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Sony HMZ-T1 first Organic EL 3D head mounted display
- Thread starter PuppetMaster
- Start date
PantyPhantom said:
Hmm, I wasn't aware it could be done. I also had problems with the padding that sits on your forehead, and apparently, that was adjustable too, but when I tried, I wasn't able to fix it.
But yes, if the nose piece is adjustable, it'd make a world of difference.
Naked Snake
Member
Re: not amazing sounding headphones.
I guess one can opt to skip the built-in headphones and pass the audio through their own audio receiver/home theater while wearing this headset? That should be possible right?
Perhaps not an ideal solution but should allow people who have existing decent audio systems not to sacrifice on sound.
Edit: unless the built in headphones are the closed type which block outside sound and are unmovable?
I guess one can opt to skip the built-in headphones and pass the audio through their own audio receiver/home theater while wearing this headset? That should be possible right?
Perhaps not an ideal solution but should allow people who have existing decent audio systems not to sacrifice on sound.
Edit: unless the built in headphones are the closed type which block outside sound and are unmovable?
Naked Snake
Member
Zaptruder said:
I was thinking of not sending an audio input signal to the HMZ... Surely that can be done with an A/V receiver? I'd imagine something like:
PS3 -> Receiver
Receiver: Audio -> Speakers
Receiver: Video -> HMZ-T1
Audio can be sent seperately either through HDMI, optical, or analog cables.
Of course it significantly diminishes the "small footprint" (in physical dimensions and power consumption) and privacy, which are some of the main things that make the HMZ appealing. But I could still see a setup like the above be useful occasionally when you want "theater" sound if you have the gear for it already.
kyo_daikun
Member
Still no uk date or price, bloody pain in the arse!
Naked Snake said:
Yes, I do this now. HDMI from PS3-Reciever, HDMI from receiver to TV. When my receiver is off, the TV gets picture and audio from PS3. When my receiver is on, my TV gets picture only, receiver handles sound. So plugging the HMZ-T1 in between the receiver and the TV would work well. - receiver off - HMZ handles audio. Receiver on - HMZ is picture only.
Plus then I can feed it any input my receiver takes - so PS3, DVR, bluray player
Well I already have a HDTV but it has burn in and its getting to that point where its about to die.mrklaw said:
Here is the thing though no one usually comes over my place because it is small so the TV is more for personal use rather than being used in a group setting so thats why I am thinking about just getting this, only problem I see is trying to get a Xbox Live headset to work on this thing.
Naked Snake
Member
wwm0nkey said:
Depends how you use your TV... Do you live with girlfriend/wife/partner/roommates/family? Or do you usually watch/play games by yourself?
I live on my own and very rarely have guests over. So it's definitely this for me.
iceatcs
Junior Member
wwm0nkey said:
True, never thought about that.
At least it will be okay for me because I cannot use the voice chat very well because I'm deaf. But it made me realise how can I use this HMZ with my hearing aids on. I hate wear a headphone with hearing aids.
LOL that HMZ is so discriminate, one eye blind or deaf cannot use it very well.
wwm0nkey said:
I believe there are mic only options for headsets... such as the throat based communicator.
If you have a good couch to lie back into (like a Chaise Longue of some sort, or a recliner) then this would definetly be the way to go.
Even without the comfy couch, as long as you have the ability to lie in a reclined position (bed, propped up by pillows), comfortably for hours, then this would be the better purchase.
Otherwise, it's a secondary display device; something you buy AFTER you have a TV, which is more functional for practical reasons.
DrPirate said:
In one of the videos I watched, they said three different sized pads came in the box. So it's adjustable in so far as you can take it off and put on one that's thicker/thinner.
I'd imagine getting the best fit from those three would make a significant difference when it comes to the amount of pressure being forced down onto the nose.
Ok I think I have things all figured out.
Since my room is small I had to move my PC in the basement area as well as my other stuff. I am thinking about selling my current TV for around $300, buy a pair of these and a HDMI switcher move all my stuff up stairs and hook my TV, PC, PS3 and Xbox all up to this device and my 32" TV in my room.
need to buy a wireless KB+M too.
Anyone think that is a good idea?
Since my room is small I had to move my PC in the basement area as well as my other stuff. I am thinking about selling my current TV for around $300, buy a pair of these and a HDMI switcher move all my stuff up stairs and hook my TV, PC, PS3 and Xbox all up to this device and my 32" TV in my room.
need to buy a wireless KB+M too.
Anyone think that is a good idea?
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Reallink said:
Last night a 3rd party seller was accepting orders. Now I see that Amazon proper, as a Sony Retailer is taking them.
A small question about the sound. Beyond the quality, isn't it weird that you're looking at a big screen in a big space, but the sound as a lot more narrow field in your ears ?
Also while i was at the movies, i thought about something i was wondering about.. This whole 720p giant but sharp picture seems weird, but i think i understood the magic. Tell me if i'm crazy :
_If you're looking at a screen from 10m, you will see a certain amount of detail on it, based on your view skills.
_Now if you look at the exact same screen from 20m, you will see less details on it, obviously.
_But with this tech, the screen is technically more far away, BUT you still see the same amount of detail. That would mean, if i'm not wrong, that the more a same resolution image looks virtually far away from you, the more you'll feel it's detailed...
Also while i was at the movies, i thought about something i was wondering about.. This whole 720p giant but sharp picture seems weird, but i think i understood the magic. Tell me if i'm crazy :
_If you're looking at a screen from 10m, you will see a certain amount of detail on it, based on your view skills.
_Now if you look at the exact same screen from 20m, you will see less details on it, obviously.
_But with this tech, the screen is technically more far away, BUT you still see the same amount of detail. That would mean, if i'm not wrong, that the more a same resolution image looks virtually far away from you, the more you'll feel it's detailed...
orioto said:
No, a 12" 720p screen at 1' away will seem to have the same amount of detail as a 120" 720p screen at 10'. However, the amazing infinite contrast of OLED will make the image produced seem to have more detail than it really does (compare a 720p Kuro to any 1080p LCD) and the way that your brain combines the distinct images going to each eye also makes the resolution seem higher.
Just tried it today at a Sony store in Markham, Ontario (Markville Mall).
The display felt really uncomfortable but I did not adjust it at all so it is probably the reason why. I've also never played games in 3d before so playing Killzone 3 in 3d really impressed me. If I get the new job I interviewed for I'm definitely putting a preorder down.
According to the salesperson at the store, they only have 39 on order for this location but he doesn't seem to know when it is coming.
The display felt really uncomfortable but I did not adjust it at all so it is probably the reason why. I've also never played games in 3d before so playing Killzone 3 in 3d really impressed me. If I get the new job I interviewed for I'm definitely putting a preorder down.
According to the salesperson at the store, they only have 39 on order for this location but he doesn't seem to know when it is coming.
Tried the unit yesterday at the Sony Store in Osaka.
When you put it on and adjust it correctly it basically immediately works pretty well. Watching the spiderman trailer was pretty awesome and it definitely felt like I had a little theater in my head. It can't really tell how big the size of the screen felt...It felt big but not cinema-big.
I also tried Gran Turismo which was ok, but wasn't an amazing demo. I brought my own copy of Shadow of the Colossus but as expected wasn't allowed to put it in.
For me the unit was also a bit hard on the nose. Also, I think somebody said that the nose can be adjusted, but the lady that helped me said the rubber in there can only be interchanged by one of the same.
I had some trouble with reading text in the top right of the screen when I was playing gran turismo....Not sure if this was because of me not having adjusted the unit too well at that time, or if it has something to do with my eyes.
All in all it delivers on its promise, and if I had 60.000 yen to spent I'd definitely get one. I was hyped for the 3ds because of the 3d, but this is way cooler. Having your own 3d bubble is pretty fun.
I'd keep a screen on the side though, unless you only watch movies and live alone.
When you put it on and adjust it correctly it basically immediately works pretty well. Watching the spiderman trailer was pretty awesome and it definitely felt like I had a little theater in my head. It can't really tell how big the size of the screen felt...It felt big but not cinema-big.
I also tried Gran Turismo which was ok, but wasn't an amazing demo. I brought my own copy of Shadow of the Colossus but as expected wasn't allowed to put it in.
For me the unit was also a bit hard on the nose. Also, I think somebody said that the nose can be adjusted, but the lady that helped me said the rubber in there can only be interchanged by one of the same.
I had some trouble with reading text in the top right of the screen when I was playing gran turismo....Not sure if this was because of me not having adjusted the unit too well at that time, or if it has something to do with my eyes.
All in all it delivers on its promise, and if I had 60.000 yen to spent I'd definitely get one. I was hyped for the 3ds because of the 3d, but this is way cooler. Having your own 3d bubble is pretty fun.
I'd keep a screen on the side though, unless you only watch movies and live alone.
I tried the visor about an hour ago.
The headset mount is rather tight but I wish the front part doesn't rest on my nose too much. I had to tighten the center belt so that the entire headset is lifted above my nose. It's more comfortable that way for me. Took me about 10-15 seconds to wear it. I adjusted the gear a little... mainly to see what it feels like if the headset was not resting on my nose. Finally, tightened the belt to make it so.
That's the only complain.
At first I forgot to pull the ear piece over my ears. They can be moved almost completely out of the way. Once over my ears, the sound is fine (as in immersive and beefy). Overall, the sound quality is good enough for me (Volume is also not an issue at all).
As for the visual, it's stunning. The store set up a GT5 demo station, and a looping movie demo (Green Hornet + Harry Potter). I can't see the pixels in GT5 nor the movies. ^_^
The headsets don't have the bottom pad attached. A little bit of light is leaking from top and bottom but it's not too bad. If you play it in a dark room, it does feel like a completely dark small theater with only you inside. In SonyStyle with the gears on, it's still darker than my living room.
The 3D effect is not straining at all, and there is no ghosting. Really appreciate the optics. This is the best 3D experience for me. Even better than the theaters once I adjusted the headset.
I did get a little giddy/floaty while driving GT5 and turning my head at the same time (Should sit down and play).
I think 3D music video with your favorite stars in it would be amazing. There is a short clip with a dancing singer inside. Not sure about pr0n yet. ^_^ Underwater 3D movie is my favorite 3D showcase. I wish they had some materials like that for show.
The headset mount is rather tight but I wish the front part doesn't rest on my nose too much. I had to tighten the center belt so that the entire headset is lifted above my nose. It's more comfortable that way for me. Took me about 10-15 seconds to wear it. I adjusted the gear a little... mainly to see what it feels like if the headset was not resting on my nose. Finally, tightened the belt to make it so.
That's the only complain.
At first I forgot to pull the ear piece over my ears. They can be moved almost completely out of the way. Once over my ears, the sound is fine (as in immersive and beefy). Overall, the sound quality is good enough for me (Volume is also not an issue at all).
As for the visual, it's stunning. The store set up a GT5 demo station, and a looping movie demo (Green Hornet + Harry Potter). I can't see the pixels in GT5 nor the movies. ^_^
The headsets don't have the bottom pad attached. A little bit of light is leaking from top and bottom but it's not too bad. If you play it in a dark room, it does feel like a completely dark small theater with only you inside. In SonyStyle with the gears on, it's still darker than my living room.
The 3D effect is not straining at all, and there is no ghosting. Really appreciate the optics. This is the best 3D experience for me. Even better than the theaters once I adjusted the headset.
I did get a little giddy/floaty while driving GT5 and turning my head at the same time (Should sit down and play).
I think 3D music video with your favorite stars in it would be amazing. There is a short clip with a dancing singer inside. Not sure about pr0n yet. ^_^ Underwater 3D movie is my favorite 3D showcase. I wish they had some materials like that for show.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Yeah, the headset is not supposed to be resting on your nose practically at all. It should come with three different sized forehead pads that you can choose from, based on your head size, to make sure it's not resting on your nose.patsu said:
Which underwater 3d demo you're talking about specifically?
Local SonyStyle store still doesn't have these for demoing, sigh.
I'm beginning to be worried with nonsensical reviews here and there...
Like this one :
http://www.t3.com/reviews/sony-personal-3d-viewer-review
I mean, seriously ?? What the fuck is he taking about ...
And.. "Almost Nintendo 3DS like in terms of 3D quality" What does that even mean... I still don't get how people can judge a 3D device as if there was more depth with one or the other.. How could even a device with two screens for each eyes have a "flat" 3D... lol...
Like this one :
http://www.t3.com/reviews/sony-personal-3d-viewer-review
I mean, seriously ?? What the fuck is he taking about ...
And.. "Almost Nintendo 3DS like in terms of 3D quality" What does that even mean... I still don't get how people can judge a 3D device as if there was more depth with one or the other.. How could even a device with two screens for each eyes have a "flat" 3D... lol...
orioto said:
I have been following this thread on the 3D viewer, impressions are postive overall:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1357798&page=32
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
It's almost like he's reviewing some different product. Moving his head throwing off the seemingly small 3D sweet spot? How's it even possible that something of this kind has 3D sweet spot when each eye is fed its own independent image. Moving your head shouldn't affect absolutely anything as the headgear moves with it...orioto said:
Maybe the picture breaks if you try moving your eyes around, bit somehow I doubt it, as I don't see why it would. People from AVS are saying you can move your eyes around just fine to see more of the picture. Then again, I can see how moving your head around with the picture not following with it accordingly, could be very disorienting. I think this thing should probably be used with your head being as still as possible.
Lord Error said:
It seems the guy speaks about rounded edge for the screen, which means the lenses weren't properly adjusted at all.. Also it seems some of the test footage are converted movies in 3D, and they generally are really bad 3D content. This is always the same problem with those new things. Constructors should be a lot more demanding regarding the way they are tested.
I'm pretty certain Bluray was really injured by store demoing it on hd ready plasma with bad component cables...
Naked Snake
Member
Fusebox said:
Yeah this is one thing I'm curious about. How is the "pop out" effect on this thing? I know that the 3DS can do "pop out" 3D but it's subtle most of the time due to the size of the screen (I think the larger the screen, the more pronounced the effect is). Since the HMZ-T1 physically uses small screens, but they're supposed to appear much bigger, I wonder how that translates to the above.
Vandiger said:
Great, thanks for the link.
Actually, that may not be completely stupid... There's indeed a difference between such a device and a 3DS screen. And it's the same issue that makes 3D in theater often less good than on a closer and smaller screen.orioto said:
I'll try to explain. One paradox with 3D is that a smaller and closer screen can be better than a larger and farther one. In a theater, the screen is far from the eye. There's very little parallax differences between an object 30 meters away and 200 meters away. Given that human eyes are only ~12cm apart, the "useful" range is not that long, and you get "diminishing returns" with farther objects.
For this reason, a theater often use what I'll call "positive" 3D, which is objects closer to the viewer than the screen. The effects works better: it seems to pop, and the 3D feeling is more obvious than any 3D behind the screen. The drawback for this is that with this kind of "positive" 3D, you get many inconsistencies with borders (an object "in front of" the screen and on the left/right side can often be visible by only one eye).
With a closer screen you can use "negative" 3D. Id est only use parallax that construct objects "behind" the screen. It works like a window which allow you to look into a 3D world. There's no inconsistencies in this behavior (that's the reason why i feel more confortable with this kind of 3D on 3DS: I really like Pro Evo Soccer 3D, for example, *except* for the goal nets when the camera rotates, which are positive, and thus induce small inconsistencies that disturb the eye).
I hope that I manage to convey the basic idea. That's the reason why there's more potential with 3D on handheld devices, computer screens, and 36-55" TV sets than with theaters. That's also the reason why you need DIFFERENT sources (read different blu-rays with different parallax settings, or different parallax settings in games) for a large screen and a small screen. It's a big issue, by the way, because most movies will be encoded for ~40-50" screens, and people with larger screens and real home theaters will get a not-so-great 3D.
Assuming you want the same effect on a larger screen, even if you could change the settings (which can be an issue, as said before), you still get more inconsistencies with larger screens.
Now for the HMD. Usually, you want a large and farther screen: it's closer to theater screens, and it reduce eyestrain (eye focus is closer to punctum remotum, where muscles are not sollicitated). In this case, that's not so obvious. The optics may leave the ability to produce a smaller, yet closer screen. That could very well be an important feature. You'll get more eyestrain, but by coming closer to a 40-50" screen at a ~1.5m distance, you'll get a better result for 3D, and be closer to what sources are designed for.
Ideally, they should create screen larger thatn 16:9 (something like 18:9), put black bars on the side, and only allow objects in front of the screen to be displayed above those black bars. That'll reduce 3D inconsistencies (they definitively should do this more often in theaters... the brain still don't understand why there's invisible barriers for objects moving to the sides that make them disappear without visible obstruction). That being done, you can create a 3D image taylored for an HMD (and I hope that Sony will put settings especially for their HMD).
I'm pretty sure that you're busted for movies, though... I don't see them publish discs with multiples parallax settings (and it's problematic to modify them on the fly).
Koren said:
Thx, great reading
Well that makes sense but it's not even the reviewers problem i guess. And people are in need for really different things when you think about it. This "poping out" effect everyone wants in theater, is completely dumb and out of subject for me, and an ideal 3D would be the one you got on a 3ds, with depth, but on a really large screen... And if it's not possible, that's actually why 3D movies suck totally at being impressive... I don't want to feel things in my face, i want to feel vertigo!
But at least with games you can change that.
I read (maybe on the AVS link that was poster by Vandiger i don't remember) that you can actually cheat with the screen size when calibrating the 3D to boost the effect.
Naked Snake
Member
orioto said:
I don't have much experience with 3DTVs or 3D movies in theaters. But when I demoed a large LG 3DTV in a showroom, it was showing the documentary IMAX: Space Station 3D, and the pop out effect was very impressive. The astronauts were playfully throwing things towards the camera (how could one resist doing that in zero G?), and the object appeared to smoothly fly out of the screen and hit the glasses I'm wearing before bouncing back. The effect was very smooth and impressive, especially since I was standing a good distance from the TV, and made me think "I wish the 3DS could do that."
I'm not saying that I want OMG-POP-OUT for every scene in a movie or a game, but I can see approperiate applications for it when used tastefully.
Haint
Member
Koren said:
That's curious. Are you familiar with why video content (e.g. movie trailers, the Nintendo Video shorts) produces a very weak 3D effect on 3DS? My assumption was that it was down to the screen size. I figured they were straight ports of content that was "Mastered" for much larger screens (e.g. theaters or TV's) which simply doesn't translate to 3DS's 3" screen. What you're describing sounds like it should be the exact opposite of that though. Can you explain what's going on with that?
Reallink said:
Pretty confusing indeed, but it should be noted that this week (in Europe at least) there is a concert movie that has great depth.
And about all that screen size thing. The only thing i know from my experience at converting my own art to 3d is that i do it on a full HD version to begin with, with roughly 200 pixels of range, meaning there is 50 pixels difference max in front of the screen (between right and left layers) and 150 in the background. That translate well to a 400x240 image on 3ds, with big depth.
When you design a 3D video, you're free to set the parallax to what you think is the best for the users. Think 3DS 3D slider: since it's not rendered in realtime but two videos pre-recorded, they have to choose for the user.Reallink said:
I think that they go for a "safe" choice. Some people here use the slider at 100%, but some find it disturbing. Noone will find it disturbing at 25-30%, just lacking some depth for some players. That's really a tricky choice, in fact: please people who want a lot of depth, and avoid that some other are disturbed by the effect.
Fun fact: some games, such as GT5, give you a "slider" for the 3D effect, but even at max, you're nowhere near full-depth. In fact, if you want to get full depth in GT5, the only solution is to play internal view at the closest setting, I've been said (not tested myself yet). That kinda soulds like a strange behavior, or even a bug, though. But they probably chose to avoid letting the player setting depth to full.
Besides, a close screen has advantages when displaying depth effects, but for a same parallax in centimeters, you need a larger parallax in pixels if the pixels are smaller. There's many variables involved, but if the 3D video has been designed for a computer screen or a TV set, the parallax can be unsufficient or too large for a different screen.
So I'd say it depends. For movies trailers, it may just be because they were produced for a different kind of screen. For Nintendo trailers, assuming they werer correctly designed for 3DS, I'd say that Nintendo put "their" slider on ~30% to make it confortable for everyone.
I you read too much between the lines, that may also mean that Nintendo is considering a 3DS XL... With the same 3D video, a larger screen will produce mode depth (that's also true for larger and farther screens, but again, depth is quickly lost when objects are 10+ meters away... largest screen can even produce excessive parallax). So if they don't want to remake all their 3D videos, they should avoid a too high parallax.
Computer-generated content will always be better than video for 3D, because you can adapt more easily the effect to the diffuser. That's one the reasons why PS3 and other 3D players ask the size of your set (or get it through HDMI automatically).
(I hope I haven't made too many mistakes, it's a complex matter, and I'm a bit exhausted. But you get the main ideas: correct parallax for the images depends on screen real size, not only apparent size ; farthest screens have drawbacks with respects to closer screens ; etc. You can only produce images for a given display, and images for a display won't work as good on a different one, which is a major issue for 3D Blu-rays and movies should even be filmed differently for theater and for BR releases, or at least be corrected)
thuway said:
[stretch hands]
"This wide".
FFS, how do I tell you ?
Say... if my entire view is black (after wearing the visor), the left and right edges are about 1-2 cm. I forgot the top and bottom borders. They may be thicker, but my feeling is the screen is big enough. You won't feel constrained.