Support NeoGAF

[//DEVIL//]

I get that PC gamers play online for free ( I am one of those heavy PC Gamers as well as consoles ) . But the idea to charge someone who bought your 300$ / 500$ console another ~50$ a year for Xbox Gold when PC users can play those damn same games with probably better graphics depending on their setup for free is beyond stupid.

So. in theory, in order to play an exclusive MS game, we need the following

Console users:
- The console
- The game
- Xbox Live Gold

PC users:
- umm. any fucking PC from the last 4 years or so will play the game to a degree..

whats worse, many games the PC and Xbox can cross play too. so its not the user base on PC is low is a good excuse .

Am i missing something here ? just make Xbox live Free on consoles. at least its a good fight against other competitors .

 

[waylo]

MS knows that PC users won't pay an additional fee to play online while the console market has clearly shown that they're willing to.

Also, MS games come with the caveat that you need to use the hilariously awful Windows Store if you want to play on PC. In most cases, it's not even worth it.

 

[YoshiMax]

OK I’ll bite.

You don’t get cheating hacked to fuck losers on console. You’re paying for a quality online experience untainted by wallhacks and aimbots/bots in general. I’ll be interested to see how they stop PC losers running cheats in any crossplay experiences going forwards.

Interested to know why you’ve chosen MS as your target here and not PSN or the upcoming Switch paid service or just used a generic “online console VS PC” as the basis for your bizarre argument?

This is a really bad thread. It might have worked to a very (very) slight degree if you’d argued that MS exclusives should allow online for free (as those which are XPA will be free to play online on PC) but you haven’t.

 

[RoboFu]

xbox has all third party games that uses xbl for match making , cloud saves ect.

Windows doesn’t

Steam doesn’t use xbl and does have the same services for every game.

 

[//DEVIL//]

OK I’ll bite.

You don’t get cheating hacked to fuck losers on console. You’re paying for a quality online experience untainted by wallhacks and aimbots/bots in general. I’ll be interested to see how they stop PC losers running cheats in any crossplay experiences going forwards.

Interested to know why you’ve chosen MS as your target here and not PSN or the upcoming Switch paid service or just used a generic “online console VS PC” as the basis for your bizarre argument?

This is a really bad thread. It might have worked to a very (very) slight degree if you’d argued that MS exclusives should allow online for free (as those which are XPA will be free to play online on PC) but you haven’t.

This thread IS about MS exclusives to be free on consoles like they are on PC. MS is just loyally fucking up their fans with this crap :/

this has NOTHING to do with Sony and Nintendo because their exclusive games are not on PC. did you even read my post ?

MS knows that PC users won't pay an additional fee to play online while the console market has clearly shown that they're willing to.

Also, MS games come with the caveat that you need to use the hilariously awful Windows Store if you want to play on PC. In most cases, it's not even worth it.

Games like Gears of War 4 are cross play. so those people who are hacking on PC, will affect the Xbox owners as well.

xbox has all third party games that uses xbl for match making , cloud saves ect.

Windows doesn’t

Steam doesn’t use xbl and does have the same services for every game.

Third party games use their own servers most of the time. However, lets say your point is valid. these games are still free to play online on windows store. they are not on xbox console .

You do Need to connect to Xbox Live Servers to play online on PC.

 

[GoodCool]

They tried it with Games for Windows Live, it failed terribly.

The money does go back into network infrastructure to create a better service. XBL is better, network wise, than PSN (although PSN had gotten better since it started having people pay).

 

[DavidGzz]

You get Games with Gold and discounts on a lot of games. I find the $50 a year easy to swallow when my library of available games grows by 3-4 games a month. If you don't, don't get gold and stick to PC gaming.

 

[RoboFu]

This thread IS about MS exclusives to be free on consoles like they are on PC. MS is just loyally fucking up their fans with this crap :/

this has NOTHING to do with Sony and Nintendo because their exclusive games are not on PC. did you even read my post ?

Games like Gears of War 4 are cross play. so those people who are hacking on PC, will affect the Xbox owners as well.



Third party games use their own servers most of the time. However, lets say your point is valid. these games are still free to play online on windows store. they are not on xbox console .

You do Need to connect to Xbox Live Servers to play online on PC.

Windows store doesn’t have a fraction of the third party games that Xbox consoles do.

And yes every game on Xbox has the basic services.

Steam doesn’t even have 100% cloud saves.

 

[Sosokrates]

Because on PC there are other options......

 

[cooper59]

i wouldn't play with pc players. most are cheaters. if somas too cheap too pay 4 dollars a month they have a problem./how is that 1000 video card doing,lol

 

[//DEVIL//]

Windows store doesn’t have a fraction of the third party games that Xbox consoles do.

And yes every game on Xbox has the basic services.

Steam doesn’t even have 100% cloud saves.

Why Steam is on this subject ? this is pure Windows 10 users vs Console users for the Xbox games that are available on both windows 10 and Xbox console.

 

[Snoopycat]

If MS really wanted more customers all they'd need to do is drop the paywall. Doubt it'll ever happen though

 

[-MD-]

Console players have proven they'll gladly pay the extra fees while PC players have shown they will not.

 

[RoboFu]

Why Steam is on this subject ? this is pure Windows 10 users vs Console users for the Xbox games that are available on both windows 10 and Xbox console.

Because that’s usually the scape goat to third party games.

But again why would they charge form that only really has first party and a few random games that don’t have to use xbl ?

 

[breakfuss]

i wouldn't play with pc players. most are cheaters. if somas too cheap too pay 4 dollars a month they have a problem./how is that 1000 video card doing,lol

lmao this is so fucking juvenile but i Iaughed.

If MS really wanted more customers all they'd need to do is drop the paywall. Doubt it'll ever happen though

More customers doesn't necessarily equal more revenue.

 

[-MD-]

i wouldn't play with pc players. most are cheaters. if somas too cheap too pay 4 dollars a month they have a problem./how is that 1000 video card doing,lol

Lol, I thought Yoshi had the worst post in the thread but you took the crown.

 

[Rellik]

Console players have proven they'll gladly pay the extra fees while PC players have shown they will not.

Yep. -MD- pretty much nails it here with the answer to the question in the OP. If someone is willing to pay for something then I'd sure as hell charge them for it too.

It has nothing to do with "loser" PC players (I love logging on to NeoGAF to be called a loser for my platform of choice. Really brightens the day) or the 1994 mindset of PC games being full of cheaters online.

 

[Mathrin]

Is there really any need for profanity in subject titles? Or "so um..."?


On topic - They tried charging for GFW Live years ago, and it didn't work. Xbox live is the online infrastructure used for the console, it's proprietary and therefore MS, Sony or Nintendo are within their rights to charge for their respective continued developments, access, benefits and bonuses. People are within their rights to say "I don't want to pay for this" and not. It's a captive market, and a captive market will pay. Business 101.

PC games have never successfully charged for online, and unless something drastically changes, likely never will because of the history.

 

[breakfuss]

This is a really bad thread. It might have worked to a very (very) slight degree if you’d argued that MS exclusives should allow online for free (as those which are XPA will be free to play online on PC) but you haven’t.

I'm assuming that's precisely why they singled out MS. Although I'd agree with you it's a silly question to pose when we all know the answer.

 

[thelastword]

It's because XBOX fans oversold LIVE on the 360, like it was the second coming, even when PS3 online was free. There is no way MS goes back now, as it was their cash-bucket in the 360 generation, how? through countless died in the wool X-fans who swore on LIVE and it's value for a fee. Now with PS4, Sony is making more money through it's PSN than MS is making with LIVE, but they also have the hardware which are selling like hot cakes and they have the software sales in exclusives and multiplats too.......MS doesn't have that, but they still have some faithful members who swear by LIVE, the controller et.al...albeit, without much merit in this new console generation........So yes, with that in mind, MS is never going to make LIVE free, that will be asking them to lose a steady stream of revenue, when they're even behind the eightball in that aspect against the competiton...

Now, that has been laid out, you must understand.... PC is an open platform, paying a fee for online is not going to work. These guys get their games at launch sometimes 20-40% off, they wait a week and can get it for much less and get steals off CDkey websites. The PC audience is a different beast, they are not loyal to companies, they are loyal to where the best deals are and surely.... MS themselves know that no PC gamer is going to pay a fee to play an MS-Walled library of games online. That is not happening today and it never will......So they're not going to try...

 

[GametimeUK]

I have an Xbox One and a gaming PC with Gears of War 4. I don't have XBL Gold. I find it very strange indeed that I play coop with my Xbox my friend on the same game whilst he pays for the service to do so and yet I don't. It gets double weird at the thought of if I power up my Xbox I have to pay to coop with my friend. I can coop with him for free on the same game by just turning on the other device (my PC). Madness.

 

[Zog]

If MS really wanted more customers all they'd need to do is drop the paywall. Doubt it'll ever happen though

There will be parity at some point, either they get away with charging on PC (I doubt this will happen) or they drop the fee for consoles. Now that everyone else is charging for online, it would make them stand out.

 

[Rellik]

There will be parity at some point, either they get away with charging on PC (I doubt this will happen) or they drop the fee for consoles. Now that everyone else is charging for online, it would make them stand out.

How would they replace the revenue they are currently making from Xbox Live?

 

[luxsol]

Because they can and users have shown that they will pay up.
There's no other option.

That's it.

Same with PS4.

 

[Zog]

How would they replace the revenue they are currently making from Xbox Live?

More sales from people who will come because Xbox will be the only console NOT charging for online play.

 

[Fnord]

Because they can.

 

[1morerobot]

Echoing what someone else said, Games With Gold pretty much pays the XBL cost itself.

 

[lifa-cobex]

You have to keep in mind that when the 360 was released, PC gaming was at a low around this point for gaming.
PSN was free but the price for the console was high. I think users saw it as a counter balance to Sony's console price. Xbox live was better too (arguably).

As of today i think it's just the statues quo. People don't tend to question it as it's always been this way. It's just business as usual.
The PC market has come leaps and bounds since then. MS might do itself a favour by taking the hit and making it free. Or doing a better deal in terms to compete with Sony.

edit: Also competition is far higher on PC. If Steam started charging then a massive shift in the market would occur. People would user another platform app without any real complication. It would be suicide to do it on PC.
That's not an issue with consoles. They can get away with it as you've invested money for that consoles games.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

PC gamers fought back when they tried to fuck em. Console gamers went with it willingly. Twice. 3 times once Switch goes paid in September.

 

[Rellik]

More sales from people who will come because Xbox will be the only console NOT charging for online play.

I can see your point and maybe it would work, but I personally don't see them selling enough extra consoles with free online to cover the amount of cash they are currently earning from Xbox Live.

 

[Wilhams]

More sales from people who will come because Xbox will be the only console NOT charging for online play.

Hmmm nope. Pc is were you go for graphical fidelity psn is were you go for exclusives and xbox is trying to be the jack of all trades but its not really working out for them. P.S. I own a x and loving every minute of it.

 

[Zog]

Hmmm nope. Pc is were you go for graphical fidelity psn is were you go for exclusives and xbox is trying to be the jack of all trades but its not really working out for them. P.S. I own a x and loving every minute of it.

This has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Mathrin]

Hmmm nope. Pc is were you go for graphical fidelity psn is were you go for exclusives and xbox is trying to be the jack of all trades but its not really working out for them. P.S. I own a x and loving every minute of it.

Wtf does that have to do with anything?

 

[DonJimbo]

Because pc gamers think economicaly and they think that there is no need for special fees because they have the better infrastructure

 

[Wilhams]

This has nothing to do with what I said.

You stated that a free online will bring in more gamers. Is that the case with pc? For most its not. Why did ps3 users who were use to not paying online jumped to ps4? Could be the whole disaster of the one launch but a lot cry about games and exclusives. So how was my statement not relevant? Free online does not equate to more consoles sales especially when a majority of xbox revenue is the live service. And if its about the x statement its to provide context that im not biased.

 

[Zog]

Because pc gamers think economicaly and they think that there is no need for special fees because they have the better infrastructure

BS, if Steam started charging PC gamers would mostly give in.

 

[Zog]

You stated that a free online will bring in more gamers. Is that the case with pc? For most its not. Why did ps3 users who were use to not paying online jumped to ps4? Could be the whole disaster of the one launch but a lot cry about games and exclusives. So how was my statement not relevant? Free online does not equate to more consoles sales especially when a majority of xbox revenue is the live service. And if its about the x statement its to provide context that im not biased.

This post is relevant but the previous one was not. Maybe this is the post you should have made in the first place.

Anyway, it's possible that it will result in more sales (hardware and software) or it won't but I don't think things will remain as they are. Microsoft really can't start charging on PC (Steam could) so they will likely drop the fee to stand out.

 

[Wilhams]

This post is relevant but the previous one was not. Maybe this is the post you should have made in the first place.

Anyway, it's possible that it will result in more sales (hardware and software) or it won't but I don't think things will remain as they are. Microsoft really can't start charging on PC (Steam could) so they will likely drop the fee to stand out.

I can see them bundling the gold service with gamepass, so making online free but also providing an access for them to offset the lost in gold revenue.

 

[Zog]

I can see them bundling the gold service with gamepass, so making online free but also providing an access for them to offset the lost in gold revenue.

Yes, that would make sense.

 

[lifa-cobex]

BS, if Steam started charging PC gamers would mostly give in.

Dunno about that.
I think a company would see that as an opportunity to dig in.
Steam is arguably the better platform but I think that would piss a great deal of ppl to seek else where.

But then steam is a good setup so I dunno.

 

[meirl]

Most disgusting thread title ever. Wtf. As if MS is the only one that does this...

 

[-MD-]

BS, if Steam started charging PC gamers would mostly give in.

If that was true then it would already be in place and we'd already be paying the fees.

 

[deriks]

Because they force to pay

 

[Deputy Moonman]

I suspect the number of people playing xbox games on pc is quite small in comparison to the total number of people playing on the xbox itself. Why would MS charge money to a small market when doing so could potentially turn them away. What purpose would that serve? MS cant really compete with Steam lol. For all the people that scoff at MS for not having true exclusives, how many of them are actually playing xbox games on pc? Some but it's more likely that most dont. It's too bad we dont have the data to break it down and see for ourselves. But back on topic and to the OP, you are way late to the party, complaining about having to pay for xbox live. Personally i see value in xbox live. I value the network and the servers, which do in fact cost something to maintain. I value the free games and the discouted ones. I value the ability to stay connected to friends and see what theyre up to. I value being able to share what im doing with others too. Subscription services are everywhere and not new at all. If MS views getting people who would never buy an xbox regardless to buy their games on pc, why not give them a pass? Ive had a not great but capable pc since 2011 and i still paid to play on xbox live. If the charge was extravagant i might be more put off but 5 dollars a month doesnt bother me and often you can find better deals for around 40 dollars a year. Thats $3.30 per month. People pay more for more obnoxious things on mobile devices.

 

[Zog]

If that was true then it would already be in place and we'd already be paying the fees.

It won't happen because it hasn't happened yet has to be some kind of fallacy. The same could have been said about PSN during the PS3 era too and it would have been false.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

OK I’ll bite.

You don’t get cheating hacked to fuck losers on console. You’re paying for a quality online experience untainted by wallhacks and aimbots/bots in general. I’ll be interested to see how they stop PC losers running cheats in any crossplay experiences going forwards.

Interested to know why you’ve chosen MS as your target here and not PSN or the upcoming Switch paid service or just used a generic “online console VS PC” as the basis for your bizarre argument?

This is a really bad thread. It might have worked to a very (very) slight degree if you’d argued that MS exclusives should allow online for free (as those which are XPA will be free to play online on PC) but you haven’t.

Man it's mind boggling to me when people try to act like PC is the wild west for cheating. It suggests to me that the person making the claim isn't as acquainted to the platform as they'd have others believe. I mean shit, I play PUBG and I don't even run into as many cheaters in that game (the game with the worst cheating I've ever seen on PC) as people who don't game on PC assume are on every PC game.

i wouldn't play with pc players. most are cheaters. if somas too cheap too pay 4 dollars a month they have a problem./how is that 1000 video card doing,lol

Most PC players are cheaters? I don't believe that you have a clue.

BS, if Steam started charging PC gamers would mostly give in.

No, if Steam started charging PC gamers a monthly fee to play online, you'd be witness to the single biggest backlash in gaming history. It'd make the X1 DRM debacle look like a joke.

 

[-MD-]

It won't happen because it hasn't happened yet has to be some kind of fallacy. The same could have been said about PSN during the PS3 era too and it would have been false.

Except it has happened, and it failed miserably. PC players didn't take the bait.

Valve could try but given what history has shown us it likely wouldn't go well for them.

 

[Droxcy]

People are already content with paying. I mean the switch from PlayStation 2 to Xbox Live, wasn't too harsh for me. Now a days I'm running an XBL sub, PSN sub, and still prefer to play on my PC just because. They're all different vibes and go different perks. People that say PC is cheating and trash are silly, 360 was full of them due to JTAGs and things of that nature, PS3 had its fair share as well. Either way you enjoy what you enjoy to play.

 

[Danjin44]

I think we shouldn't pay for online gaming period. it doesn't matter MS, Sony or Nintendo. We already paying for our internet, we shouldn't extra money just so we can play online. Thankfully I stopped playing MP games long time a go, so I don't really need to worry about this stuff.

 

[Fbh]

Because PC is an open platform. If MS starts charging for multiplayer on their PC games then people will just stop playing them and get their multiplayer fill on Steam or Battlenet or Origin or GOG or pretty much any other storefront, which isn't good for neither MS nor the consumers. Hell, the vast majority of people on PC are already spending their time on non MS games so being the only company charging for multiplayer is about the worst thing you can do to attract new consumers
Consoles are closed systems so implementing paid online is easier since there is literally no other option available on the platform

It's the same logic as to why a bottle of water costs $2 or more at amusement parks or tourist attractions: because right there and now there is no other option.
You can't get away with the same prices in the city because just across the street there's probably 4 different stores selling the same bottle of water for half the price

Most disgusting thread title ever. Wtf. As if MS is the only one that does this...

Well I mean, it's not that I agree with the Op but technically they are since the other 2 companies that charge for multiplayer on their systems (Sony and soon to be Nintendo) don't release their games on PC