Yep.
I did not like Darth Maul's death in that scene. He just stood there and took it.
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So where does the end duel of The Force Awakens rank within all SW duels? [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter Shadow_Lord
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I did not like Darth Maul's death in that scene. He just stood there and took it.
Prequels show highly trained dancers twirling around colored light-up batons. Original is more Kendo, TFA is more European swordfighting.
As for ranking:
- TFA = RoTJ (balance of points comes from technical differences)
- ESB
- Star Wars
- Prequel Shit
The duel in TFA tells a story using characters introduced to us instead of being a lightsaber fight for the sake of a lightsaber fight. At the same time it's far more dynamic than the OT duels, while looking more like two people trying to kill each other with swords, unlike the PT duels.
Bucket Mouse
Member
Worst scene of the movie.
Starsailor
Banned
excelsiorlef
Member
SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
Something about the effects, the sounds, and the cinematography of the Force awakens made every light saber combat scene feel so weighty and so grounded. I loved them.
Yes.
I loved the lightsaber fights in TFA. So so refreshing, so much weight and struggle behind each hit. It felt like a medieval battle and not a kung fu movie-- no preference for either style, but I just liked that in The Force Awakens when compared to the zero-g hypertwirls of the prequels.
As others have said, I like how weighty and brutal it felt.
Oddly my biggest complaint is that I don't think it should have taken place, and they should have held off until the next movie, to build tension and motivation.
I don't know if the movie could have gotten away with out having a proper light saber duel though.
Oddly my biggest complaint is that I don't think it should have taken place, and they should have held off until the next movie, to build tension and motivation.
I don't know if the movie could have gotten away with out having a proper light saber duel though.
There are more than a few real life fighting styles that resemble dancing, so this is pretty disingenuous.
Can't be. It's already a classic moment within the Star Wars universe. Everyone I've talked to mentioned that as their favorite scene.
The Xtortionist
Member
heavy as fuck sound design for saber clashes
sparks
sabers emitting light
the environment getting torn up
shit was amazing
What's frustrating about all the "prequel anime garbage" posts in this thread is that there is some really incredible choreography on display in the Maul fight. Ray Park is a talented stunt actor and it shows.Man, maul vs obi wan is so good.
The only real problem with the Maul battle (And it's a big one) is that there's no fucking reason to care about it until Qui-Gon dies. It's just a distraction from the story the rest of the plot was building towards.
Made me laugh
Obliterator
Member
Rey was already 'levelling up' her force abilities and was going to get her map to Luke anyway, presumably to be trained, at which point any 'levelling up' becomes meaningless as it would have happened if she'd escaped without further incident.
Kylo gets a dressing down from Rey, but he'd already had a dressing down from Rey in the interrogation scene. His face is messed up, but he was already wearing a mask half the time anyway so it hardly seems like a big deal at this point. Essentially he has 'You lost to a GIRL!' tattooed to his face in a much less subtle and interesting way than he already had after the interrogation scene.
Finn is the only one who might have an interesting outcome depending how his injury plays out, but essentially his only job is to be brave then get sliced and drop the lightsabre so that Rey can Force Pull it better than Kylo.
It was a lightsabre battle because it's a Star Wars film and we have to have a lightsabre battle. That's okay in itself, but unfortunately in line with most of the rest of the movie they couldn't think of a way for it to mean very much. All the characters are doing is bludgening you over the head with their roles as they've already been defined in the rest of the film incase you haven't been paying attention or were asleep.
I like all the new characters, they're the best thing about the movie, the end fight just wasn't very good.
Starsailor
Banned
are you insane? It's the first time in the entire saga that i have that feeling that the Light and the Dark side are REALLY fighting each other.
GiantEnemyGoomba
Member
For real. I don't care how silly the prequel fights are; the fight in ANH is pitiful. Go back and try to keep a straight face when Ben does the goofiest twirl that takes about full second to complete.
Naughty_Doge
Member
It's last in my top 5.
1. Luke vs Darth Vader (ROTJ)
2. Luke vs Darth Vader (ESB)
3. Obi Wan/Qui Gon vs Darth Maul
4. Anakin vs Obi Wan
5. Rey/Finn vs Kylo Ren
Previous 5th would have been Darth Sidious vs Yoda
1. Luke vs Darth Vader (ROTJ)
2. Luke vs Darth Vader (ESB)
3. Obi Wan/Qui Gon vs Darth Maul
4. Anakin vs Obi Wan
5. Rey/Finn vs Kylo Ren
Previous 5th would have been Darth Sidious vs Yoda
Bucket Mouse
Member
This time last year I made the case for the TFA duels having the same sort of visceral style as the swordfights in Game of Thrones. Looks like I got my wish.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Finn vs Riot Control Stormtrooper alone was better than any fight in the PT.
Theodoricos
Member
I unironically agree with this.
Gotta respect the classic lightsaber duel! XD
Come on dude, dont be that guy...
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
1 ROTJ - The greatest, lots of emotions here.
2 ESB - Intense, you can sense the fear
3 ROTS - Exciting to watch
4 TFA - Most brutal by far
5 ANH - A classic duel
6 The Clone Wars / Rebels - Really fun to watch
POWER GAP
7 TPM / AOTC - Too rehearsed, feels stiff. Looks like a step by step dance with almost no feels going on.
2 ESB - Intense, you can sense the fear
3 ROTS - Exciting to watch
4 TFA - Most brutal by far
5 ANH - A classic duel
6 The Clone Wars / Rebels - Really fun to watch
POWER GAP
7 TPM / AOTC - Too rehearsed, feels stiff. Looks like a step by step dance with almost no feels going on.
Well, I understand that an insane person will consider themselves sane, so I'm not the best person to ask there. No official diagnosis I'm aware of.
The ROTS fight where I knew both combatants HAD to survive was somehow less predictable than the snoozefest in TFA.
Yeah i cant take these posters seriously, it was terrible apart form perhaps emotion. In fact the prequel enriches this showdown.
TFA was wonderful, more than any other duel the fighters made the lighsaber seem like a terrifying weapon. Also love the touch that Rey/Ren havent been trained in a classic sense, and as such have gaps in their technique .
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
TFA is my favorite because of the feel of weight and desperation.
Empire Strikes Back finale and Return of the Jedi finale are the best after that.
Empire Strikes Back finale and Return of the Jedi finale are the best after that.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Gotta be fuckin with people. That moment is like the most Star Wars moment in a film that's trying to be nothing BUT a collection of Star Wars moments.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
tfa easily has the best duel so far. that said, none of the duels in the entire franchise has really great choreography. i would almost rather have cgi actors if we could get a more realistic looking sword fight out of it. either that or the stunt guys from the raid.
the original trilogy might have had the duels with the most gravitas since laser swords were a new concept back then, but i saw the original trilogy recently and the choreography really doesn't hold up well.
the original trilogy might have had the duels with the most gravitas since laser swords were a new concept back then, but i saw the original trilogy recently and the choreography really doesn't hold up well.
DerZuhälter
Member
Only Dooku vs Yoda was worse.
Yup. Although I might swap Rey/Finn/Kylo into spot #2 if I'm in the right mood.
Having rewatched Jedi right before TFA, it struck me that the actual fight isn't really all that outstanding, minus the bit in the tracking shot gif that is always posted, and immediately after that. ESB is better on that front for me. But the catharsis and character context of the ROTJ fight make up for that.
The TFA duel kind of has it beat handily on the fight front, and the character aspect is already great and has the potential to grow over time.
They'd have to put some fucking work in on these next films to beat ESB though. And it's probably impossible if you include "No, I am your father," as part of the duel.
Man, maul vs obi wan is so good.
Possibly the best part of that fight. Too bad they threw in that freaking ridiculous jump at the end of that (while Maul just turned and stood there).:x
RockTurtle
Member
I would rank it at the top if the fight took an epic twist like this!
but that would be incest
Kappa
search your heart, you know it to be true
search your heart, you know it to be true
Obliterator
Member
The best part about TFA duel, is flat out the people involved are trying to kill one another, and its obvious. Every slash is a kill blow, or to set up a killing strike and you can tell it was choreographed this way. Its not dancing around, its not theatrics, its a visceral to the death fight.
breadtruck
Member
Yeah, same here now...
And that's how lightsaber duels should be!!!
I'll allow it.
TFA is the best I think overall in terms of technical execution, emotional resonance and purpose to the plot. ESB and RotJ both those have much greater emotional weight behind them, but lack the technical prowess that TFA displays. While all three, have rather strong reasons plot wise to exist. ANH hope is easily the weakest. Execution wise the fight is very lackluster, but that's OK given that the far more important aspect of it is to provide a confrontation between Obi-Wan and Vader and cement our disdain for him. As well as show that the Force is more than just marital prowess, something the prequels throw out the window altogether.
All of the prequel films fail in terms of technical execution and generally suffer from poor emotional weight as a result, along with having rather meaningless existence to the plot and overall story, if not outright undermining the series as a whole. Namely Yoda's two fights which should never have existed and were antithetical to his character and everything he stood for. The excessive twirling and flourishes remove all weight, both physically and emotionally, from the fights. You never have a sense of the tide of battle in them. It's just two dudes spinning around parrying weightless attacks at lightening speed. It's impossible to track or see any real flow of battle so it's hard to really get drawn into them in any significant way.
Qui-Gon dies out of now where. His fight with Maul was evenly matched and then boom he gets abruptly whacked in the face and stabbed, where up to that point there wasn't any discernible advantage between the two. Anakin initially gets trounced by Dooku but on his second try he more or less holds his own against him and despite all that a seemingly standard overly choreographed parry between the two ends with Anakin's arm suddenly getting hacked off and the fights over. Then in RotS Obi-Wan and Anakin spend like 10 minutes painstakingly establishing they're evenly matched in every fucking way only to magically bring up the high ground that lets Obi-Wan to decimate Anakin as he stupidly flips around in the air.
In Empire, Jedi and Awakening, especially the latter, every attack was much more weighty and dramatic. You could see and feel the characters absorbing every strike. You could easily sense when they were on the ropes and when they were on the attack. The stakes felt high in each one, where nearly every attack could be the end. It wasn't a dance between the two combatants but a desperate struggle to kill or be killed.
TFA really excelled in this due to the great fight choreography and special effects, as well as the solid acting of the combatants who did a great job showing their fatigue, anger and fear during the fights. Attacks didn't feel weighty just because of the effects but also because of the convincing expressions from the actors in conjunction with the overall choreography.
The fact that Yoda fought at all in the prequels was one of the dumbest things they ever did with that trilogy. His entire existence in the original trilogy, and Obi-Wan's as well, was to show Luke there was more to the Force than just fighting. That true strength was obtained by not fighting, but trusting in the Force. That was the entire point to the battle in RotJ. Luke originally refused to join the Emperor and to fight Vader, he would not fight his father. But his love for his sister, Leia, pushed him too far and he gave in to his emotions and attacked his father in anger and fear. Beating him down and cutting his hand off. But he stopped, regaining his composure and once again refused to strike down his father or the Emperor. He was trusting in the Force and even while being electrocuted to death refused to fight back believing in the Force and his Father. And he was rewarded for it. The Emperor was destroyed, his Father was redeemed and the Empire was destroyed.
The fact that Yoda and Dooku fought in AotC and started with a duel of Force powers only to have Dooku state "It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the force, but by our skills with a lightsaber." That makes no fucking sense at all. The Force is everything in Star Wars, but nope they wanted to have that cool Yoda in a lightsaber battle shit so who cares.
All of the prequel films fail in terms of technical execution and generally suffer from poor emotional weight as a result, along with having rather meaningless existence to the plot and overall story, if not outright undermining the series as a whole. Namely Yoda's two fights which should never have existed and were antithetical to his character and everything he stood for. The excessive twirling and flourishes remove all weight, both physically and emotionally, from the fights. You never have a sense of the tide of battle in them. It's just two dudes spinning around parrying weightless attacks at lightening speed. It's impossible to track or see any real flow of battle so it's hard to really get drawn into them in any significant way.
Qui-Gon dies out of now where. His fight with Maul was evenly matched and then boom he gets abruptly whacked in the face and stabbed, where up to that point there wasn't any discernible advantage between the two. Anakin initially gets trounced by Dooku but on his second try he more or less holds his own against him and despite all that a seemingly standard overly choreographed parry between the two ends with Anakin's arm suddenly getting hacked off and the fights over. Then in RotS Obi-Wan and Anakin spend like 10 minutes painstakingly establishing they're evenly matched in every fucking way only to magically bring up the high ground that lets Obi-Wan to decimate Anakin as he stupidly flips around in the air.
In Empire, Jedi and Awakening, especially the latter, every attack was much more weighty and dramatic. You could see and feel the characters absorbing every strike. You could easily sense when they were on the ropes and when they were on the attack. The stakes felt high in each one, where nearly every attack could be the end. It wasn't a dance between the two combatants but a desperate struggle to kill or be killed.
TFA really excelled in this due to the great fight choreography and special effects, as well as the solid acting of the combatants who did a great job showing their fatigue, anger and fear during the fights. Attacks didn't feel weighty just because of the effects but also because of the convincing expressions from the actors in conjunction with the overall choreography.
The fact that Yoda fought at all in the prequels was one of the dumbest things they ever did with that trilogy. His entire existence in the original trilogy, and Obi-Wan's as well, was to show Luke there was more to the Force than just fighting. That true strength was obtained by not fighting, but trusting in the Force. That was the entire point to the battle in RotJ. Luke originally refused to join the Emperor and to fight Vader, he would not fight his father. But his love for his sister, Leia, pushed him too far and he gave in to his emotions and attacked his father in anger and fear. Beating him down and cutting his hand off. But he stopped, regaining his composure and once again refused to strike down his father or the Emperor. He was trusting in the Force and even while being electrocuted to death refused to fight back believing in the Force and his Father. And he was rewarded for it. The Emperor was destroyed, his Father was redeemed and the Empire was destroyed.
The fact that Yoda and Dooku fought in AotC and started with a duel of Force powers only to have Dooku state "It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the force, but by our skills with a lightsaber." That makes no fucking sense at all. The Force is everything in Star Wars, but nope they wanted to have that cool Yoda in a lightsaber battle shit so who cares.
Dusk Soldier
Member
Yeah I kinda feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
How does the final duel in ROTJ beat out either Yoda vs Palpatine, or Obi Wan vs Vader?
1. Empire
2. Jedi
3. TFA
4. ANH
5. TPM
6/7. AotC/RotS
TFA is in a tentative spot, because I've only seen it once.
I don't think anything can beat ESB, it's just the perfect fight. From the choreography of Vader using one hand throughout the start of the fight and then silently bringing both hands together as if to say "Now witness the true power of the dark side" before completely dominating Luke, to the imagery created by the amazing sets and editing, and of course the entire build up to the climactic "No, I am your father" and Luke's choice of death over the dark side.
I consider Obi-wan's self-sacrifice to be more meaningful than anything in the prequel battles.
TPM I put above the other two, because the fight is for the most part still grounded in reality. AotC and RotS lightsaber battles are just cartoon fights that I find hard to believe anyone would take seriously.
2. Jedi
3. TFA
4. ANH
5. TPM
6/7. AotC/RotS
TFA is in a tentative spot, because I've only seen it once.
I don't think anything can beat ESB, it's just the perfect fight. From the choreography of Vader using one hand throughout the start of the fight and then silently bringing both hands together as if to say "Now witness the true power of the dark side" before completely dominating Luke, to the imagery created by the amazing sets and editing, and of course the entire build up to the climactic "No, I am your father" and Luke's choice of death over the dark side.
I consider Obi-wan's self-sacrifice to be more meaningful than anything in the prequel battles.
TPM I put above the other two, because the fight is for the most part still grounded in reality. AotC and RotS lightsaber battles are just cartoon fights that I find hard to believe anyone would take seriously.
Trigonometrize.
Member
TFA fight is awesome as a climax of the movie. Loved the falling trees and you could feel the intensity of Finn and Kylo. Not as good as both Luke vs Vader fights, especially Jedi, but was still great.
By the way, Obi-Wan and Quigon vs Maul was straight garbage and worst of the saga. Fight went on too long to get to Quigon dying as the exact same role of Obi-Wan from the original (poetry) and leaving both Kenobi and Maul being nothing characters the entire movie to swing at the air around each other really fast. Awesome.
By the way, Obi-Wan and Quigon vs Maul was straight garbage and worst of the saga. Fight went on too long to get to Quigon dying as the exact same role of Obi-Wan from the original (poetry) and leaving both Kenobi and Maul being nothing characters the entire movie to swing at the air around each other really fast. Awesome.
Lightsaber fights are about the characters and the meanings behind the swinging to some and not about the senator balconies flying through the air.
Obliterator
Member
It actually has meaning to the fight. Half of the duels in the Prequels just feel like a CG shitshow with little to now meaning or impact. The exception to this being the Maul fight
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