7DollarHagane
Banned
Theres a site called youtube
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So Capcom released an Early Access game, priced like a full one
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Theres a site called youtube
Hmm.. 30 mins finishing story mode nets you enough FM for Alex.. Of course there's also Survival Mode/Levelling and the wins needed for that should not exceed more than 200 (estimate) and that should give you enough to purchase all 6 character DLC..
So now that you're set for 6 months, you're pretty much playing regularly not even minding your FM and oh wow you may have enough after 6 months for the next batch of characters.
Now only if someone actually plays the game instead of spreading nonsense.
So you're admitting Capcom's doing a shitty job of teaching people how to play and are okay with them doing so.
I'll never get this. Just because you/we had to learn to play these games in a roundabout way new players should have to? In order to ensure healthy growth for any gaming community you should be looking at removing barriers to entry not enshrining them because "I had to" or "That's the way it is". YouTube videos and forum posts arent magic, and are often the best available content rather than the best possible content. There is nothing stopping developers from including similar (preferably superior) content in their games. Capcom does seem to be making some steps in this direction as theyve started a series of official character guides on YouTube (of course one wonders why they arent a) included in game and b) arent actually beginner guides as theyre very jargon heavy). The majority of the information the community gleans, beyond legitimately emergent stuff, is readily accessible to the developer.
Its not actually nonsense though, it will take you around 2000 wins to make 100,000 zeny so saying you need that many wins to get a character is technically correct. It just doesnt present the whole picture, as you said there are other avenues for earning zeny, of course you left out the fact that there are also other things that cost zeny beyond the characters. Really until more avenues for earning zeny are introduced into the game (as planned) its hard to draw any conclusions.
So you can get 100,000 FM per 30 minutes of playing?
There is training mode where there are tons of options to help you learn the game as well as movelist for each individual character. I don't know how much less accessible is that.
Zomba13
Member
The Story Mode FM bonuses are just a one time thing. I also don't think they are 10,000 FM because I've been trying to add up my FM and it doesn't mesh with what people are saying. I should have around 328,000 FM but only have 220,000. So either Story doesn't give 10,000 per character, Survival doesn't give any FM, or you don't get 1000FM per character level.
But it doesn't say what those moves do. Like, it doesn't say what changes about a move when V Trigger is active (just that it changes). It doesn't tell me what the effects of characters V-Triggers are. It doesn't offer basic character combos (which are supposed to come in March though). There just isn't much there to help new people at all.
You can get 100,000+ FM just by playing the Story Mode. And then some more playing survival while waiting for matches. The 2000 wins is a hyperbole that needs to stop because someone saw "oh 1 win nets me 50 fm" disregarding anything else to which the roadmap has also pointed out daily events to help gain FM.
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
Would it be ok for any other game to require someone to head to YouTube to learn how to play it? I didn't need to use YouTube to learn how to play The Last of Us.
Ono stated he wanted this SF to be the game that brought casuals back to the series. Asking them to use YouTube and forums to learn how to play seems like a poor way to do that?
s_mirage
Member
The thing is, if companies like Capcom are serious about getting more casuals involved in the FGC, it benefits them to at least try to explain basic game systems though tutorials and interaction, rather than expecting the player to do all the research themselves from videos. People coming in completely fresh might simply be unaware of any deeper levels of gameplay, get their asses handed to them constantly online, and just give up.
SF V's tutorial is probably the worst I've seen in recent years: it basically amounts to, "press forward to walk forward, press back to block, press up to jump, now you know how to play". It's too simplistic to really be of much use to anyone.
Telling players to 'fend for themselves' isn't good design when trying to get players to learn how to play their game.
This is a fighting game, where you need to experience going against people to actually learn because of how dynamic it is. Survival is there to test how far you can go with all the experiences you acclimated. I don't understand how this is less accessible to say Mortal Kombat/GG/KI and at this point this is nothing more than nitpicking.
Edit: I've gone through Gulity Gears training teaching all the basic but in the heat of competition that goes all out the window and rely on your instict. All I remembered was what did what. The same thing applies to MK as well as SF. This is not a single party experience where everything is static.
supernormal
Member
iunderstoodthatreference.gif
Yeah this is really becoming a common theme this gen. Either the games have issues that need to be fixed down the line or they give it to you piece by piece. I would have preferred if they did it like KI, where they had a free version with just Ryu then you could buy each character and mode as you wish or in a bundle etc,
You're joking right? That is literally the bare minimum they could have included. I honestly cant believe you feel that the inclusion of a characters move list is worth mentioning never mind worth lauding. Training mode doesnt *help* you learn the game, it simply gives you a space in which to do so.
Zomba13
Member
Becuase it doesn't tell you what the effects of moves are!
Some V-Triggers give you a glowy effect. No where does it say what that glowy actually means. It doesn't say "with this characters V-trigger atatcks now hit twice or shock or burn or let you do this move or add more hits to this special". The game doesn't tell you how to use an entire system which was added.
And at least GG and KI have more indepth tutorials in that they teach you the basics of the systems avilable, say when they would be used and then has you execute them (and then let you attempt some combos for each character but that is coming in march).
So basically any tutorial or training mode is useless because you just forget it when you actually fight?
So you're basically looking for a manual? Capcom posted videos explaining the game's mechanics I don't know how mich more clear you can get from that.
Just because you setup certain scenarios in Training Mode doesn't mean all players are going to have a clue what they mean, or what to do in them. Without direction, you're aimlessly wandering. So no, it's not approachable except by people who have a clue in terms of what they want to do.
Zomba13
Member
Something in game, perhaps in some kind of easily accessible move compendium (I don't know what it could be called or where it could be located) that told you the effects of certain moves a character posses.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Somehow people learned to play marvel vs capcom 2 without YouTube, forums, and had to pay 50 cents to play it vs the cpu for 10 minutes or so.
And they couldnt include these in the game because? It's almost worse if they're producing tutorial content and then inexplicably not including it, or any link or mention of it, in the game
And people used to die more from infections before penicillin was invented, should we go back to not using antibiotics? This senseless championing of exclusion is something fighting game enthusiasts really need to abandon, reminds me of Shoryuken from a decade or so ago
R_thanatos
Member
Why ?
You points are tied to your capcom network account for this game. if you log with the game on the same account , why shouldn't i get my stuff back ? it's the same account , including your rank.
I don't understand
Move compendium? So a move list..
Zomba13
Member
It's such a shame that we're not 15 years in the future where we could learn from the past and make things easier and better for people.
exactly. Which doesn't tell me what the V-Trigger effects are.I bought DRIVECLUB day one and played during the Beta. The game released unfinished and took a considerable amount of time before they even had online up and running properly. They fleshed out the game very well over the next several months, adding many of the features they originally announced would come with the game. Great game, but denying that it released in the same state that many Early Access games exist in, is nonsense.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
We had forums back then, iirc, as well as guides in print form.
There's no email/password registration for CFN. It's just an ID.
Its tied to your psn or steam account tho, thats where the actual dlc is. At least judging from the fact that a) thats what dictates your pre order costume and b) its nit cross platform like your CFN ID
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
The difference is this. You need to play against other people to learn when to use certain techniques, playing against other people does not teach you how to perform the technique. For example if I'm a noob and don't know what a cancel is getting my ass handed to me online isn't going to teach me that. SF4 at least showed you what a FADC was, how to perform it, and what situation it was good for. If that wasn't in the game a noob wouldn't learn how to perform it just from playing online. SF5 doesn't give you a clue as to what the V-skill and V-reversals for each character do.
I have played this game for a good 10 hours now and used around half of the cast. From what I have played I can say this :
This game doesn't cater to the casual or the fgc better (or even the same as ) than the current or previous gen fighters.
Let's run down the list
No story
No arcade mode ( seriously , you could not put a generic fight 9 guys then boss )
No challenges- why ? Sf4 had them (along with everything mentioned previously) . this is seriously confusing
The challenges were a great way to teach basic to advanced combos and also gave you a good understanding of the game engine
No lobbies for more than 2 people - how in the fuck did they miss this out at launch .you mean to tell me that in 2016 you can have 2-6 player lobbies or even spectator mode
Fightcade has spectator mode
The core gameplay may be good ( I need more time to have a solid opinion) but it's just overshadowed by the 2 hours I spent trying to find and invite my friend into a lobby and failing
This is pretty much a beta
This game doesn't cater to the casual or the fgc better (or even the same as ) than the current or previous gen fighters.
Let's run down the list
No story
No arcade mode ( seriously , you could not put a generic fight 9 guys then boss )
No challenges- why ? Sf4 had them (along with everything mentioned previously) . this is seriously confusing
The challenges were a great way to teach basic to advanced combos and also gave you a good understanding of the game engine
No lobbies for more than 2 people - how in the fuck did they miss this out at launch .you mean to tell me that in 2016 you can have 2-6 player lobbies or even spectator mode
Fightcade has spectator mode
The core gameplay may be good ( I need more time to have a solid opinion) but it's just overshadowed by the 2 hours I spent trying to find and invite my friend into a lobby and failing
This is pretty much a beta
7DollarHagane
Banned
A fighting game is never going to be as easy as a shooter to learn.
It's closer to something like dota which has a basic tutorial but the "this is how you move your character" stuff in sf5 is about as useful as dota's tutorial.
And csgo has absolutely nothing to teach players about the mechanics of the game but somehow is one of the most popular games in the world.
Besides, the stuff they put in the game at launch for "teaching" could be made irrelevant in 6 months.
The information is out there, moreso than ever before. Go seek it out and don't be so afraid to experiment yourself with things. Not all games need to be tightly constrained to a design set out by the developer.
Stallion Dan
Member
What fighting game does that?
It tells you their moves, how you want to play is down to the player.
Is it? If I earn a character on CFN am I going to be unlocking it on PSN/Steam as well? That's not how it seems to work.
I think it says a lot that Playstation All Stars does this.
You can, it's just buried in training mode.
I cant use my hot chun costume on ps4. I have it on steam. Theres no reason to assume the characters will be different.
You cant buy the dlc and then use it wherever.
7DollarHagane
Banned
It seems like some people want to know exactly what to do to win.
Who can tell you that? You make a hundred decisions per round in a fighting game. Block or poke, throw or neutral jump, dash or jump, reversal or turtle.
Experience and best guess is all you have, really.
Say you get destroyed by a Karin player and you don't understand why she kept hitting you with that weird move that she spins her arms in the air and jumps at you.
Training mode, record the dummy, keep getting hit with it and try things until you stop it or punish it.
The game doesn't need to outline these situations to you because the tools are there to learn for yourself. If you don't want that type of game play a simpler game.
He means you'll unlock it for the platform's account. But as far as unlocking it between platforms: No. CFN is different for both platforms and accounts aren't cross-platform.
I understand that. But my understanding is that CFN purchases are completely separate from PSN/Steam purchases, hence why you can buy Zenny from PSN/Steam for CFN, because it translates one currency to another.
Injustice did it a nice way.
The first time you start the game it recognizes you haven't played the game and asks you if you want to learn about how is the game played. So you start a few tutorials which you can quit at any time.
Or the (now) classic way Smash Bros. does it with a quick movie explaining the basics.
But this one already does that.
The other woukd be limeVirtua Fighter which is abit more indepth. Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance mixed something like that with a story back then.
You cant have it both ways, at the start of your post you cant have tutorials or learning material but by the end of it all that information is out there, in fact theres more of it than ever before (your bizarre non sequitur about tutorials somehow being publisher constraint is probably best left unaddressed). You can have tutorials, good ones, as you said yourself there are plenty of fan made ones out there. There is zero reason the developer cant make something like this (it is in fact easier and quicker for them to do so) nor is there any reason they cant keep them updated. There is nothing so unique about fighting games or MOBA's that they cant have solid learning material available for them, the fact so few have first party sources for this is a reflection of the nature of developer priorities not the nature of the game. Games significantly more complex than Street Fighter V or DOTA 2 have vastly superior learning materials available for them.
Virtua Fighter should really be baseline, rather than a nice exception, it has a fairly thorough training mode. A more robust training mode modeled on that would be a good starting point (even a complete movelist would be a step up from whats currently in the game).
Yes, theres clearly no middle ground between a barebones training mode with a half complete move list and your fight by numbers scenario. There's more content in that excluded middle than there is in the game.
Zenny and FM are seperate things. I bet you 100 bucks
not really im broke
And of course its tied to your psn/steam. The ID only exists because of the crossplay, its only use is for crossplay
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
There's a tutorial when you start up the game for the first time. Something previous games never had.
All the characters control the same just the stats are different. Every other fighting game does this.
Capcom have said as much when they produced this guide explaining the difference between Fight Money and Zenny.
Premium Costumes = 400 Zenny ($4)
http://imgur.com/8VXBBwb.jpg
A Twisty Fluken
Member
I'm pretty sure I heard him PERFECTLY CLEARLY, everyone else needs to have their ears checked
Though I did spend like 2 years calling Guile "gwilly"
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
They teach the player just fine. If you want to win consistently just keep practicing.
Um...no, they don't all control the same. Not every character has a QCF fireball. Not every character has FDF uppercut.
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