Astral Dog
Member
Sonic HEROES clearly wasn,t intented to be Adventure 3 or any continuation. was a completely different thing
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Sonic Adventure 3 may never happen
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
Sonic HEROES clearly wasn,t intented to be Adventure 3 or any continuation. was a completely different thing
It featured characters from SA1/2, levels not unlike the speed stages in SA2, and a similarly absurd "Eggman unleashes an ultimate evil and needs everyone else to fix it" plot like both games.
It's not hard to draw parallels.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Hand it off to Americans to produce. It worked for Sonic Mania.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Easy, fuse Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2, throw out:
- the overworld of SA1
- Knuckles, Amy, Big, Mech-Tails, Eggman, Rouge, E-102
- Chao Garden
- Mission 3 (Lost Chao) from Sonic Adventure 2 levels
- Ring threshold in Casinopolis
Done, fantastic game.
Star Orpheus
Member
No. Half the reason I want a new Adventure game was to play as Tails and Knuckles again.
I hate that 06 and the "Shitty friends" meme has basically killed non hedgehogs in 3D Sonic games.
They can improve the gameplay without ditching the entire cast.
CanUKlehead
Member
Fine by me if it never happens.
I only played through the Sonic section of SA (the shitty friends didn't appeal to me) and I hated that they forced me to play the other/non-Sonic/Shadow types of levels in SA2.
Overrated dreck.
I only played through the Sonic section of SA (the shitty friends didn't appeal to me) and I hated that they forced me to play the other/non-Sonic/Shadow types of levels in SA2.
Overrated dreck.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Adventure 1 Tails would be retained. It is not about the characters, but their gameplay and my posting was about making a good Sonic Adventure without creating new content. Ideally, a new Sonic Adventure would offer Sonic, Tail, Knuckles and Shadow gameplay, where
- Sonic plays like boost Sonic (full 3D)
- Tails plays like classic Sonic (1-3K / Mania / CD, full 2D)
- Knuckles plays like Adventure Sonic (full 3D)
- Shadow plays like Rush Sonic (full 2D)
But sure as hell no "find emeralds using a beeping sound" or "go fishing" or "play the same thing 1000 times to grind materials" or "walk through empty overworld" or "play unwieldy and slow hammer Amy". Or Werehog, for that matter.
Arc Christelle
Member
I gotchu fam.
Acquiescence
Member
I know it's a reviled game now, but what I'd give for a Sonic Adventure 3 that's made in the same vein as the first one. That structure of alternating between standard action stages and segments spent in a chilled hub area with fantastic music that you can just fuck around in for a bit and chat with folks and what not.
Make that a launch title for the Dreamcast 2 and I can be a kid again.
Make that a launch title for the Dreamcast 2 and I can be a kid again.
The plot wasn't remotely similar to the tone of the Adventure games, Heroes was way more lighthearted and basically had no depth to its story. Only having levels similar to SA2's speed stages is also a far cry from the multiple playstyles the previous two games were known for. Honestly the only parallel to be drawn is the fact that it's also a 3D Sonic game.
When people say they want a new Adventure game - they mean they want one like Adventure 1 with a hub, diversions and multiple character storyline, right?
Because Heroes, Shadow and 06 are like Adventure 2. In fact the werehog stages of Unleashed, the gimmicks of the wii games, the Wisps of Colours - heck even the split between modern and sonic gameplay of Generations and the upcoming Forces have kept up the tradition of having 3D sonic get mixed together with other gameplay types - presented in a simple hub like menu.
Sonic's levels have been tweaked and made a little more linear, but that's about it. Adventure's stages weren't Super Mario 64s arenas - the only thing that gets close is Casino Nights Zone and the Knuckles stages.
I'd be happy to see them drop Adventure's aesthetic and narrative and just have classic style sonic levels in full 3D - a little like Lost World was trying to do. Mania's assets in 3D seems doable and the best possible scenario.
Because Heroes, Shadow and 06 are like Adventure 2. In fact the werehog stages of Unleashed, the gimmicks of the wii games, the Wisps of Colours - heck even the split between modern and sonic gameplay of Generations and the upcoming Forces have kept up the tradition of having 3D sonic get mixed together with other gameplay types - presented in a simple hub like menu.
Sonic's levels have been tweaked and made a little more linear, but that's about it. Adventure's stages weren't Super Mario 64s arenas - the only thing that gets close is Casino Nights Zone and the Knuckles stages.
I'd be happy to see them drop Adventure's aesthetic and narrative and just have classic style sonic levels in full 3D - a little like Lost World was trying to do. Mania's assets in 3D seems doable and the best possible scenario.
Taxman is Australian.
Okami Haundo
Member
I'd say this makes me sad, but I haven't played the "Adventure" games in so long that I don't know what I'd even want from a third installment. I just remember being quite fond of the Chao garden, and wishing that more of both games involved Sonic (Sonic/Shadow in SA2) rather than other characters.
Real talk, SA3 should just be a Big the Cat fishing game. Don't expand the controls, just make it 10 hours of the exact same gameplay that was in SA.
Real talk, SA3 should just be a Big the Cat fishing game. Don't expand the controls, just make it 10 hours of the exact same gameplay that was in SA.
Santerestil
Banned
Ssssshhh! Truth hurts and they are trying to sold a narrative!
I mean sure, but we've still got Eggman to blame for that.
I feel like you're being a bit disingenuous if you're going to tell me that being most like what people liked in the last game while cutting the fat that people were complaining about at the time makes it impossible to call them similar.
The story was lighter sure, but you still had the same beats of Metal Sonic wanting to rule the world through the power of an ultimate evil and the whole Shadow "real or copy" dilemma that ended up setting up ShTH.
yukimeans_snow
Member
I only gave a crap because I loved the Chao garden. Can we have that at least please?
deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
I don't really think the Sonic Team of today are even capable of making a Sonic Adventure 3. They could hardly just lift the SA1 gameplay because unlike Mania, the control, camera angles and stuff wouldn't fly today. And Lost World proved they have trouble making a 3D Sonic game that doesn't rely on boosting, 2D and automated set-pieces. That game had the right idea, but controlled like arse. Sonic Team's time is better spent refining one gameplay style, rather than attempting 3 to 6 things at the same time.
Plus why the demand for SA3, anyway? It's not like there are any dangling story threads that need resolving.
Plus why the demand for SA3, anyway? It's not like there are any dangling story threads that need resolving.
tbh it's chao garden. I loved an excuse to play through levels I enjoyed again and again to raise those guys.
Unknown?
Member
I actually like the emerald stages in the Adventure games. It was a good break but get rid of the mechs and keep Tails Adventure 1 gameplay.
Papo Swing
Member
Chaos Garden App!
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
I always thought that was Sonic Adventure 4, and this was Sonic Adventure 3:
Nah heroes is adventure 4 and 06 is sonic adventure 5
Shadow the hedgehog is adventure 3
Reading this thread is showing me that everyone seems to have wildly different opinions on what an "adventure game" is.
For me, I want a game that returns to the more open platforming levels and free-moving controls. The kind of gameplay that was used in all the 3D games until 06, but obviously more polished. I kinda consider 06 to be a (failed) attempt at bringing the adventure style back, with it sharing a lot of things with the adventure games like the medals, abundance of playable characters, hub world, etc. It obviously isn't good, but that's not an indication of the formula it tried to use being bad. I'm confident that an adventure style game could be done really well, if handled right.
Also gimme the damn Chao garden back. Hell, give me something using a new A-Life system, I don't care what it is.
For me, I want a game that returns to the more open platforming levels and free-moving controls. The kind of gameplay that was used in all the 3D games until 06, but obviously more polished. I kinda consider 06 to be a (failed) attempt at bringing the adventure style back, with it sharing a lot of things with the adventure games like the medals, abundance of playable characters, hub world, etc. It obviously isn't good, but that's not an indication of the formula it tried to use being bad. I'm confident that an adventure style game could be done really well, if handled right.
Also gimme the damn Chao garden back. Hell, give me something using a new A-Life system, I don't care what it is.
Siliconera reposted that interview snippet just now and actually reading it through is pretty weird. Like, what exactly is Iizuka saying? Sonic Adventure 3 will happen if doesn't "take Sonic backwards" - to the gameplay those fans want from Sonic Adventure? Why not just say, "We're not making it", lol.
From the developer standpoint, every Sonic game that were making is taking new steps and advances, furthering the game in a new direction, and thats dictated where the Sonic series has been going.
This shit
This shit right here, this is why lost world happened, this why shit has been the way it has been since 2005. Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel, just make a good video game my dude.
I don't think anyone thinks forces is furthering anything
I wouldn't call adding the trio gimmick, making players replay the exact same levels with slight differences 4 times instead of having varied campaigns and objectives for each character, and giving enemies (that took one hit to kill in previous games) huge healthbars to justify new unnecessary combat mechanics "cutting the fat". Like I said, they're just similar to the Sonic/Shadow stages, not actually a proper evolution of them.
As for the story, let me put it simply. In Adventure 2, Sonic doesn't just appear in Metal Harbor for the heck of it, he's there because he broke out of the base's prison after being caught in City Escape. Then he goes to Green Forest because Shadow is there trying to find the Chaos Emeralds, and so on. You couldn't really rearrange the level order of SA2 because everything is in service of the story with a logical progression. It's a large focus of the game.
Meanwhile in Heroes, none of the levels have any connection. They go to the tropical level, then a metropolis, then a casino, jungle, castle, etc. You could put them in any order and the game would be the same. There's no plot relevance to anything, it's just trying to be like the old Sonic games where there was no explanation for why any of the locales exist. What plot is there is minor and irrelevant to the rest of the game. See: the Android Shadow subplot, Chocola and Froggy being kidnapped, and the Metal Sonic reveal that only comes into play for the final boss.
Shadow came after Heroes though.
LordKasual
Banned
amen
Azure Phoenix
Member
Yes, why would you ever want to create a product that people want to buy? Madness. That could lead to such crazy situations as fans being employed to make a game, a recipe for disaster. The right idea is to give them exactly what they don't want, and take 4 years to do so.
This quote is especially odd because that feels like what Forces is. They prettymuch gave up on the promising parkour idea after borking it once, and just made a mishmash of stuff that got them good review scores in the past. Not to mention all the fan pandering with the retro villains returning, and Classic Sonic being back for no bloody reason except people liked Generations.
flashman92
Neo Member
I don't want to emerald hunt or pilot a mech, but I do want to play as Knuckles, Tails, and even Blaze in a 3D level designed either for them individually, or all the characters at once like Sonic 1-3
Characters with that much disparity between their gameplay mechanics demand distinct level design for each of them, which is never happening at any reasonable level of quality.
It didn't have the Chao Garden though so it doesn't count.=pIt happened, everyone just hated it.
Cutting the fat from a previous entry doesn't mean they can't bog it down more, but that's not at all the point I was making.
I'm not saying that Heroes is Adventure 3, and I feel like you've missed that at some point. But it's still very easy to see that Heroes was a continuation. Yes, it's not the same at everything it does, and they definitely make a point of cutting back of a lot of Adventure's features, but it still led directly into Shadow, which adheres to the story side of things much better and many aspects of the characters would make their way into Sonic 06, the next actual attempt at an Adventure game.
Heroes largely felt like a response to people only liking the Speed stages in the adventure titles, and made an attempt to work a lot of the superfluous gameplay elements into a standardized design, which is why you get (awful) things like the Chaotix exploration focused stages or increased emphasis on combat.
Bioshocker
Member
I think it was named Sonic Heroes.
I guess in his eyes the addition of the custom hero is the element in Forces that's pushing the franchise forward? It's still a weird position to take when they just released a Sonic game that steps the franchise back and gives fans what they want, to better critical reception than any of Sonic Team's own recent attempts no less.
Still not quite with ya on that one but at least we can agree that 06 was the next real attempt at the Adventure formula.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
I'm a pretty casual Sonic fan, but can someone explain to me why Sonic Team seems to find it so difficult to make a Sonic game without some stupid gimmick or draw back?
Megawarrior
Member
And shadows story was continued in it.
Sonic stages require high attention to detail, but are blown through in a matter of minutes, and thus producing a couple hours' worth of them consumes their budget. But they don't want to actually release a two hour game, so they recycle the content into other characters and gameplay archetypes to stretch out the experience.
The alternative is making a Colors or Lost World that seriously cheaps out on the level design to provide quantity at the cost of quality.
This has been a vicious ongoing cycle since 1998 and the economics behind it have not changed.
Exactly.
R_thanatos
Member
It happened, everyone just hated it.
I have to agree .
Then they made sonic WOLRD ADVENTURE , but for some reason it was called unleashed for us. and it was not that bad
I personally prefer the first option, I feel like you can actually do interesting with that if done well. I hope that they eventually go to more of that but with other characters.
goldenpp72
Member
Aside from tone it certainly seemed like they were going for that to me. No Chao I guess, but there were many more similarities to it than say, the boost series.
mugurumakensei
Member
When I say I want Sonic Adventure 3, I mean I want Chao Garden 3.
