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Sony announces HMZ-T2 3D Personal Viewer
- Thread starter Pachimari
- Start date
Plus seeing the prices the first was going for, Sony perhaps figured they priced a little low on it
Couldnt someone easily make some video software for oculus that zooms it out slightly and puts a black boarder around it so you can see fine?
I'm not the most read on the subject, but if you take a 640x800 display (or whatever the rift is per eye) and then eliminate a lot of that resolution through black bars, you'd be left with something really low-res. You'd still have to warp the video to fit the optics anyway (I think).
They realized that they're selling a luxury item to people with disposable income, and not something that will inevitably wind up a mass market device. That being the case, and with them selling through their stock pretty quickly, a higher price was probably warranted.
phosphor112
Banned
Clear mode? Low response specifically for gaming? I hope it's near non-existent.
I don't think these two products are really comparable. The HMZ is a wearable multi-purpose display. The Oculus requires specific software to be useful and cannot be used for normal tasks.
Also, while the Oculus has a wide FOV and head tracking for VR, the HMZ features two screens with a higher resolution per eye using OLED tech. The Oculus uses an old LCD for its display so the black levels and motion resolution are poor in comparison.
Definitely not. If you were to create a proper 16:9 (or comparable) image within the low resolution of the Oculus you'd end up with something more like 320x400 per eye (at best). It would be obscenely low resolution (lower than DVD resolution).
I think the Oculus is fucking cool as hell, but it is aimed very specifically at VR applications and isn't a general purpose display.
I use mine every day. I find it hard to go back to playing games on a monitor or tv since games no longer seem immersive that way. The comfort and focus are an issue though, to get it usable I had to remove the front padding and wear a beanie whilst playing.
AFAIK the panels are capable of extremely fast response. If they turn off all processing, there's no reason why it couldn't be super fast. Whether or not they'll do that is another story (they didn't on the HMZ-T1 I guess). It sounds like that mode is specifically designed for that, so there is reason to be hopeful.
Sure, and then you're left with 640x480 at best on a display that is much worse than the OLEDs in this.
(Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge proponent of Oculus, but it's not a good device for movie viewing)
I'm confident Sony will have a software update for my original HMZ so it can use this "Clear" mode setting.
They definitely are, but it must have been designed by crash test dummies, it's seriously heavy after a while, and genuinely uncomfortable after about 5 or so minutes.
But when it works, it's just so, so awesome. There's a post by a guy with the hmz in the OT Skyrim thread, he talked about just spending ages looking at rounds of cheese, I did the same, but with cobwebs and dust. When it works, it's just eyegasms all the way, until your neck begins to ache.
Best of breed of the personal media viewer devices.
Personal media viewer devices are as it turns out, pretty fucking useless devices.
Like I said in the other thread - in the context of a world where the Oculus Rift exists - the idea of strapping a HMD to your head for a personal cinema experience seems quaint.
Useful to some people depending on their circumstances.
But given how little tech you need to change this from personal media viewer to VR device - and how many niggling issues that would resolve*...
*specifically, if it had a function that allowed the screen to stay 'fixed' while you moved your head around - it would stop a lot of physical drift and nausea issues with its usage.
it's a ridiculous device that shows that Sony continues to lack decent foresight and clarity in what they do.
The fact that this is simply an outgrowth of experimentation with miniature OLED tech and lenses is clearer now then ever.
So they've left the zeitgeist of the VR to Oculus. Just as well really - those guys are passionate and enthusiastic and know what they're doing. Sony... who the fuck knows what they're thinking half the time.
Personal media viewer devices are as it turns out, pretty fucking useless devices.
Like I said in the other thread - in the context of a world where the Oculus Rift exists - the idea of strapping a HMD to your head for a personal cinema experience seems quaint.
Useful to some people depending on their circumstances.
But given how little tech you need to change this from personal media viewer to VR device - and how many niggling issues that would resolve*...
*specifically, if it had a function that allowed the screen to stay 'fixed' while you moved your head around - it would stop a lot of physical drift and nausea issues with its usage.
it's a ridiculous device that shows that Sony continues to lack decent foresight and clarity in what they do.
The fact that this is simply an outgrowth of experimentation with miniature OLED tech and lenses is clearer now then ever.
So they've left the zeitgeist of the VR to Oculus. Just as well really - those guys are passionate and enthusiastic and know what they're doing. Sony... who the fuck knows what they're thinking half the time.
I think once the consumer version (with much higher resolution - with Palmer teasing that they'd go to 4k screens if they were available in time) is released, it'll become a very interesting media device in its own right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9pIZZi0JRks
have a look at that - given that traditional media is implicitly designed for screens that are optimally around a 35 degree FOV - it would be awkward to fill a full 110 degree FOV with media.
But instead of black - how about a virtual environment like in that short video clip? Virtual theatre space. Virtual movie theatre on a beach, the moon, on top of the empire state building. Movie watching in Skyrim, or Fallout.
The possibilities are endless and I think it would a pretty compelling experience over even normal TV watching.
Delusibeta
Banned
If the thousand Euros pricepoint is accurate: BWAHAHAHA. When the Oculus Rift is in development and will probably retail for about $500, I can see that sweeping what market there is for this sort of device.
Too early to call.
Focus on fixing the comfort level, latency, 3D content and the price first.
Wider FoV, head tracking, 3D video camera integration, 3D audio, and other special effects, etc. can be added later.
They can also go Google Glasses instead of or in addition to a VR approach.
I don't think you know what you're talking about man.
Based off what they're aiming for in the consumer device, it's really not too early to say: "It'll be an interesting media device" in its own right.
Because it will be. I won't say that it'll become any sort of defacto standard in the near future - because it really won't.
But it'll provide a compelling point of differentiation over any existing media viewing device through the possibility of using a virtual viewing space (although that function early on would really only be made available by modders).
You can't just tack on the rest of those functions and turn a HMD into a VR device - you need to create a cohesive device with at minimum a large field of view and head tracking to set the standards and the framework for VR software development.
Like I said in the other thread - there's no specialized content to develop for a HMD if the only function it has is outputting video. And Google glasses while highly interesting in its own right has much less to do with this discussion than even mobile phones (because mobile phone screens serve as the basis for the cheap display panels on the Rift).
3D HMD needs good 3D content. We are not there yet.
Virtual reality and augmented reality are just buzzwords and tech directions. There is no reason why they can't be used together in the future.
Look... I'm not going to argue with you, because the way you phrase ideas is... confusing.
"Are just buzzwords and tech directions"?
They're kinda mutually exclusive terms. And what is 'they' when you say they can't be used together in future?
AR and VR? Of course - AR is a superset technology of VR. You need full functioning VR for full functioning AR.
And 3D HMD content is either VR content that is specifically developed for a VR HMD (per the Oculus Rift) - or it is generic stereoscopic 3D content that is developed for everything else.
While we could get into a whole other discussion about the latter topic... I'd rather not - other than to say, we're already heading in that direction, and stereoscopy isn't that compelling.
Stereoscopic 3D tech hasn't taken off because it needs more work, regardless of whether it's used in a VR, AR or a standard display. ^_^
VR and AR occupy different points in the reality-virtual continuum. But you can use them together in the same product. You don't really need one for the other. It depends on the application.
VR and AR occupy different points in the reality-virtual continuum. But you can use them together in the same product. You don't really need one for the other. It depends on the application.
Messypandas
Member
is this gonna be available somewhere I can actually buy it this time?
Son' this is a .3 inch display. No one can do 4k at that size yet.
The HMZ-T1 has been available on Amazon for a while, if you're in the US. I see no reason why the T2 won't be as well, once the initial rush is over.
Stereoscopic 3D (as presented in an HMD) is fine. Each eye gets its own picture, eliminating cross-talk. It's a worthwhile 3D experience for both movies and games. Having said that, the experience isn't that different from watching a TV, if you find one with little to no crosstalk. That's where a device like the Rift comes in, with a much bigger FOV and a far more (according to hands on demos) immersive (and gaming oriented) experience.
They'd miss out on content that wasn't happening right in the middle of the FOV. Unless it's a nature program or something and watching the main characters isn't important, it's not really going to work.
Edit: I should add that the HMZ-T1 is nowhere close to filling the normal human FOV. So I guess the answer is "it would be great, up to a point".
fak
The upside is, this means they could squeeze greater than retinal capacity pixel resolution onto a 4-6" screen. Perfect for the Rift style distorted optics solution.
At least we know the potential for the tech is there once the Rift has proven the market.
Zaptruder, I think you're being very harsh on Sony. Occulus rift looks amazing, but it's a kickstarter that hasn't delivered anything yet, and a consumer version is at least a year away. It's very early (and yes, very exciting) days. Sony in the meantime has released an amazing HMD with great screens but significant comfort issues which is a great alternative to a front projector especially if you don't have a dedicated light controlled room to get the best out of a PJ. And it's great for current games, none of which support VR yet.
Yes it would be neat for Sony to blaze a trail with VR support, I think it'd be mpmuch more interesting than what they are doing with move for instance. But it's not fair to criticise this product for not being a different product. With head tracking this doesn't have the FoV you need. If it had the FoV it wouldn't have the resolution you need. This is a great solution in the meantime.
I wish Sony departments talked a bit more. I would be almost trivial for the playstation guys to come up with a nice tracking add-on for this, based on move or sixaxis, and fund patches to a few of their big franchises.
Yes it would be neat for Sony to blaze a trail with VR support, I think it'd be mpmuch more interesting than what they are doing with move for instance. But it's not fair to criticise this product for not being a different product. With head tracking this doesn't have the FoV you need. If it had the FoV it wouldn't have the resolution you need. This is a great solution in the meantime.
I wish Sony departments talked a bit more. I would be almost trivial for the playstation guys to come up with a nice tracking add-on for this, based on move or sixaxis, and fund patches to a few of their big franchises.
jetsetfluken
Member
Oppo
Member
That's not true at all. AR pixel-tracking does not require any sort of virtual/3D internal space. You can do it all optically. Perspective tracking is optional.
Anyways I don't know why you are so down on this. It seems to me that even "mere media playback" has a place; this is the visual equivalent of headphones. I think a bigger barrier is the idea of wearing them in public/on a plane, etc. Lot of people won't want to do that. They need a headset that isn't so obtrusive (i.e. "pick this guy's pockets").
But until they have multi-angle 3D worked out on flatscreens, if you wanted to game that way, or not disturb SOs/family with a movie... you could do a lot worse.
PuppetMaster
Member
Ok I am buying this one! I skipped out of the first version because I felt it was too big and clunky when I tried one at a store. But 20% lighter and I am in!
I hope the weight makes a difference so that it doesn't feel like you were punched in the face by a heavy fisted gorilla after wearing it 20 minutes, like the first one does.
Mine sits on a shelf... I'm afraid to put it on after the face scrunching brutality I felt after watching Hugo.
Mine sits on a shelf... I'm afraid to put it on after the face scrunching brutality I felt after watching Hugo.
SlaughterX
Banned
I shall make this my masturbation helmet...
SniperHunter
Banned
this technology can't be good for the eyes right?
Ardenyal
Member
The optics make it less stressful on the eyes than staring at a monitor.
I like how this is image is hosted by "tripod". That is the joke, right?
It requires wall power (and a converter box) anyway, so no one is going to be using this in public.
Harsh - but realistic.
I just can't see a room for this technology once VR takes off - because VR is a superset of this technology and functionality. It's great that with the HMZ-T1, Sony proved that you can actually get high quality head mounted tech at a reasonable consumer price. That's the factor that set the world abuzz last year.
With this iteration, the world has moved on. If the rift didn't exist - this might be a promising iteration hinting at bigger better things. But as a product unto itself, without the golden promise of VR... it's of extremely limited appeal. Most of us here have used the T1 - we can see very clearly that this is a slight iteration on that at best (especially after learning that the display is 720p again, not the 1080p that people were hoping it'd be).
Of course if you include head tracking there's an issue of content development - but with such promising synergies in the Sony family (talk to Polyphony, get them to include head tracking support for the product in GT5 as a patch) - it's just a massively obvious opportunity that they're forgoing here - and that kind of behaviour just doesn't bode well for the company.
Additionally, like I've expressed head tracking can be used to alleviate usability problems with the function of a head mounted display - namely that you can't look away from the screen.
Also, you don't need a large field of view to be coupled to head tracking - although it obviously helps especially if you're doing full blown VR (as opposed to HMD + head tracking).
But, yes... the fiefdoms of Sony continue to plague the company.
Nerfgun said:
Technically AR and VR aren't the same thing. You can get AR on your phone now after all. As such you don't even need a head mount for AR. But if we go that far, then we could say that existing games are already a form of VR (and they are - but not in the colloquial sense that we mean).
But interesting and useful AR and VR overlap significantly. The AR that we picture in our heads and is shown in sci-fi is like I say, a superset of VR. The virtual/internal space is the layer on which objects are distorted to and tracked to in the real world.
45 fov fail
Like comparing cat with a lion .... with the lion being the Oculus Rift. Don't hold me on word, now its dev only but the resolution and other things are going automatically up, the point is going to keep evolving and seriously .. not like a 2year sony revision which is a small update.
Every GAF demographic should understand this difference well.
Like comparing cat with a lion .... with the lion being the Oculus Rift. Don't hold me on word, now its dev only but the resolution and other things are going automatically up, the point is going to keep evolving and seriously .. not like a 2year sony revision which is a small update.
Every GAF demographic should understand this difference well.
It's certainly going to take years before a Rift is usable for the thing that the HMZ viewers are designed for (3D movies), but then again maybe it will take somewhat less time than breeding a lion to take the place of a cat.
With a decent resolution and some modders to provide a virtual cinema environment ala the vid I posted... I think the Rift will offer a better movie viewing experience than what the HMZ will be capable of.
Granted the image quality will be better on the HMZ - but the big factors against it is the whole screen mounted to your face that you can't look away from.
I'm saying this from first hand experience... the discomfort of the HMZ is not purely due to the physical size and weight (which I managed to mitigate to an extent with the use of counterbalance and comfort mods) - but because your brain just doesn't like seeing a screen that follows your head around.
SlaughterX
Banned
1. When will VR take off?
2. If 720p is disappointing how are Rift screens?
How can 720p OLED be disappointing if the future is 640x800 LCD? Double standards?
And IF the actual software comes, why couldn't Sony add extra head tracking hardware to the future versions?