in this thread, SS is not a very viscerally engaging game. Combat is so much slower in this game than most action games, I can understand it not being everyone's cup of tea. I personally feel though that if some people would just put aside what they want the game to be and try to enjoy it for what it's trying to be, they'd have had a much better time.
edit: Whoops! In my initial comment, I didn't mean to say only 1/10 worked, I meant to say 9/10 with 1 in 10 being wrong.
callmedave
Member
I haven't had the chance to play SS yet, but is the hud really that bad? That's like a third of the screen cluttered with that junk, or can you turn it off?
Snapshot King
Member
You can turn it off after the tutorial. Either all the way off, or just take the outline of the wii remote off as well, I think.
EDIT
Yeah, I play a lot of genres, but every zelda getting easier and less actiony just bums me out. I miss the NES and SNES Zelda days. I guess that's why people like myself were so drawn to Demon Souls when that came out.
You can turn it off.
you can turn most of it off
I didn't mind the controls in SS, though I felt it was unnecessary in aspects such as swimming. I was much more disappointed in the actual repertoire of enemies...not only did the actual variation of enemies suffer in SS, but they very rarely amounted to more than seeing the direction they're blocking, do an angle not in that direction, then wave back and forth quickly as their guard is broken. There were a few instances I found clever, such as flipping the spiders on their backs by starting down and going up, and Ghirahim tracking the sword and you being able to trick him, but overall the combat itself was extremely simple regardless of input method. The majority of bosses in particular required the least amount of sword finesse in the entire game, which seems backwards.
You can disable it after the tutorial segments. You cannot turn off Fi, however, which is a much bigger hindrance to the game.
...this was supposed to be an edit. Oops.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I didn't hate the controls before the game came out, I hated the controls because when I played it they flat out did not work.
It was like Miyamoto's E3 reveal, except worse.
I'd totally give the game a second chance if the controls actually worked as advertised.
Snapshot King
Member
I'm not sure if this makes me upset or if I want to applaud you. Good job.
This happens because the analog stick is not a natural medium. Aiming with the analog stick is not natural either. It's something that grows on you. By contrast, motion controls are obvious from the moment you use it (in fact, I think this is one reason why the delay is so noticeable for you).
It is a lot like playing a fighting game with a D-Pad or an analog stick. It's faster with a D-Pad since it's simpler (only a button) while the analog stick has to deal with degrees of movement (it's faster to press a button than it is to tap an analog stick).
There are those who only want to use D-Pads since it is faster and more accurate for them; and there are those that wouldn't ever dream of using the D-Pad, since it's as if it's robbing them of a smoother experience. I understand your point in regards to swordfighting.
However, this still leaves the items....
TheCongressman1
Member
Yeah, this is one of my biggest problems. Besides that, the world structure and the empty sky bothered me the most.
Snapshot King
Member
I see what you're saying, but I disagree about motion controls being inherently natural. They'd be inherently natural if they were perfect and 1:1 all the time, but they're clearly not, and a delay sure as hell isn't natural at all.
I don't want to sound like an elitist but the example you used is completely backwards. The argument with fighting games is not between d-pads and analogs, its about d-pads and arcade joysticks, and both of those are actually button based, a joystick just hits microswitches, the only difference is the throw(distance traveled between input and activation of button/microswitches) but both camps merely use the input that they feel can provide them with the fastest, most accurate and most precise controls.
People who use arcade sticks aren't using them for a "smoother" experience, they're using it primarily because its faster, though admittedly, many (like myself) also prefer the feel of an arcade stick.
Must've had some interference, which admittedly is pretty annoying. Something kept throwing me off centre when I was playing it too. You can adjust the sensitivity of the pointer in the Wii menu, or at least check what's causing it.
TheCongressman1
Member
It's true that true 1:1 would have been the most natural option. As far as the delay goes, I never really noticed it unless I went wild with it, which you aren't supposed to do. There isn't any need to as it hurts your performance in combat anyway.
Snapshot King
Member
Eh, you're lucky then. I noticed it every single time I swung and it annoyed me to no end.
Haunted
Member
Now that's a real improvement.
TheCongressman1
Member
For things like that, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to move around while they speak.