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Some people expected 30fps games to still be the norm in the new generation but so far I can't think of any PS5 / Xbox Series X game without 60fps

DonJuanSchlong

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Based on recent results it looks like like 6800 XT is slightly ahead of 3080, I expect same to happen with 6900XT vs 3900 and 6800 vs 3070. RDNA 2 was huge leap for AMD and AMD promises RDNA 3 will do the same; it will be close fight between Nvidia and AMD but I expect AMD to have edge
An edge in what, just rasterization? Definitely not with raytracing or DLSS enabled. And we're going into a generation of *drumroll* Raytracing to be exact. It's been proven time and time again, all over the net if you'd like to look at recent results. Cyberpunk is going to really show the difference when it releases.
 

just-a-spaz

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I think games in the future will target 30fps because devs are going to want to use more ray tracing features and it's going to bring the frame rate down. Sometimes I wonder if Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition would've had ALL the ray tracing features turned on (including reflections) if they let it go to 30fps. Maybe still not possible, I dunno.
 

Skifi28

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Wait 2 years. Now, all games have PS4 scope, so 60fps are easily achievable. 60fps is a burden for improved graphic fidelity and even more taxing than 4k.
The thing is, you don't have to do 4K. In the previous generations, 60fps was usually a CPU limit, it was basically impossible for many games to achieve it regardless of settings. No matter how visually taxing a game is now, there will always be room for a 60fps lower res /no RT mode in the new consoles assuming the devs have the time to do it.
 

just-a-spaz

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The thing is, you don't have to do 4K. In the previous generations, 60fps was usually a CPU limit, it was basically impossible for many games to achieve it regardless of settings. No matter how visually taxing a game is now, there will always be room for a 60fps lower res /no RT mode in the new consoles assuming the devs have the time to do it.
Who's to say newer game engines and tech won't be taxing on the CPU? If DriveClub, The Order 1886, TLOU2 and RDR2 were all possible on last gen, I can't even imagine what's possible with this new hardware. I have a feeling we haven't really seen anything yet. R&C:RA looks freakin' awesome, but that game is hard to judge because it's kinda cartoony.
 

elliot5

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Microsoft is extremely based for releasing the Xbox Series S because it basically builds in a 60 FPS spec for the XSX and PS5.
 
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Skifi28

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Who's to say newer game engines and tech won't be taxing on the CPU? If DriveClub, The Order 1886, TLOU2 and RDR2 were all possible on last gen, I can't even imagine what's possible with this new hardware. I have a feeling we haven't really seen anything yet. R&C:RA looks freakin' awesome, but that game is hard to judge because it's kinda cartoony.
Pushing a CPU is usually much harder than pushing a gpu. I'm sure there will be select few cases, but I expect the vast majority of games to be able to push 60fps from the CPU side seeing how the consoles can even push 120 now.
 
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just-a-spaz

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Pushing a CPU is usually much harder than pushing a gpu. I'm sure there will be select few cases, but I expect the vast majority of games to be able to push 60fps from the CPU side seeing how the consoles can even push 120 now.
Even for stuff like ray tracing and the tech that UE5 is using?
 

Shubh_C63

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Only enthusiast market is asking for 60 fps. No next gen power is enough power, they will keep making beautiful looking games at solid 30fps.

Maybe games where fps are more noticeable like fast paced shooters after 2-3 years when PS5 exclusive shit starts dropping.
 

Skifi28

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Even for stuff like ray tracing and the tech that UE5 is using?
To my knowledge, these are all tasks that fall to the Gpu. I imagine that a mode without RT will be enough for most games to reach 60fps.

Of course it's still early in the generation and things can always change, but since the ps3/360 there has been little change in how games are made and how their engines work in regards to the CPU (for the most part). Personally I don't expect the majority of developers/engines to reinvent the wheel. I guess we will see.
 
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99Luffy

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I think 60fps will be the norm because dynamic 1080p-4K will be the norm. Even lumen is aiming for 60fps
Lumen is an early ambitious technology and is currently running at a 30FPS budget on next-gen console. The team is hard at work on optimizing and we are aiming for a 60 hertz budget on release.

And really the series S makes it easier. If a game needs to achieve ~1080p 30fps minimum for series S, 60fps is gonna be a given on the other consoles.
 

just-a-spaz

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To my knowledge, these are all tasks that fall to the Gpu. I imagine that a mode without RT will be enough for most games to reach 60fps.

Of course it's still early in the generation and things can always change, but since the ps3/360 there has been little change in how games are made and how their engines work in regards to the CPU (for the most part). Personally I don't expect the majority of developers/engines to reinvent the wheel. I guess we will see.
In order for tech to move on and advance, they need to change how they do things. Given that ray tracing reduces the work load, I wouldn't be surprised if more games and engines rely on ray tracing with no ability to turn it off. Having to make cube maps or bake in GI for example just for a no-ray-tracing mode.

I think 60fps will be the norm because dynamic 1080p-4K will be the norm. Even lumen is aiming for 60fps


And really the series S makes it easier. If a game needs to achieve ~1080p 30fps minimum for series S, 60fps is gonna be a given on the other consoles.
That's really sad. Sucks that the series S has to pull everything else down with it because it's a slow piece of crap. It's going to cause a lot of devs to dumb down their game engines because they need to cater to the lowest hardware spec and go from there.
 
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99Luffy

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In order for tech to move on and advance, they need to change how they do things. Given that ray tracing reduces the work load, I wouldn't be surprised if more games and engines rely on ray tracing with no ability to turn it off. Having to make cube maps or bake in GI for example just for a no-ray-tracing mode.


That's really sad. Sucks that the series S has to pull everything else down with it because it's a slow piece of crap. It's going to cause a lot of devs to dumb down their game engines because they need to cater to the lowest hardware spec and go from there.
I dont see it as a bad thing personally. Its like when people were complaining that the PS4 held back PC games.. well its because of the PS4 that everyone's 1060 played everything at 60fps+
Adoption of 1440p was already slow on PC, can you imagine how much slower it would have been if we needed 1080ti's minimum to get that resolution?
 
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Skifi28

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In order for tech to move on and advance, they need to change how they do things. Given that ray tracing reduces the work load, I wouldn't be surprised if more games and engines rely on ray tracing with no ability to turn it off. Having to make cube maps or bake in GI for example just for a no-ray-tracing mode.
The current consoles aren't exactly powerhouses when it comes to RT, the cross-gen period is going to last for quite a while seeing how hard it is to grab a new console still and devs still need to account for those millions of PC gamers with no RT capable card. We're many years away from games being made exclusively with RT.
 

just-a-spaz

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The current consoles aren't exactly powerhouses when it comes to RT, the cross-gen period is going to last for quite a while seeing how hard it is to grab a new console still and devs still need to account for those millions of PC gamers with no RT capable card. We're many years away from games being made exclusively with RT.
You have to admit though, when consoles get a certain tech, then PC games start requiring that tech and people have to upgrade their graphics cards. This is the way it has always been. A new PC generation doesn't start until a new console generation starts.

For example, would we have gotten Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition if there wasn't a new console generation? Probably not.
 

TonyK

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The thing is, you don't have to do 4K. In the previous generations, 60fps was usually a CPU limit, it was basically impossible for many games to achieve it regardless of settings. No matter how visually taxing a game is now, there will always be room for a 60fps lower res /no RT mode in the new consoles assuming the devs have the time to do it.
I'm not sure about that. I played on PC during almost all PS4 generation and there were games that it was impossible for my rig to achieve constant 60fps even lowering the settings to minimum. It's because that I played almost all AAA games on PC at 4k 30fps. But 60fps it's not as simple as to reduce resolution and some graphical settings.

For example, imagine Assassin's Crees Valhalla or Resident Evil village. Both games are crossgen and both have some problems to sustain 60fps in specific places in Ps5 (I played and finished both). Now imagine the next iterations, more demanding than actual cross gen games. I think we will return to 30fps in 2 or 3 years.
 
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There’s only 2 next gen games. Godfall and Demon’s Souls

Majority are cross gen so the sample size is inefficient.
What makes you think a developer is going to 1) Make a game that needs more than a high end Ryzen 8 core / 16 thread CPU to hit 60fps on PC or 2) make a game that is gpu bound by a 10tflop gpu in order to hit 60fps on PC knowing the average gamers rig?

60fps will be the standard this generation at least as an option on console at the expensive of resolution. It’s time PC gamers get over this.
 
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RoboFu

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scalability has become so easy withj standardized hardware and methods that taking the small ammount of effort to tune a 60fps mode is a no brainer than like it has been in the past.
 

ClosBSAS

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Lol, all u have seen are cross gen games with ba few exceptions. Trust me, 60f0s is not a standard yet. 9nce next gen truly begins, well see.
 
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killatopak

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What makes you think a developer is going to 1) Make a game that needs more than a high end Ryzen 8 core / 16 thread CPU to hit 60fps on PC or 2) make a game that is gpu bound by a 10tflop gpu in order to hit 60fps on PC knowing the average gamers rig?

60fps will be the standard this generation at least as an option on console at the expensive of resolution. It’s time PC gamers get over this.
Ray Tracing
 

Dream-Knife

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The thing is, you don't have to do 4K. In the previous generations, 60fps was usually a CPU limit, it was basically impossible for many games to achieve it regardless of settings. No matter how visually taxing a game is now, there will always be room for a 60fps lower res /no RT mode in the new consoles assuming the devs have the time to do it.
We know how that turned out.
Ray Tracing
They've gotten so good at faking RT, that the performance cost isn't really worth it.
 

just-a-spaz

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What makes you think a developer is going to 1) Make a game that needs more than a high end Ryzen 8 core / 16 thread CPU to hit 60fps on PC or 2) make a game that is gpu bound by a 10tflop gpu in order to hit 60fps on PC knowing the average gamers rig?

60fps will be the standard this generation at least as an option on console at the expensive of resolution. It’s time PC gamers get over this.
Yeah and we'll never need more than 64K of RAM either.
 

mxbison

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60fps (and loading times) is the only selling point right now because it's a bunch of last-gen games on a next-gen system.

30fps will come back for sure.
 

Kokoloko85

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60fps (and loading times) is the only selling point right now because it's a bunch of last-gen games on a next-gen system.

30fps will come back for sure.
Returnal was 60fps. The new Ratchet and Clank is 60fps too, but has a 30fps option

I think the choice of 30/60fps will be the norm thanks to PS4 Pro and Xbox 1 X coming out mid gen to offer that choice on the games. It opened the gate
 
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DanEON

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Forget 4K, it's a waste of GPU resources.

How about 1440p@30 w/ incredible visuals?
It depends on the game. If its a shooter then 30fps is a big NO for me. But games like God of War, where the visuals really make part of the experience, then I would take the 30fps.
 
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Kataploom

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Considering that CPU is finally not a bottleneck this gen and that we have some features for efficiency like Mesh shader and SFS... Sure not, I expect this gen to gain in performance much more than in previous gen, we'll finally see the revolution we saw in previous gens that was not in 8th gen
 
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Yeah and we'll never need more than 64K of RAM either.
So what’s your point?

Are we suddenly going to see mainstream PC gamers get 16 core / 32 thread CPU’s and 20tflop GPU’s over the next couple of years in order to double console FPS performance?...
 

Md Ray

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It depends on the game. If its a shooter then 30fps is a big NO for me. But games like God of War, where the visuals really make part of the experience, then I would take the 30fps.
I agree. Studios like MachineGames or Id Software with their DOOM franchise will always target 60fps minimum. I have a feeling they may even shoot for 120fps this time around.
 
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sunnysideup

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Consistant framerate that is compatible with the display is more important than higher framerate.

I much rather take rock solid 30 than unlocked
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Depending on the games, I can still play 30fps when graphics are their, but with what Returnal's final image at a base 1080p it looks so good that I would rather go for 60fps in most cases. It all depends on the final image and DRS is a great solution as well.
 

Skifi28

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For example, imagine Assassin's Crees Valhalla or Resident Evil village. Both games are crossgen and both have some problems to sustain 60fps in specific places in Ps5 (I played and finished both). Now imagine the next iterations, more demanding than actual cross gen games. I think we will return to 30fps in 2 or 3 years.
In village the fps issues are gpu related causes by RT, playing with it off the game runs at 60fps 100% of the time. Valhalla is 99% at 60 and what little issues remain are probably gpu related seeing there's DRS in the game. The cpus are nowhere near maxed out and I doubt they'll be any time soon. Both consoles are gpu limited in most scenarios.
 
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Ratchet will be a good litmus test

I am 100% OK with 1440/30 if it really pushes visuals

not all games need 60fps. If you switch back and forth it can initially be jarring, but you get used to it

something quick like Returnal needs 60fps...but TLOU? Not so much
 
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just-a-spaz

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In village the fps issues are gpu related causes by RT, playing with it off the game runs at 60fps 100% of the time. Valhalla is 99% at 60 and what little issues remain are probably gpu related seeing there's DRS in the game. The cpus are nowhere near maxed out and I doubt they'll be any time soon. Both consoles are gpu limited in most scenarios.
AC Valhalla and Village are hardly demanding since they're cross gen games. Valhalla is this generation's Black Flag so to speak.

Ratchet will be a good litmus test

I am 100% OK with 1440/30 if it really pushes visuals

not all games need 60fps. If you switch back and forth it can initially be jarring, but you get used to it

something quick like Returnal needs 60fps...but TLOU? Not so much
Exactly. Not every game needs or should have 60fps. If the visuals require 30fps, then I'm good with 30fps, however if I'm playing TLOU2 at 60fps, there's literally no downgrade to the visuals, so 60 is okay with me, since changing it to 30 doesn't add anything to the experience.
 
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MvCSpiderman

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Well when most games are crossgen with Jaguar games 60fps better be the damn minimum.

It'll drop to 30fps in a couple years though.
 
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