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[sendit]

It appears that next gen console ray tracing is gimped. PC master race FTW.

 

[JimboJones]

Ray Tracing will not sell a game. It will be either used or not. Well, I don't think it matters. Games will get even more beautiful, hence less believable.

Obviously ray tracing alone won't but It and new and refined graphics techniques will help sell games because that is what is going to make them next gen looking.
This happens every generation.

 

[iJudged]

Are you serious? This is more important to you than graphics and framerate?

Of course lol. Now that fanboys realized Ps5 lacks they will say shit like this. It's pathetic.

 

[sendit]

Obviously ray tracing alone won't but It and new and refined graphics techniques will help sell games because that is what is going to make them next gen looking.
This happens every generation.

Agreed. Teraflops aside. I'm more interested in how developers will design levels and worlds with the SSD in the PS5. Graphics can always be dialed down.

However, game design can't. Unless you want to fundamentally change the game.

 

[Tripolygon]

Of course lol. Now that fanboys realized Ps5 lacks they will say shit like this. It's pathetic.

This gen 1.3TF is the baseline, next gen hopefully if Lockhart is not a thing, 10TF equivalent to ~2080 is the baseline. In what world is that lacking?

 

[iJudged]

This man is the console wars' William Wallace. Taking on greater powers with bravado.

He should buy zune or iPod or something

 

[iJudged]

This gen 1.3TF is the baseline, next gen hopefully if Lockhart is not a thing, 10TF equivalent to ~2080 is the baseline. In what world is that lacking?

lacking compared to the other console you warrior you, go on you audiophile.

 

[Tripolygon]

lacking compared to the other console you warrior you, go on you audiophile.

CPU - the XSX In 8core mode is 300MHz faster and 100MHz faster in 16 thread mode ~2.8 to 8%
GPU - there is a 1.9TF difference between the 2 consoles in terms of GPU power, ~17%.
RAM Bandwidth wise 10GB of XSX storage is 112GB/s more than PS5 while the entire 16GB PS5 RAM is 112GB/s more than 6GB of the XSX RAM. 22% both
Storage bandwidth - PS5 is 5.5 GB/s or 3.1GB/s more than XSX 2.4GB/s in raw bandwidth ~78%

Neither console is lacking in performance. XSX is beastly but PS5 is not lacking in performance. Its like 2080 Super to 2070 Super.

 

[Dory16]

It appears that next gen console ray tracing is gimped. PC master race FTW.

Speak for the ps5 bro.

 

[sendit]

Speak for the ps5 bro.

Even the Xbox Series X has gimped ray tracing. They both use CUs to ray trace. No next gen consoles have dedicated ray tracing cores bro.

 

[psorcerer]

Even the Xbox Series X has gimped ray tracing. They both use CUs to ray trace. No next gen consoles have dedicated ray tracing cores bro.

Stop the bullshit. Nvidia does exactly the same.

 

[Tripolygon]

Stop the bullshit. Nvidia does exactly the same.

This is exactly what i was talking to VFXVeteran about. Lmao

 

[sendit]

I can now sleep soundly knowing the next Nvidia GPU will curb stomp these consoles.

 

[VincentMatts]

Are you serious? This is more important to you than graphics and framerate?

lol where have all the "#team13.3" people gone since yesterday?

 

[M1chl]

lol where have all the "#team13.3" people gone since yesterday?

People are hiding from FLOP-10.2

 

[Shmunter]

Scratching my head on this one. Wouldn't RT scale with clock speed together with the CU's, aka operations per time, faster cache, etc?

Suffice it to say, the difference in hardware leaves some mystery on the table and DF will have a lot of material to keep them busy throughout the gen.

 

[NT80]

Well we know 1st and 3rd party developers have this generation already made customized patches to unlock games potential as was the case with the XOX so I don't see it being any different for next gen. CDPR already came out with supporting the transition from having a current generation game that can be carried over to next gen with out a hick up.

We have truly stepped into the PC verse where scalable graphics and performances are just part of the ecosystem. PS isn't going to abandon all 100Mil+ of its user base for next gen either so the scalabity between current gen and next gen will be with use for the first couple of years like Phil has already said.

But we might have to wait up to 2 years until we really see the results of this power in any exclusive. I don't think that's ever been the case in any previous gen. So far I haven't seen a strict mandate for that by Sony. Also it seems like there's going to be the much weaker Lockhart and not long after that 2 years of supporting Xbox one there might even be a PS5 pro.

 

[quest]

Scratching my head on this one. Wouldn't RT scale with clock speed together with the CU's, aka operations per time, faster cache, etc?

Suffice it to say, the difference in hardware leaves some mystery on the table and DF will have a lot of material to keep them busy throughout the gen.

Not from my layman understanding. It is better to work on more at once than less at higher speed. There is lots of latency involved so working on more at once is better.

Neither have RT core like the tensor cores. Outside the fixed function intersection units the rest is done by CUs. It is all designed to keep the foot print small as possible. Dual using TMU cache dual using CUs ect.

 

[Shmunter]

Not from my layman understanding. It is better to work on more at once than less at higher speed. There is lots of latency involved so working on more at once is better.

Neither have RT core like the tensor cores. Outside the fixed function intersection units the rest is done by CUs. It is all designed to keep the foot print small as possible. Dual using TMU cache dual using CUs ect.

You sound like you know more than me, so I'll roll with it

 

[psorcerer]

Wouldn't RT scale with clock speed together with the CU's, aka operations per time, faster cache, etc?

Yes. But the difference is so minuscule that it doesn't matter.
Calculating intersections is just a small part of the RT pipeline, it will be so slow in other parts, that microseconds saved here won't matter.
Anybody who thinks that current NV or AMD tech is capable of any "full RT" is delusional.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

RayTracing doesn't start until Sony say's it does.

Microsoft spearheaded the feature set for their API which is your entire experience with modern Ray Tracing.

It doesn't start until Sony says it does? Microsoft started it two years ago.

 

[psorcerer]

So that means, you also get more of that from XSX:


In comparison Turing die (2080Ti to be exact):

It's 380 vs 321 bln "bvh traversals" per second.
18% better for XSeX.
Thread can be closed.

 

[JustP_Gaming]

Are you serious? This is more important to you than graphics and framerate?

Dont pay him any mind lol .

 

[JustP_Gaming]

Xbox trolls: we have Minecraft with better everything on XBOX. So hardcore. Take that Playstation!

The rest of the world:.... ...... ..... ....... .......what's Minecraft again? ...... ..... ......What is a XBOX?...... ....... Never mind.

If you didnt learn with X1X, you'll mos def learn with XSX. You'll see.

 

[sendit]

If you didnt learn with X1X, you'll mos def learn with XSX. You'll see.

What did people learn about the X1X? *scratches head*

 

[Filippos]

Xbox trolls: we have Minecraft with better everything on XBOX. So hardcore. Take that Playstation!

The rest of the world:.... ...... ..... ....... .......what's Minecraft again? ...... ..... ......What is a XBOX?...... ....... Never mind.

i think Minecraft is THE best way to show the difference between ray tracing and NON-Ray tracing
Just to show the difference. Agree or disagree?

 

[siekro1983]

So that means, you also get more of that from XSX:


In comparison Turing die (2080Ti to be exact):

Yea i'm back on xbox, will get ps5 by the end of the generation.

 

[fallingdove]

We have in the last couple of years moved to a more premium standard. Also the loyalty many spoke about before taking their libraries to PS5 might have to rethink their stance as the back compatibility isn't as extensive as they believed. The only loyalty left for them is the loyalty to their wallet and even that could be tempted based on how MS positions themselves.

How extensive is the backward compatibility?

Are you talking about what will be available at launch?

 

[lukilladog]

i think Minecraft is THE best way to show the difference between ray tracing and NON-Ray tracing
Just to show the difference. Agree or disagree?

Of course, a game with post 1990 graphics would make it very difficult to notice the RT.

 

[MiloPing]

Are you serious? This is more important to you than graphics and framerate?

Graphic really does matter for gaming?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

well we know that since the registration of AMD's RT patent last fall. it's also bound to clock speeds. so the exactly the same margin as with Tflops.

If that's true I think we can extrapolate what PS5's RT performance might be at, then.

XSX's is "more than 380 billion intersections" or whatever, I'll just stick with 380. 380,000,000,000 / 52 CUs / 1.825 GHz = 4.004 billion intersections per CU

So now take: 36 CUs * 4.004 billion ISpCU (Intersections per CU) * 2.23 GHz = 321.441 billion intersections maximum.

BUT, that depends on if GPU is at max clock. If it's lower, then that amount drops. Even if it's just a 2% drop from max clock (as Cerny said), that's nearing closer to 314.8 billion intersections per second for RT performance on PS5. And with all due respect to 'em, I doubt GPU clock rate will drop by "just" 2%, otherwise I don't see the reason to stress variable clocks/boost clock etc. in the first place (why not just perma-lock the GPU to that reduced-by-2% amount/ 2.184 GHz and save a little on the thermal budget?).

And again, MS said "more than 380 billion", so it's probably under 390 billion. We should probably play it safe and say it's 385 billion.

 

[tryDEATH]

How extensive is the backward compatibility?

Are you talking about what will be available at launch?

No PS2/3 library thus far nor the whole PS4 library instead its a curated list by Sony. This is a rather restricted back compatibility feature.

 

[tryDEATH]

But we might have to wait up to 2 years until we really see the results of this power in any exclusive. I don't think that's ever been the case in any previous gen. So far I haven't seen a strict mandate for that by Sony. Also it seems like there's going to be the much weaker Lockhart and not long after that 2 years of supporting Xbox one there might even be a PS5 pro.

No we don't have to wait, because as I said we already got special ptaches for XOX for titles that released this generation and those weren't even 1st party developers. So we will see the full power of the XSX right away

 

[Maxwell House]

It's not going to be at the level of the Tempest Engine though.

Lol what are you basing this opinion on? AFAIK Microsoft hasn't really discussed their dedicated sound chip yet. it could be on the same level as PS5, or even better, who knows.

 

[GymWolf]

I personally prefer a faster SSD and superior audio, but the Xbox Series X needs to be commended for producing possibly the most powerful gaming console in history.

It's like prefering armpits and knees on a woman instead of ass and boobs.

I knew all this time that you were a strange fella

 

[DemonCleaner]

If that's true I think we can extrapolate what PS5's RT performance might be at, then.

XSX's is "more than 380 billion intersections" or whatever, I'll just stick with 380. 380,000,000,000 / 52 CUs / 1.825 GHz = 4.004 billion intersections per CU

So now take: 36 CUs * 4.004 billion ISpCU (Intersections per CU) * 2.23 GHz = 321.441 billion intersections maximum.

correct. you could have also just multiplied the intersections with the proportion between TFlops for the same result: 380B intersection * 10,28/12,16 = 321B intersections

And with all due respect to 'em, I doubt GPU clock rate will drop by "just" 2%, otherwise I don't see the reason to stress variable clocks/boost clock etc. in the first place (why not just perma-lock the GPU to that reduced-by-2% amount/ 2.184 GHz and save a little on the thermal budget?).

that's a reasonable assumption.

And again, MS said "more than 380 billion", so it's probably under 390 billion. We should probably play it safe and say it's 385 billion.

its probably more like 381,5. but either way i don't really see the relvance of that statement.

 

[Virex]

 

[psorcerer]

And again, MS said "more than 380 billion", so it's probably under 390 billion. We should probably play it safe and say it's 385 billion.

It's 379 max, RDNA2 Tex engines top speed (for 52CU@1.825GHz) is 379GTex/sec and RT is done using these blocks.
It's 321 vs 379. And "boost clocks" are everywhere on NV cards, was there any problem with performance/overheating??
If Cerny said 2% it will be 2%

 

[NT80]

No we don't have to wait, because as I said we already got special ptaches for XOX for titles that released this generation and those weren't even 1st party developers. So we will see the full power of the XSX right away

Have you been listening to what they've been saying about the revolutions the new consoles are going to bring and the implications for game design or how terrible the current gen consoles are even when they launched? You can't see the full power of the XSX while it's being tied to the shitty old Xbox one. You'll have to wait and there may well be a Lockhart and a PS5 pro.

 

[Sacred]

Well, both consoles will suck with raytracing. They're both using CU's for ray tracing, as far as I'm understanding this.
People are gonna be so dissapointed when they see that console ray tracing will be used for some small rooms and shiny puddles of water and metallic surfaces.

Have you seen the SX demos, this is offloading all RT calculations to the hardware, something you can't get on a PC, meaning that full RT will have no effect on performance or the graphics pool on the SX.

 

[darkinstinct]

Have you seen the SX demos, this is offloading all RT calculations to the hardware, something you can't get on a PC, meaning that full RT will have no effect on performance or the graphics pool on the SX.

No, only the intersections will be calculated by the RT hardware. DF said that the actual lighting information is still rendered on the standard GPU.

 

[fallingdove]

No PS2/3 library thus far nor the whole PS4 library instead its a curated list by Sony. This is a rather restricted back compatibility feature.

Thus far, as in — before the console has even launched? I don't think you have a clue as to what extent Sony will support backwards compatibility. Surely you couldn't have gleaned that from a 45 minute technical discussion.

I'll happily criticise Sony if their solution doesn't meet minimum expectations over the course of its life, but you and a handful of others are so focused on spreading FUD, I don't know if you realize what you are saying anymore.

 

[Neur4lN01s3]

I personally prefer a faster SSD and superior audio, but the Xbox Series X needs to be commended for producing possibly the most powerful gaming console in history.

so you prefer faster loading time with worse graphics and framerate, really?

 

[Krappadizzle]

Microsoft spearheaded the feature set for their API which is your entire experience with modern Ray Tracing.

It doesn't start until Sony says it does? Microsoft started it two years ago.

The Reference

 

[Stuart360]

I'm sure the revolutionary SSD will be able to do RT better, like it can cure cancer and Corona, bring world peace, and impeach Trump, etc, etc, etc.

 

[thelastword]

So MS is so superior in RT performance, none of their internal games have shown RT, and their best way of showing RT is through Minecraft...….Where even Polaris GPU's run that well...?

I care

In general, I think there's only so much disappointment one can take. Feel like half the people who were so hell bent on PS5 being the "end all" power console will be back once they get over everything & things simmer down.

Including thelastword

Disappointment only exists if you cant see the bigger picture or only living through a vacuum......10.3TF vs 12.1TF with the same architecture, ok, 10.3TF with lots of removed bottlenecks, lots of custom silicon, insanely fast parts and superior audio is going to be another story at realtime and when you are playing.....You can bank on that...

 

[sinnergy]

So MS is so superior in RT performance, none of their internal games have shown RT, and their best way of showing RT is through Minecraft...….Where even Polaris GPU's run that well...?


Disappointment only exists if you cant see the bigger picture or only living through a vacuum......10.3TF vs 12.1TF with the same architecture, ok, 10.3TF with lots of removed bottlenecks, lots of custom silicon, insanely fast parts and superior audio is going to be another story at realtime and when you are playing.....You can bank on that...

When you see this spin doctor spins , you know what's up!

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Disappointment only exists if you cant see the bigger picture or only living through a vacuum......10.3TF vs 12.1TF with the same architecture, ok, 10.3TF with lots of removed bottlenecks, lots of custom silicon, insanely fast parts and superior audio is going to be another story at realtime and when you are playing.....You can bank on that...

This.

 

[iJudged]

I can now sleep soundly knowing the next Nvidia GPU will curb stomp these consoles.

3080ti can't come fast enough

 

[iJudged]

lol where have all the "#team13.3" people gone since yesterday?

suicide watch...