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[KiefbladeMaster]

Kickstarters *really* need to make it clear when their aim is only to gain major publisher support.

This, basically. State your intentions from the beginning.

 

[BoboBrazil]

It really sucks that it came out Sony was helping with funding. Seems to have slowed down the kickstarter alot. The more money in the project the better and we don't know how much Sony is actually giving to them to help make it happen. Was very generous of Sony to let a PC version still come out though.

 

[Krejlooc]

You know what, I have a question for some of you. Is there anyone in this thread who backed the project, and is now removing funding due to this?

I really want to know if this outrage is coming from actual backers or people who had no financial investment in this whatsoever from the start

I wish they would add another tier so I could donate more money.

 

[Pizza]

Sony doesnt get this money. Yu suzuki does.

Alright I'm sorry. You're right! I just feel like Sony would not have hyped this game just for it to die, I feel like they would have funded it either way.

If the kickstarter died they could have taken the "we're saving shenmue!" Route.

But again, if y'all are happy with your investment who am I to judge: I don't know all the details

 

[Steve Youngblood]

So you basically think that people who spend more than the average contribution are stupid? They know what they are getting.

People don't spend money if they don't think what they are buying is worth more than the money.

I think there's some room to question whether or not some offers are ethical. And by that, I just mean this kind of conversation happens all the time when it comes to things like F2P. I tend to err more on the side of "it's not my right to judge how other people spend their money" than not, but that doesn't mean that I think it's entirely unfair to question whether or not some transactions are more on the up and up than others.

Having said that, I do think there's an aspect of just seeing this as a donation with a tangible reward, and that's fine. I mean, I do hope that people understand Kickstarter's purpose here. Specifically, I hope they understand that while it is helping to fund the game, it also is being used as a tool to gauge interest and that a corporation with far more money than you or I are kicking in for it as well. To create a fictional sad sack here, I think it would be unfortunate if someone pledged 10 grand for a dinner with Yu Suzuki and depleted their life savings in the process because they just love Shenmue that much and think that the game is being completely funded by us -- the fans. I'm not sure if that person really exists, but if they do then I would say that it was unfortunate that they were duped in such a fashion.

 

[Infernostew]

Sony doesnt get this money. Yu suzuki does.

How do people still not understand this! The money from the kickstarter is going towards the game as is whatever money Sony is kicking into development. I think some people are under the deluded impression that Sony is funding the whole game and are stealing the kickstarter funds.

 

[Windom Earle]

This is whining of epic proportions and maybe worse than the Bayonetta situation. We are getting fucking Shenmue 3, but some people still want to act like whiny cunts.

 

[Paz]

Alright I'm sorry. You're right! I just feel like Sony would not have hyped this game just for it to die, I feel like they would have funded it either way.

If the kickstarter died they could have taken the "we're saving shenmue!" Route.

But again, if y'all are happy with your investment who am I to judge: I don't know all the details

I would feel fucking awful if we (the Shenmue fan base) had failed to kickstart Shenmue 3 after 14 years of wishing some way some how it would get made, and I would welcome Sony saving it with open arms if that happened. And if it didn't happen it would be a soul crushing experience.

But that didn't happen. We supported the game and now everybody wins.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Alright I'm sorry. You're right! I just feel like Sony would not have hyped this game just for it to die, I feel like they would have funded it either way.

If the kickstarter died they could have taken the "we're saving shenmue!" Route.

But again, if y'all are happy with your investment who am I to judge: I don't know all the details

Why would they fund a game that doesn't have the support to pass a Kickstarter? A big budget game that can't get a few thousand people to support it won't get made. The Kickstarter showed the market was there.

 

[Caipirinha]

Inb4 Xboners appeal to the UN for a resolution stating that Sony isn't allowed to make their customers more happy than Microsoft makes them because it's a "shady business practice". Just lol... You guys knew what kind of console you were hitching yourself to and it was not the art house Japanese titles one, quit acting so surprised, save that for the CoD DLC thread..

 

[Haunted Tank]

Next up:

Valve: Give us 200 million on Kickstarter or HL3 won't happen!

 

[Theonik]

Not really.

Spencer confirmed that Shenmue 3 was the most requested game people ask him about.

Microsoft wouldn't have touched this project with a 10ft pole

I am talking about Xbox sales. Now of course, MS wouldn't and didn't step in to either fund or support this project and they probably had as many chances to as Sony had and then some so it's a very weird discussion to have. Sony is probably not offering much more than simple support in the first place and all the KS money is going to YS-net. These posts in the thread are gross as shit.

Edit:

I wish they would add another tier so I could donate more money.

Finally you've come around! I messaged them about it this very morning and am hoping they reply but honestly they are getting hundreds of questions I bet and will have to relent.

 

[Wavebossa]

This, basically. State your intentions from the beginning.

Their intentions were to Kickstart development on Shenmue III. If that Kickstarter failed, there would be no Shemnue III. How could anyone have possibly misconstrued this?

 

[jacobeid]

The average donation is way over $30. That is why. They are exploiting the fanbase for their whale money.

Holy shit. Want to play a game of mean, median, mode?

Edit: Nevermind. Same person who posted literal nonsense yesterday. E3 is the annual update of the good ol' ignore list.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

can't believe some people actually thought Shenmue 3 was going to be made with 2 million alone......

 

[Krejlooc]

Next up:

Valve: Give us 200 million on Kickstarter or HL3 won't happen!

Yeah sure ok

 

[Audible Phonetics]

I think there's some room to question whether or not some offers are ethical. And by that, I just mean this kind of conversation happens all the time when it comes to things like F2P. I tend to err more on the side of "it's not my right to judge how other people spend their money" than not, but that doesn't mean that I think it's entirely unfair to question whether or not some transactions are more on the up and up than others.

Having said that, I do think there's an aspect of just seeing this as a donation with a tangible reward, and that's fine. I mean, I do hope that people understand Kickstarter's purpose here. Specifically, I hope they understand that while it is helping to fund the game, it also is being used as a tool to gauge interest and that a corporation with far more money than you or I are kicking in for it as well. To create a fictional sad sack here, I think it would be unfortunate if someone pledged 10 grand for a dinner with Yu Suzuki and depleted their life savings in the process because they just love Shenmue that much and think that the game is being completely funded by us -- the fans. I'm not sure if that person really exists, but if they do then I would say that it was unfortunate that they were duped in such a fashion.

I agree while that could be possible. It's much more likely the person who pledged 10k had it and did it without second thought. It's unfair to think that this was a poor soul who dropped everything he had for this game.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

Next up:

Valve: Give us 200 million on Kickstarter or HL3 won't happen!

Yep, because that's the exact same situation. Exactly the same. No difference at all. No sir.

 

[bomblord1]

How much money will this game need? It's just barely short of 3 million right now on kickstarter and Sony will be funding it on top of that?

 

[Windom Earle]

can't believe some people actually thought Shenmue 3 was going to be made with 2 million alone......

Yep, this thread is 70 pages of repeating the same shit over and over again. I swear this is the kind of stuff that takes the fun out of GAF for me.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

So what's the difference between this and Bloodstained? Didn't that launch under the same premise, that the Kickstarter was used to gauge interest and to demonstrate to money men that their game is worth investing in?

Is the issue here that Sony is doing the funding or what exactly?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

How much money will this game need? It's just barely short of 3 million right now on kickstarter and Sony will be funding it on top of that?

I won't pretend to know what the full budget is, but I will note that 3 million is not a lot of money for something like this.

 

[Kazer]

How much money will this game need? It's just barely short of 3 million right now on kickstarter and Sony will be funding it on top of that?

Lots. It's a good thing Sony is helping out.

 

[Audible Phonetics]

How much money will this game need? It's just barely short of 3 million right now on kickstarter and Sony will be funding it on top of that?

Okay lets put it in prospective. it generally costs between 30-60 Million on last gen to make a AAA game.

We are now in the next gen, and prices have increased. 2 million is such a small drop in the bucket that it isn't even funny.

 

[Hazanko]

Next up:

Valve: Give us 200 million on Kickstarter or HL3 won't happen!

This thread is making my head hurt.

 

[Callibretto]

How do people still not understand this! The money from the kickstarter is going towards the game as is whatever money Sony is kicking into development. I think some people are under the deluded impression that Sony is funding the whole game and are stealing the kickstarter funds.

Sony should just donate like 10 million to the kickstarter page. lol

 

[ch298807]

Yep, this thread is 70 pages of repeating the same shit over and over again. I swear this is the kind of stuff that takes the fun out of GAF for me.

I can't wait until we all get to hear about how terrible the graphics are.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

So what's the difference between this and Bloodstained? Didn't that launch under the same premise, that the Kickstarter was used to gauge interest and to demonstrate to money men that their game is worth investing in?

Is the issue here that Sony is doing the funding or what exactly?

The issue is that it isn't coming to some GAFers console of choice, so they're trying to create a strawman argument about the morality of capitalism.

 

[BotoxAgent]

Man Sony drops huge bombshells that people would never imagined it all happen at once, now for some reason going from the TLG thread to this Sony seems to be getting attacked from every angle. I doubt must people really where interested in these games in the first place but see this as a chance to release their negative energy.

With great news comes great salt, too, unfortunately

 

[Paz]

Next up:

Valve: Give us 200 million on Kickstarter or HL3 won't happen!

I too remember that time Half Life 1 and 2 were two of the largest financial failures in the history of video games, their publisher was crushed out of their primary role in the market, and all the talented people who worked on them were forced out of the company. Then for 14 years a vocal fan base continued to ask for the sequel with nobody in the world willing to fund or develop it.

 

[Veritigo_X]

With great news comes great salt, too, unfortunately

'Great salt' is an understatement.

 

[bomblord1]

Okay lets put it in prospective. it generally costs between 30-60 Million on last gen to make a AAA game.

We are now in the next gen, and prices have increased. 2 million is such a small drop in the bucket that it isn't even funny.

I don't mean to belittle what we've seen as it's very artistically strong but that brief teaser is not showing environments or character models that would require a AAA game budget to produce even by ps360 standards.

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

This, basically. State your intentions from the beginning.

How should it even matter? If you want the game to happen, fund, if not, don't. I don't care in the end if the game becomes a reality because Sony used Kickstarter it to gauge interest. I want Shenmue 3. Shenmue 3 happens. End of story.

 

[Audible Phonetics]

I don't mean to belittle what we've seen as it's very artistically strong but that brief teaser is not showing environments or character models that would require a AAA game budget to produce even by ps360 standards.

The original Shenmue cost $70 million to produce.

It'll cost well more then that to make the game to the scale of the others.

Also I think that was just put together to show something for the game.

 

[Windom Earle]

I can't wait until we all get to hear about how terrible the graphics are.

Yes, this game will NOT have it easy. But we Shenmue fans are used to that.

Me: "Sony is helping out. Great! Good to have confirmation, this is exactly what we were all hoping for."

Parts of GAF: "Scam, Exploit, Shady, Shadowfunding!!!!!!!!"

Disgusting.

The original Shenmue cost $70 million to produce.

wrong

 

[3rdamention]

But the conference was the most high profile place to do it, and they gave a very different impression on stage. I just think they should have said so before things got underway.

Again I have no problem with this otherwise, just think it's a learning lesson for Sony and future companies that want to launch kickstarters on stage.



"Obvious" is not the same as transparent. I try not to make assumptions because there's all sorts of times that's proven false. I figured they had their hand in it, at least some part time exclusivity, but they are significantly more involved in that I think people should know that before they go to donate to a Kickstarter. I don't think it's wrong at all, but I think they should let people know BEFORE the Kickstarter starts.

I agree with the "this is a learning lesson" part... There really hasn't been a precedent for this, now there is... Going forward, this Shenmue scenario shows that the Kickstarter assistance/interest gauge works... And the way Sony has handled this kinda shows both how you should do it, and maybe some steps you can change going forward if you're a Publisher interested in doing this in the future...

 

[crazyprac]

The thread that keeps on giving!

Shenmue 3! Like gtfo its actually being made why are we fighting?! Let's all hug in celebration!

 

[Audible Phonetics]

Yes, this game will NOT have it easy. But we Shenmue fans are used to that.

Me: "Sony is helping out. Great! Good to have confirmation, this is exactly what we were all hoping for."

Parts of GAF: "Scam, Exploit, Shady, Shadowfunding!!!!!!!!"

Disgusting.



wrong

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...ickstarter-but-the-original-cost-70m-to-make/

It's disputed whether it was 47-70 Million. Regardless the point was it is painfully obvious 2 million wasn't to make the game. Anyone who thought that is misinformed about just HOW much it costs to make a game, especially today.

 

[bomblord1]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...ickstarter-but-the-original-cost-70m-to-make/

It's disputed whether it was 47-70 Million. Regardless the point was it is painfully obvious 2 million wasn't to make the game. Anyone who thought that is misinformed about just HOW much it costs to make a game, especially today.

Knowing the cost of the original is probably the best gauge to compare it by atm.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

So what's the difference between this and Bloodstained? Didn't that launch under the same premise, that the Kickstarter was used to gauge interest and to demonstrate to money men that their game is worth investing in?

Is the issue here that Sony is doing the funding or what exactly?

I think the issue here is -- and I honestly kind of missed the specific syntax as I wasn't following the exact language being employed during the conference as I had a 3-year-old running around that I had to attend to -- is that this was presented as "this is their thing, we're just trying to get more eyes on it." And then the following day it was clarified "oh yeah, we're giving financial and marketing support as well." I might argue that one could have assumed that this would be the case employing little more than common sense, but I can understand to an extent why it might rub people the wrong way.

I think there is some concern out there that Kickstarter is meant to be more of a grass roots tool. You know, this is our chance to show publishers how wrong they've been and fund things we believe in directly. You might argue that Sony themselves was shrewdly aware of that and that's the reason why they didn't want to state then and there on stage what their intended support was.

I can see that concern. But I also don't think too heavily on it. Just from a basic, common sense level it seems pretty obvious that $2 million isn't the entire budget and if Sony is featuring this during their E3 presentation then they're involved somehow in a capacity beyond just giving them airtime. The fact that it was announced as PS4/PC should also drive that point home in my mind. Why not include Xbox One as well? I mean, I know why that version wouldn't be talked about on Sony's stage, but why not include it in the Kickstarter campaign?

 

[Windom Earle]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pledges can be cancelled/changed anytime and for a whole month !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quoting myself again because the concerned non-backers do not have knowledge on how kickstarter works. There is no "scam" and no "transparency problem".

 

[Jotaka]

Alright I'm sorry. You're right! I just feel like Sony would not have hyped this game just for it to die, I feel like they would have funded it either way.

If the kickstarter died they could have taken the "we're saving shenmue!" Route.

But again, if y'all are happy with your investment who am I to judge: I don't know all the details

If the KS failed... There wouldn't any logical reason to try save it because the fan base would not exist. Why would Sony invest tens of millions of dollars in a game none want?

 

[Laevateinn]

Sony doesnt get this money. Yu suzuki does.

Exactly. Why is this so confusing for people. If Sony was getting the money, why would the physical tier only be for PC?

 

[Audible Phonetics]

If the KS failed... There wouldn't any logical reason to try save it because the fan base would not exist. Why would Sony invest tens of millions of dollars in a game none want?

Exactly, this is simple marketing 101.

 

[Windom Earle]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...ickstarter-but-the-original-cost-70m-to-make/

It's disputed whether it was 47-70 Million. Regardless the point was it is painfully obvious 2 million wasn't to make the game. Anyone who thought that is misinformed about just HOW much it costs to make a game, especially today.

It is not clear to me if this covers Shenmue 1+2 or just 1. I think both games cost that much. And it also seems to include marketing. Anyway, we will probably never know for sure and as you said, it is besides the point.

 

[test_account]

The original Shenmue cost $70 million to produce.

It'll cost well more then that to make the game to the scale of the others.

Also I think that was just put together to show something for the game.

I would be shocked if Shenmue 3 cost anything near that, but who knows.

How many people worked on the previous Shenmue games by the way?

 

[Audible Phonetics]

Sony doesn't get money, but what they get is consoles moved. It is a win/win for them to invest.

 

[giancarlo123x]

Am I a monster for pledging 30 dollars to this game? Should I feel bad that I'm ruining gaming?

 

[Windom Earle]

Sony doesn't get money, but what they get is consoles moved. It is a win/win for them to invest.

And they are still taking a huge risk.

 

[mattp]

It is not clear to me if this covers Shenmue 1+2 or just 1. I think both games cost that much. And it also seems to include marketing. Anyway, we will probably never know for sure and as you said, it is besides the point.

it also includes making the games for saturn and then starting over on dreamcast