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[Boss Doggie]

I'm still confused by this even though I got the facts. Let's see if I get this right.

Ken Penders is the head writer/designer (?) for the Sonic Archie comics series that mostly stemmed from SatAM right? Apparently he "copyrighted" the various characters introduced there and because Archie and Sega didn't contract him, they were unable to sue him. So what happened was after the Megaman crossover, they made a huge retcon/new world reset thing which is now what's happening.

So my question is, how come they didn't contractualize him or something? Also wouldn't technically working under a copyrighted franchise imply that all works created within that is owned by the copyright holder regardless if they are original ideas of the staff?

 

[Some Nobody]

Does this mean all the much cooler Sonic Saturday AM characters aren't in the Archie Sonic comics anymore?

 

[Village]

Does this mean all the much cooler Sonic Saturday AM characters aren't in the Archie Sonic comics anymore?

Not really unless you care about echidina's, scourge the hedgehog various other characters that aren't relevant and Sally's family.

 

[ChaosXVI]

Ken Penders is the former head writer, who got fired in 2006 and replaced with Ian Flynn. Penders created a lot of the world and characters in the comics, most notably mostly all of Knuckles' backstory before Sonic Adventure established more of the Sonic world.

Ken claims all characters he created belonged to him and therefore he was free to use them for his own purposes. SEGA and Archie disagreed, and didn't want to pay him to use characters that he created for a licensed product (Sonic). He ended up winning the case however, in that Archie apparently never made him sign his rights away when he was still writing, or lost the paperwork (which is more likely). Because of this, all characters not created by the current writer, along with any settings not affiliated with the games, the SatAM cartoon were expunged, because they don't want to pay Penders any money to use the characters, or have to collaborate with him on how they are portrayed. AND on top of all this, they don't want to risk SEGA taking the license away because Penders is still suing SEGA over copyright infringement because he claims the Echidna characters in Sonic Chronicles for DS were too similar to his Echidnas.

Yeah. That's the size of it.

 

[Weiss]

The Sonic comic is still going?

 

[Anoregon]

But what about the much-needed shrek/sonic crossover?

I hope it isn't ogre.

 

[Village]

The Sonic comic is still going?

Yes

They have 3 books, and crossoevers with megaman, who's books from what i understand don't do as well.

 

[SMgamer83]

I'm embarrased to admit, but I have almost every comic from #40 (I was like 10 years old) to #240. I loved the comic more than the games. But all this retcon stuff and getting rid of all of Ken's creations ruined the comic for me. (Well that and being 30 years old.)

I've been meaning to actually sell all the old comics at some point...Right now they are just taking up space.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Oh and there's now a Megaman / Megaman X / Sonic / Sonic Boom crossover

what

Ken Penders is the former head writer, who got fired in 2006 and replaced with Ian Flynn. Penders created a lot of the world and characters in the comics, most notably mostly all of Knuckles' backstory before Sonic Adventure established more of the Sonic world.

Ken claims all characters he created belonged to him and therefore he was free to use them for his own purposes. SEGA and Archie disagreed, and didn't want to pay him to use characters that he created for a licensed product (Sonic). He ended up winning the case however, in that Archie apparently never made him sign his rights away when he was still writing, or lost the paperwork (which is more likely). Because of this, all characters not created by the current writer, along with any settings not affiliated with the games, the SatAM cartoon were expunged, because they don't want to pay Penders any money to use the characters, or have to collaborate with him on how they are portrayed. AND on top of all this, they don't want to risk SEGA taking the license away because Penders is still suing SEGA over copyright infringement because he claims the Echidna characters in Sonic Chronicles for DS were too similar to his Echidnas.

Yeah. That's the size of it.

Wait, wouldn't the SatAM stuff still be owned by SEGA?

 

[Weiss]

Yes

They have 3 books, and crossoevers with megaman, who's books from what i understand don't do as well.

Well that blows. I love the Archie Mega Man comic.

I was hoping we'd see X and Legends spin offs.

 

[Village]

Well that blows. I love the Archie Mega Man comic.

I was hoping we'd see X and Legends spin offs.

If its true I understand, like sonic is still in video games, and and has a cartoon. Kids know who him and his friends are.

Megaman isn't in either of those things, well besides smash.

 

[MrBadger]

I hear that under Flynn, the comic is in much better shape than it was in when Penders was running things. I keep meaning to give them a go because I've seen all the little in-jokes he puts in and I've heard he does justice to some of the more dislikable Sonic characters like Silver.

 

[KarasuEXE]

I'd really like to get on those Sonic Comics, but there are way too much books. Maybe someday.

 

[Boss Doggie]

here we go

 

[Loona]

I only bought and read the Sonic/Megaman crossover, but looks like the current writer is doing an interesting job - nowadays he's covering events from several different games at once and including a few interesting cameos along the way.

Namely, a recent issue, while covering Sonic the Fighters, had a cameo of Segata Sanshiro, while including the cat version of Honey from Fighting Vipers (which was in StF recent re-release), while having a warthog version of Jane from FV in there too.

I'm curious about the upcoming crossover, although I'll probably go digital for that series.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I only bought and read the Sonic/Megaman crossover, but looks like the current writer is doing an interesting job - nowadays he's covering events from several different games at once and including a few interesting cameos along the way.

Namely, a recent issue, while covering Sonic the Fighters, had a cameo of Segata Sanshiro, while including the cat version of Honey from Fighting Vipers (which was in StF recent re-release), while having a warthog version of Jane from FV in there too.

I'm curious about the upcoming crossover, although I'll probably go digital for that series.

From what I heard in the pre-retcon the Sonic the Fighters cast were a bunch of convicts lol

 

[Sciz]

So my question is, how come they didn't contractualize him or something? Also wouldn't technically working under a copyrighted franchise imply that all works created within that is owned by the copyright holder regardless if they are original ideas of the staff?

Without a work for hire contract, the copyright defaults to the creator. He wasn't under a contract because Archie editorial at the time wasn't too bright.

Wait, wouldn't the SatAM stuff still be owned by SEGA?

It is.

I hear that under Flynn, the comic is in much better shape than it was in when Penders was running things. I keep meaning to give them a go because I've seen all the little in-jokes he puts in and I've heard he does justice to some of the more dislikable Sonic characters like Silver.

You have no idea. Every character is good, and he's currently melding three different games into the same storyline while dropping references to everything from Sonic 1 up to the Riders games and incorporating AoStH characters. In less talented hands it would be a total mess, but it feels completely natural and flows wonderfully instead.

 

[Boss Doggie]

So why was there a need to remove SatAM references if SEGA still has hold on it?

 

[Gameboy415]

I was a huge fan of the Sonic comics back in the day and I still have issues #1/4 (the magazine promotional pack-in) through #152 and all of the mini-series that released in that time period (including the full run of Knuckles' series) on my bookshelf.

I haven't actively collected/read the books in years but it's pretty disheartening to hear about the Ken Penders stuff - I actually got to meet him at Chicago Comic-Con back in 1998 and he seemed like a really cool guy.
I still have a copy of Sonic The Hedgehog #50: Director's Cut that he signed for me too!

 

[tim_pkmn89]

So why was there a need to remove SatAM references if SEGA still has hold on it?

They didn't. Everything except family references from SatAM is still in it. (Everybody refers to Uncle Chuck as "Uncle" now, and Snively isn't Robotnik's nephew anymore.)

There was talk that they'd want to stick with pure game canon to appease Sega (since Sega got mad they fucked up the contract thing), but they didn't.

 

[Lagamorph]

Pfft. The fleetway comics were way better anyway.

All hail the Mighty Kitching!

 

[Kor of Memory]

I'm embarrased to admit, but I have almost every comic from #40 (I was like 10 years old) to #240. I loved the comic more than the games. But all this retcon stuff and getting rid of all of Ken's creations ruined the comic for me. (Well that and being 30 years old.)

I've been meaning to actually sell all the old comics at some point...Right now they are just taking up space.

Ha! I'm in almost the same boat. I have comic #0, 1, 2, 3 and then #63 thru #180 plus a crap ton of the specials, mini-series, and 1 offs.

They're just taking up space in the basement.

 

[GameBuddy]

I'd really like to get on those Sonic Comics, but there are way too much books. Maybe someday.

You can just start with issue 252, the universe was basically rebooted and they don't reference the old continuity. The only required knowledge would be of the games themselves and a little bit of the old cartoon.

 

[Boss Doggie]

They didn't. Everything except family references from SatAM is still in it. (Everybody refers to Uncle Chuck as "Uncle" now, and Snively isn't Robotnik's nephew anymore.)

There was talk that they'd want to stick with pure game canon to appease Sega (since Sega got mad they fucked up the contract thing), but they didn't.

Ah interesting. But I take it stuff like background/character past are different now?

 

[Lagamorph]

I think I read somewhere that one thing they're going to do in the reboot was pretty much put an end to the 'shipping wars' by saying there'll be no pairing off at all? At least for Sonic anyway.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Pfft. The fleetway comics were way better anyway.

All hail the Mighty Kitching!

This. Core Elson/Kitching strip was fantastic once they got serious with the origin story. Some of the other early sega strips decap/eternal champions/shinobi were great too.

I remember picking up an archie comic in forbidden planet in the nineties and being shocked by how much lower the quality was

 

[Lagamorph]

This. Core Elson/Kitching strip was fantastic once they got serious with the origin story. Some of the other early sega strips decap/eternal champions/shinobi were great too.

I remember picking up an archie comic in forbidden planet in the nineties and being shocked by how much lower the quality was

I bloody adored Decap Attack. It was Nigel Kitching's own pet project and you could really tell he loved writing it.

 

[theSlacker]

So all the Knuckles side characters and old storyline is out? I haven't followed the comics in years but until they changed stuff I loved his comic and world around him. Julie-Su is just gone?

 

[bengraven]

Sounds like he fell in love with his own characters and wants fan support to bring them to an original work without Archie or Sega's hand in it.

They're owned by Archie or Sega, if he worked for them, depending on the contract. If the contract stated he owned characters he created then it would be less cut and dry.

 

[NimbusD]

Does this mean all the much cooler Sonic Saturday AM characters aren't in the Archie Sonic comics anymore?

Whaaaat, no more Sally, Antione, etc? I stopped reading a bit after the 50th issue where

Spoiler

Robotnik died. (spoiler just in case?? hah)

But always checked in to see what was going on and never understood a god damn thing cuz the story was so crazy.

 

[theSlacker]

Whaaaat, no more Sally, Antione, etc? I stopped reading a bit after the 50th issue where

Spoiler

Robotnik died. (spoiler just in case?? hah)

But always checked in to see what was going on and never understood a god damn thing cuz the story was so crazy.

It sounds like all the SatAM characters are still there, but none of the ones that were not in that and didn't come from games.

 

[Sciz]

I think I read somewhere that one thing they're going to do in the reboot was pretty much put an end to the 'shipping wars' by saying there'll be no pairing off at all? At least for Sonic anyway.

Right.

This. Core Elson/Kitching strip was fantastic once they got serious with the origin story. Some of the other early sega strips decap/eternal champions/shinobi were great too.

I remember picking up an archie comic in forbidden planet in the nineties and being shocked by how much lower the quality was

StC was better on the whole at the time (although not without its own share of severe weirdness), but current Archie outstrips it significantly.

The Decap Attack stories were awesome, though.

Whaaaat, no more Sally, Antione, etc?

AoStH and SatAM characters are fine. Comic-exclusive characters got axed across the board.

Sounds like he fell in love with his own characters and wants fan support to bring them to an original work without Archie or Sega's hand in it.

They're owned by Archie or Sega, if he worked for them, depending on the contract. If the contract stated he owned characters he created then it would be less cut and dry.

He already won the court case to get control of them, and is actively producing a terrible looking graphic novel carrying on from where he left off.

 

[Shanlei91]

Whaaaat, no more Sally, Antione, etc? I stopped reading a bit after the 50th issue where

Spoiler

Robotnik died. (spoiler just in case?? hah)

But always checked in to see what was going on and never understood a god damn thing cuz the story was so crazy.

Haha I remember that. "END GAME" - but my supscription was for a year which meant I would get the issue right after it. I lost interest after they hyped up "it's the end!" and issue 51 was boring. My first experience being messed with by comic book writers and I never got into comics the same again.

 

[Glowsquid]

He already won the court case to get control of them, and is actively producing a terrible looking graphic novel carrying on from where he left off.

the cover, for those wondering:

 

[Hot Coldman]

Not a religious reader, but Archie's Sonic comic has been on fire for a few years now. Ian Flynn just gets it.

 

[Lagamorph]

That looks absolutely terrible.

I'm really not sure how these characters are going to work completely alone without the core cast there as well. They were, after all, built as side/supporting characters for characters like Sonic and Knuckles. Spin offs are one thing, but this will have to be a complete disconnect.

 

[Shadow Hog]

the cover, for those wondering:

Don't stop there, we actually have Page 1 now.

 

[KidGalactus]

Sounds like he fell in love with his own characters and wants fan support to bring them to an original work without Archie or Sega's hand in it.

They're owned by Archie or Sega, if he worked for them, depending on the contract. If the contract stated he owned characters he created then it would be less cut and dry.

If he created them prior to his work on Sonic/for Sega/Archie they belong to him.

Work for hire ownership would only include content created during the project which he was contracted to work on.

 

[Nanashrew]

the cover, for those wondering:

I think I'm going to throw up... That just looks so terrible.

 

[Boss Doggie]

oh god what

 

[Village]

Don't stop there, we actually have Page 1 now.

Oh shit this actually started, lets keep the crazy train rolling

 

[Sciz]

That looks absolutely terrible.

I'm really not sure how these characters are going to work completely alone without the core cast there as well. They were, after all, built as side/supporting characters for characters like Sonic and Knuckles. Spin offs are one thing, but this will have to be a complete disconnect.

There's already a Knuckles expy in it, and none of the nonsense he wrote ever had anything to do with Sonic in the first place.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

How far removed from Sonic the Hedgehog had the comics gotten that he can just pick up where he left off without the characters Sega still owns?

 

[Boogiepop]

Yeah, thank god for Ian Flynn, and I have no idea about him as a person outside of comics, but Penders seems pretty damn crazy and it's definitely a good thing they got him off the series. And not really much of value was lost with his characters going away (I find Scourge kind of fun for how dumb of a concept "Evil universe greaser Sonic who is green", but not a huge loss and worth getting rid of the insane Knuckles stuff).

Edit: Though I do wish Archie would get way better about sticking to a schedule for the trade releases for the series (and to a lesser degree Mega Man), as they've been pretty awful about multiple delays popping up out of nowhere with no notice whatsoever.

 

[Mesoian]

Don't stop there, we actually have Page 1 now.

Oh my god...this is like if...I was penning this.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Don't stop there, we actually have Page 1 now.

Everything's covered in an oily sheen. The future is here!

 

[Kyari]

Don't stop there, we actually have Page 1 now.

Why is Knuckles wearing a cowboy hat?

 

[Boss Doggie]

I never understood Knuckles's family. Are his relatives evil or something?

 

[Lagamorph]

So....is this going to be set in the same world or something? I mean...surely not, the actual overall world must still belong to SEGA/Archie.

I never understood Knuckles's family. Are his relatives evil or something?

I don't think they were evil. His mom was fine as far as I know, his dad was just a prick.

 

[Beth Cyra]

here we go

Zero, Axel, Sigma, and Vile. Every major X character except X.

X truly just gets fucked over when it comes to crossovers for fuck sake.