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Smash Bros Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread: Goodbye, Cherry-don

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Good Lord!

For someone like me, the level-editor itself isn't the best part. The best part for me is that the rest of you crazy fools can tinker around and make some great levels that I can just lazily have imported to my Wii everyday. This is incredible!!!

Man I wish this game had come out a year ago when I had 3 roommates.

I think this all but confirms that Mii's will be playable.
 
Insaniac said:
that wouldn't be much of a character maker, however.
Click to expand...

The problem with a character creator would be that nobody will EVER use the default characters then - Smash Tournaments would be just full of really boring stickfigure-like people that take Fox's speed, Bowser's strength, Jigglypuff's recovery, Donkey Kong's throws and Sheik's A-attacks... or something equally as broken or bland.

I really hate the prospect of character creation in fighting games. I actually think the idea Somnid suggested with "take a Mii then apply a default character's entire moveset to it" works for me.
 
SovanJedi said:
The problem with a character creator would be that nobody will EVER use the default characters then - Smash Tournaments would be just full of really boring stickfigure-like people that take Fox's speed, Bowser's strength, Jigglypuff's recovery, Donkey Kong's throws and Sheik's A-attacks... or something equally as broken or bland.

I really hate the prospect of character creation in fighting games. I actually think the idea Somnid suggested with "take a Mii then apply a default character's entire moveset to it" works for me.
Click to expand...

well thats why there are RULES in tournaments. Don't allow custom chars in tournaments. And Sakurai could just make Mii characters unselectable over matchmaking wifi. It'd be more for the fun of playing with your friends
 
SovanJedi said:
I really hate the prospect of character creation in fighting games. I actually think the idea Somnid suggested with "take a Mii then apply a default character's entire moveset to it" works for me.
Click to expand...

This still gives an advantage in tournament play in that if you pick a Mii, your opponent essentially does not know which character you are until they actually fight you and find out.
 
Some kind of character creator is the only feature this game is lacking now.

Go, Sakurai! The last strike!


You can choose from any move, from any characters move sets, and you assign them to each. (all B specials, A neutral, A tilt, A smash, etc)
Click to expand...

That wouldn't work due to things like tails and wings. If there's a Mii character, I think they all will have the same moveset, probably based on Wii Sports and Wii Play.

For a character creator not related to Miis, I'm hoping for something closer to a character editor:

1-Choose a character preset based on any of the characters in the game.

2-Visually, it would start like the fighting polygons from the first SSB or the Wireframes from Melee, but then the player would be able to customize its looks with clothing, faces, hair, etc.

3-Choose its Special moves from a list of compatible ones for the model chosen ("A" and "Smash" moves would entirely depend on the preset, and wouldn't be customizable).

4-Choose stats based on a limited amount of points, like speed, weight, floatness and power.

5-Choose taunts and victory poses from any of the ones available in the game.

That way, the "Create a character" feature wouldn't break the game, but wouldn't be utterly uncustomizable.
 
The reason SSBB exists is to be a fanservice game (and boy are they piling on the fanserice). Unless character 'creation' involved combining parts from various Nintendo characters into some hideous chimera, I don't think it'd work.

SovanJedi said:
I really hate the prospect of character creation in fighting games. I actually think the idea Somnid suggested with "take a Mii then apply a default character's entire moveset to it" works for me.
Click to expand...

That aside, I don't see any issue with character creation in fighting games in general, assuming any created specific movesets are balanced, or the created characters essentially play identical to a pre-existing character, since it's just aesthetics.
 
My problem with character creation is that I spend more time playing with the characters I created rather than play with the characters in the game.
 
Insaniac said:
wouldn't it be fun to have a simple character maker which worked something like this:

You choose a Mii to represent your char.

You can choose from any move, from any characters move sets, and you assign them to each. (all B specials, A neutral, A tilt, A smash, etc)

Then use your Mii! (wouldn't care if it could be used on wifi or not, but probably not)

could get more complex, by being able to modify run/walk speed, friction, gravity

Things like fox's blaster move puts a little blaster model on the Mii's hip so when he shoots he grabs the blaster, haha!

I would like to see a Mii Falcon punch captain falcon.
Click to expand...

I thought of something like that, but then a mii might be too good. I was thinking they should make mii weight classes. for example, if your mii fighter is heavyweight, he can choose from DK's, bowser's, ike's, and dedede's movesets, but not kirby's. Mii should have wii sports/fitness things for "A" moves though.

I hope the level editor lets you make scrolling levels like poke floats
 
My jaw is stuck in the "hang open in shock" position.

It really seems like they're dedicated to letting you use SD cards without any of the copying mess that accompanies everything else on the Wii, nice to see someone setting an example.

I wonder if we'll be able to use our own pics for BGs and import music off the card, too? The possibilities are so endless, my mind is blanking to protect itself from being blown to bits from the sheer awesomeness.
 
Pureauthor said:
...How is that a problem?
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When I play against other people in games with character creation I really want to use characters that are already in the game, but usually I'm playing competitively and I have no choice but to pick the character I created. I can't really explain why but I've always done this in fighting games with character creation.
 
I'm thinking the competitive community will dig the custom level editor. Especially since they whore Final Destination in SSBM, they'll probably make a shitload of strictly flat levels.
 
For those looking for an SD card:

http://www.meritline.com/116-217-with-119-094.html

$23.99 (After 10% coupon code) Free shipping.
2 GB (max supported by Wii)
MicroSD (fits cell phones, GPS devices, etc)
SD adapter (fits Wii, cameras, etc)
USB adapter (connects to your computer)

I might get one of these myself, since I'm looking into getting a microSD for my cellphone anyway (for free GPS, I've got an unlocked blackjack, if you've done this, PM me plz :D ).


I'll probably want 2 cards, so a standard SD for the Wii might be better (cheaper).

(Yes prices will fall before Brawl comes out, but some people may have other uses for an SD card now, and I saw this deal pop up.)
 
SD support is so awesome. Means those that don't have their Wii's connected to the Internet can download stages in a zip and whack them on a SD card, which is awesome for my friend who only has dial up (lol i know).
 
Livin_Lovin said:
I'm thinking the competitive community will dig the custom level editor. Especially since they whore Final Destination in SSBM, they'll probably make a shitload of strictly flat levels.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna make a level that's a box with only one way out.

You can really build up smash % in it :D
 
Pureauthor said:
...How is that a problem?
Click to expand...
It would be poor design choice to include a character editor in the game, and it will be poor design choice to include TOO MANY options in the game. From what I have seen, I think Sakurai is walking the fine line. Let's hope he doesn't fall off it.

Edit: You hear me Sakurai? DON'T FALL OFF IT. DO NOT Overwhelm the user like they were in Perfect Dark!
 
TheKingsCrown said:
It would be poor design choice to include a character editor in the game, and it will be poor design choice to include TOO MANY options in the game. From what I have seen, I think Sakurai is walking the fine line. Let's hope he doesn't fall off it.
Click to expand...

You obviously haven't been reading my posts.
 
TheKingsCrown said:
It would be poor design choice to include a character editor in the game, and it will be poor design choice to include TOO MANY options in the game. From what I have seen, I think Sakurai is walking the fine line. Let's hope he doesn't fall off it.
Click to expand...
The problem with too many options is when you have to fine tune them. If everything is set up perfectly I see no reason for them to not put in as many options as they see fit. They could always hide the advanced options so only hardcore users know how to use it.
I do see your point though, if you see too many options then the player might get frustrated. However, if they organize it well it shouldn't be a problem.


Edit: I don't want a character creator, but maybe a character editor, where you can stick the stickers on the characters already in the game or give them new pallets. That would be awesome.
 
OliveJuice said:
The problem with too many options is when you have to fine tune them. If everything is set up perfectly I see no reason for them to not put in as many options as they see fit. They could always hide the advanced options so only hardcore users know how to use it.
I do see your point though, if you see too many options then the player might get frustrated. However, if they organize it well it shouldn't be a problem.
Click to expand...

You should never include so many options in the game that the end user will manipulate them more than they will actually play the game. Most users will tire of this quickly and ignore them, and IMO it detracts from the experience.

GoldenEye is one game I can think of that had a great balance, although everyone screamed for more of course.
 
Wow, this game is packed. I can imagine people who didn't like Melee buying this just because it has so many stuff in it. Sadly, its missing voice chat which is a very simple feature compared to the rest of the stuff, I hope they delayed the game to implement that as well.
 
TheKingsCrown said:
It would be poor design choice to include a character editor in the game, and it will be poor design choice to include TOO MANY options in the game. From what I have seen, I think Sakurai is walking the fine line. Let's hope he doesn't fall off it.

Edit: You hear me Sakurai? DON'T FALL OFF IT. DO NOT Overwhelm the user like they were in Perfect Dark!
Click to expand...

Err...run this by me again. Why on Earth is featuring more features BAD? I'm not understanding you.
 
TheKingsCrown said:
You should never include so many options in the game that the end user will manipulate them more than they will actually play the game. Most users will tire of this quickly and ignore them, and IMO it detracts from the experience.

GoldenEye is one game I can think of that had a great balance, although everyone screamed for more of course.
Click to expand...
Actually, I think it's the opposite. When I play a new game I usually don't touch the options or anything, I just play the game. After I get bored of the main game, or just want to do something else, I might play around with the options and see what else I can do with the game. If I can do an infinite amount of new things then I will be playing the game forever.

I think Sakurai will manage to put in as many options as he wants. He probably knows that some people will never touch it, so the basics are already set and the player will never have to mess around with the options. There are also hardcore players, like some of us, that want more and more smash so we will continue to play around with the more advanced options. And for people like us, the more options the better. However, those options should be unique and freshen up the game or else it would just be useless. I think I'm rambling on so I'll just say I have complete trust in Sakurai and Co. They'll make it work.
 
TheKingsCrown said:
It would be poor design choice to include a character editor in the game, and it will be poor design choice to include TOO MANY options in the game. From what I have seen, I think Sakurai is walking the fine line. Let's hope he doesn't fall off it.

Edit: You hear me Sakurai? DON'T FALL OFF IT. DO NOT Overwhelm the user like they were in Perfect Dark!
Click to expand...

Eh... I disagree. It's not only a matter of number of options, but how they are presented. In Smash Melee, it was possible to choose the characters, then the stage and start a battle, without even looking at the match options menu.

Perfect Dark had an unintuitive menu with every match option, including stage selection and character selection, in a single screen, player selection and team selection only appearing in side menus which replaced the main one, but still in the same screen, and those menus were multiplied when there was more than one player.

Besides, the different types of AI with their own playstyle, Melee had as many options as Perfect Dark, and yet still presented them in a very simple way. I'm sure that Sakurai could yet again add more options without making unintuitive menus.

Besides, a character creator wouldn't be among the match options, and Melee had lots of different game modes accessible through menus, so one extra name in there won't hurt anything. That said, even after this update, I'm not seriously expecting a character creator, I just think that, personally, it'd be a fun option.
 
I really hope it's possible to transfer the custom stage data from SD to PC and copy them however you like, unlike VC games. The possibilities would be endless, even "more" endless than they are as it stands.
 
*After the shock*
:p

What's kinda ...weird about all this, is that ...all this "megatons" (Stage Builder, Sonic, Wi-Fi, etc..)...

And apparently, the really "hidden stuff"..the "real megatons" are going to be announced aroound and after the release of the game.. :O! (?!)
 
fernoca said:
*After the shock*
:p

What's kinda ...weird about all this, is that ...all this "megatons" (Stage Builder, Sonic, Wi-Fi, etc..)...

And apparently, the really "hidden stuff"..the "real megatons" are going to be announced aroound and after the release of the game.. :O! (?!)
Click to expand...

like megaman and cloud (because he was in the kingdom hearts game for GBA)
 
Pureauthor said:
The reason SSBB exists is to be a fanservice game (and boy are they piling on the fanserice). Unless character 'creation' involved combining parts from various Nintendo characters into some hideous chimera, I don't think it'd work.



That aside, I don't see any issue with character creation in fighting games in general, assuming any created specific movesets are balanced, or the created characters essentially play identical to a pre-existing character, since it's just aesthetics.
Click to expand...

The problem I have with character creation, I think you just answered in your own post - despite what it may have sounded like my main complaint wasn't entirely to do with balance.

Instead of picking an iconic character in Nintendo's all-star roster and taking the time to go with their strengths and weaknesses and being rewarded by kicking ass with YOUR favourite character, you'll be going with some user-created nobody that is neither charming nor particularly interesting to look that. Being a fanservice game as you say there is a lot to be said about taking a character represented as closely to their actual roots being set upon other characters grounded in their own roots.

I hated it in the latest Mortal Kombat game (Armageddon? I forget the name of it) - whatever you may feel towards the original roster of characters that have been in the game from day one, it feels really horrendously wrong to also have this hideously designed purple/green/lilac monstrosity strutting about using Scorpion's Hookshot, Sub Zero's Freeze attack, Raiden's teleportation etc, even disregarding the balancing issues that such a behemoth would present. It's taking the best bits from characters without BEING those characters. And the largest part of Smash Bros.' appeal is to play as these identities from all the different games, from the most well-known to the most obscure.

Maybe I'm just taking all this too seriously, thinking about it... Eh.
 
Quite the substantial design choice, and update I might add. I'm not much for building/modding levels, but I know a few friends who are and they're also into this series. Should be fun.
 
I think the bullets on the back of the box will have to be reversed, like, into "features not in this game".

...And now I can't think of any.
 
Stage Builder! Holy crap! :D

Man I go to be early for a second time and Sakurai reveals another megaton! :lol The last time I went to bed early, Sonic was revealed. Maybe I should go to be early every night. :lol
 
Teasel said:
i just noticed there is a limit to how much stuff you can place around
limit.jpg
Click to expand...
I guess you can't fill up the whole screen with blocks. But look how much space a piece of ladder takes (the small sliver of pink in that bar). I don't think we're really going to have to worry about limitations.
 
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