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[thelastword]

PS5 runs at a much higher clockspeed, that wont matter for raytracing, they will have one pool of memory that's consistent and won't have to dibber dabber between pools, that won't matter for raytracing, PS5 will have an insanely faster SSD, that wont matter for raytracing, only number of CU's will matter? Ha ha....

And just like I was saying in the next gen thread before yesterday...…..RT sucks up Vram like a fiend especially at high rez with top textures, people thinking MS's 10GB of optimal Vram and slower SSD is going to make a dent on RT that PS5 can't are in for a rude awakening...….We will see who does RT better when the first party games show off RT....I will bet my money on SWWS.....

 

[iJudged]

This.

i am convinced you and salt factory lastword are the same peopel.

 

[iJudged]

PS5 runs at a much higher clockspeed, that wont matter for raytracing, they will have one pool of memory that's consistent and won't have to dibber dabber between pools, that won't matter for raytracing, PS5 will have an insanely faster SSD, that wont matter for raytracing, only number of CU's will matter? Ha ha....

And just like I was saying in the next gen thread before yesterday...…..RT sucks up Vram like a fiend especially at high rez with top textures, people thinking MS's 10GB of optimal Vram and slower SSD is going to make a dent on RT that PS5 can't are in for a rude awakening...….We will see who does RT better when the first party games show off RT....I will bet my money on SWWS.....

he has arrived.....popcorn.gif

 

[Croatoan]

"Insiders" are just neck beards larping from their parent's basements while cuddling their waifu pillows and jacking off to pictures of Mark Cerny in a bathtub.

The same Mark Cerny who is simply a terrible budget Carmack who put out a 9.x teraflop machine that can maybe, possibly, sorta, kinda do 10.2 Teraflops.

Jesus it feels so good to clown on some of you losers. Where is that one douchbag? Bit"something" with the GoD of War tag (Kratos)? My god you where so magnificently wrong it's hilarious. Nobody should listen to any of the bullshit you spew ever again.

Go back in my post history, look at what I typed out. I claimed the PS5 would have a GPU that was a little bit better than a 1500XT, hopefully close to a 2070 Super....and guess what. That is exactly what you got.

Eat it. Enjoy it. That delicious fucking crow.

 

[BootsLoader]

I personally prefer a faster SSD and superior audio, but the Xbox Series X needs to be commended for producing possibly the most powerful gaming console in history.

Wise words. Can't agree more.

 

[Akuji]

PS5 runs at a much higher clockspeed, that wont matter for raytracing, they will have one pool of memory that's consistent and won't have to dibber dabber between pools, that won't matter for raytracing, PS5 will have an insanely faster SSD, that wont matter for raytracing, only number of CU's will matter? Ha ha....

And just like I was saying in the next gen thread before yesterday...…..RT sucks up Vram like a fiend especially at high rez with top textures, people thinking MS's 10GB of optimal Vram and slower SSD is going to make a dent on RT that PS5 can't are in for a rude awakening...….We will see who does RT better when the first party games show off RT....I will bet my money on SWWS.....

how do u know that wont matter? on turing clocking ur gpu higher while having rtx enabled gives u more performance



Turing also has the rtx cores build into the SM ( 4 CU ) so i dont really see how we can KNOW for SURE that its either way. Right now everythings possible, from XSX has ~50% more RT performance to XSX has 17% more RT performance.
If the Audio chip on the PS5 is more capable ( i would think it is but well, we dont know ) maybe it helps with some of the audio rt peformance or maybe it increases the cost since u need more information to get to that higher level of realism.

All in all it seems like PS5 is a console, meaning that there is a real usage of the fact that every box is the same. Looks like there are more ASICs in the PS5 and so on.
While XSX is the more powerfull box but seems to be more like a PC. That would make porting games to Windows easier.

On Multiplat expect XSX to have better RTX for exclusive titles expect XSX to still be ahead, probably not as much tough...

 

[tryDEATH]

Thus far, as in — before the console has even launched? I don't think you have a clue as to what extent Sony will support backwards compatibility. Surely you couldn't have gleaned that from a 45 minute technical discussion.

I'll happily criticise Sony if their solution doesn't meet minimum expectations over the course of its life, but you and a handful of others are so focused on spreading FUD, I don't know if you realize what you are saying anymore.

My original comment was going based of what people expected and projected as a big PS5 selling point, which was full back compatibility to PS4 games and some even went as far as suggesting older generations.

We now know PS4 is going to have around 100 back comp games at launch and that certainly isn't what people imagined when they though of this as a big selling point.

Have you been listening to what they've been saying about the revolutions the new consoles are going to bring and the implications for game design or how terrible the current gen consoles are even when they launched? You can't see the full power of the XSX while it's being tied to the shitty old Xbox one. You'll have to wait and there may well be a Lockhart and a PS5 pro.

Yes because you can literally turn on and of features. The MInecraft RT demo is a clear example of that. That demo was made by one engineer in 40 days. They don't need to be hard baked into the game to function.

 

[psorcerer]

Turing also has the rtx cores build into the SM ( 4 CU ) so i dont really see how we can KNOW for SURE that its either way. Right now everythings possible, from XSX has ~50% more RT performance to XSX has 17% more RT performance.

We do.

 

[Akuji]

We do.

the text also says that the performance drops pretty heavy in actually real world usage. How to play around ur architecture to have as little as possible of those drops is what we dont know. There is no definitive answer right now. Its an educated guess. I dont even disagree that XSX has more performance on RTX then the PS5 but we cant currently give a 100% perfect statement.

 

[psorcerer]

How to play around ur architecture to have as little as possible of those drops is what we dont know.

We do. Use RT very sparingly. Only in places that will give a lot of impact.
Realtime RT was not tried befor not because people were stupid, or technology was not there.
It was because RT is an absolute performance hog, that will drain everything you give it.

 

[NT80]

Yes because you can literally turn on and of features. The MInecraft RT demo is a clear example of that. That demo was made by one engineer in 40 days. They don't need to be hard baked into the game to function.

That's not what I'm talking about and turning on and off just a graphical feature has nothing to do with it. Listen to both companies talks about the implications and new possibilities that the new consoles bring. It's been said that features had to be cut and designs had to be based around the limitations of the current gen consoles. Things like this will change in the next gen when a game is made for those consoles exclusively.

 

[Lort]

No traces of RAY



No optical out on XSX? Why? The hell

Even when on low latency my panasonic oled delays the audio through with no way of turning it off... I'm going to buy hdmi ... optical splitter

 

[tryDEATH]

That's not what I'm talking about and turning on and off just a graphical feature has nothing to do with it. Listen to both companies talks about the implications and new possibilities that the new consoles bring. It's been said that features had to be cut and designs had to be based around the limitations of the current gen consoles. Things like this will change in the next gen when a game is made for those consoles exclusively.

Both are strictly talking about new possibilities in their own ecosystems that are not possible now, not game development period. Your believing too much into the spin, they got to sell these next gen consoles so they are clearly taking liberties with the way their advertising. They are not going to be developing games some drastic unimaginable way that all of a suddenly allowed them to limit-break.

How many different ways can you create a open world that you can't brute force your way through or load a destructible FPS MP map, or create a fighting/sports game. 99% of scenarios will be the same we just will get more shinny tidbits now that we have more power. RT will probably be the biggest difference for next generation and that won't require a monumental advancement in game development like they claim.

 

[NT80]

Both are strictly talking about new possibilities in their own ecosystems that are not possible now, not game development period. Your believing too much into the spin, they got to sell these next gen consoles so they are clearly taking liberties with the way their advertising. They are not going to be developing games some drastic unimaginable way that all of a suddenly allowed them to limit-break.

How many different ways can you create a open world that you can't brute force your way through or load a destructible FPS MP map, or create a fighting/sports game. 99% of scenarios will be the same we just will get more shinny tidbits now that we have more power. RT will probably be the biggest difference for next generation and that won't require a monumental advancement in game development like they claim.

A lot of people in the know like developers are saying this not just them and that the original Xbox one is garbage especially for 2021/2022. Of course it's going to hamstring the possibilities if your tied to that for up to 2 years after release. There was a lot of talk about how bad the One was when it released in 2013!

 

[tryDEATH]

A lot of people in the know like developers are saying this not just them and that the original Xbox one is garbage especially for 2021/2022. Of course it's going to hamstring the possibilities if your tied to that for up to 2 years after release. There was a lot of talk about how bad the One was when it released in 2013!

Sony 1st party devs have been the loudest so clear bias.

As for the original Xbox One yeah the games ran like crap, but that didn't stop the One X from having phenomenal looking games and having PC features enable on it that weren't present on the Xbox One. So this notion that games will be tainted/held back due to having to develop for last gen is nothing more than a hoax and spin that people are trying to hide behind.

Just like they do for PC that is why graphic cards exist and release on a yearly basis as you design for the highest available setting and then tune down. Last gen was the first time were we had multiple different power SKU and we adjust just like they do for PC's and we didn't skip a beat.

 

[NT80]

Sony 1st party devs have been the loudest so clear bias.

As for the original Xbox One yeah the games ran like crap, but that didn't stop the One X from having phenomenal looking games and having PC features enable on it that weren't present on the Xbox One. So this notion that games will be tainted/held back due to having to develop for last gen is nothing more than a hoax and spin that people are trying to hide behind.

Just like they do for PC that is why graphic cards exist and release on a yearly basis as you design for the highest available setting and then tune down. Last gen was the first time were we had multiple different power SKU and we adjust just like they do for PC's and we didn't skip a beat.

Nope Digital Foundry among others. Just looks at the DF thread where there's a lot of talk about that. To say that the XSX can reach it's full potential while being tied to the Xone is sheer madness. No vision or imagination whatsoever and a complete disregard from what's come out of both Microsoft and Sony about what these new systems bring. PCs are held back by consoles generations, no point using them as an example.

 

[siekro1983]

So MS is so superior in RT performance, none of their internal games have shown RT, and their best way of showing RT is through Minecraft...….Where even Polaris GPU's run that well...?


Disappointment only exists if you cant see the bigger picture or only living through a vacuum......10.3TF vs 12.1TF with the same architecture, ok, 10.3TF with lots of removed bottlenecks, lots of custom silicon, insanely fast parts and superior audio is going to be another story at realtime and when you are playing.....You can bank on that...

Not surprised by your response. come back to reality.

 

[tryDEATH]

Nope Digital Foundry among others. Just looks at the DF thread where there's a lot of talk about that. To say that the XSX can reach it's full potential while being tied to the Xone is sheer madness. No vision or imagination whatsoever and a complete disregard from what's come out of both Microsoft and Sony about what these new systems bring. PCs are held back by consoles generations, no point using them as an example.

Everyone is quoting the dev from Ready at Dawn which is a 1st party Sony studio.

XSX will reach it potential upon launch and those claiming it won't will be exposed again just like the so called many "insiders" that keep on hyping PS5 and ended up with egg on their face.

They are simply unwilling to accept that MS has figured out a way to maximize performances and quality on the XSX with out any development draw backs due to back compatibility. That's just because they haven't seen it before, but just like in the past couple of years MS keeps on pulling out Aces each time someone questions them they end up exceeding their expectations and this won't be any different.

So you keep on believing this spin as much as you want, because when Halo comes out it will hit you up and see what you think then just don't revert to the excuse "this is what they said".

 

[NT80]

Everyone is quoting the dev from Ready at Dawn which is a 1st party Sony studio.

XSX will reach it potential upon launch and those claiming it won't will be exposed again just like the so called many "insiders" that keep on hyping PS5 and ended up with egg on their face.

They are simply unwilling to accept that MS has figured out a way to maximize performances and quality on the XSX with out any development draw backs due to back compatibility. That's just because they haven't seen it before, but just like in the past couple of years MS keeps on pulling out Aces each time someone questions them they end up exceeding their expectations and this won't be any different.

So you keep on believing this spin as much as you want, because when Halo comes out it will hit you up and see what you think then just don't revert to the excuse "this is what they said".

Your ignoring Microsoft's own presentation and other's but leave the fanboy nonsense out of this. I hate the way this childish fanboy nonsense always muddies the water's on any discussion on one companies approach vs another's.

 

[tryDEATH]

Your ignoring Microsoft's own presentation and other's but leave the fanboy nonsense out of this. I hate the way this childish fanboy nonsense always muddies the water's on any discussion on one companies approach vs another's.

Yes I read Xbox's own presentation and wrote that they too are over-exaggerating in my prior posts. They are trying to sell their system so their over hyping. I am calling bullsh*t on both of their claims, while your eating up their talking points, how it will revolutionize game design/development. We aren't even maximizing current gen NVME drivers, but all of a sudden we need new tech that isn't even released to unleash next generation. Nothing more than PR talk from both.

Only revolutionary thing about next gen is going to be Ray Tracing.

 

[Shmunter]

Yes I read Xbox's own presentation and wrote that they too are over-exaggerating in my prior posts. They are trying to sell their system so their over hyping. I am calling bullsh*t on both of their claims, while your eating up their talking points, how it will revolutionize game design/development. We aren't even maximizing current gen NVME drivers, but all of a sudden we need new tech that isn't even released to unleash next generation. Nothing more than PR talk from both.

Only revolutionary thing about next gen is going to be Ray Tracing.

Time moves on. If we acknowledge ssd is part of next gen memory subsystem, then we can extrapolate that it will be used over time and become more and more depended upon especially when pc's eventually get their next gen drives also.

I don't believe this is speculation, it's inevitable.

Sony has backed this to a degree that is a gen ahead of MS. Does this mean Sony has planned for future proofing while MS gets stuck in the past? time will tell. And I'm sure we're all eager to observe and discuss things unfolding right here, hopefully objectively.

 

[CobraAB]

Crazy. That's a huge advantage.

Just keeps getting worse & worse for the other team.

Proof will be in the pudding.

And more times than not, Sony's pudding is better tasting.

 

[NT80]

Yes I read Xbox's own presentation and wrote that they too are over-exaggerating in my prior posts. They are trying to sell their system so their over hyping. I am calling bullsh*t on both of their claims, while your eating up their talking points, how it will revolutionize game design/development. We aren't even maximizing current gen NVME drivers, but all of a sudden we need new tech that isn't even released to unleash next generation. Nothing more than PR talk from both.

Only revolutionary thing about next gen is going to be Ray Tracing.

Nothing more than PR talk is just an assumption. I didn't get this same hype when the current gen came out as they really were underwhelming. Where has a game on previous gens that released on a new console and it's predecessor ever shown the full power of the newer console? This time where going from something that wasn't even good for it's time to something that has parts in it that aren't even available yet.

 

[tryDEATH]

Nothing more than PR talk is just an assumption. I didn't get this same hype when the current gen came out as they really were underwhelming. Where has a game on previous gens that released on a new console and it's predecessor ever shown the full power of the newer console? This time where going from something that wasn't even good for it's time to something that has parts in it that aren't even available yet.

Current gen was a low to mid tier PC at launch, which isn't the case for next gen. A full power showcase also wasn't possible before because of architecture and their hesitance to leave anyone behind something we have already done this generation with mid gen refreshes, which showed how games are capable of being scaled. Just compare the XOX vs Xbox One they are night and day differences, just like there will be once the XSX comes out.

 

[NT80]

Current gen was a low to mid tier PC at launch, which isn't the case for next gen. A full power showcase also wasn't possible before because of architecture and their hesitance to leave anyone behind something we have already done this generation with mid gen refreshes, which showed how games are capable of being scaled. Just compare the XOX vs Xbox One they are night and day differences, just like there will be once the XSX comes out.

Mid gen refresh consoles that have some the same critical limitations as the base consoles and are nothing like the leap true next gen is. They didn't show night and day differences, nothing like the kind you see with a new gen as with all previous new gens when there actually being pushed.

 

[tryDEATH]

Mid gen refresh consoles that have some the same critical limitations as the base consoles and are nothing like the leap true next gen is. They didn't show night and day differences, nothing like the kind you see with a new gen as with all previous new gens when there actually being pushed.

Are you really telling me games that ran at 1080P on base Xbox, but could then run 4K with HDR plus additional bells and whistles on One X isn't a night and day difference nor that it was a true leap in graphical fidelity? Because your blowing my mind if you truly believe that.

That sort of jump within a generation is insane and clearly showed the that there where levels that MS could unlock if the power was available, which is the case for next generation.

 

[NT80]

Are you really telling me games that ran at 1080P on base Xbox, but could then run 4K with HDR plus additional bells and whistles on One X isn't a night and day difference nor that it was a true leap in graphical fidelity? Because your blowing my mind if you truly believe that.

That sort of jump within a generation is insane and clearly showed the that there where levels that MS could unlock if the power was available, which is the case for next generation.

Of course not. I'm talking about the gap between one console generation's games and the next not a mid gen refresh which is still tied to the old console for every game and in this case has the same terrible cpu. Don't you understand what the difference is? It's the sort of difference between the likes of Horizon, Uncharted 4, Battlefront etc and what you had on the 360/PS3. Look at the difference between Red Dead 1 and 2. That's despite the current gen not being such a good upgrade from the last. Compare PS2 games with PS3 where there was a better upgrade.

 

[tryDEATH]

Of course not. I'm talking about the gap between one console generation's games and the next not a mid gen refresh which is still tied to the old console for every game and in this case has the same terrible cpu. Don't you understand what the difference is? It's the sort of difference between the likes of Horizon, Uncharted 4, Battlefront etc and what you had on the 360/PS3. Look at the difference between Red Dead 1 and 2. That's despite the current gen not being such a good upgrade from the last. Compare PS2 games with PS3 where there was a better upgrade.

But, I am trying to explain to you that it won't be an issue as we have proof that near generational leaps are possible with in a generation with out a hick up on game development that provides varying performances levels from low to high settings. The next generation will be a smooth transition where games will be optimized to the fullest extended not matter next gen or current gen. Development for consoles basically has been unified with PC development with the release of DX12 Ultimate that is the bridge between PC's and XSX and its ecosystem creating a seamless transition.

Red Dead example is a whole different issue which has more to do with software/engine innovation than just a generational advancement add to that, that there is a 8 year gap, as well as the 1st Red Dead being made in a era where Moore's law was still in full swing and advancement increased rapidly and exponentially to a point now where some claim the law is dead or on a significant slow down so advancement is much slower.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Nope Digital Foundry among others. Just looks at the DF thread where there's a lot of talk about that. To say that the XSX can reach it's full potential while being tied to the Xone is sheer madness. No vision or imagination whatsoever and a complete disregard from what's come out of both Microsoft and Sony about what these new systems bring. PCs are held back by consoles generations, no point using them as an example.

How is it tied down by XBO? You realize that crossgen can mean different things, correct? On PS4 and XBO, it meant farming the PS3/360 ports to contract studios, while the "A-team" studios worked on the then-current gen versions. As well, crossgen did not always mean feature parity between the then-next gen and past-gen systems.

Game engines have high granularity in scalable parts, much more than even towards start of current gen. Cross-gen ports will be prevalent on both XSX and PS5 for the first year (Fall 2020 - Fall 2021), which is the period Booty's E3 2019 comment covers (including Fall 2019, obviously).

So in actuality that is no longer a timeframe for a crossgen mandate than has traditionally been softly implemented by 3rd-party and 1st-party developers from at least the past 2 console generations. And it's worth noting that the Switch's biggest game in its first year, BOTW, was a cross-gen game. Same with the Wii's biggest Year 1 game (in core/hardcore gaming circles), TP, which was a port of a Gamecube title.

At least in the case of games like Halo:Infinite it would appear MS are taking a top-down approach; these are games being developed with the next-gen platform in mind at the heart, and ported downwards to the previous-gen platform. Their 1st-party studios in particular (who are the ones with the mandate effect) benefit massively from this approach versus 3rd-parties, who would focus on porting upward instead, since they would lack the dev tools, support, and financial backing of a platform holder.

 

[Goliathy]

Interesting.

 

[Neo_game]

I do not think RT is going to that good on consoles. Since Xbox has some 15 or 17% advantage it is not enough to make any difference. IMO the only difference we are going to see is say Xbox at 4K where as PS5 doing the same stuff at slightly lower resolution 1800P or 1700P whichever scales well. They might also do Checkerboard 4K if that looks better.

 

[Shmunter]

Interesting.

CU count affecting RT performance? Need to know more about this. If there is a direct correlation, Sony should be criticised for coming up short.

 

[-kb-]

CU count affecting RT performance? Need to know more about this. If there is a direct correlation, Sony should be criticised for coming up short.

Of course it runs slower, the same as the TFLOPs that guy is not saying RT performance is linear to CU only just that the PS5 is slower.

 

[Shmunter]

Of course it runs slower, the same as the TFLOPs that guy is not saying RT performance is linear to CU only just that the PS5 is slower.

If it's linear to TF aka, PS5 RT being -18% than that's fine. But Id like solid confirmation there's nothing more than meets the eye. When mentioning CU count in an RT conversation it raises eyebrows.

 

[hyperbertha]

Raytracing is a gimmick in its current state, maybe 3-5 years later... when new versions of these consoles come it might have a relevance. Lots of devs won't even use it.

If they offer an option between 4k with RTX off and 1080p with RTX on, they can make raytracing work. 1080p 30fps. Funny thing is most people here will still choose the 4k option because they have no idea how much of a difference full raytracing can make. Gotta justify your 4k tv purchase amirite? Graphically, we need to stop thinking in terms of resolution and start thinking in terms of things that actually make a difference like Raytracing and asset streaming. This is the real reason I'm excited for next gen, not FLOPS (which the PC have always had in truckloads and have next to nothing to show for it).

 

[LostDonkey]

CPU - the XSX In 8core mode is 300MHz faster and 100MHz faster in 16 thread mode ~2.8 to 8%
GPU - there is a 1.9TF difference between the 2 consoles in terms of GPU power, ~17%.
RAM Bandwidth wise 10GB of XSX storage is 112GB/s more than PS5 while the entire 16GB PS5 RAM is 112GB/s more than 6GB of the XSX RAM. 22% both
Storage bandwidth - PS5 is 5.5 GB/s or 3.1GB/s more than XSX 2.4GB/s in raw bandwidth ~78%

Neither console is lacking in performance. XSX is beastly but PS5 is not lacking in performance. Its like 2080 Super to 2070 Super.

I though RDNA2 was more efficient in regards to TF. So 17% is lowballing it no? it would be a bigger difference. someone will have to do the maths on what % more efficient the new chips are and calculate the difference.

 

[Shmunter]

If they offer an option between 4k with RTX off and 1080p with RTX on, they can make raytracing work. 1080p 30fps. Funny thing is most people here will still choose the 4k option because they have no idea how much of a difference full raytracing can make. Gotta justify your 4k tv purchase amirite? Graphically, we need to stop thinking in terms of resolution and start thinking in terms of things that actually make a difference like Raytracing and asset streaming. This is the real reason I'm excited for next gen, not FLOPS (which the PC have always had in truckloads and have next to nothing to show for it).

Yeah, 60fps!

 

[hyperbertha]

Yeah, 60fps!

I believe both consoles will offer 60 fps as standard this gen. Atleast as an option.

 

[Elenchus]

Well, it's also bound to clocks, so 44% CU advantage, 20% clock disadvantage, so I am not so sure how will that translate in real world.

Sony's clocks are variable so it's impossible to calculate what advantage they provide.

 

[M1chl]

Sony's clocks are variable so it's impossible to calculate what advantage they provide.

*up to then

 

[Neur4lN01s3]

I believe both consoles will offer 60 fps as standard this gen. Atleast as an option.

I bet on PS5 4K@30fps and 1440P@60 while XSX 4K@60
and in some first party games, PS5 4K@60 and XSX 4K@120fps

 

[hyperbertha]

Sony's clocks are variable so it's impossible to calculate what advantage they provide.

Didn't Cerny himself say the clocks aren't going to go down by anything more than 2 percent? Or did I hear wrong?

M1chl Sources on RTX also bound to clocks?

 

[M1chl]

Didn't Cerny himself say the clocks aren't going to go down by anything more than 2 percent? Or did I hear wrong?

M1chl Sources on RTX also bound to clocks?

Well if anything to goes by, it's this test, which shows, that it's bound to clocks:

 

[Elenchus]

Didn't Cerny himself say the clocks aren't going to go down by anything more than 2 percent? Or did I hear wrong?

M1chl Sources on RTX also bound to clocks?

Cerny said the clocks were controlled by the workload and since he cannot know the workload of every next gen game he cannot know how low those clocks will drop. Notice he didn't say that his design locked the clocks into a particular range and that they couldn't drop more than 10%. He was being vague and that doesn't inspire confidence.

 

[Tripolygon]

I though RDNA2 was more efficient in regards to TF. So 17% is lowballing it no? it would be a bigger difference. someone will have to do the maths on what % more efficient the new chips are and calculate the difference.

They're both RDNA 2 so whatever efficiency applies to both. This was purely math based on the numbers presented.

 

[semicool]

It appears from the presentation that the RT solutions from ps5 compared to XSX is different,. In summary, superior on the XSX. Cerny says it's built into the cu ie...would be limited by the CUs, not dedicated but accelerated by the enhanced CU hardware. Effectively, with RT, the ps5 CUs get used for that purpose.

Whereas in the DF article on Eurogamer Andrew Gossen said the XSX was separate..ie .dedicated, hence the 25 TF number he stated because it runs separate and in parallel. Like it's a separate piece of hardware. Sounds much stronger in RT than ps5 because it can run in parallel non the X. Like "could have been done in shaders"(but isn't like it's done in the ps5", "offloaded onto dedicated hardware" and "run in parallel with full performance"(separate, in addition to, unlike ps5),...which he States is why he is saying 25TFs if ran with Ray tracing on.

I quote, and note the differences vs ps5:

"Without hardware acceleration, this work could have been done in the shaders, but would have consumed over 13 TFLOPs alone," says Andrew Goossen. "For the Series X, this work is offloaded onto dedicated hardware and the shader can continue to run in parallel with full performance. In other words, Series X can effectively tap the equivalent of well over 25 TFLOPs of performance while ray tracing."

XSX Ray tracing sounds much stronger because of additional, separate, dedicated hardware that can run in parallel...ie...25TFs with Ray tracing. Which is like Nvidia s separate RT cores, MS appears to have a separate block of AMD RT cores. It even sounds like MS can use the CUs cores together with the separate AMD RT cores together for the "25TFs" of Ray tracing , which I wonder if the full path Minecraft Ray tracing is doing..ie .using more than just the dedicated block?

Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs

We visit Microsoft for a briefing on the impressive tech of its next flagship console

www.eurogamer.net

And based on the fact that Cerny previously routed rapid pack math..ie..fp16 for the PS4 pro(8TFs fp16 talk anyone?) but but makes no mention similar to Gossen in Cernys tech , dev friendly deep dive in regards to RT(like Gossens 25 TFs) like he does comparing PS4 CUs to Ps5 CUs equivalency...and does state it's built in...makes me think they are different in this way....ps5 built in to CUs vs XSX additional dedicated hardware.

Sony isn't touting RT to the same degree and performance level that MS is.

 

[-kb-]

It appears from the presentation that the RT solutions from ps5 compared to XSX is different,. In summary, superior on the XSX. Cerny says it's built into the cu ie...would be limited by the CUs, not dedicated but accelerated by the enhanced CU hardware. Effectively, with RT, the ps5 CUs get used for that purpose.

Whereas in the DF article on Eurogamer Andrew Gossen said the XSX was separate..ie .dedicated, hence the 25 TF number he stated because it runs separate and in parallel. Like it's a separate piece of hardware. Sounds much stronger in RT than ps5 because it can run in parallel non the X. Like "could have been done in shaders"(but isn't like it's done in the ps5", "offloaded onto dedicated hardware" and "run in parallel with full performance"(separate, in addition to, unlike ps5),...which he States is why he is saying 25TFs if ran with Ray tracing on.

I quote, and note the differences vs ps5:

"Without hardware acceleration, this work could have been done in the shaders, but would have consumed over 13 TFLOPs alone," says Andrew Goossen. "For the Series X, this work is offloaded onto dedicated hardware and the shader can continue to run in parallel with full performance. In other words, Series X can effectively tap the equivalent of well over 25 TFLOPs of performance while ray tracing."

XSX Ray tracing sounds much stronger because of additional, separate, dedicated hardware that can run in parallel...ie...25TFs with Ray tracing. Which is like Nvidia s separate RT cores, MS appears to have a separate block of AMD RT cores. It even sounds like MS can use the CUs cores together with the separate AMD RT cores together for the "25TFs" of Ray tracing , which I wonder if the full path Minecraft Ray tracing is doing..ie .using more than just the dedicated block?

Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs

We visit Microsoft for a briefing on the impressive tech of its next flagship console

www.eurogamer.net

And based on the fact that Cerny previously routed rapid pack math..ie..fp16 for the PS4 pro(8TFs fp16 talk anyone?) but but makes no mention similar to Gossen in Cernys tech , dev friendly deep dive in regards to RT(like Gossens 25 TFs) like he does comparing PS4 CUs to Ps5 CUs equivalency...and does state it's built in...makes me think they are different in this way....ps5 built in to CUs vs XSX additional dedicated hardware.

Sony isn't touting RT to the same degree and performance level that MS is.

They both use bog standard RDNA2 which is a modification to the TMU that runs at performance linear to the CU count and clock of the GPU core. The XSX is about 18% more powerful RT wise.

 

[NT80]

How is it tied down by XBO? You realize that crossgen can mean different things, correct? On PS4 and XBO, it meant farming the PS3/360 ports to contract studios, while the "A-team" studios worked on the then-current gen versions. As well, crossgen did not always mean feature parity between the then-next gen and past-gen systems.

Game engines have high granularity in scalable parts, much more than even towards start of current gen. Cross-gen ports will be prevalent on both XSX and PS5 for the first year (Fall 2020 - Fall 2021), which is the period Booty's E3 2019 comment covers (including Fall 2019, obviously).

So in actuality that is no longer a timeframe for a crossgen mandate than has traditionally been softly implemented by 3rd-party and 1st-party developers from at least the past 2 console generations. And it's worth noting that the Switch's biggest game in its first year, BOTW, was a cross-gen game. Same with the Wii's biggest Year 1 game (in core/hardcore gaming circles), TP, which was a port of a Gamecube title.

At least in the case of games like Halo:Infinite it would appear MS are taking a top-down approach; these are games being developed with the next-gen platform in mind at the heart, and ported downwards to the previous-gen platform. Their 1st-party studios in particular (who are the ones with the mandate effect) benefit massively from this approach versus 3rd-parties, who would focus on porting upward instead, since they would lack the dev tools, support, and financial backing of a platform holder.

What I'm saying is that no way will the XSX ever have anything like it's full potential reached in a game while still having to release that same game on Xbox one. To think that is to ignore everything that's been coming out of Microsoft, Sony, developers and the tech heads about how significant the changes these new consoles will bring to game development.

 

[Goliathy]

What I'm saying is that no way will the XSX ever have anything like it's full potential reached in a game while still having to release that same game on Xbox one. To think that is to ignore everything that's been coming out of Microsoft, Sony, developers and the tech heads about how significant the changes these new consoles will bring to game development.

? Only first party games and only first year games come out for Xbox one too.
3rd party release series x only games. No problem.
First party will do it for the first year.
Relax.

 

[martino]

PS5 runs at a much higher clockspeed, that wont matter for raytracing, they will have one pool of memory that's consistent and won't have to dibber dabber between pools, that won't matter for raytracing, PS5 will have an insanely faster SSD, that wont matter for raytracing, only number of CU's will matter? Ha ha....

And just like I was saying in the next gen thread before yesterday...…..RT sucks up Vram like a fiend especially at high rez with top textures, people thinking MS's 10GB of optimal Vram and slower SSD is going to make a dent on RT that PS5 can't are in for a rude awakening...….We will see who does RT better when the first party games show off RT....I will bet my money on SWWS.....

never read that before but i'm curious and i want to learn something how will ssd matter for RT ?