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[jaxword]

As I said, yes. My grandparents had a few pet dogs throughout the years. Jeez. :| Also my grandfather was veterinarian.

Is this a common view with the majority of the religion?

 

[dejay]

Lol I'd be surprised if many Jews (and non Jews) have eaten anything from that list.

I don't think I've eaten anything on it myself.

I've eaten 8. 9 if you count crocodile as alligator.

 

[Lerozz]

I remember when i was first learning English spending time trying to translate all the bad language i knew.

Arabic "ibnil kelb" literally translates to "son of a dog". That doesn't sound insulting, so I figure closest would be "Son of a bitch."

This is probably a situation where Dog and Bitch are interchangeable here.

I guess you can simply leave it as it is as "bitch" literally refers to a female dog anyways. xD

 

[VariantX04]

Is this a common view with the majority of the religion?

Not at all. Especially not in Saudi.

 

[SneakyStephan]

that's bullshit

regarding dogs as unclean is a muslim specific issue, if he wasn't a muslim he could still be an idiot but he sure as fuck wouldn't have problem with dogs

Are you kidding me?
Muslims don't react that way to dogs (let alone the word dog), the guy was just an idiot, and imo OP should have punched him in the ugly clerk face when he kept harassing his girlfriend.

I have plenty of muslim friends (maroccans) , and when one would come over to my house back when I had a dog they would pet it, play with it like any other person and show it affection.
They didn't take offense to it being a pet, to it being mentioned in conversation or to anything like that at all.

Maybe the clerk thought she was being snide and calling him a dog (dog being used as an insult, like cunt is over here, and touching your ear is in Italy -oh you Italians , you so crazy -), in which case you set the misunderstanding straight like an adult.

The guy may be a douche, but the way people here react to muslims , it's no wonder that some get a short fuse after having to deal with all this crap from random people and go off at the wrong person, I certainly would.

 

[Ydahs]

Are Muslims are allowed to have dogs in the house as pets?

Whether they are or not, it doesn't matter (don't know, but heard people say no). They're not hated by Islam (but are by some Muslims). They're considered unclean, that is all.

Muslims cannot treat them any differently than other creatures, or else they're committing a sin. It's a creation of God, so they have to accept that if they're unclean, God made them unclean. If not, well they're hating God's creation so sucks to be them.

 

[SmokyDave]

Aren't there occasional news stories of Muslim bus and taxi drivers refusing guide dogs?

 

[VariantX04]

Regarding dogs in Islam, it really depends on who you ask. Conservative Saudis will tell you dogs are unclean and are not appropriate as house pets. And the word dog in Arabic ('kalb') is considered an insult.

 

[jaxword]

Not at all. Especially not in Saudi.

Right. So Zapages' personal anecdote does not represent the majority of Islam.

So it's safe to say the original conclusion stands, this man just happens to take the term "Dog" to the extreme level of being insulting to his religion. Seems cut and dry, no need for apologists or convoluted logic loopholes to explain why he can/cannot do this.

 

[Soda]

Use the NATO alphabet next time to make sure not to offend anybody. Seriously I don't see the problem and why the airline guy freaked out so much about that. Probably had a bad day, is underpaid, etc. whatnot.

Interesting how dog is offensive but W as in Whiskey isn't lol.

 

[Zapages]

Is this a common view with the majority of the religion?

It depends on the school of thought again. Hanafi (largest school of thought in Islam) and Malaki (nearly all of Muslims in Africa) allow dogs from what I understand. But we are allowed to have dogs as pets, and they are suppose to stay in the kennel/dog house type of area outside the home.

Map of School's of thought in Islam: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Madhhab_Map2.png

 

[Dennis]

Aren't there occasional news stories of Muslim bus and taxi drivers refusing guide dogs?

Yes there are. There is definitely some muslims who have a religiously motivated animosity to dogs. Misguided or not, its certainly there.

 

[BigPickZel]

Maybe he had a dog when he was a kid, and the dog turned out to be a real jerk. Like the dog Hitler or something.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

How come ottoman ain't here yet? Was he banned or something?

 

[Phobophile]

Just learn the NATO phonetic alphabet.

 

[Zapages]

Right. So Zapages' personal anecdote does not represent the majority of Islam.

So it's safe to say the original conclusion stands, this man just happens to take the term "Dog" to the extreme level of being insulting to his religion. Seems cut and dry, no need for apologists or convoluted logic loopholes to explain why he can/cannot do this.

As I stated earlier, it depends on what school of thought in Islam.

How come ottoman ain't here yet? Was he banned or something?

I am doing fairly good job, in describing everything. Won't you agree?

 

[womfalcs3]

Regarding dogs in Islam, it really depends on who you ask. Conservative Saudis will tell you dogs are unclean and are not appropriate as house pets. And the word dog in Arabic ('kalb') is considered an insult.

So is the word "bitch" in English.

 

[nib95]

So is the word "bitch" in English.

So is the word dog lol...

Women use it to describe (bad) Men all the time!

 

[VariantX04]

So is the word "bitch" in English.

There's a word for "bitch" in Arabic, too. I'm referring to the word "dog" which is used to describe canines.

 

[Zapages]

Here's a good article for you guys to read about Dogs and Islam:

Animal Abuse and Welfare in Islam
by Dr. Ayoub M. Banderker (BVMCh),
veterinary surgeon

Animal abuse, cruelty, and/or neglect form part of the many social ills plaguing the Muslim community.

Last Ramadaan, I wrote an article highlighting the phenomenon whereby misinformed Muslims took their dogs (and/or cats) to the animal hospitals or mobile clinics during Ramadaan, to have them put to death by lethal injection. The reason given by the majority of these Muslims was that Islam forbids them to keep a dog. Also encountered was when an animal that had been ill for a prolonged time and the disease had progressed to an almost terminal state was it only then brought in for veterinary attention. When asked why they waited so long, the Muslim owner would use Islam as a reason, stating that it is not permissible to touch a dog. This still happens.

Alhamdulillaa, during this Ramadaan, there has been a significant reduction in the number of Muslims who have gone to animal welfare organizations to have their animals put to death.

However, cruelty and neglect of animals still occur daily throughout the world. The approach of the holiday season sees many animal welfare organizations get an influx of dogs and cats brought in to be put to death during this time. Healthy, happy animals belonging to Muslims are also brought in to be put to death. This is a very disturbing and un-Islamic action. If one cannot afford to feed, shelter, and maintain one’s animals, and a new home cannot be found for them, take them to one of the many animal welfare organizations where there is at least a chance of the animal’s finding a new home. The real tragedy is that many of these Muslims still do this in the name of Islam and openly express such ignorant views. This contributes to propaganda against Islam. When a non-Muslim is cruel to an animal, it is considered an individual’s action, but when a Muslim does it, non-Muslims see it as an Islamic practice.

I cannot overemphasize the need to have one’s cats or dogs sterilized. Having pets sterilized would help to prevent unwanted litters, thereby reducing the amount of unwanted animals. It is much better than abandoning the animals, which many Muslims are also guilty of. Abandoned pets cannot fend for themselves, with the result that they starve and experience untold suffering, cruelty, and an eventual, agonizing death.

All animals are a part of Allah’s creation and belong to Allah (swt). Muslims are custodians of this beautiful planet. How we care for animals and what we use them for we will be accountable for to Allah (swt). All of creation is Muslim, submitting to Allah’s will—only man and jinn are granted a freedom of choice. So yes, even animals are Muslim.

In the Holy Qur’aan (S4:36) we are advised to do good to “… what your right hands own …” According to the commentator Imaam Faghruddin al-Rhazi, this refers to all those who have no civil rights, including animals. Thus, the verse lays down the duty of being good toward animals.

All things “…have been created for you ...” for our benefit (S2:29). It thus becomes our duty to protect, employ with dignity, and promote the well-being of any animal in our care. In this way, we are expressing our thankfulness to Allah (swt) for His blessings in a practical manner. (Qur’anic Foundations and Structure of Muslim Society, Mawlana F.R. Ansari, vol. 2, pp. 125-126)

Every animal has been created for a purpose. It is a duty upon every human being to respect Allah’s creation. If we ill treat any of His creation, we will be questioned about it on the Day of Judgment. Sayyidina ’Umar (ra) was very concerned about the animals during his rule as Amir or head of the Islamic empire.

Let me clarify a few myths and make a few points:

1. It is NOT haraam to own a dog, though it is not hygienic to keep a dog in the house.

2. It is NOT haraam to touch a dog or any other animal. If the saliva of a dog touches you or any part of your clothing, then it is required of you to wash the body part touched and the item of clothing touched by the dog’s mouth or snout.

3. It is incumbent upon all Muslims who own animals, whether for farming or work purposes or as pets, to provide adequate shelter, food, water, and, when needed, veterinary care for their animals. Arrangements must be made, if one is going to be away from home, to have one’s animals taken care of as well.

4. It is haraam to keep a dog or any other animal on a short lead for long periods without food, water, and shelter. Dogs need exercise and are social creatures who form organized “family” structures in nature. Dog owners therefore need to spend time daily with their dogs.

5. It is cruel, and therefore haraam, to keep any animal in a cage so small that it cannot behave in a natural way.

6. Fireworks cause untold suffering to most domestic animals because of their acute sense of hearing.

7. It is haraam to participate in any blood “sport,” like dog fighting and trophy hunting.

No animal has been cursed in any way. Animals are referred to in many instances in the Qu’ran. In Surah Kahf, mention is made of the companions of the Cave and their dog. (S18: 18-22)

We would love for Allah to bestow His mercy upon us, so let’s show mercy and compassion to all His creation. This will also give non-Muslims a true reflection of Islam, aiding da’wah.

There are many Muslims who care well for their animals, and this article is aimed at those who are misinformed.

The appeal goes out to those Muslims: Please do not abuse or neglect any animal. This gives a distorted picture to others who are not Muslim.

May Allah be pleased with our efforts.

Source: http://www.islamicconcern.com/dogs.asp

 

[strata8]

Well Jews wont eat ANY of the following, according to wikipedia:

Wombat
Worm
X-ray fish
Yapok

The horror!

Spoiler

That list seems mostly bunk

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I am doing fairly good job, in describing everything. Won't you agree?

Sure you are Zap =)

That article is nice.

 

[Raist]

2. It is NOT haraam to touch a dog or any other animal. If the saliva of a dog touches you or any part of your clothing, then it is required of you to wash the body part touched and the item of clothing touched by the dog’s mouth or snout.

Muslim vets must have a hell of a day washing themselves every 10mins.

 

[Phantast2k]

When I lived in the dorm an Afghani neighbor (exchange student) once told me that he'd never shake my hand again because he saw me petting a friend's dog. A few weeks before that he asked me not to use "god" (and instead either ALLALALAL or the German Gott) in our conversations since it's DOG spelled backwards and thus showing "once again the infidel nature of the Western societies" or something along those lines..

I never talked to him again, but I still see him sometimes. He grew a beard is wearing traditional garments (a man-skirt and such).
Supposedly they're planning an attack on the upcoming FIFA women's world cup in Germany and well, it wouldn't surprise me if he is involved in that..

 

[Easy_D]

There's a word for "bitch" in Arabic, too. I'm referring to the word "dog" which is used to describe canines.

I think he was hinting at the fact that bitch is the english word for female dogs

 

[womfalcs3]

There's a word for "bitch" in Arabic, too. I'm referring to the word "dog" which is used to describe canines.

What's the word for "bitch" in Arabic? Kalba?

"Dog" doesn't have to be an insult in Arabic. It depends on the context in which it's being used. And in Islam, dogs aren't insulting. They're just considered unclean. That doesn't mean we can't have dogs or treat dogs humanely.

 

[Zapages]

Sure you are Zap =)

That article is nice.

Thank you

When I lived in the dorm an Afghani neighbor (exchange student) once told me that he'd never shake my hand again because he saw me petting a friend's dog. A few weeks before that he asked me not to use "god" (and instead either ALLALALAL or the German Gott) in our conversations since it's DOG spelled backwards and thus showing "once again the infidel nature of the Western societies" or something along those lines..

I never talked to him again, but I still see him sometimes. He grew a beard is wearing traditional garments (a man-skirt and such).
Supposedly they're planning an attack on the upcoming FIFA women's world cup in Germany and well, it wouldn't surprise me if he is involved in that..

The guy's description describe what I know as FOBs who live around where I live. lol

WTF?!!! Report that guy to police or something!

 

[Shaka]

When I lived in the dorm an Afghani neighbor (exchange student) once told me that he'd never shake my hand again because he saw me petting a friend's dog. A few weeks before that he asked me not to use "god" (and instead either ALLALALAL or the German Gott) in our conversations since it's DOG spelled backwards and thus showing "once again the infidel nature of the Western societies" or something along those lines..

I never talked to him again, but I still see him sometimes. He grew a beard is wearing traditional garments (a man-skirt and such).
Supposedly they're planning an attack on the upcoming FIFA women's world cup in Germany and well, it wouldn't surprise me if he is involved in that..

lol Are many the anti-Islam folk as suspicious of your neighbours? Just curious. Or were you joking? It's hard to tell around here.

 

[VariantX04]

What's the word for "bitch" in Arabic? Kalba?

"Dog" doesn't have to be an insult in Arabic. It depends on the context in which it's being used. And in Islam, dogs aren't insulting. They're just considered unclean. That doesn't mean we can't have dogs or treat dogs humanely.

While you have a point, I'm referring to its use in Saudi. If you call someone a "kalb", expect a retaliatory response, if not a flogging. Dogs aren't taken too kindly here. You only see them in more liberal households.

 

[pieatorium]

So is the word dog lol...

Cat can also be used as an insult at least here

 

[lexi]

But we are allowed to have dogs as pets, and they are suppose to stay in the kennel/dog house type of area outside the home.

So it's okay to have a dog if it's kept outside.

But if it's kept inside are the owners to be put to death, or just the dog?

 

[Zapages]

So it's okay to have a dog if it's kept outside.

But if it's kept inside are the owners to be put to death, or just the dog?

No one is put to death.

 

[lexi]

No one is put to death.

I was being facetious, but thanks

 

[azi]

So it's okay to have a dog if it's kept outside.

But if it's kept inside are the owners to be put to death, or just the dog?

your dog will be stoned to death by the religious police...seriously nobody would give a fuck if you have a dog in your house.

 

[Phantast2k]

The guy's description describe what I know as FOBs who live around where I live. lol

WTF?!!! Report that guy to police or something!

By saying "they're planning an attack on the upcoming FIFA women's world cup in Germany" I meant that islamists with some ties in Germany are planning that (according to news outlets). And I wouldn't be surprised if he's a part of that.
Just a month ago the head of an al-qaida cell, engineering major "Abdeladim El-K.", was arrested for planning a bomb attack in Germany. Also one of the 9/11 terrorists went to my uni.
So yeah, as I said, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the guy was involved in some way.

lol Are many the anti-Islam folk as suspicious of your neighbours? Just curious. Or were you joking? It's hard to tell around here.

I don't quite follow you. It's not a joke and I could even drop his name here but I think it's bannable offence so I won't.

 

[Jeels]

There are plenty of households in Saudi with dogs but some people (religious zealots and their followers) consider it a sin to own a dog.

Even if it is a sin to own a dog, people go oveboard like the guy you talked to. If anything he is being unislamic by acting so rude. Plus, it was never that you couldn't use the word or anything, the prophet still showed compassion to all animals. This world has become so silly.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

What's the word for "bitch" in Arabic? Kalba?

"Dog" doesn't have to be an insult in Arabic. It depends on the context in which it's being used. And in Islam, dogs aren't insulting. They're just considered unclean. That doesn't mean we can't have dogs or treat dogs humanely.

He's talking about "ga7ba" or "gahhba", there's no real way to spell it in english.

And that is weird dude, I never knew dog would spark up such a problem.

 

[jaxword]

Even if it is a sin to own a dog, people go oveboard like the guy you talked to. If anything he is being unislamic by acting so rude. Plus, it was never that you couldn't use the word or anything, the prophet still showed compassion to all animals. This world has become so silly.

It hasn't become silly at all; it's always been this way, and that's part of the origin of so many of our current problems.

We're just HEARING about it now. Just imagine how many stories like this happened across the world for the past, say, 50 years before internet?

There've always been fanatics, and there always will be, as long as it's acceptable to do so.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Well Jews wont eat ANY of the following, according to wikipedia:

most of the jews in my neighborhood are all over the magpie

 

[7aged]

While you have a point, I'm referring to its use in Saudi. If you call someone a "kalb", expect a retaliatory response, if not a flogging. Dogs aren't taken too kindly here. You only see them in more liberal households.

Not really true. the bedouins love their Salougis

 

[Lamel]

There's nothing wrong with saying dog in Islam...in fact many people in my family even own dogs and I play with my friends' dogs all the time. Now the whole cleaning if saliva touches doesn't bother me because I find that disgusting to begin with, so I clean anyway.


This clerk/attendant was just stupid. Or maybe he took it as the insult "bitch" (as you said he was Indian, and in that culture dog translates to bitch sometimes, even if unintentional). It's not really a big deal.

 

[markot]

Oh, and considering the kind of lashes you can get in Saudi Arabia, your gf got off lightly

 

[7aged]

Regarding the OP,

The phone clerk is an asshole but I think people are getting carried away on the general muslim attitudes to dogs thing.

Yes, the word "dog" is derogatory in Arabic, but it's no different to say "ass" in English.

 

[Metroid Killer]

In the 6 months I have owned a dog, muslims NEVER pet or come over to say hello, on the contrary they will either walk away or go in a big circle around us. And everyday I meet a handful of people who come over and pet my dog.

Always assumed it was religion thing(I guess the thread confirms that), and that it's too bad they have such a view on dogs.

 

[Dali]

Wow, I completely misinterpreted the indian guy's problem from seemingly every other person itt. I took the word itself to be offensive as reversed it spels God. That's why the muslim journal never fully prints the word "God". It's always printed as "G-d"!

Always assumed it was religion thing(I guess the thread confirms that), and that it's too bad they have such a view on dogs.

It's a Muslim thing as much as thinking the earth is 2000 years old is a christian thing. My parents are muslim and growing up we always had a dog.

 

[Enosh]

Are you kidding me?
Muslims don't react that way to dogs (let alone the word dog), the guy was just an idiot, and imo OP should have punched him in the ugly clerk face when he kept harassing his girlfriend.

I have plenty of muslim friends (maroccans) , and when one would come over to my house back when I had a dog they would pet it, play with it like any other person and show it affection.
They didn't take offense to it being a pet, to it being mentioned in conversation or to anything like that at all.

Maybe the clerk thought she was being snide and calling him a dog (dog being used as an insult, like cunt is over here, and touching your ear is in Italy -oh you Italians , you so crazy -), in which case you set the misunderstanding straight like an adult.

The guy may be a douche, but the way people here react to muslims , it's no wonder that some get a short fuse after having to deal with all this crap from random people and go off at the wrong person, I certainly would.

the fuck are you talking about?

-he had a problem with someone mentioning the word dog
-certain muslims regard dogs and anything associated with dogs as unclean

if he wasn't a muslim he simply wouldn't have the idea implanted into his head that dogs are unclean and go off on someone mentioning the word dog, I didn't say anywhere that all muslims think dogs are unclean so you example with your friends is worthless, I am talking about this guy

 

[Metroid Killer]

It's a Muslim thing as much as thinking the earth is 2000 years old is a christian thing. My parents are muslim and growing up we always had a dog.

I know, my view is merely anecdotal (and I was only referring the the people I meet when I said: it's too bad they have such a view on dogs). Nevertheless as anecdotal as it may be, doesn't change the fact that muslims in my local area sure have a different view(imo an unfortunate view) on dogs compared to others. And I'm defintely not the only one who has noticed this.

 

[WickedAngel]

I understand the guy in the OP is a bit extreme, but help me understand his POV.

Why would Allah create such creatures if even naming them is a grave offense?

They're the Voldemort of the animal kingdom.

 

[OttomanScribe]

If I am correct in interpreting this, as the details are a little scant, it seems that the agent found the word "dog" offensive.

I believe, under traditional Islamic rules, that culture does not view dogs in a positive light. They are not to be pets because they are unclean, and thus are not "good" creatures. Muhammad is said to have a negative view on dogs.

So I can see some extremely religious fanatic completely freaking out and thinking she (a woman, at that) is bringing up an unclean animal of your religion.

Sort of like, say, talking about really good food to a Jewish person and comparing it to really succulent pork. Oops, forgot, sorry.

Just to add kindling to the fire, it should also be noted that the Prophet had a cat (Muezza) who he loved very much. Islam looks very negatively on those who mistreat or abuse cats and Muslims are encouraged highly to own and love cats as pets.

So, Cats vs. Dogs, go.

The Messenger of Allah (sullAllahu alayhi wasalaam) made an entire column of soldiers go off the road so as not to wake a sleeping dog and her pups. Another time he was standing near a well with some companions, and a woman whose heart was full of sin walked down the road. There was a well nearby, she was walking and saw a dog with nothing to drink, laying, dying from thirst nearby. She got her shoe, went to the well, filled it with water and gave the dog a drink. The Messenger of God (sullAllahu alayhi wasalaam) said that for that one act, all her sins were forgiven.

I think that cats are beloved housepets, my cat is named Muezza and there are hygiene issues with dogs, but this hatred of dogs is jahili (ignorant). Part of it is because of the fear of rabies in many countries. Having seen the mangy dogs in Bangladesh, I can understand a worry or a cultural stigma about them.

In the Maliki Madhab, a dog is not considered najas (unclean). Regardless, something being unclean does not mean that it is bad, or that it should be hated, it is simply about ritual purity. This hang up about dogs is inappropriate, and comes from culture. I personally have a huge problem with it.

I don't keep dogs in my house, but were I to have a big backyard, I would keep one myself. It is a pain to clean after it (both myself and more generally the garden) but cleansing is an act of worship, and no one should complain for a chance to make wudu.

 

[Rapstah]

So essentially his hate of dogs was really cultural from India and he's trying to excuse it religiously?