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Sonic Generations - Happy

RK128

Member
Sonic-Generations.jpg


The goal ring is right here! Sonic Generations, the grand celebration of everything Sonic the Hedgehog, is the closing chapter for this very long Retrospective of the Blue Blur :).

I've had a great time making all of my Sonic threads, and this while being the final one, was still a blast to make.

Lets all blast through with Sonic speed, as we are going across three Era's of the speedy Hedgehog's adventures :D.

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It was rumored that development of Generations dates back too 2009, where both sectors of Sonic Team (the HD Studio that made Unleashed & its DLC levels, the Storybook team releasing Sonic & The Black Knight early 2009) were free. SEGA wanted an anniversary game for the IP to be produced and both worked together to get the game ready for 2010.

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Fast forward too 2010 and we surprisingly not see this anniversary game, instead getting Sonic & SEGA All Stars Racing, Sonic 4 Episode I, Sonic Free Riders, and Sonic Colors (Wii & DS). So, what happened?

Well, SEGA gave Sonic Team some breathing room for once and let an idea bloom; its rumored that the developers that made Sonic Colors Wii, which was originally a port of Sonic Generations. This happened before, with Sonic & The Secret Rings originally being a port of Sonic 06 before turning into a new game.

This can explain the DS version of Colors in a lot of ways (as it has all of Sonic's friends across the Eras) and why Generations 3DS, which I will touch on soon enough here, feels so under-cooked.

Either way, Generations was announced early 2011 and to say people were hyped was an understatement. Classic Sonic coming back! Green Hill-looking level! Modern Day Sonic & Retro Classic Sonic working side-by-side O_O! And a return to 2D Genesis gameplay for newer zones while Modern runs through 3D versions of older zones?!

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Sign me UP man XD! I was hyped for Generations and remember the hype for the game quite well. Made a EU account for the Classic/Modern Demo in September for my PS3, pre-ordered the game from my local games store, and it made me get a PS3 to begin with; only owned a Wii prior to Generations announcement and after I learned it wasn't a Wii title.....I just had to get a PS3 to play the game :D!

Fast forward to November and I get the game day-zero. And.........I love it. While I have some issues with the game, which I will touch on soon enough, it is one of the most polished Sonic titles you can find. Critics loved the game, fans enjoyed the game and critics of Sonic were more kind to the game, giving it a chance instead of outright saying it sucks.

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The Story......is nothing! I'm serious; Eggman's two selves (Classic and Modern) work together after Modern Eggman finding a being that can control time after the ending of Sonic Colors.

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He makes a machine that can use this time creature to ravage time itself and its up to Sonic and his classic self to save the day. Now, you would think with a game that has you running through older Sonic titles, they would have a fun story where the game pokes fun at itself.

Sadly, this is not the case and this really bothers me. You have jokes ripe for the making (Hell, you have a Sonic 06 level in this game! Make fun of it! Point out how no-one remembers it........nothing? So, we are just going to run though this fire-ruins city like nothing? Okay then :l) but they never capitalize on this. I enjoyed the story in Colors, so it was a step back of this story being so 'nothing'.

It doesn't detract from the gameplay at all, but just something that bugged me with a set-up as great as this.

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Classic Sonic is just like the good ol' days, running around, bouncing on badniks, and spin-dashing like its not out of style! Classic controls very well, as despite it not being close to the Genesis games with physics and core rolling ability, it still works great.

Classic has momentum when running and you feel his weight when jumping; feels good and makes his actions feel powerful. His level design is literally ripped right out of a great Classic Era Sonic.

Upper, Lower and Middle paths that reward the player for different means; upper paths make levels go by faster, lower gives you more platforming to complete and middle is a nice middle-ground between the two. Its great seeing that Sonic Team CAN make a 2D Sonic game, as for a very long time, it was only Dimps making them (though Sonic Team over-saw production of the titles).

I really enjoyed Classic Sonic here and I am hopeful that Sonic Team tries making a Classic Sonic game in the future. Generations shows it CAN work, so hopefully they do something with it in the future :).

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Modern Sonic is what you expect after Sonic Unleashed and Colors; fast 3D platforming with you going into 2D every now and then.

What makes Generations so unique is that they finally 'get' Modern Sonic. His controls feel great here and the best this style of Sonic has ever felt. Sonic moves at the forward direction of the analog stick but at every angle, the controls have multiple actions mapped to different buttons and Modern's physics are great here.

In addition to some smart fixes to issues in other 3D Sonic's (drifting is a lot more like a power slide in a Kart Racer now compared to how lose it was in Unleashed when boosting), you also have level design that understands how Sonic should work in 3D.

Sonic Adventure and Sonic Heroes came close to this, with levels that were either using the physics engine to great use or level designs that were built similarly to how the Genesis games worked. But Generations finally gets that balance of Speed and Platforming in 3D Sonic and its amazing to play.

Sky Sanctuary Modern and Seaside Hill Modern all have large open places to platform but also have many paths to take and some great set pieces sprinked about. Seaside Hill Modern is a massive level, with the middle section of the stage having two completely unique layouts depending on when you go through a loop; you either have a small go-kart section or platform over a sea of moving turtles.

These two levels are some of the best 3D Zones in the Sonic franchise honestly and are a template for future games using the Modern Formula.

Overall, Modern Sonic feels great to play as and his levels are really damn fun :).

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So, what's with the 3DS version? I mean, its 3D like the console game......right? Nope, its Sonic Rush 4, but not as good as that sounds. Okay, what I mean, is that Generations 3DS is a game that clearly was rushed out the door to have SOMETHING for Nintendo fans after plans changed with Colors becoming its own thing.

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The zone design is a bit lazy, with Classic Sonic outright ripping level designs from the original zones (Green Hill, Casino Night, Mushroom Hill) & giving him a homing attack that negates capturing the Genesis physics engine better then the console version. Modern's levels are literally Sonic Rush gameplay wise but with out the trick system and levels designed as if you are drawing a line and have odd things here and there to make things different.

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Story is the same as the console version, just without Sonic's friends being in the game and Classic Sonic learning Modern's moves as the game progresses (learns homing attack after completing the Big Arm Fight, learns Sonic Boost during the final cut-scene).

You also have special stages modeled after the ones from Sonic Heroes but this time with better control. The boss and stage selection is completely different too, but will get to that in a bit. Overall, the 3DS version of Generations is a weak game but not a bad one. Just......'meh' and that bites, it celebrating the handheld side of the series would of rocked.

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Okay, now with the gameplay covered, lets talk about the zones! This is an anniversary game and they use it as an excuse to ditch new level ideas and instead completely re-building older zones from scratch on new hardware on the PS3/360/PC & 3DS.

Lets talk about the HD version first, as it has the following zones and bosses:

Classic Era - Green Hill, Chemical Plant, Casino Night (Pinball DLC), Sky Sanctuary, Stardust Speedway (Metal Sonic Fight), Death Egg (Sonic 2 Final Boss)

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Dreamcast Era - Speed Highway, City Escape, Final Rush (Shadow Fight), Seaside Hill, Station Square (Perfect Chaos Fight)

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Modern Era - Crisis City, Rooftop Run, Planet Wisp, Eggmanland (Egg Dragoon Fight)

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The following are good choices for levels as Sonic Team goes above and beyond to make each level fun and creative. Chemical Plant Modern is a great example, as you see two pathways on the left & right:

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So, you would think they are just part of the background, right? Wrong! You can jump on them to find different pathways to take in the opening section of the act. City Escape is a great example too, with Classic Sonic using a skateboard instead of a snowboard with the GUN Truck being a consistent threat attacking the screen as you run through the level.

And, who cannot forget the infamous Crisis City Sign Post Troll ;)?

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Sonic Team spent a lot of time crafting each zone for both Sonic's and most levels are a blast to go through.

The 3DS versions have the same set-up too, with it having the following:
-Classic: Green Hill, Casino Night, Mushroom Hill, Launch Base (Big Arm Fight)
-Dreamcast: Emerald Coast, Radical Highway, The Ark (Biolizard Fight)
-Rush/Handheld: Water Palace, Tropical Resort

The stage line up isn't bad, its just that might of been more interesting. Mainly, going into Sonic's handheld history. Sonic has a LONG history on handhelds, as you know from this Retrospective ;).

Game Gear, Game Boy Advance, Nintendo DS and PlayStation Portable all got a number of Sonic titles and they ARE part of his history, so they should be covered. They are not outside of Sonic Rush and Colors DS. Not bad, but disappointing.

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The presentation.....man, this game can look amazing at times :').

The stages themselves are a sight to see in motion, with stable performance on consoles and a rock solid 60FPS on PC, the game looks beautiful. Each zone has a ton of detail and a lot of small touches. The flowers moving in Green Hill, the posters of Mighty/Ray/Fang in City Escape, the different Chao in Space signs across the Dreamcast and Modern Era's, the Egg Pawns relaxing in both Rooftop Run and Planet Wisp........nice to see all this fan service here.

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We also got one of the series best soundtracks, and while almost all of it is remixes, they are damn fine remixes! They cover every era of Sonic and its nice seeing Sonic Team honor its history like this.

Green Hill Classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxaT6WDTkgg&index=2&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66
Green Hill Modern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAFiSr7iSEc&index=3&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66
Chemical Plant Classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UZecQmQC4E&index=4&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66
Chemical Plant Modern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDunSQ5qJac&index=5&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66
Casino Night Modern/Pinball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6hkM04HY8M&index=55&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66
Door into Summer (Knuckles Chaotix): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDq9jVwSm9w&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66&index=53
Time Stop (Cyber Track X Chaos Control): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sITIQ3ESpg8&index=47&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66
Sky Sanctuary Classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=audIBjtM6A0&index=8&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66
City Escape Classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHm2b2jd1Ts
City Escape Modern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBihcsxGFLo&index=17&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66&nohtml5=False
Crisis City Classic:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g518Thd-yec&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66&index=24&nohtml5=False
Crisis City Modern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyWezywxxqU&index=25&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66&nohtml5=False
Rooftop Run Modern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnTyqig1R7I&index=29&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66&nohtml5=False
Rooftop Run Classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G1lq0UvxsY&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66&index=28
Perfect Chaos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gb_42k30YE&index=22&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66&nohtml5=False
Shadow Fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lEvPwllyos&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66&index=19
Stardust Speedway (JP): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9A6788MNjk&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66&index=6
Super Sonic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQZDQ0CVlww&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66&index=48
Egg Dragoon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8awNQl1vybs&index=32&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66
Sonic 3 File Select Remix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqLFjcyK0_c&index=54&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66
Emerald Beach Remix (Sonic Battle): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5dJ7uUhd5E&index=38&list=PL1A538347CCEAFE66
Big Arms (3DS Version): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwlC89-X-oc&nohtml5=False
Supporting Me - Biolizard (3DS Version): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHIvYCMzyFQ&nohtml5=False

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Sonic Generations is one of my favorite Sonic games of all time and it should be clear why. They do such a great job touching what we love about the series across every era but still offering a fun game for non-Sonic fans.

This is a great anniversary game and one hell of a way to celebrate the Blue Blur's anniversary. It continues his string of strong releases starting with Colors in 2010 and ending for many with Sonic Lost World in 2013. Sonic was 'back' with Generations and it was Sonic Team going back, to move forward.

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And with that......the Sonic Retrospective concludes. I plan on covering Freedom Planet and Sonic's mobile ventures in the future, but this is it for major games. Thank you all for sticking around and lets hope for Sonic to have a great 25th Anniversary this year!
 
My second favorite Sonic game behind Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

It's just a perfect Sonic experience, and the prime example that Sega can actually still make Genesis quality Sonic games if they really want to dedicate the resources to do so.

I had nostalgia overload the entire time I played the game.
 

RK128

Member
My second favorite Sonic game behind Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

It's just a perfect Sonic experience, and the prime example that Sega can actually still make Genesis quality Sonic games if they really want to dedicate the resources to do so.

I had nostalgia overload the entire time I played the game.

I love Generations a lot and it really is one of the strongest games in the series :).

Edit: The Thread title was originally supposed to be "Happy Birthday Sonic!" but I posted the thread before I finished typing the title X(. I asked a moderator to change it though, so I hope it goes into effect soon :).
 

Tuck

Member
This is 3D Sonic at its finest. Generations has amazing level design. The 3D levels have so many different paths and ways to shave off seconds from your time.

People always say its just "Boost to win." But if you play that way, you're doing it wrong. You may finish the level, but you'll have a shit time. Actually becoming good at the levels takes skill (and some memorization).

Desperately want more of this type of 3D Sonic.

EDIT: Planest Wisp was garbage though.
 

WillyFive

Member
My second favorite Sonic game behind Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

It's just a perfect Sonic experience, and the prime example that Sega can actually still make Genesis quality Sonic games if they really want to dedicate the resources to do so.

I had nostalgia overload the entire time I played the game.

Pretty much this.

Also, to everyone; make sure to play this on PC, the console versions do not give this game justice (input lag and sub 30 fps and all of that).

Which makes Sonic Boom so much more baffling. Even Sonic Lost World felt like a misstep, while not as bad as Sonic Boom, coming after Sonic Generations, it wasn't that great.

Boom was just a licensed game farmed out to another studio to promote their new Sonic TV show, but yeah Lost World was just a big misstep by boneheaded executives.
 
Which makes Sonic Boom so much more baffling. Even Sonic Lost World felt like a misstep, while not as bad as Sonic Boom, coming after Sonic Generations, it wasn't that great.

Lost World felt like a misstep to me as well. Maybe Generations didn't sell well enough for Sega to make another one like it.There's enough old sonic zones that I think they could've made a few sequels to Generations if they really wanted to :)
 

zeromcd73

Member
Sonic Generations was the first new Sonic game I had played since Sonic Rush/Shadow the Hedgehog. I had a lot of fun with the game, but never beat the final boss since the fight was so incredibly boring and dull.

Really looking forward to Sonic's 30th anniversary title and hope they can deliver a real quality product.
 

theclaw135

Banned
Release the Casino Night pinball on XBL and PSN in the USA, and I'd be a lot happier.
GameStop pre-order exclusivity benefits no one 5 years later.
 
Minor point, I always thought it was weird that Classic Sonic was mute while Classic Robotnik and Tails were able to speak.

Like, I don't mind Classic Sonic not speaking, it's a funny nod to how the original games didn't have voice acting, but then they went back on that by giving the other retro characters voices. Weird.
 

RK128

Member
Lost World felt like a misstep to me as well. Maybe Generations didn't sell well enough for Sega to make another one like it.There's enough old sonic zones that I think they could've made a few sequels to Generations if they really wanted to :)

Its implied that the zones in Generations are using assets from prior Sonic games.

Chemical Planet? Using parts of Eggmanland for the Modern Level.

The Entire Modern Era? Made up of parts/assets from 06, Unleashed and Colors.

I would imagine they spent a lot of money making Generations and while it ended up being a success, they wanted to make Sonic 'cheaper' cost wise. Thus, Lost World was made with a smaller budget and a more simpler art direction (though a great one; Lost World is a great looking game).
 

iavi

Member
Iirc, Generations was wildly expensive to make, hence why we didn't get dlc.

Sonic Generations is one of, if not the best Sonic ever made. Such a quality product
 
Not all the stages in Sonic Generations were exceptional, but the stages that were exceptional were the best stages in Sonic history for speedrunning, and Sonic Generations proved that speedrunning is when the series is at its best.

Perfect three-layer design on the stages that got it right (four layer if you count 'glitch-pathing'):

1) Shortcut Path: Finding and executing the shortcuts that are difficult to pull off while keeping momentum
2) Standard Path: Running through the intended critical path of the level without making mistakes
3) Platform Path: Having made a mistake or having taken a broadcasted-as-being-worse route that involves extraneous platforming that's designed to punish momentum but keep the player pushing forward.

It's brilliant level design that rewards playing smart and playing to avoid mistakes.

Generations, I would say, is the best ever Sonic because of this level design philosophy, and there needs to be more Sonic games like it.
 
Its implied that the zones in Generations are using assets from prior Sonic games.

Chemical Planet? Using parts of Eggmanland for the Modern Level.

The Entire Modern Era? Made up of parts/assets from 06, Unleashed and Colors.

I would imagine they spent a lot of money making Generations and while it ended up being a success, they wanted to make Sonic 'cheaper' cost wise. Thus, Lost World was made with a smaller budget and a more simpler art direction (though a great one; Lost World is a great looking game).

My favorite part of Lost World was that framerate...it was soooo nice, and impressive on the Wii U to be running as smooth as it did, and looking so vibrant. Just wish it was more fun to play.
 

Tuck

Member
Not all the stages in Sonic Generations were exceptional, but the stages that were exceptional were the best stages in Sonic history for speedrunning, and Sonic Generations proved that speedrunning is when the series is at its best.

Perfect three-layer design on the stages that got it right (four layer if you count 'glitch-pathing'):

1) Shortcut Path: Finding and executing the shortcuts that are difficult to pull off while keeping momentum
2) Standard Path: Running through the intended critical path of the level without making mistakes
3) Platform Path: Having made a mistake or having taken a broadcasted-as-being-worse route that involves extraneous platforming that's designed to punish momentum but keep the player pushing forward.

It's brilliant level design that rewards playing smart and playing to avoid mistakes.

Generations, I would say, is the best ever Sonic because of this level design philosophy, and there needs to be more Sonic games like it.

Some of the glitch paths were awesome to see in speed runs.

Don't think I ever managed to pull them off but I did try a few. There were a few of them in Unleashed too.
 
This game was incredible. Definitely in my top 3 (S3&K and Colours being the other).

I only had one real gripe with the game, and that was the last level. I just remember having no idea what the hell was going on. Somehow managed to beat the game though.

Also, Sky Sanctuary was absolutely freaking gorgeous.
 
I find it really disappointing where the Sonic games went after this amazing game. I really thought this game marked a bright future for the Blue Hedgehog.
 

RK128

Member
I find it really disappointing where the Sonic games went after this amazing game. I really thought this game marked a bright future for the Blue Hedgehog.

If anything, it was Sonic Team saying 'We got KNOW how to make this gameplay sing' and made a game that shows it. Then, they said "Lets try something new and fresh" to space themselves from Sonic for a bit.

I honestly think that Lost World was intended to be a New IP at some point but was retro-fitted into a Sonic game mid-development.
 

Luigi87

Member
This game.
This friggin game.

This game made me believe Sonic games could be amazing again.

The 2D (Classic) sections were great.
The 3D (Modern) sections I liked even more.

The boosting, dashing, everything... The stages were incredibly well designed.

This game is really good.
 

sn00zer

Member
After finishing it, i felt like the game was very avergae.

THAT SAID

This is one of the most insanely good looking games Ive ever played. It is a damn shame the Sonic Team art team is stuck making Sonic games.
 

RK128

Member
This game.
This friggin game.

This game made me believe Sonic games could be amazing again.

The 2D (Classic) sections were great.
The 3D (Modern) sections I liked even more.

The boosting, dashing, everything... The stages were incredibly well designed.

This game is really good.

Glad you loved the game :D!

It bought Sonic back to quality for many (if they skipped out on Colors due to now owning a Wii, as the quality came back with that game and SEGA All Stars Racing :)).
 

RK128

Member
After finishing it, i felt like the game was very avergae.

THAT SAID

This is one of the most insanely good looking games Ive ever played. It is a damn shame the Sonic Team art team is stuck making Sonic games.

As I covered in this Retrospective, Sonic Team's art extends outside of Sonic. Billy Hatcher, Ristar, NiGHTS, Burning Rangers and Samba De Amigo all have that great Sonic Team art :).

And that is not even counting games I didn't cover like Pyuo Pop and Phantasy Star!
 

sn00zer

Member
As I covered in this Retrospective, Sonic Team's art extends outside of Sonic. Billy Hatcher, Ristar, NiGHTS, Burning Rangers and Samba De Amigo all have that great Sonic Team art :).

And that is not even counting games I didn't cover like Pyuo Pop and Phantasy Star!

Gotta do something more recent man. All Stars Racing was wthe closest to emulating the Sonic Team style.
 

RK128

Member
Gotta do something more recent man. All Stars Racing was wthe closest to emulating the Sonic Team style.

And Sumo Digital made that game; but they made the Outrun series, so they know how to capture that iconic SEGA look.

I would love for Sonic Team to take a break with Sonic after this anniversary game, and move on to a new IP to play around with the new ideas they keep wanting to use.
 
Having the 3DS version being mostly scraps of console games really bum me out, having a set of courses based on the Genesis, Advance, and Rush+Colors trilogies would be the perfect set for me.

I only say the Genesis trilogy because of the SEGA Nomad existing.
 
This is Sonic's Best game since the original games. I loved playing as both Modern Sonic and Classic Sonic.There was a lot of love put in this game. I don't think I'd want a sequel to Generations but a spiritual successor to it for next-gen.
 

RK128

Member
Congrats on finishing your retrospectives!

Thank you :D!

Took quite a long while but it was worth it :). Had a lot of fun and feel like I became a bit of a better writer as I was making the threads. Glad I decided to make this retrospective and I'm so happy many of you guys loved and enjoyed the work I produced :').

Have a great night everyone and thank you for reading my retrospectives!

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Crayolan

Member
Sonic Generations was the first Sonic game in a long time I thought was genuinely amazing and is one of the best Sonic games ever. The level designs are super solid, both Sonics feel great to control, the bosses are the best they've been in a long time (except for Shadow), the throwbacks are spot on, and the music remixes are fantastic.

And as someone who played SA2 as their first Sonic, I thought City Escape modern was an especially impressive homage to the original. Getting the original singer back to redo the song was crazy enough for me, but recreating the boarding, the the truck chase, and even making the main part of the level more open to give it a Sonic Adventure style feeling really wowed me. My favorite level for sure.

I just hope this year's anniversary game can be on the same level as Generations.
 

DonMigs85

Member
Oh, and one thing that bugs me is that the PC version gets inexplicable slowdown and high CPU usage in certain areas like Chemical Plant Zone. Wonder why
 

RK128

Member
Sonic Generations was the first Sonic game in a long time I thought was genuinely amazing and is one of the best Sonic games ever. The level designs are super solid, both Sonics feel great to control, the bosses are the best they've been in a long time (except for Shadow), the throwbacks are spot on, and the music remixes are fantastic.

And as someone who played SA2 as their first Sonic, I thought City Escape modern was an especially impressive homage to the original. Getting the original singer back to redo the song was crazy enough for me, but recreating the boarding, the the truck chase, and even making the main part of the level more open to give it a Sonic Adventure style feeling really wowed me. My favorite level for sure.

It is one of my favorites of the Modern Sonic levels too :D!

The boarding feels so great to control and the GUN Truck is amazing XD! The thing has BUZZ SAWS, slams through tons of buildings and then uses a jet pack to drive on the SIDE of a building O_O!

That driver really wants to take Sonic out :').

Thanks. Remember, it's could've or could have

Will keep that in mind for the future, so thank you for the advice man :D!
 
Excellent work OP. I've thoroughly enjoyed these retrospective threads, Sonic Generations is my favourite Sonic game in forever.
I've been a Sonic fan since the Master System days (memories of playing Sonic 2 to completion with my mum on Xmas day. Best Xmas ever!) and later the Mega Drive too.

Sonic Generations brought great gameplay and stunning visuals to the table but I do wish the story had been more fun and that the last level wasn't such a damp squib.
 

Ad0ve

Banned
So are we waiting for E3 for the new anniversary game or is there any other possible date when it could be revealled?
 
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