yurinka
Member
If you believe teh VGLOLZ numbers then yes. But as for real known/public numbers, as I know Monster Hunter Portable 2ndG and MHP3rd are the best selling PSP games.
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Sony Announces Q2 Results
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
Did they say anywhere PS3 hardware units were down in the first quarter?
phranctoast
Member
My apologies for asking a question!!!!! Christ!!!!!
YOY means total year on year. So technically, if the PS3 sold more anytime during that year it would affect the YOY number, and not necessarily make it possible to figure out that quarters amount based off of that.
Ya I believe they did, I've seen it quoted a coupe of times, I'll try and find it.
No .. just no, when they talk YOY it equates to the same time period (quater) from last year ...
So when they said PS3 was down in Q1 2012 YOY, they meant it was down compared to Q1 2011
Reads to me like Units, especially as it specifically mentions Hardware is down. Also makes perfect sense both the PS2 and PS3 would be down, not as if PS3 has been up anywhere in the world at any point this year.
It's not like they havn't combined the two in a sentance dozen's of times before ...
zomgbbqftw
Banned
The statement is made on revenue terms, so it is unlikely they are talking about units.
phranctoast
Member
Yeah. It's not too clear at all as it also mentions software.
Last year they sold paltry numbers too, US and the west in general do not make up PS2 numbers and havn't for a long time now.
Hellsing321
Member
Maybe one or two more revisions and they'll get the right forecast for Vita!
phranctoast
Member
It would be nice if they just gave a total shipped. I think it's gotta be in the 68-69M area by now.
One page ago you were a real stickler for the facts, and now you're the one making assumptions. What happened?
AranhaHunter
Banned
For the first time in a while, the big loser for the first half is NOT the Home and Entertainment segment, i.e. the TV business. The big loser is one of Kaz's three pillars, the Mobile Product and Communication segment, i.e. the smartphone, tablet, computer business.
H&E = -¥25.8B (~$322M)
MP&C = -¥51.2B (~$639.1M)
H&E = -¥25.8B (~$322M)
MP&C = -¥51.2B (~$639.1M)
It's as much an assumption as the people you're arguing with made in the other direction. Not to mention the fact you're using sell through numbers from a single quarter to try to back into shipped numbers for that same quarter, which is a fool's errand.
I think we all need to come to terms with the fact that Sony's bullshit decision to obfuscate their numbers has been a great success. Hopefully the analysts or large investors will call them on this bullshit, because gaming is supposed to be one of the pillars of their business, and they aren't giving investors enough data to evaluate that business. It's one thing when MS does it, because gaming is a sideshow there anyway, but Sony shouldn't be allowed to get away with this.
Edit: I also think it's fair to say that all of these machinations are an indication of gaming problems. Healthy companies don't generally try to hide their good results.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
If you look at the TV business as a separate entity it only lost ¥10bn:
"In Televisions, sales decreased 31.5% year-on-year to 146.7 billion yen (1,881 million U.S. dollars) and operating loss* decreased 30.5 billion yen year-on-year to 10.2 billion yen (130 million U.S. dollars)."
Again, in the detail, the smartphone unit only lost ¥10bn as well:
"The pro forma segment operating loss had Sony Mobile been fully consolidated in the same quarter of the previous fiscal year would have been approximately 10.0 billion yen. The increase in the loss over the previous fiscal year on a pro forma basis was primarily due to the impact of the lower sales of PCs."
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/12q2_sony.pdf
Both divisions are expected to be profitable or at least break even in 2013/4. Sony Mobile is now the third largest player in smartphones, behind Samsung and Apple. IDC got the wrong figures, Sony shipped 8.8m smartphones in the quarter, beating HTC, RIM, Moto and ZTE all of whom sold 7.5-7.8m.
Pictures is profitable. Earnings release: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/12q2_sony.pdf
phranctoast
Member
If this is followed literally, it means the PS2 at least sold 1.2M units to match last years same quarter, and the trend seems to show the exact opposite.
Syphon Filter
Member
dam has the ps3 been selling that bad?the gap grew to nearly 7 million compared to 360 now.
phranctoast
Member
Only if you look at the last total numbers released by Sony which happened at the end of March 2012.
Right now, they're within 2M of each other and likely a lot less.
source?
AranhaHunter
Banned
Could be better if they had a presence in the US. Their main phone, the Xperia TL, is releasing exclusively on AT&T. Compare that to the Galaxy or the iphone that are available on Sprint, Verizon, ATT, T-Mobile, Mobile PCS, etc
I honestly have no idea why they don't have a better deal with US carriers and subsidize their phones here.
MHP2G and MHP3 have sold in excess of 4 million copies worldwide. Those numbers can be easily verified.
We don't have up to date worldwide sales for either LCS or VCS. They may have sold more than MH, but we simply don't know.
eighty(one)
Member
Is there a need? It is common knowledge that Vita has been hovering around the 2 million mark worldwide. The sales have yet to ignite and they may never do so. It is good to remember that as of feb/march 2013, 3DS will have been in the market for 2 full years (east and western). In December, Vita will hit its first anniversary for the East, February 2013 for the west. The Vita has yet to have its first holiday season in the west, so the system could pull respectable numbers, or it might not....
There seems to be no magic bullet for Sony. It does seem that anyone who owns a Vita (myself included), really admires the entire hardware package. It's a phenomenal system and I'm not going to write it off, not yet, anyway. My theory is Sony is targeting the west: biggest gaming market gains this gen, as well as lost cause to Nintendo in JP. Over here, I believe a 4GB bundle at $199 would do wonders....
Oh well :0/
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Obviously so.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Sony (and Nokia) are not equipped to deal with US carriers, they just don't know how to deal with that kind of market where each carrier requires its own hardware SKU rather than one phone for all markets and carriers (like Europe).
Okay so yurinka is just talking bull, like i thought.
AranhaHunter
Banned
They need to make an effort if they want to get in the biggest market in the world and if they want mobile to become one of their 3 pillars that drives them forward. On top of that, Kaz has lived a long time in the US, you think he would know that and try to get . Have they mentioned anything regarding getting on extra carriers in the US? I don't know if they want to be tied to AT&T for a long time.
So when exactly was the last good Sony earnings release? Not one where they met or exceeded shitty expectations, or one where you think maybe they've stopped the bleeding and begun a turnaround, but a quarter where you look at the numbers and think "This company has its shit together. It is really firing on all cylinders."
It has to have been over 10 years ago, right? What a waste.
It has to have been over 10 years ago, right? What a waste.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
timetokill
Banned
Look up "sunk costs."
The money they've spent is gone. It's all about where to spend NOW. They can either continue spending on a product with a poor (or negative) return, or they can move their money to more profitable ventures.
Tallshortman
Member
Take2 announced that gta lcs shipped 8 million back in 2008.
Of course it was ps2 and psp ( likely majority of which for psp).
As I wrote to counter what a gaffer said about gta inability to sell on handheld, gta games performance on psp disprove him.
Opus Angelorum
Member
You don't even have to be a weatherman to give a more accurate forecast, bleak.
CaptainABAB
Member
I see that they missed their projections again, lowering it now to 10 million portable systems for the year ending March 31, 2013.
When will they learn to release realistic projections that they have a shoot of hitting and/or exceeding? Wouldn't it be better to promise little and deliver vs. constantly having to revise downwards?
When will they learn to release realistic projections that they have a shoot of hitting and/or exceeding? Wouldn't it be better to promise little and deliver vs. constantly having to revise downwards?
Well, they haven't stayed big. Since 2000 Sony's market cap has gone from $120B to $12B. Stringer was brought on in 2005 because Sony was floundering. And then under Stringer Sony lost 60% of its value. And their last annual profit was (I think) FY2007, when the Game division was busy losing $2B in a year.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Is China not the biggest phone market in the world ?
They should try and get into that but i don't know if that possible or how things work over there .
The same for India .
OldJadedGamer
Banned
If it was combined sales of the PS2 and PSP there is no way to prove the PSP version is the best selling game of all time on the system then. Unless you have another more accurate source to back up the claim.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
PS3 has been reliably selling 75+% of combined ps2/ps3 sales over the past year (over 85% during the holidays last year), and obviously going forward the ps3 will only increase that share as the ps2 slowly dies off. So using 75% as a minimum baseline, we get the following picture:
63.9 + .75*2.8 +.75*3.5 = ~68.6 million units sold globally after this quarter at a minimum.
Compare that to 360's 70 million and ps3 is now only trailing by 1.4 million units max.
It's pretty safe to say at this point that by the end of Sony's fiscal year the PS3 will be in second place globally, certainly before the next consoles come out.
63.9 + .75*2.8 +.75*3.5 = ~68.6 million units sold globally after this quarter at a minimum.
Compare that to 360's 70 million and ps3 is now only trailing by 1.4 million units max.
It's pretty safe to say at this point that by the end of Sony's fiscal year the PS3 will be in second place globally, certainly before the next consoles come out.
pharmboy044
Member
Any info regarding how much revenue Sony made from PSN?
Canis lupus
Member
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Next consoles start launching in a few weeks. You really think the PS3 will continue to sell once the WiiU hits Japan with an HD Mario brothers on shelves and Dragon Quest in the box? You think they will keep their same sales as MS drops the price of the 360 (they haven't dropped in over 4 years). Sony is about 14 million behind in the US and Japan was the only thing keeping them up with 360 numbers. If the WiiU eats their lunch in Japan which odds are good it will then those sales will drop even more.
Now that Sony has hid the PS3 numbers behind the PS2, there is no way we can know at all if or when Sony ever does take second place. Unless they specifically announced independent PS3 numbers, it will always be a mystery and nothing will ever be able to be proven if they keep hiding the numbers the way they are now. As long as they combine numbers, it will be pure speculation.
Conflict NZ
Member
What's impressive about Microsoft profiting is that Xbox is in a division that is pretty much designed to lose money, which is the division that we got results for. That division includes such famous money losers as Zune and Windows Phone as well as Skype and some experimental marketing purchases. The Xbox is able to single handedly prop up all those shitty ventures and still have the Entertainment and Devices division turn a profit.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I think Sony will continue to lead Microsoft from here on out globally. The kinect effect has greatly attenuated and will basically be a non factor this holiday.
PS3 has room to drop on price just as the 360 does, I don't consider price moves at this point to provide any huge movement of hardware sales and will mostly be used to stave off significant drops year over year, in other words maintain rather than grow.
Sony dominates emerging markets, and as we have seen with both ps1 and ps2, sales in those regions tend to pick up slack as interest wanes in developed markets. This global presence will better allow Sony to maintain sales and I suspect microsoft will have a much larger drop off moving forward.
For the holiday quarter I see 360 selling at best on par with PS3, but wouldn't be surprised if Sony did better to the tune of .5-1 million units, with Sony adding another 1 million for Q4. These gains would enable them to move into second place by the end of March.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
It really isn't safe to say that since MS traditionally ships more in Q4. The gap will widen next quarter.