Support NeoGAF

[dalyr95]

Just the unfair amount of faith the media has towards the PS3.
The PS3 has been given so much love by the media since its release for no particular reason, luckily the audience are not stupid enough to buy into it.

Seems you were born yesterday, when the PS3 launched the press were 24/7 saying its doomed!! Every second day on GAF they was another doom and gloom thread concerning the PS3

 

[Dabanton]

Seems you were born yesterday, when the PS3 launched the press were 24/7 saying its doomed!! Every second day on GAF they was another doom and gloom thread concerning the PS3

Seems like you were born yesterday, the PS3 was and is still given a load of allowances by the games press.

Remember a lot of them had told us over and over how the PS3 would come out and dominate the other two consoles.

 

[JudgeN]

I have a DS. All the games Atlus and SE produce that I care about are on it or are coming to it. The point isn't that these consoles are 100% mitigated by their closer proximity to PC gaming - it's just that their price points were (and are, in the PS3's case) too high based on the amount of value that isn't mitigated by it. I'm interested in what seems to amount to about 20% of what the PS3 currently offers - the other 80% of its features and content would be lost entirely on me, so $400 (let alone $599) is out of the question.

Slow down buddy I'm not here to sell you a PS3, I'm just saying its silly to think that having a gaming PC makes console gaming obsolete. There is still a purpose for consoles and there is still a lot of exclusively between the 2, if you think they aren't worth the money that's kool. Either way as time goes on the line is going to continue to blur, its just then natural progression of technology. Hell even the Wii is pretty much a PC when you really get down to it and the next generation of consoles will all be like 360/PS3/whatever.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

Seems like you were born yesterday, the PS3 was and is still given a load of allowances by the games press.

Remember a lot of them had told us over and over how the PS3 would come out and dominate the other two consoles.

Truth. Hell Pachter still thinks it's going to all of a sudden take over the Wii...

Also that wacky graph showing PS3 sales exploding, etc. There were a fair number of detractors, but the general media has been overly kind to the PS3's situation.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Seems like you were born yesterday, the PS3 was and is still given a load of allowances by the games press.

Remember a lot of them had told us over and over how the PS3 would come out and dominate the other two consoles.

That EDGE cover comes to mind.

 

[jeremy1456]

Truth. Hell Pachter still thinks it's going to all of a sudden take over the Wii...

Also that wacky graph showing PS3 sales exploding, etc. There were a fair number of detractors, but the general media has been overly kind to the PS3's situation.

Especially when you compare it what the media was saying about the Gamecube.

The biggest difference between the two cases is that the cube was profitable.

 

[Vinci]

Slow down buddy I'm not here to sell you a PS3, I'm just saying its silly to think that having a gaming PC makes console gaming obsolete.

Perhaps not uniformly, but to some of us, it definitely weakens console gaming's inherent value (as we perceive it).

Either way as time goes on the line is going to continue to blur, its just then natural progression of technology. Hell even the Wii is pretty much a PC when you really get down to it and the next generation of consoles will all be like 360/PS3/whatever.

Technologically, yes, I agree that next-gen is going to bring consoles more inline with PC gaming. However, I think Nintendo clearly understands the differences between the two and will continue to promote gaming that is unabashedly 'console' in identity - ie. the style of gaming that provides value to a console to me. Sony and Microsoft seem pretty happy going towards more dedicated PC gaming experiences and that's fine - but as a gamer, it pushes me further from their products.

Of course who the hell knows what's going to happen next-gen at this point?

 

[botticus]

I'm not sure if it helps, but a 14 year old kid was telling his 10 year old brother at Target this afternoon that the PS3 will be getting a price drop down to $200 (cheaper than the Wii!) in 3 months.

No pressure, Sony!

 

[wackojackosnose]

I'm just saying its silly to think that having a gaming PC makes console gaming obsolete. There is still a purpose for consoles and there is still a lot of exclusively between the 2, if you think they aren't worth the money that's kool.

I don't think the PC's made the 360 or PS3 obsolete (yet!), but the fact that I can play some of their top 3rd party games without having to pay an additional ~£150 - £300 for the extra console means I can wait some time for their prices to collapse even further - bad news for Sony. :/

So when do we think the PS3 will reach my price cap of £150 (which is the price I paid for a Mega Drive with Sonic and Golden Axe 2)?

 

[Chemo]

Sony and Microsoft seem pretty happy going towards more dedicated PC gaming experiences and that's fine - but as a gamer, it pushes me further from their products.

I think you might want to rephrase that to "as a console gamer."

 

[spwolf]

Seems like you were born yesterday, the PS3 was and is still given a load of allowances by the games press.

Remember a lot of them had told us over and over how the PS3 would come out and dominate the other two consoles.

rewriting the history eh? :lol

 

[JudgeN]

Technologically, yes, I agree that next-gen is going to bring consoles more inline with PC gaming. However, I think Nintendo clearly understands the differences between the two and will continue to promote gaming that is unabashedly 'console' in identity - ie. the style of gaming that provides value to a console to me. Sony and Microsoft seem pretty happy going towards more dedicated PC gaming experiences and that's fine - but as a gamer, it pushes me further from their products.

Of course who the hell knows what's going to happen next-gen at this point?

What about the Wii is really that different from the 360/PS3 PCness that you dislike so much? It gets firmware updates that improve the OS and add features just like the HD brothers. It has an online store that you can buy downloabable stuff from just like its HD brothers. You can message friends and surf the internet just like its HD brothers, maybe i'm missing it but the Wii isn't all that different. There are some minor things but when you really get down to the heart of it, they are all have features that are PC like.

 

[Forsete]

rewriting the history eh? :lol

Yup :lol

 

[Dabanton]

rewriting the history eh? :lol

Err no are you telling me that the PS3 did not get a softer time of it by the games press?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I think you might want to rephrase that to "as a console gamer."

Why would he do that? His point is that if you own a PC already (and most people do), you can play the PC versions of these games and skip buying the consoles. So really, if anything, he should rephrase it to "as a PC gamer".

 

[Trailblazer]

Seems like you were born yesterday, the PS3 was and is still given a load of allowances by the games press.

Remember a lot of them had told us over and over how the PS3 would come out and dominate the other two consoles.

:lol :lol :lol thats a good one.

 

[CHRP718]

Err no are you telling me that the PS3 did not get a softer time of it by the games press?

wut?
troll harder.

 

[neojubei]

Err no are you telling me that the PS3 did not get a softer time of it by the games press?

I guess you might not have been a member when all of those PS3 am doom articles were written.

 

[Vinci]

I think you might want to rephrase that to "as a console gamer."

Makes sense.

What about the Wii is really that different from the 360/PS3 PCness that you dislike so much? I gets firmware updates that improve the OS and add features just like the HD brothers. It has an online store that you can buy downloabable stuff from just like its HD brothers. You can message friends and surf the internet just like its HD brothers, maybe i'm missing it but the Wii isn't all that different. There are some minor things but when you really get down to the heart of it, they are all have features that are PC like.

I'm not talking about those sort of things - I'm talking about the headlining game experiences each system offers. The Wii offers games that are uniformly different from those you ordinarily see on the PC. That's not true always, but it's true enough of the time that it becomes attuned to what I see as a console's identity (or distinction from the PC gaming space). Most of the major games on the PS3 and 360 are in some way a console iteration (or are very relatively close) to those experiences that I consider PC-like and would prefer to have them on my PC. Paying extra money for a console to experience games that are rather similar to those I can experience on my gaming PC that I already own seems worthless to me.

There is a clear difference between the sorts of games you see on the Wii and those you see on the PS360 - which is why people who hate the Wii always point out the difference and why Wii fans do as well, only with the attitude surrounding that distinction reversed.

 

[Zek]

Of course it's impossible for the PS3 to do what it did without having some criticism in the press, but overall it definitely got an easy break. Sony had an absolutely massive lead and they squandered it. Even if they do somehow eventually beat the 360 it's still pitiful.

 

[spwolf]

None of those things are reasons for a developer to pick the PS3 over the other two systems at the tail-end of its life.

The long tail for a system is 100% about install base and attach rate. PS3 loses on both counts. Blu-ray isn't an exclusive feature either, it's self-defeating. Either Blu-ray becomes popular, which means companies with much lower costs can make players much cheaper than the PS3, or it dies, in which case it won't mean anything for the console in the long term.

What are you even talking about? Do you know how much money developers make on PS3? Or are you just pulling things out of your ass trying to hit something right?

:lol

I suggest that you check EA's investor documents to educate yourself.

 

[Trailblazer]

Err no are you telling me that the PS3 did not get a softer time of it by the games press?

Your fucking kidding right ?

 

[spwolf]

I guess you might not have been a member when all of those PS3 am doom articles were written.

heh, its like entering twilight zone

 

[-Rogue5-]

Err no are you telling me that the PS3 did not get a softer time of it by the games press?

I don't think so. I think what happen was the 360's RROD issue was so horrendous that it wouldn't have been fair to slam the PS3's weak performance. Aside from price, there's nothing really wrong with the PS3 (although I guess there was nothing really wrong with the gamecube, either).

 

[Vinci]

Why would he do that? His point is that if you own a PC already (and most people do), you can play the PC versions of these games and skip buying the consoles. So really, if anything, he should rephrase it to "as a PC gamer".

Depends on the perspective, I think. As a console gamer with very particular ideas as to what a 'console experience' is, I find what Sony and Microsoft are doing strange and uninteresting for the most part. As a PC gamer, I look at what they're doing and go, "Um ... okay, good luck with that" - and can basically ignore what they're offering either because it will appear on the PC later on or is competing against games already on the PC that are relatively even in quality, if not better.

For example, I can't see why anyone would tout PSN or Live as the next big thing in a world where Steam exists.

 

[thaOwner]

Seems like you were born yesterday, the PS3 was and is still given a load of allowances by the games press.

Remember a lot of them had told us over and over how the PS3 would come out and dominate the other two consoles.

Besides Shane and from 1UP and to a lesser extent Patcher, what other credible journalists have said
what you are claiming ? I've noticed a pattern with a lot of your posts and it reeks of something.

EDIT: Also, at this point, any one who still thinks the PS3 or the 360 for that matter, will overtake wii is a confused, fanboy or
something else and should not be taken seriously.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I don't think so. I think what happen was the 360's RROD issue was so horrendous that it wouldn't have been fair to slam the PS3's weak performance. Aside from price, there's nothing really wrong with the PS3 (although I guess there was nothing really wrong with the gamecube, either).

I really doubt that's what happened. The RROD had nothing to do with EDGE putting a giant PS3 monolith on the cover, blotting out the Planet Earth.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Alright, now we're at the part of the thread where we all accuse each other of being virals, then the thread is locked, and we all go home to wait for the same thread to come back in a couple of days.

Good night everybody!

PS YOU ARE ALL VIRALS

PPS AS AM I

 

[knitoe]

Sony's between a rock and a hard place. Drop price and get a small sale surge, but loose profitability. In turn, no doubt, Microsoft will probably respond with price drop (surge) of their own. The cycle will repeat itself again. Sony will be back at step 1. Don't see how Sony can break this cycle.

 

[JudgeN]

I'm not talking about those sort of things - I'm talking about the headlining game experiences each system offers. The Wii offers games that are uniformly different from those you ordinarily see on the PC. That's not true always, but it's true enough of the time that it becomes attuned to what I see as a console's identity (or distinction from the PC gaming space). Most of the major games on the PS3 and 360 are in some way a console iteration (or are very relatively close) to those experiences that I consider PC-like and would prefer to have them on my PC. Paying extra money for a console to experience games that are rather similar to those I can experience on my gaming PC that I already own seems worthless to me.

There is a clear difference between the sorts of games you see on the Wii and those you see on the PS360 - which is why people who hate the Wii always point out the difference and why Wii fans do as well, only with the attitude surrounding that distinction reversed.

Ahh makes sense, and I can see where your coming from crystal clear.

 

[herod]

What are you even talking about? Do you know how much money developers make on PS3? Or are you just pulling things out of your ass trying to hit something right?

:lol

I suggest that you check EA's investor documents to educate yourself.

So, a few EA sports titles will keep it afloat? Much like the Xbox I suppose. After Sony have moved their big teams to the PS4, there won't be any other serious development on titles for the PS3. It is not strong in any characteristics of the PS2, not least because the DS is soaking up all that budget.

 

[Dunlop]

For example, I can't see why anyone would tout PSN or Live as the next big thing in a world where Steam exists.

Because you will get an audience on LIVE and PSN that will never use Steam (Living room vs Office...).

I grew up as a die hard PC gamer, over the years (working in a gawd forsaken cubicle) and you would not pay me to use a PC to game (OK, so I'm still playing WAR).

Example, my wife plays online games with her friends across the globe on my 360, the kids mess around and show each other their avatars and talk up a storm. Could it be done on the PC? Of course, but none of these people would have ever even attempted it.

 

[J-Rzez]

Especially when you compare it what the media was saying about the Gamecube.

The biggest difference between the two cases is that the cube was profitable.

The only reason it would get any bit of a break is because there's an even bigger difference between the two cases than what you listed, the PS3 has a vastly larger selection of games worth a damn on it, and even more on the way. But if anyone thinks that the PS3 has gotten a free pass on heat this gen from the media, they obviously have been under a rock.

If anyone remains optimistic of the PS3 it's because they know it's a great machine, and to some, the greatest technological machine to date for console gaming. It's not hard to see that some people slag on the PS3 because they can't afford it, and it's not hard to understand that many haven't bought one because the price is way too damn high yet to this day even. The game library is just as strong, if not stronger with their 1st (2nd) party devs efforts this gen, and there's even more titles on the way.

As far as a price cut, can Sony afford it as is, no. But many seem to forget that they can most easily cut costs on their unit compared to others. As the prices of all the "new" tech in the PS3 settles down, as new dies hit, etc, it may just actually lower the cost for them itself that they can lower the price without a hitch.

 

[herod]

I guess you might not have been a member when all of those PS3 am doom articles were written.

Like this one?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/a_e32005nextgeneditorialrob

I couldn't even find the most pathetic one.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I guess you might not have been a member when all of those PS3 am doom articles were written.

Wasn't that a recent thing? It really wasn't the case the first few years prior to that.

Some people seem to have a selective memory around here. I wonder why.

 

[gofreak]

ITT, people see what they want to see.

I'm amazed certain edge covers were burned into folks' memories, yet seemingly they've forgotten all the fire PS3 came under also. I should know, I was there fighting a lot of it :lol

 

[J-Rzez]

Like this one?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/a_e32005nextgeneditorialrob

I couldn't even find the most pathetic one.

17 May, 2005

A lot has changed on that stance post $599,999.99 price tag. Especially post launch. There's still a very heavy bias in the media today for the 360 even.

 

[Vinci]

Because you will get an audience on LIVE and PSN that will never use Steam (Living room vs Office...).

Exactly, but that also explains why - when I did play online using Live - I either never used the headset or at least turned the volume all the way down so I wouldn't have to hear the random folks I'd get matched up with. But that's beside the point: You're basically arguing in favor of the PS360 for the exact reason most people who champion either of those consoles trolls the Wii. Accessibility.

Example, my wife plays online games with her friends across the globe on my 360, the kids mess around and show each other their avatars and talk up a storm. Could it be done on the PC? Of course, but none of these people would have ever even attempted it.

Know that casual market that so many people seem to think came out of nowhere upon the Wii's release? Many of those mothers and grandmothers were gaming long before through the PC. Every single person I know over the age of 30 plays something on the PC and communicates with people via it - either by chat or a headset - just fine. Our cases are both anecdotal, but I think neither is more common than the other.

An aside: I'm happy to hear your family is enjoying your system. It makes owning these things far more rewarding.

 

[Jostifer]

the PS3 was and is still given a load of allowances by the games press.

RROD caused a record high failure rate in console history. Wherein earlier 'records' range around 3%, RROD had every third console die. Microsoft practically denied this for 18months and besides a random mention here and there the press didn't push this issue. The failure ratio that took place here will probably never ever be seen again. MS was selling a broken product and the press showed them endless leniency while at the same time consistently dooming the Sony system. So please..

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

ITT, people see what they want to see.

I'm amazed certain edge covers were burned into folks' memories, yet seemingly they've forgotten all the fire PS3 came under also. I should know, I was there fighting a lot of it :lol

I have many EDGE covers burned into my mind. It's a very well designed magazine.

 

[herod]

17 May, 2005

A lot has changed on that stance post $599,999.99 price tag. Especially post launch. There's still a very heavy bias in the media today for the 360 even.

It's not really bias though, is it? Sony over-promised and under-delivered, and made a lot of optimistic infectiously enthusiastic journalists look stupid along the way. If you release target renders and then take 3.5 years to fulfil them then it can't really come as a huge shock, surely?

 

[mj1108]

Sony's between a rock and a hard place. Drop price and get a small sale surge, but loose profitability. In turn, no doubt, Microsoft will probably respond with price drop (surge) of their own. The cycle will repeat itself again. Sony will be back at step 1. Don't see how Sony can break this cycle.

Meanwhile Nintendo sits at $250 and continues to outsell them both several times over.

 

[Vinci]

RROD caused a record high failure rate in console history. Wherein earlier 'records' range around 3%, RROD had every third console die. Microsoft practically denied this for 18months and besides a random mention here and there the press didn't push this issue. The failure ratio that took place here will probably never ever be seen again. MS was selling a broken product and the press showed them endless leniency while at the same time consistently dooming the Sony system. So please..

Not so sure about the 'Sony am doomed' bias, but I felt journalists were overly kind to MS on the whole RROD thing. But then, many gamers appear to be as well - when it's the one reason I'll never own a 360. Damn thing could be $20 and I wouldn't buy it.

 

[gtj1092]

ITT, people see what they want to see.

I'm amazed certain edge covers were burned into folks' memories, yet seemingly they've forgotten all the fire PS3 came under also. I should know, I was there fighting a lot of it :lol

Yeah pretty much this. Its not black or white either way.

 

[Dunlop]

An aside: I'm happy to hear your family is enjoying your system. It makes owning these things far more rewarding.

You have no idea, my wife pointed out a crazy promo for a 360 at Futureshop and asked if I wanted it for Christmas. I said no as I already had one...she cracked and fessed up that she wanted it (for games and as a media extender ).

It was a glorious day :lol

In the end I got a Falcon 360, Fable II and VP2 for $200

 

[jmdajr]

Sony's between a rock and a hard place. Drop price and get a small sale surge, but loose profitability. In turn, no doubt, Microsoft will probably respond with price drop (surge) of their own. The cycle will repeat itself again. Sony will be back at step 1. Don't see how Sony can break this cycle.

yup, sure is a doozy

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Yeah pretty much this. Its not black or white either way.

No it isn't. I just don't think RROD had somehow caused an emotion-based reaction game journalism worldwide.

 

[Dunlop]

Damn thing could be $20 and I wouldn't buy it.

Valid personal opinion, you are missing out on a great system though.

I can relate however, I missed out on the PS2 due to my biases against Sony and EA for curb stomping my beloved DreamCast

I just noticed last night that I somehow switched over to using my PS3 exclusively as my media hub in the last month and that I haven't played a game on the 360 since KZ2 came out. Meanwhile my Wii has not been used in over 3 months : (

The hardware issue while deplorable, was a great strategic move (the early launch, not the shitty testing) as there is no way we would be having this discussion if PS3 and 360 launched at the same time.

 

[herod]

No it isn't. I just don't think RROD had somehow caused an emotion-based reaction game journalism worldwide.

Pretty much a characteristic of critics vs. journalists really. None of the 'big sites' have anything much to gain from running that kind of story, mostly they're happy to do the day job: reviewing the titles that they're given in the context of the system they're on. People don't pay IGN subscriptions for investigative journalism.

Complaining that the gaming press didn't have much to say on the matter kind of ignores the fact that it's not really in their remit (indeed, wasn't this mostly covered by Cnet news, Dean Takahashi, N'Gai etc.?).

 

[Tom Penny]

I don't see the big deal. Don't they have like 8 more years of price cuts. It will be cheap by 2016.